I'm not interested in starting a brand war here. Rather, I'm interested in some real-world experience from those of you who have owned both. Here's the situation. We've pretty well narrowed our choices down to mid-90's Foretravels or late 80's 'Birds. A BMC would be great, but probably out of our budget.
We like the 93-95 U300, with a Unicoach as a second choice. We like the mid-entry on the Unihome, as well as the higher seating position. One advantage for us is the headroom, which is several inches taller than anyone in our family. I like the disc brakes at all four corners. I've been to the factory, and I'm on Foreforums, so I have some idea about some of the issues these coaches have. On the negative side, I'm not sure that a fiberglass coach will survive much in the way of a collision, and I'm pretty sure that neither it or we would survive a rollover.
We're looking at PT40 'Birds, either standard or wide body. 'Birds are tough! I've seen pictures of 'Birds that have been hit by an airborne minivan (van and van driver didn't survive, 'Bird drove away under its own power), 'Birds that have rolled over, been righted and driven away, and other injuries that would have totaled lesser coaches. On the negative side, though, is the braking system. Drum brakes are all the way around, and I'm not sure that I want to go back there. I haven't had a car with any drum brakes in over 10 years, and it has been more than 30 years since I've had one that had all drums. Another concern is that 'Birds are heavy! There's just no way around that. Steel is heavy, and weight takes fuel to move. The Foretravels we're looking at have gross weights less than the empty weights of the 'Birds we're considering.
We're looking at the same engines in both 'Birds and Foretravels, the Detroit 6V92 or 8V92. The Unicoaches do have Cummins 4-cycle engines in them, but since they're our second choice I'm not going to consider them. The BMC also has a Cummins (same engine, I think), but again, it is a bit out of our price range. Being lighter, the Foretravels would use less fuel than the 'Birds.
We don't have any specific coaches in mind, but we've narrowed it down quite a bit, and I'd like to narrow it a bit more if possible. I monitor Randy Dupree's site http://www.buybyebluebird.com/ and Motorhomes of Texas http://motorhomesoftexas.com/ on a regular basis, so I've got a pretty good idea of what we can get with our budget. Oh yes, that budget. We're going to allow $10,000 for needed repairs/upgrades for any coach we buy. Obviously, with tires around $600 each, a PT40 that needs eight new tires is worth less than the same coach with eight new tires, and we'll figure that into the price. I'd like to pay somewhere around $30,000 for the coach, assuming that we need the full $10,000 for the repairs and upgrades. The ideal coach, of course, is the one I can get for less than $30,000 and has all new tires, batteries, and engine/transmission/generator service freshly done. It might be out there, but I'm not going to spend years waiting for it to drop into my lap.
So, the question. If you have owned BOTH of these, which would you prefer and why? I'm well aware that any coach of this age will need constant attention to keep it as trouble free as possible, and I'm prepared to give it that attention. I suspect that it will probably come down to whatever we find first, 'Bird or Foretravel, that will be the deciding factor, but if someone has some first-hand knowledge as to why one is superior to the other I'd like to hear it. I'm looking for "I'm 6' 2" and I was constantly banging my head on the a/c in my old coach," not "My wife said the toilet was too tall for her." Unless the a/c hangs down exceptionally low, most of them are about the same distance down from the ceiling. Toilets are fairly easily changed.
Edit by moderator: Activated link. Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Wednesday 17th of October 2012 10:19:38 AM
kb0zke said
01:44 AM Oct 17, 2012
I probably should have added a couple of important details. First, we are deliberately looking at coaches without slides. Second, this will be a full-time coach and we will have NO home base. Yes, we will have a legal domicile, but not a place to return to to work on the coach, trade "stuff" or otherwise take care of things.
Lucky Mike said
01:57 AM Oct 17, 2012
Depending on the year you are asking about and it will make a difference!!!!...........wonderlodge is an actual heavy duty bus converted into a coach..........(skillet face school bus chassis) and yes its survival impact is designed for maximum passenger occupancy within the shell. normally 60 children or adults combined under FTA commercial saftey standards........
fortravel early units until early mid 90s came on a truck Frame and the coach assembly was placed on top of it tin and wood early and fiberglass later......designed for its floorplan and only the safety minimums required to meet federal specs as a recreational vehicle....(simple crash test at 35 mph)
No matter how you slice it......or roll it , wonderlodge wins out bluebird has been driving kids to school everyday Safely without seatbelts and has survived wrecks with those kids in there........all they did was take the seats out and paint it something other than yellow!!!!
Technomadia said
08:01 AM Oct 17, 2012
Actually, Wanderlodge got shells from Bluebird and did the RV build from the start. They're not 'conversions' from seated buses. Similar to how companies like Marathon build out Prevosts today.
David - we've not owned either, so can't chime in on your specific ask. We did research Wanderlodge in our own bus hunt, and have great respect for them. We found the http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/forums/ during our research, and the community there is very welcome. In case you've not already introduced yourself over there, would highly recommend it. You'll probably be more likely to find some Wanderlodge owners who have more direct experience with the comparison you're looking for.
Best wishes, - Cherie
Edit by moderator: Activated link. Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Wednesday 17th of October 2012 10:22:00 AM
kb0zke said
09:51 PM Oct 17, 2012
Thanks. Yes, I'm on both WOG and Foreforums. In fact, an active, involved owner's group was one of our requirements for a full-time coach.
I'm not interested in starting a brand war here. Rather, I'm interested in some real-world experience from those of you who have owned both. Here's the situation. We've pretty well narrowed our choices down to mid-90's Foretravels or late 80's 'Birds. A BMC would be great, but probably out of our budget.
We like the 93-95 U300, with a Unicoach as a second choice. We like the mid-entry on the Unihome, as well as the higher seating position. One advantage for us is the headroom, which is several inches taller than anyone in our family. I like the disc brakes at all four corners. I've been to the factory, and I'm on Foreforums, so I have some idea about some of the issues these coaches have. On the negative side, I'm not sure that a fiberglass coach will survive much in the way of a collision, and I'm pretty sure that neither it or we would survive a rollover.
We're looking at PT40 'Birds, either standard or wide body. 'Birds are tough! I've seen pictures of 'Birds that have been hit by an airborne minivan (van and van driver didn't survive, 'Bird drove away under its own power), 'Birds that have rolled over, been righted and driven away, and other injuries that would have totaled lesser coaches. On the negative side, though, is the braking system. Drum brakes are all the way around, and I'm not sure that I want to go back there. I haven't had a car with any drum brakes in over 10 years, and it has been more than 30 years since I've had one that had all drums. Another concern is that 'Birds are heavy! There's just no way around that. Steel is heavy, and weight takes fuel to move. The Foretravels we're looking at have gross weights less than the empty weights of the 'Birds we're considering.
We're looking at the same engines in both 'Birds and Foretravels, the Detroit 6V92 or 8V92. The Unicoaches do have Cummins 4-cycle engines in them, but since they're our second choice I'm not going to consider them. The BMC also has a Cummins (same engine, I think), but again, it is a bit out of our price range. Being lighter, the Foretravels would use less fuel than the 'Birds.
We don't have any specific coaches in mind, but we've narrowed it down quite a bit, and I'd like to narrow it a bit more if possible. I monitor Randy Dupree's site http://www.buybyebluebird.com/ and Motorhomes of Texas http://motorhomesoftexas.com/ on a regular basis, so I've got a pretty good idea of what we can get with our budget. Oh yes, that budget. We're going to allow $10,000 for needed repairs/upgrades for any coach we buy. Obviously, with tires around $600 each, a PT40 that needs eight new tires is worth less than the same coach with eight new tires, and we'll figure that into the price. I'd like to pay somewhere around $30,000 for the coach, assuming that we need the full $10,000 for the repairs and upgrades. The ideal coach, of course, is the one I can get for less than $30,000 and has all new tires, batteries, and engine/transmission/generator service freshly done. It might be out there, but I'm not going to spend years waiting for it to drop into my lap.
So, the question. If you have owned BOTH of these, which would you prefer and why? I'm well aware that any coach of this age will need constant attention to keep it as trouble free as possible, and I'm prepared to give it that attention. I suspect that it will probably come down to whatever we find first, 'Bird or Foretravel, that will be the deciding factor, but if someone has some first-hand knowledge as to why one is superior to the other I'd like to hear it. I'm looking for "I'm 6' 2" and I was constantly banging my head on the a/c in my old coach," not "My wife said the toilet was too tall for her." Unless the a/c hangs down exceptionally low, most of them are about the same distance down from the ceiling. Toilets are fairly easily changed.
Edit by moderator: Activated link. Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Wednesday 17th of October 2012 10:19:38 AM
fortravel early units until early mid 90s came on a truck Frame and the coach assembly was placed on top of it tin and wood early and fiberglass later......designed for its floorplan and only the safety minimums required to meet federal specs as a recreational vehicle....(simple crash test at 35 mph)
No matter how you slice it......or roll it , wonderlodge wins out bluebird has been driving kids to school everyday Safely without seatbelts and has survived wrecks with those kids in there........all they did was take the seats out and paint it something other than yellow!!!!
Actually, Wanderlodge got shells from Bluebird and did the RV build from the start. They're not 'conversions' from seated buses. Similar to how companies like Marathon build out Prevosts today.
David - we've not owned either, so can't chime in on your specific ask. We did research Wanderlodge in our own bus hunt, and have great respect for them. We found the http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/forums/ during our research, and the community there is very welcome. In case you've not already introduced yourself over there, would highly recommend it. You'll probably be more likely to find some Wanderlodge owners who have more direct experience with the comparison you're looking for.
Best wishes,
- Cherie
Edit by moderator: Activated link. Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Wednesday 17th of October 2012 10:22:00 AM