I'm also still in the homework stage and I am exploring other manufactuers besides these. The question is that both of these brands are manufacturerd by Thor, and within each brand, there are several other brands. I really can't seem to tell the difference between, i.e. the luxury or mid range Heartlands versus the luxury or mid range Keystones, other than some slight floor plan differences.
Does anyone else know, off the cuff, what brand is better for full timing?
Thanks,
Workinrvers said
10:22 PM Oct 8, 2012
Keystone: the "luxury" unit is the Big Sky and the higher end units are the Montana line.
Heartland: the "luxury" unit is the Landmark and the higher end units are the Big Horn line.
We have fulltimed in a Montana since 2009 and have been pleased with it. We have had a few problems but expect that with any RV, not condoning having problems just facing the fact that there are NO trouble free RV's coming out of the factories IMHO.
Both the Keystone and Heartland lines are popular units that offer quite a few different floorplans. Good luck in your search.
Phil
ps: Thor owns a bunch of the RV companies including Airstream, Keystone, Heartland et al.
cherylbrv said
10:46 PM Oct 8, 2012
Workinrvers wrote:ps: Thor owns a bunch of the RV companies including Airstream, Keystone, Heartland et al.
I guess this is the part hat confuses me -- are each of Thor's companies competing against each other, or do they indeed offer something completely different, such as the way the RV is built?
kb0zke said
12:42 AM Oct 9, 2012
Thor generally buys a company that is profitable and keeps it going pretty much as it was. If there is too much competition somewhere, or one company is weak in an area, they might drop that part of the company's line. For example, Airstream had a motor home line, but they didn't sell many, so Thor simply had them drop them and concentrate on their trailers.
I can't speak to any of the other brands, but I've toured both the Airstream and Heartland factories, and they seem to do a pretty good job of producing decent coaches. I own a Heartland product, and I've not had any real problems with it, even though it is the cheapest one in their lineup. The Heartland factory is really good about taking care of problems, but as usual, your first problem-solver is the dealer. I'd be more concerned about the dealer's reputation than about the manufacturer.
Terry and Jo said
02:02 AM Oct 9, 2012
I am going to have to differ a little bit from David's thoughts. If one is buying an RV with the intent to still "live" in the vicinity of that dealer, then yes, the dealer's reputation is very important. However, it has been known that if one is traveling and goes to a dealer of one's RV brand elsewhere, those other dealers might not be so quick to work on one's RV for them.
I've seen a number of instances where the "visited" dealer would do little for anyone who didn't buy from them. When in the circumstance of traveling a lot, the manufacturer is also very important. For instance, I know from reading other forums, that are related to our brand of RV, that the factory is very good about shipping needed parts to a customer when they are needed. In some instances, the factory has "expedited" shipping.
If one is where they can, it is advisable to try to go to the factory for each of the brands that piques one's interest. More than once, I've read where folks said the factory visit to see the production and a coach in construction, plus speaking to company "officials," made a world of difference in making their choice. That is also a good opportunity to possibly see the frames, axles, and suspension for those brands, and since those make up the "foundation" of the RV, that can be important.
Good luck with your research and planning.
Terry
MandV said
04:08 AM Oct 9, 2012
The third full-time capable brand in the Heartland line is the Big Country, just for completeness.
jayc said
09:10 PM Oct 9, 2012
Heartland will authorize another dealer to do warranty work with prior approval. Heartland also offers a 2 year bumper to bumper warranty with 5 year frame warranty on the frame of the Landmark line. A Yeti cold weather package is also available.
cherylbrv said
09:54 PM Oct 9, 2012
What I'm taking from here is that in choosing either of these Thor brands, Heartland is a better choice over Keystone. Am I reading this right?
jayc said
10:04 PM Oct 9, 2012
IMHO it is. Heartland is known for outstanding customer service.
kb0zke said
11:06 PM Oct 9, 2012
Cheryl, I'd agree that Heartland is the better brand.
Terry raises a good point. Yes, your dealer is your first point of contact, but if you're out on the road, that isn't always a real possibility. In that case, a call to Heartland's customer service number will usually result in appropriate help. Dealers do want to take care of their own customers first, but the service department is there to make money, and service is service. Unfortunately, warranty service is often paid at a lower rate than what other customers are paying, so sometimes warranty work gets pushed back in favor of something more profitable. Heartland tends to frown on that, though.
Every other year Heartland has a "Coming Home" rally in Goshen, and they have factory service techs there who will take care of minor issues. If your coach is under warranty obviously there is no cost. Safety issues are taken care of as quickly as they can, ahead of other work, whether it is warranty or not. This past year the rally was out in Wyoming, and they sent a factory service trailer out there, too.
cherylbrv said
12:01 AM Oct 10, 2012
Thank you to everyone for the great (and clarifying) replies! If I choose a Thor company, Heartland it is. I'm also strongly considering DRV and New Horizons. Guess it will boil down to how much money is left over from the sale of the house, which has to go for the RV and towing vehicle (not to mention closing costs and a little nest egg to live off of for at least a year). Ha ha! I'll be lucky to buy a tent!
Well, it isn't called Rv-DREAMS for nothing! We shall see. It IS possible.
Delaine and Lindy said
10:55 PM Oct 10, 2012
I would recommend going to the Elkhart/Goshen area, and look first hand at how each unit is built. I have owned Keystone, Heartland and DRV Mobile Suites. The best built is the DRV units, with 3 1/4" walls, insulation is much better for full timing. But you will have to have a 1 Ton to handle the 38 footers and above, and the 15" frame is the heaviest in the industry. However, I highly recommend a 1 ton with any 5th wheel over 34', just my opinion thru experience in owning several different size Trucks.. It will depend on your needs and wants, but for full timing the DRV units are designed for full timing.... Again they are very heavy, because of materials used in the build process. For the type money you are spending the trip to Elkhart/Goshen area will be money well spent. The WOW factor is there in most 5th wheels. But look behind the walls, looking behind some walls is very scary, rats nest behind many walls. Some 5th wheels have sliding basement walls, many you will have to remove wood type screws, makes you wonder behind those walls. Good Luck with your choice. Happy Trails....
Terry and Jo said
12:54 AM Oct 11, 2012
cherylbrv wrote:
Thank you to everyone for the great (and clarifying) replies! If I choose a Thor company, Heartland it is. I'm also strongly considering DRV and New Horizons. Guess it will boil down to how much money is left over from the sale of the house, which has to go for the RV and towing vehicle (not to mention closing costs and a little nest egg to live off of for at least a year). Ha ha! I'll be lucky to buy a tent!
Well, it isn't called Rv-DREAMS for nothing! We shall see. It IS possible.
I've heard good reviews of both Rolling Retreats and RV's for Less, and Jo and I personally know the folks at Rolling Retreats.
In all cases, do not go by published prices on the websites.
Terry
kb0zke said
11:27 PM Oct 12, 2012
We toured the factories of Airstream, DRV, and Heartland a couple of years ago. If we were to go with a 5'er, it would be a DRV. We bought our mpg because we thought we would be trading up to a Big Horn, but after seeing the construction, the DRV has Heartland beat all to pieces. Of course, a DRV is heavier and more expensive than even a Landmark, Heartland's top of the line coach.
This isn't to take away from Heartland. They make a great product, but as far as I'm concerned, a DRV is above the Heartland line. I'd say a Buick-Mercedes comparison would be similar.
Howard said
01:12 AM Oct 13, 2012
Cheryl,
Yes, both Keystone & Heartland are owned by Thor. And, yes, they both retain independence with different factories and processes. So, the fact they are both owned by Thor certainly doesn't mean they are necessarily similar.
Both companies are "production" companies building lots of units. Keystone has been around a lot longer and has had the number one selling fifth wheel for several years running. Heartland is a relatively new company and currently builds their high end units on the same line as their mid range units, but they are hoping to separate that out when it makes sense financially.
Both companies make quality units and use many of the same component suppliers. We know owners of both that have great things to say and owners of both that have had lots of problems (of course we can say that about almost every manufacturer).
As a Keystone owner that has been pretty happy, the one big difference I see is that Heartland appears to be far more involved with their customers than Keystone. I've been really impressed with Heartland's commitment to their customers, and they are investing heavily in the Heartland Owners Club while many other manufacturers have abandoned their owners clubs. Whenever we attempt to get repairs or service at the Keystone factory, we are pushed off to dealers, and we gave up contacting the factory a long time ago.
If we were buying again in the Heartland/Keystone price range, it would be a tough decision as I see pros and cons in the construction of both. But I would look at Heartland harder due to what I consider a more forward-looking approach in the construction process evolution and in customer care.
Just my two cents.
kb0zke said
01:33 AM Oct 14, 2012
Howard makes a good point about the Heartland Owner's Club. Jim Beletti works full-time for the club, traveling around the country in a (fairly) new Landmark. He attends as many rallies as he can and coordinates the big one each summer. He's not the guy to talk to about getting something fixed on your coach, but he does have the ear of the top management, and if he hears the same comments repeatedly he passes them on to the big guys.
RoadWorker said
08:04 AM Oct 19, 2012
I used to sell Keystone products and I will tell you what I know. Hope it helps.
Keystone products, Everest, Challenger, Big Sky and Montana are all built on the same framework with most of the differences being the interior counter tops, carpeting, furniture, etc. For the money, about $10,000 less, the Challenger is as good as the Everest and the Montana is as good as the Big Sky. When Keystone products were delivered to the lot there is a walk through to ensure that they made the trip in good condition. With these products there was never an issue, but with Heartland products there was always an issue...it could be that a drawer didn't roll in and out right or a plug in was put in crooked, there was a huge bubble in the rubber roof, or the lights were just thrown in and not even assembled. They tried to get by on the cheap.
To me, if they didn't care enough to deliver it to their dealer complete and working well, what about the the things we couldn't see? Heartland employees or management, just didn't seem to care. They wanted to crank them out and send them off. The others on this list I would recommend highly.
crmfghtr said
03:51 AM Oct 24, 2012
Like many have said there are things about each coach that makes each brand unique. I like you looked at many 5'vers before I made the descision to purchase. One of the most important things besides your likes and dislikes is the service you will receive from the manufacturer. Notice I didn't say dealer because you may experience a problem 5 states from your home base, and it is important that the manufacturer will stand behind the warranty they give. I like many here take what a salesman tells me with a grain of salt because after all he is only concerned with his bottom line. They will tell you anything to sell you a rig. It is good that you are talking to owners who have experienced dealerships, warranties, and the like so they have no reason to mislead you. We personally choose the Heartland Landmark due to many factors. One of the main factors was are they going to stand by their rig. I can honestly say so far i'm very pleased with Heartland.
I'm also still in the homework stage and I am exploring other manufactuers besides these. The question is that both of these brands are manufacturerd by Thor, and within each brand, there are several other brands. I really can't seem to tell the difference between, i.e. the luxury or mid range Heartlands versus the luxury or mid range Keystones, other than some slight floor plan differences.
Does anyone else know, off the cuff, what brand is better for full timing?
Thanks,
Keystone: the "luxury" unit is the Big Sky and the higher end units are the Montana line.
Heartland: the "luxury" unit is the Landmark and the higher end units are the Big Horn line.
We have fulltimed in a Montana since 2009 and have been pleased with it. We have had a few problems but expect that with any RV, not condoning having problems just facing the fact that there are NO trouble free RV's coming out of the factories IMHO.
Both the Keystone and Heartland lines are popular units that offer quite a few different floorplans. Good luck in your search.
Phil
ps: Thor owns a bunch of the RV companies including Airstream, Keystone, Heartland et al.
I guess this is the part hat confuses me -- are each of Thor's companies competing against each other, or do they indeed offer something completely different, such as the way the RV is built?
I can't speak to any of the other brands, but I've toured both the Airstream and Heartland factories, and they seem to do a pretty good job of producing decent coaches. I own a Heartland product, and I've not had any real problems with it, even though it is the cheapest one in their lineup. The Heartland factory is really good about taking care of problems, but as usual, your first problem-solver is the dealer. I'd be more concerned about the dealer's reputation than about the manufacturer.
I am going to have to differ a little bit from David's thoughts. If one is buying an RV with the intent to still "live" in the vicinity of that dealer, then yes, the dealer's reputation is very important. However, it has been known that if one is traveling and goes to a dealer of one's RV brand elsewhere, those other dealers might not be so quick to work on one's RV for them.
I've seen a number of instances where the "visited" dealer would do little for anyone who didn't buy from them. When in the circumstance of traveling a lot, the manufacturer is also very important. For instance, I know from reading other forums, that are related to our brand of RV, that the factory is very good about shipping needed parts to a customer when they are needed. In some instances, the factory has "expedited" shipping.
If one is where they can, it is advisable to try to go to the factory for each of the brands that piques one's interest. More than once, I've read where folks said the factory visit to see the production and a coach in construction, plus speaking to company "officials," made a world of difference in making their choice. That is also a good opportunity to possibly see the frames, axles, and suspension for those brands, and since those make up the "foundation" of the RV, that can be important.
Good luck with your research and planning.
Terry
What I'm taking from here is that in choosing either of these Thor brands, Heartland is a better choice over Keystone. Am I reading this right?
Terry raises a good point. Yes, your dealer is your first point of contact, but if you're out on the road, that isn't always a real possibility. In that case, a call to Heartland's customer service number will usually result in appropriate help. Dealers do want to take care of their own customers first, but the service department is there to make money, and service is service. Unfortunately, warranty service is often paid at a lower rate than what other customers are paying, so sometimes warranty work gets pushed back in favor of something more profitable. Heartland tends to frown on that, though.
Every other year Heartland has a "Coming Home" rally in Goshen, and they have factory service techs there who will take care of minor issues. If your coach is under warranty obviously there is no cost. Safety issues are taken care of as quickly as they can, ahead of other work, whether it is warranty or not. This past year the rally was out in Wyoming, and they sent a factory service trailer out there, too.
Thank you to everyone for the great (and clarifying) replies! If I choose a Thor company, Heartland it is. I'm also strongly considering DRV and New Horizons. Guess it will boil down to how much money is left over from the sale of the house, which has to go for the RV and towing vehicle (not to mention closing costs and a little nest egg to live off of for at least a year). Ha ha! I'll be lucky to buy a tent!
Well, it isn't called Rv-DREAMS for nothing! We shall see. It IS possible.
Cheryl,
If you are considering used, Jack Mayer has a New Horizons for sale in the Classifieds here at RV Dreams. Also, in line with the DRV models, Rolling Retreats deals with both new and used DRV models. There is a dealer for DRV closer to you called RV's for Less.
I've heard good reviews of both Rolling Retreats and RV's for Less, and Jo and I personally know the folks at Rolling Retreats.
In all cases, do not go by published prices on the websites.
Terry
This isn't to take away from Heartland. They make a great product, but as far as I'm concerned, a DRV is above the Heartland line. I'd say a Buick-Mercedes comparison would be similar.
Cheryl,
Yes, both Keystone & Heartland are owned by Thor. And, yes, they both retain independence with different factories and processes. So, the fact they are both owned by Thor certainly doesn't mean they are necessarily similar.
Both companies are "production" companies building lots of units. Keystone has been around a lot longer and has had the number one selling fifth wheel for several years running. Heartland is a relatively new company and currently builds their high end units on the same line as their mid range units, but they are hoping to separate that out when it makes sense financially.
Both companies make quality units and use many of the same component suppliers. We know owners of both that have great things to say and owners of both that have had lots of problems (of course we can say that about almost every manufacturer).
As a Keystone owner that has been pretty happy, the one big difference I see is that Heartland appears to be far more involved with their customers than Keystone. I've been really impressed with Heartland's commitment to their customers, and they are investing heavily in the Heartland Owners Club while many other manufacturers have abandoned their owners clubs. Whenever we attempt to get repairs or service at the Keystone factory, we are pushed off to dealers, and we gave up contacting the factory a long time ago.
If we were buying again in the Heartland/Keystone price range, it would be a tough decision as I see pros and cons in the construction of both. But I would look at Heartland harder due to what I consider a more forward-looking approach in the construction process evolution and in customer care.
Just my two cents.
Keystone products, Everest, Challenger, Big Sky and Montana are all built on the same framework with most of the differences being the interior counter tops, carpeting, furniture, etc. For the money, about $10,000 less, the Challenger is as good as the Everest and the Montana is as good as the Big Sky. When Keystone products were delivered to the lot there is a walk through to ensure that they made the trip in good condition. With these products there was never an issue, but with Heartland products there was always an issue...it could be that a drawer didn't roll in and out right or a plug in was put in crooked, there was a huge bubble in the rubber roof, or the lights were just thrown in and not even assembled. They tried to get by on the cheap.
To me, if they didn't care enough to deliver it to their dealer complete and working well, what about the the things we couldn't see? Heartland employees or management, just didn't seem to care. They wanted to crank them out and send them off. The others on this list I would recommend highly.
Good Luck, and welcome to the RV life.