My wife and I are starting our search for a 5th Wheel, we are first timers and want to do all the home work we can to get stated right. You all are a great group and the best help ever. Thanks Evan
Terry and Jo said
03:31 AM Sep 28, 2012
The answers you get will be subjective as you've not given any kind of criteria by which to judge. For instance, a weight or price factor may be important to you. Weight might be a factor if you already have a truck and don't necessarily want to trade for something larger in order to tow the "better" fifth wheels. Price is an obvious factor. I will approach the answer with consideration of new units instead of used.
Probably the best is one that is custom built and is the most expensive and heaviest in weight. That would be the New Horizons. There are a couple of other custom built fifth wheel builders, but they aren't as well known, and I don't remember what their names are. For some reason, I think one is called Space Craft, or something like that.
Next in line would probably be the models in the DRV Suites line. Those, in order of price and amenities, would be Elite Suites at the top, Mobile Suites at midrange, and their newest, but less expensive is the Tradition. Also just announced in the Mobile Suites line is a series of about 4 floorplans with more amenities than the standard Mobile Suites. The Estate is one equipped with residential refrigerators, dishwasher, garbage disposal, etc. While the DRV Suites aren't "custom" made, the company is one that is easy to work with to better customize one's RV.
Following those brands/models come a whole raft of brands. Montana, Open Range, Cedar Creek, and a number of others come in less expensive and with a bit less in the price. I would guess that the majority of the full-timers have chosen their units from such brands.
Another thing to consider, especially if you plan to spend time in cold climates, is insulation. The DRV Suites have the thickest of walls at 3 1/4 inches and equivalent insurance. Most others have 2 inch walls, many using foam pad insulation instead of fiberglass. A good thing is to try to detemine what the "R" factors are for the roof, floor, and walls of the different brands.
Also, considering that a full-timer will spend a lot of time in their unit, probably the most important factor would be what is basically the very foundation of one's choice. That foundation is made up of the frame, suspension, axles, and wheels and tires. This will take a bit more research to choose the best. While the Elite Suites and Mobile Suites in the DRV Suites line have a "triple-box" 15 inch frame, a number of others are still very good with 12 inch I-beam frames. Be cautious of what the manufacturers list as their frame size. Sadly, some make it difficult to find out the size. Others have 2 sizes in their frame, such as Redwood, which has a 12 inch "main" frame but a 10 inch "drop" frame. I suspect he "drop" frame is that part of the frame where the majority of the coach is attached, especially the heavy kitchen area.
In addition to insulation, the heating systems are important to consider as well. Many will allow one to get a furnace in the 42,000 btu size range for the full coach. Others will allow one to order a unit with two 30,000 btu furnaces working in two different areas of the coach. (Our Mobile Suites has the two 30,000 btu furnaces and is something we really like.) Air conditioning is usually made up of roof mounted units, most with two. Some can get their a/c units as two 15,000 btu units, one 15,000 and one 13,500, and some I've seen even had three a/c units. Also, some of those a/c units can be equipped with heat pumps, which work well down to about 38 to 40 degrees before needing to change to furnaces.
If you've not got a truck already, it is usually advisable to choose one's fifth wheel before buying the truck. That way, one can choose a truck capable of towing what the fifth wheel weighs.
Good luck with your research and planning.
Terry
Jack Mayer said
04:14 PM Sep 28, 2012
If you want some reading on a custom New Horizons, take a look at my website here.
"Best" is somewhat subjective - it will depend on your needs. What is "best" for one, would not be for another. But take a look at the New Horizons customizations and quality. Even if that is not what you are looking for, it will give you a basis of comparison. And feel free to contact me with any questions. My email is on my website, or you can ask here....
I ditto the Excel. Looked at Mobile Suites at the rally and I honestly think Excel is a more solid unit, even tough the Mobile Suites are nice and I'm sure a New Horizon would be great if you can afford it.
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Friday 28th of September 2012 06:38:44 PM
Alie and Jims Carrilite said
10:23 PM Sep 28, 2012
Excel makes a nice unit too.
kb0zke said
01:11 AM Sep 29, 2012
Terry, you got the name right. Spacecraft is made in Concordia, MO. They cater more to special needs people such as carnival or construction workers, so nearly everything is a one-off.
elames1, my suggestion would be for you to first start with a "mission profile" in which you will decide what you want to do, where you are going, and how long you will be staying. Your thread title says full-timing, so let's start with that. Are you going to be moving frequently, or are you going to stay put for months at a time? Are you going to be doing a lot of driving around, sight-seeing, shopping, etc., or are you going to pretty much stay at the campground? Do you have any physical limitations to deal with? I'm thinking here of all of the steps a large 5'er has (3-5 from outside to inside, then three more up to the bath/bedroom level), or taller/shorter than average? Will you be boondocking, or will you always have full hookups?
As you are working through that you can start going to shows and dealers, looking at floorplans. There really are only so many ways the space inside a coach can be divided up. It won't take you long to figure out what plans will work for you and what ones won't. You can check the various threads here and on other forums to find the brands that are consistently listed as the highest quality, and when you start your buying search you can focus on those brands.
Also establish a budget. Since you are new, I'd strongly suggest that you buy a used coach as your first one. You will NOT get it right the first time, and trading in a nearly new coach on another one is going to be an expensive lesson. Since 5'ers are somewhat cheaper than diesel pusher motor homes, you will probably be buying a newer 5'er than if you were looking at a DP. Be sure to keep several thousand dollars back for repairs and upgrades that the coach will need to suit you. Tires and batteries are the big ones here. Don't go by how much tread is on the tire. Go by the DOT date code on the sidewall. Any tire over 7 years old needs to be replaced, even if the tread looks brand new. More than one person has lost a coach on the way home because the old tires couldn't make it.
elames1 said
01:30 AM Sep 29, 2012
Thank you so much, everytime i ask a guestion I learn a lot. All of you are so kind. I am looking forward to seeing you on the road. Evan
Terry and Jo said
02:05 AM Sep 29, 2012
I went to look at the Excel, and it raises some questions for me, as I've not heard one of the phrases before. Their brochure lists their Limited model as having a "drop-Z" and "box" frame. First of all, does anyone know what size of frame it is? Second, what is a "drop-Z" frame? I've got an idea of what a box frame is because DRV's have triple-box frames on their Elites and Mobile Suites.
While it wouldn't make any difference if one was "following the sun," but the Excel does have quite a bit less of an "R" rating on their insulation. We wanted the better in our Mobile Suites, but we live in Oklahoma and will for a while yet, so we wanted the benefit of more insulation for both cold and heat.
I guess I need to see if I can find a dealer around here somewhere and check them out.
Terry
53 Merc said
01:28 PM Sep 29, 2012
Let me simplify this as far as possible. The best RV for full-timing is the one you have (or get)! All the techie things being mentioned might be good, it all boils down to getting out there.
cdat said
10:47 PM Sep 29, 2012
Spacecraft makes a great 5th wheel and has the standard group of floor plans just like other Mfgs. They will do just about any customizing that you want, so, very similar to New Horizons in that respect. My opinion is that New Horizons and Spacecraft are the two best MFG's with DRV coming in just below these two. As far as which ones are the best, depends on what you want, if you're looking for a strong frame, well built walls, dependable r factors and a quality roof, then the MFG matters. I would take a long look at Jack's website to do my initial research as he has done most of the research for you, then go to the MFG"s websites. Remember, buying something that is meant to be used full time for 10 years, while more costly up front will save you money in the long run.
IMHO JT
wmalefyt said
03:51 AM Sep 30, 2012
NuWa (nuwa.com) makes the HitchHiker line of 5th wheels, unfortunately it looks like they will be ending production soon due to slow sales. I have not owned one, but have followed the Nuwa owner's forum for several years and it is evident that they build a quality product designed for fulltime use. NuWa pioneered the 5th wheel concept and I believe they came out with the first slideouts. If you're in the market for a new one, there is still time to place a factory order or see what is available on their sales lot by going to their website. You can order direct from the factory.
FastEagle said
09:21 AM Sep 30, 2012
wmalefyt wrote:
NuWa (nuwa.com) makes the HitchHiker line of 5th wheels, unfortunately it looks like they will be ending production soon due to slow sales. I have not owned one, but have followed the Nuwa owner's forum for several years and it is evident that they build a quality product designed for fulltime use. NuWa pioneered the 5th wheel concept and I believe they came out with the first slideouts. If you're in the market for a new one, there is still time to place a factory order or see what is available on their sales lot by going to their website. You can order direct from the factory.
From the desk of the NuWa CEO:
FastEagle
Extending time to order a new HitchHker to Oct 1st
The number of people wanting to order a new HitchHiker since the announcement of production termination is greater than I expected. We have several couples out there still attempting to visit the factory or decide specific equipment needs for their new HitchHIker. I'm traveling for the next week and am not at the factory to face to face assist customers, and some of sales staff have been to the Kansas State Fair manning our display. So I feel that giving more time to people to order is the right thing to do, while we continue to monitor the market and make decisions at NuWa. So for those of you beginning to panic about ordering a unit, take a deep breath. As long as you understand that orders now placed will most likely not complete until after the first of the year, we will accept your order through October 1st. Beyond that date I will not speculate, and don't want people to start getting their hopes too high, as I'm not sure that conditions have or will change enough to warrant a change of my decision. I am pursuing a thought process of providing expanded service for 5th wheel owners of all brands at NuWa, as I feel we have the facility, skills and reputation to be a one stop service shop for the hundreds or thousands of 5th wheels owners out there, who might be frustrated with their trailer, dealer or manufacturer. We know how to fix suspensions, glide rooms and all aspects of reseal of an older trailer. Whereas in the past we viewed service as a non profit support need for our customers, I now realize all of this experience also makes us a natural to seek and expand the business of repair and add on equipment for 5th wheel trailers. We'll see how this discussion goes with staff.
Michael S. Mitchell, CEO, NuWa Industries
janieD said
04:39 PM Sep 30, 2012
Terry, I know you think Mobile Suites are the best but it is ok for others to have a different opinion. I respect yours so I hope you respect mine. I can't explain the frame but myDH who researched all of that when we bought it felt it was a real strength to the unit. They are rated to -10 degrees and we have found it warm and cozy in the winter and cool in the summer.
elames1: There are a whole group of good FT coaches out there and it is good to have options, hope you gets a chance to go through many units before the one they find that is right for you. We had about 4 on our short list before we decided, if you can I hope you get a chance to visit a couple of the factories too. Looking can be overwhelming at times but also fun. Good luck on your search.
Terry and Jo said
08:02 PM Sep 30, 2012
janieD wrote:
Terry, I know you think Mobile Suites are the best but it is ok for others to have a different opinion. I respect yours so I hope you respect mine. I can't explain the frame but myDH who researched all of that when we bought it felt it was a real strength to the unit. They are rated to -10 degrees and we have found it warm and cozy in the winter and cool in the summer.
Perhaps you misunderstood my meaning. While the Mobile Suites are good, they aren't the "best," and I've never said that they were. I've also stated that if someone is not in a position of living where the climate is cold, the heavier insulation isn't necessary. I've also stated in the past that everyone does have differing ideas and needs. However, when one specifies that they are looking for the best brand(s) of 5th wheels for "fulltiming" (see the title of this thread) I tend to caution them to look for the best quality that they can afford.
Sadly, I've seen a number of folks on the three different RV forums that I participate on buy something without taking the time to really research as many options as possible. A good number have purchased something within just a few weeks or months. We took about 2 years in researching before we finally decided on what we would buy. What is also noticable to me as one who has been on RV Dreams forums for some time is that a lot of folks who have come here and asked questions no longer participate. I have to wonder if they are really happy with their choices, or are they disappointed with what they've gotten into and given up the whole lifestyle.
I am sorry if you feel that I've not respected your choices.
Terry
Terry and Jo said
08:05 PM Sep 30, 2012
FastEagle wrote:
wmalefyt wrote:
NuWa (nuwa.com) makes the HitchHiker line of 5th wheels, unfortunately it looks like they will be ending production soon due to slow sales. I have not owned one, but have followed the Nuwa owner's forum for several years and it is evident that they build a quality product designed for fulltime use. NuWa pioneered the 5th wheel concept and I believe they came out with the first slideouts. If you're in the market for a new one, there is still time to place a factory order or see what is available on their sales lot by going to their website. You can order direct from the factory.
From the desk of the NuWa CEO:
FastEagle
Extending time to order a new HitchHker to Oct 1st
The number of people wanting to order a new HitchHiker since the announcement of production termination is greater than I expected. We have several couples out there still attempting to visit the factory or decide specific equipment needs for their new HitchHIker. I'm traveling for the next week and am not at the factory to face to face assist customers, and some of sales staff have been to the Kansas State Fair manning our display. So I feel that giving more time to people to order is the right thing to do, while we continue to monitor the market and make decisions at NuWa. So for those of you beginning to panic about ordering a unit, take a deep breath. As long as you understand that orders now placed will most likely not complete until after the first of the year, we will accept your order through October 1st. Beyond that date I will not speculate, and don't want people to start getting their hopes too high, as I'm not sure that conditions have or will change enough to warrant a change of my decision. I am pursuing a thought process of providing expanded service for 5th wheel owners of all brands at NuWa, as I feel we have the facility, skills and reputation to be a one stop service shop for the hundreds or thousands of 5th wheels owners out there, who might be frustrated with their trailer, dealer or manufacturer. We know how to fix suspensions, glide rooms and all aspects of reseal of an older trailer. Whereas in the past we viewed service as a non profit support need for our customers, I now realize all of this experience also makes us a natural to seek and expand the business of repair and add on equipment for 5th wheel trailers. We'll see how this discussion goes with staff.
Michael S. Mitchell, CEO, NuWa Industries
If this is based on this year, tomorrow is October 1, thus it is unlikely that anyone just starting to look is going to have time to place an order.
Terry
wmalefyt said
02:50 AM Oct 3, 2012
Terry and Jo wrote:
FastEagle wrote:
wmalefyt wrote:
NuWa (nuwa.com) makes the HitchHiker line of 5th wheels, unfortunately it looks like they will be ending production soon due to slow sales. I have not owned one, but have followed the Nuwa owner's forum for several years and it is evident that they build a quality product designed for fulltime use. NuWa pioneered the 5th wheel concept and I believe they came out with the first slideouts. If you're in the market for a new one, there is still time to place a factory order or see what is available on their sales lot by going to their website. You can order direct from the factory.
From the desk of the NuWa CEO:
FastEagle
Extending time to order a new HitchHker to Oct 1st
The number of people wanting to order a new HitchHiker since the announcement of production termination is greater than I expected. We have several couples out there still attempting to visit the factory or decide specific equipment needs for their new HitchHIker. I'm traveling for the next week and am not at the factory to face to face assist customers, and some of sales staff have been to the Kansas State Fair manning our display. So I feel that giving more time to people to order is the right thing to do, while we continue to monitor the market and make decisions at NuWa. So for those of you beginning to panic about ordering a unit, take a deep breath. As long as you understand that orders now placed will most likely not complete until after the first of the year, we will accept your order through October 1st. Beyond that date I will not speculate, and don't want people to start getting their hopes too high, as I'm not sure that conditions have or will change enough to warrant a change of my decision. I am pursuing a thought process of providing expanded service for 5th wheel owners of all brands at NuWa, as I feel we have the facility, skills and reputation to be a one stop service shop for the hundreds or thousands of 5th wheels owners out there, who might be frustrated with their trailer, dealer or manufacturer. We know how to fix suspensions, glide rooms and all aspects of reseal of an older trailer. Whereas in the past we viewed service as a non profit support need for our customers, I now realize all of this experience also makes us a natural to seek and expand the business of repair and add on equipment for 5th wheel trailers. We'll see how this discussion goes with staff.
Michael S. Mitchell, CEO, NuWa Industries
If this is based on this year, tomorrow is October 1, thus it is unlikely that anyone just starting to look is going to have time to place an order.
Terry
NuWa has many new and used models in stock at their Chanute, KS plant where you can buy factory direct. I would not hesitate buying a used one that has been properly maintained. It looks like they will keep the factory open for sales and service even though they will no longer be building new ones.
Bill
-- Edited by wmalefyt on Wednesday 3rd of October 2012 02:52:07 AM
rvingft said
11:56 PM Oct 11, 2012
I really hope Mr. Mitchell decides to continue on as a refurbisher of HI quality fifth wheels ... we have been to their factory and have seen the quality of their work. Nu Wa RVs are rated well by RV.org and most NUWa owners we have talked to are VERY pleased with their units.
NuWa is one of the few RV manufacturers we are considering as a full-time unit that we can afford and will be comfortable in.
R12 said
07:43 AM Nov 1, 2012
I have recently visited the DRV plant in Howe, IN and the Excel plant in Smith Center, KS. The DRV MS and ES use a triple stacked box frame utilizing two 2x6 and one 2x3 to make a 15" frame. One of the 2x6 has 1/4" thick side walls and the other two tubes have 11 gauge side walls (about 1/8") and they are willing to make the three tubes from 1/4" if desired, but for quite a bit more money. The frames are manufactured by Lippert to DRV specs. DRV doesn't use fiber glass for insulation but a high density wool is used giving the MS and ES a high R rating of R-16 sidewalls, R-25 roof, R-29 floor. Very high in the industry especially using the 3 1/4" side walls.
Excel uses a 2x10" box frame with the side walls being 1/4" thick. The frames are manufactured by Excel in the same building the rest of the unit is made and assembled. Excel does do one thing I hadn't seen before. The frame rails are crowned, according to the rep, similar to wood used in construction. If you've ever built using wood you will remember that you always sight down the length of the wood and put the crown of the wood facing upwards. This allows the wood to straighten when a load is applied. Excel runs a bead of weld on the top of the frame section directly over the suspension. They claim that this "bends" the frame slightly upward to give it a crown that is small but useful. I can't confirm that this works but I did see the bead of weld so I know it is done.
The Drop Z frame that Excel uses is shown below. The basement area is lower than the rest of the main frame giving them more storage area in the basement.
Excel uses wood for framing the side walls and roof using staples to connect the studs to the roof and floor. DRV uses aluminum studs and joists connecting them with glue and screws, no staples used any where.
Excel puts the intakes for the heater into the risers of the two bottom steps going to the bedroom area. I think it looks, ummm, less than classy.
I have ordered the DRV.
-- Edited by R12 on Thursday 1st of November 2012 07:52:22 AM
-- Edited by R12 on Thursday 1st of November 2012 07:56:23 AM
-- Edited by R12 on Thursday 1st of November 2012 07:57:09 AM
-- Edited by R12 on Saturday 3rd of November 2012 12:33:31 PM
Terry and Jo said
06:58 PM Nov 2, 2012
Jo,
I didn't say that the Trilogy had a double-box 12" frame. While there is one out there with that kind of frame, the Trilogy does have a 12" I-beam frame. I know that when researching a lot of different RV's one can forget what might have been on one as opposed to another. I did that myself with all the different fifth wheels that we considered. Now, as a reminder, here is the link to my review of the Trilogy on my blog.
When speaking of the "foundation" of the fifth wheel, I said that the 12" I-beam with the 8,000 lb axles and 17.5" wheels with "H" rated tires was a good thing. Perhaps not "the best," but still good enough to meet the standards that I would have for a full-time fifth wheel.
All in all, my biggest thing about the Trilogy was the inconsistency between the two models that they make. Even though both units are of the same length, weight capacities, and holding tank capacities, I was surprised that one model had the water manifold and the other didn't and one had 5 television input connectors and the other had 1 input. Why they couldn't have been standard between the two models, since they are so similar with regards to size and capacity, really surprised me. Therefore, what else is there on one model that is not on the other?
Now, I have since come to learn that what is called the "drop frame" on a fifth wheel is that portion that is in the area of the basement of the fifth wheel trailers. That "drop frame" is there to bridge between the part of the frame that most of the coach is built upon and that part of the frame that goes up and over for the pin box. In the past, I have commented that the Redwood was listed as having a 10" "drop frame" with the main frame being 12". In looking at the brochure that I got at the dealership where we saw the Trilogy, I see that the drop frame on the Trilogy is only of 8" I-beam construction. I think that is the smallest I've seen referred to on all the fifth wheels that we have considered. (That is found on page 29 of the Trilogy brochure.)
Everyone has their own standards for what they want to have, but from our standpoint, the Trilogy falls way short of being even a suitable full-time unit. From Jo's (my wife's) view, the Trilogy is not really organized well within the interior with regards to storage and its arrangement, plus she didn't like the counter space and organization of the kitchen. One other thing to bring up that I noticed was that even though the coach had two ceiling fans, on the units we looked at, only one was controlled with an on/off switch at the wall. The second one would have to be turned off and on by pulling on the chain at the fan. Jo would have to get a step stool to operate that fan.
Above all else, my opinion from my review of the two coaches comes to all free of charge. Thus, is there really any value in something that is free?
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Friday 2nd of November 2012 07:04:53 PM
Jo And Craig said
12:56 AM Nov 3, 2012
Terry, this is one I need clarification on, please. If the Dynamax Trilogy has a double stacked box frame (12") which you are not crazy about, then what makes the DRV any different with triple stacked box frame (15"). I'm curious.
P.S. While the underbelly LP tank on the Trilogy still bothers me, I do love it. However, I'm still studying the DRV and New Horizons, as well.
Thank you!
Jo And Craig said
03:17 AM Nov 3, 2012
Terry, your opinions are priceless! I trust what you have to say. Since you and Jo live in a FW, I have to take everything you say to heart! I certainly don't want to make a costly mistake when the time comes for us to purchase. I continue to learn from each comment/conversation; hence, one of the reasons I am so glad to have found this wonderful website. Not to mention Howard's journal! I'm living vicariously through Howard and Linda, and I appreciate their dedication to sharing their time and knowledge. I can't wait for the day we can begin OUR travels... and freedom. Hmmm... imagine that!
Terry and Jo said
04:16 AM Nov 3, 2012
One other thing that I failed to consider before. The Trilogy is equipped with two grey water tanks and one black tank. Since they list the grey tank capacity as 80 gallons, I have to wonder if both tanks are 40 gallon or a different configuration. If they are 40 gallons each, then they would be the same size as the black tank on the Trilogy.
As an idea of what may happen, our Mobile Suites has a 50 gallon black tank. By comparison, our grey tank is 75 gallons and the fresh water tank is 100 gallons. In our case, I usually dump the black tank every Saturday morning. With that in mind, I need to "manage" the amount of water in the grey tank so it will be as full as possible (without being overfull) so I have a high volume to flush the dump plumbing as good as possible. With two grey tanks on the Trilogy, that "management" might be more complicated, depending on what sinks drain to what tanks.
Obviously, a 40 gallon black tank may have to be more closely watched. Based on our use, I "think" that a 40 gallon "might" last a couple for a full week.
Thanks for your compliment. I really do try to be of assistance to everyone. While I am sure that some consider me to be too biased towards some brands and against others, I always try to make sure that what I recommend is based more on safety and construction.
Considering safety, I want to add one another thought. There is a couple that was mentioned by Howard in his journal and mentioned on the forums of a couple that had a Mobile Suites catch on fire and be completely destroyed. If I remember right, their names are Ed and Marilyn. Also, I think that Ed spoke of being able to remove the two 40# LPG cylinders from the coach so that there weren't two "bombs" sitting within the coach. That couldn't be done with a tank between the frame members. If a fire were to occur, while the LP tank might not explode, it could get hot enough to vent out fuel through the safety valve, thus adding more fuel to the fire.
Terry
Racerguy said
05:38 AM Nov 3, 2012
Our Cedar Creek had a 40 gallon for the Galley and a 40 for the shower/bath sink and a 40 for the black +70 for the fresh.We did very little dry camping(wasn't our style) but a couple times we had electric and water only.Both times we filled the two gray tanks in about a week but the black lasted two weeks and we used plenty of water to flush.I would say if you plan a lot of dry camping the grays will be a little short but manageable but the black would probably be o.k.
Jack Mayer said
04:51 PM Nov 3, 2012
Our 65 gallon black tank lasts a little over 3 weeks for us. (I guess we don't eat much )
Terry and Jo said
06:08 PM Nov 3, 2012
OK, Guys. I don't think your "personal" plumbing is working right.
Even with working 8 hours a day/5 days a week and using toilet facilities at work, I might could go 8 or perhaps 9 days before dumping. Now, with all that said, I do a lot of drinking of water (64 ounces a day), coffee (morning and evening), Gatorade (20 ounces) or (get this) Strawberry, caffeine free Diet Dr. Pepper. (That last item is my own concoction using the Dr. Pepper and Strawberry Fanta.)
Now, it may be the amount of water we use for flushing may be more than yours, so perhaps your "personal" plumbing is OK.
Terry
Racerguy said
07:35 PM Nov 3, 2012
Well I can say after two weeks our black was VERY full.You had to flush real slow or it would "Burp" on the seat.
Jack Mayer said
09:43 PM Nov 4, 2012
I just dumped my black yesterday - a FULL 3 weeks since we last dumped, and it was not yet "burping". But it IS 65 gallons. And it was full.
Lucky Mike said
10:04 PM Nov 4, 2012
you need to eat more Fiber!!!!!!!..........................................LOL
Jo And Craig said
11:59 PM Nov 4, 2012
GREAT point(s), Terry. Appreciate your help in thinking these things through. Chalk that up to experience. Excellent points and certainly worth pondering/taking into consideration as we plan.
Mark Serley said
04:00 AM Nov 17, 2012
man, you guys are making my head spin, but i'm loving it! i love all the info you all have, all the different ideas and opinions but more so than any, all the things an RVer needs to think about and consider AND comprehend. this site is too addicting-----please keep it up! mark
Arteides said
11:29 AM Jul 18, 2014
Thanks for asking the question as I have benefgotted from ther Info Here
jayc said
05:36 AM Jul 20, 2014
That's what this forum is best at, giving information to those that need and ask for help.
We love our Heartland Landmark and have been living in it for almost three years. Heartland has a good reputation for customer service and stands firmly behind their products.
Good luck in your choice.
The Junkman said
09:15 PM Jul 21, 2014
Man.. Just was looking at the Continental Coach Fifth wheels.. Incredible.. They are now my favorite.
I guess a guy just had one totally custom built .. and taped for a episode of extreme Rv.. just awsome.. Seen some used one at a pretty fair price too.. If I'm still out and about in 5 years.. I may have to trade up to one..If I can afford to..
My wife and I are starting our search for a 5th Wheel, we are first timers and want to do all the home work we can to get stated right. You all are a great group and the best help ever. Thanks Evan
The answers you get will be subjective as you've not given any kind of criteria by which to judge. For instance, a weight or price factor may be important to you. Weight might be a factor if you already have a truck and don't necessarily want to trade for something larger in order to tow the "better" fifth wheels. Price is an obvious factor. I will approach the answer with consideration of new units instead of used.
Probably the best is one that is custom built and is the most expensive and heaviest in weight. That would be the New Horizons. There are a couple of other custom built fifth wheel builders, but they aren't as well known, and I don't remember what their names are. For some reason, I think one is called Space Craft, or something like that.
Next in line would probably be the models in the DRV Suites line. Those, in order of price and amenities, would be Elite Suites at the top, Mobile Suites at midrange, and their newest, but less expensive is the Tradition. Also just announced in the Mobile Suites line is a series of about 4 floorplans with more amenities than the standard Mobile Suites. The Estate is one equipped with residential refrigerators, dishwasher, garbage disposal, etc. While the DRV Suites aren't "custom" made, the company is one that is easy to work with to better customize one's RV.
Following those brands/models come a whole raft of brands. Montana, Open Range, Cedar Creek, and a number of others come in less expensive and with a bit less in the price. I would guess that the majority of the full-timers have chosen their units from such brands.
Another thing to consider, especially if you plan to spend time in cold climates, is insulation. The DRV Suites have the thickest of walls at 3 1/4 inches and equivalent insurance. Most others have 2 inch walls, many using foam pad insulation instead of fiberglass. A good thing is to try to detemine what the "R" factors are for the roof, floor, and walls of the different brands.
Also, considering that a full-timer will spend a lot of time in their unit, probably the most important factor would be what is basically the very foundation of one's choice. That foundation is made up of the frame, suspension, axles, and wheels and tires. This will take a bit more research to choose the best. While the Elite Suites and Mobile Suites in the DRV Suites line have a "triple-box" 15 inch frame, a number of others are still very good with 12 inch I-beam frames. Be cautious of what the manufacturers list as their frame size. Sadly, some make it difficult to find out the size. Others have 2 sizes in their frame, such as Redwood, which has a 12 inch "main" frame but a 10 inch "drop" frame. I suspect he "drop" frame is that part of the frame where the majority of the coach is attached, especially the heavy kitchen area.
In addition to insulation, the heating systems are important to consider as well. Many will allow one to get a furnace in the 42,000 btu size range for the full coach. Others will allow one to order a unit with two 30,000 btu furnaces working in two different areas of the coach. (Our Mobile Suites has the two 30,000 btu furnaces and is something we really like.) Air conditioning is usually made up of roof mounted units, most with two. Some can get their a/c units as two 15,000 btu units, one 15,000 and one 13,500, and some I've seen even had three a/c units. Also, some of those a/c units can be equipped with heat pumps, which work well down to about 38 to 40 degrees before needing to change to furnaces.
If you've not got a truck already, it is usually advisable to choose one's fifth wheel before buying the truck. That way, one can choose a truck capable of towing what the fifth wheel weighs.
Good luck with your research and planning.
Terry
If you want some reading on a custom New Horizons, take a look at my website here.
"Best" is somewhat subjective - it will depend on your needs. What is "best" for one, would not be for another. But take a look at the New Horizons customizations and quality. Even if that is not what you are looking for, it will give you a basis of comparison. And feel free to contact me with any questions. My email is on my website, or you can ask here....
Here is a link to Continental Coach. http://www.forksrv.com/continental/
I ditto the Excel. Looked at Mobile Suites at the rally and I honestly think Excel is a more solid unit, even tough the Mobile Suites are nice and I'm sure a New Horizon would be great if you can afford it.
www.excelrvs.com
Edit by moderator: Activated link. Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Friday 28th of September 2012 06:38:44 PM
elames1, my suggestion would be for you to first start with a "mission profile" in which you will decide what you want to do, where you are going, and how long you will be staying. Your thread title says full-timing, so let's start with that. Are you going to be moving frequently, or are you going to stay put for months at a time? Are you going to be doing a lot of driving around, sight-seeing, shopping, etc., or are you going to pretty much stay at the campground? Do you have any physical limitations to deal with? I'm thinking here of all of the steps a large 5'er has (3-5 from outside to inside, then three more up to the bath/bedroom level), or taller/shorter than average? Will you be boondocking, or will you always have full hookups?
As you are working through that you can start going to shows and dealers, looking at floorplans. There really are only so many ways the space inside a coach can be divided up. It won't take you long to figure out what plans will work for you and what ones won't. You can check the various threads here and on other forums to find the brands that are consistently listed as the highest quality, and when you start your buying search you can focus on those brands.
Also establish a budget. Since you are new, I'd strongly suggest that you buy a used coach as your first one. You will NOT get it right the first time, and trading in a nearly new coach on another one is going to be an expensive lesson. Since 5'ers are somewhat cheaper than diesel pusher motor homes, you will probably be buying a newer 5'er than if you were looking at a DP. Be sure to keep several thousand dollars back for repairs and upgrades that the coach will need to suit you. Tires and batteries are the big ones here. Don't go by how much tread is on the tire. Go by the DOT date code on the sidewall. Any tire over 7 years old needs to be replaced, even if the tread looks brand new. More than one person has lost a coach on the way home because the old tires couldn't make it.
I went to look at the Excel, and it raises some questions for me, as I've not heard one of the phrases before. Their brochure lists their Limited model as having a "drop-Z" and "box" frame. First of all, does anyone know what size of frame it is? Second, what is a "drop-Z" frame? I've got an idea of what a box frame is because DRV's have triple-box frames on their Elites and Mobile Suites.
While it wouldn't make any difference if one was "following the sun," but the Excel does have quite a bit less of an "R" rating on their insulation. We wanted the better in our Mobile Suites, but we live in Oklahoma and will for a while yet, so we wanted the benefit of more insulation for both cold and heat.
I guess I need to see if I can find a dealer around here somewhere and check them out.
Terry
IMHO
JT
From the desk of the NuWa CEO:
FastEagle
Extending time to order a new HitchHker to Oct 1st
The number of people wanting to order a new HitchHiker since the announcement of production termination is greater than I expected. We have several couples out there still attempting to visit the factory or decide specific equipment needs for their new HitchHIker. I'm traveling for the next week and am not at the factory to face to face assist customers, and some of sales staff have been to the Kansas State Fair manning our display. So I feel that giving more time to people to order is the right thing to do, while we continue to monitor the market and make decisions at NuWa. So for those of you beginning to panic about ordering a unit, take a deep breath. As long as you understand that orders now placed will most likely not complete until after the first of the year, we will accept your order through October 1st. Beyond that date I will not speculate, and don't want people to start getting their hopes too high, as I'm not sure that conditions have or will change enough to warrant a change of my decision. I am pursuing a thought process of providing expanded service for 5th wheel owners of all brands at NuWa, as I feel we have the facility, skills and reputation to be a one stop service shop for the hundreds or thousands of 5th wheels owners out there, who might be frustrated with their trailer, dealer or manufacturer. We know how to fix suspensions, glide rooms and all aspects of reseal of an older trailer. Whereas in the past we viewed service as a non profit support need for our customers, I now realize all of this experience also makes us a natural to seek and expand the business of repair and add on equipment for 5th wheel trailers. We'll see how this discussion goes with staff.
Michael S. Mitchell, CEO, NuWa Industries
I know you think Mobile Suites are the best but it is ok for others to have a different opinion. I respect yours so I hope you respect mine. I can't explain the frame but myDH who researched all of that when we bought it felt it was a real strength to the unit. They are rated to -10 degrees and we have found it warm and cozy in the winter and cool in the summer.
elames1:
There are a whole group of good FT coaches out there and it is good to have options, hope you gets a chance to go through many units before the one they find that is right for you. We had about 4 on our short list before we decided, if you can I hope you get a chance to visit a couple of the factories too. Looking can be overwhelming at times but also fun. Good luck on your search.
Perhaps you misunderstood my meaning. While the Mobile Suites are good, they aren't the "best," and I've never said that they were. I've also stated that if someone is not in a position of living where the climate is cold, the heavier insulation isn't necessary. I've also stated in the past that everyone does have differing ideas and needs. However, when one specifies that they are looking for the best brand(s) of 5th wheels for "fulltiming" (see the title of this thread) I tend to caution them to look for the best quality that they can afford.
Sadly, I've seen a number of folks on the three different RV forums that I participate on buy something without taking the time to really research as many options as possible. A good number have purchased something within just a few weeks or months. We took about 2 years in researching before we finally decided on what we would buy. What is also noticable to me as one who has been on RV Dreams forums for some time is that a lot of folks who have come here and asked questions no longer participate. I have to wonder if they are really happy with their choices, or are they disappointed with what they've gotten into and given up the whole lifestyle.
I am sorry if you feel that I've not respected your choices.
Terry
If this is based on this year, tomorrow is October 1, thus it is unlikely that anyone just starting to look is going to have time to place an order.
Terry
-- Edited by wmalefyt on Wednesday 3rd of October 2012 02:52:07 AM
NuWa is one of the few RV manufacturers we are considering as a full-time unit that we can afford and will be comfortable in.
I have recently visited the DRV plant in Howe, IN and the Excel plant in Smith Center, KS.
The DRV MS and ES use a triple stacked box frame utilizing two 2x6 and one 2x3 to make a 15" frame. One of the 2x6 has 1/4" thick side walls and the other two tubes have 11 gauge side walls (about 1/8") and they are willing to make the three tubes from 1/4" if desired, but for quite a bit more money. The frames are manufactured by Lippert to DRV specs. DRV doesn't use fiber glass for insulation but a high density wool is used giving the MS and ES a high R rating of R-16 sidewalls, R-25 roof, R-29 floor. Very high in the industry especially using the 3 1/4" side walls.
Excel uses a 2x10" box frame with the side walls being 1/4" thick. The frames are manufactured by Excel in the same building the rest of the unit is made and assembled. Excel does do one thing I hadn't seen before. The frame rails are crowned, according to the rep, similar to wood used in construction. If you've ever built using wood you will remember that you always sight down the length of the wood and put the crown of the wood facing upwards. This allows the wood to straighten when a load is applied. Excel runs a bead of weld on the top of the frame section directly over the suspension. They claim that this "bends" the frame slightly upward to give it a crown that is small but useful. I can't confirm that this works but I did see the bead of weld so I know it is done.
The Drop Z frame that Excel uses is shown below. The basement area is lower than the rest of the main frame giving them more storage area in the basement.
Excel uses wood for framing the side walls and roof using staples to connect the studs to the roof and floor. DRV uses aluminum studs and joists connecting them with glue and screws, no staples used any where.
Excel puts the intakes for the heater into the risers of the two bottom steps going to the bedroom area. I think it looks, ummm, less than classy.
I have ordered the DRV.
-- Edited by R12 on Thursday 1st of November 2012 07:52:22 AM
-- Edited by R12 on Thursday 1st of November 2012 07:56:23 AM
-- Edited by R12 on Thursday 1st of November 2012 07:57:09 AM
-- Edited by R12 on Saturday 3rd of November 2012 12:33:31 PM
Jo,
I didn't say that the Trilogy had a double-box 12" frame. While there is one out there with that kind of frame, the Trilogy does have a 12" I-beam frame. I know that when researching a lot of different RV's one can forget what might have been on one as opposed to another. I did that myself with all the different fifth wheels that we considered. Now, as a reminder, here is the link to my review of the Trilogy on my blog.
Personal Observations on Dynamax Trilogy Fifth Wheel
When speaking of the "foundation" of the fifth wheel, I said that the 12" I-beam with the 8,000 lb axles and 17.5" wheels with "H" rated tires was a good thing. Perhaps not "the best," but still good enough to meet the standards that I would have for a full-time fifth wheel.
All in all, my biggest thing about the Trilogy was the inconsistency between the two models that they make. Even though both units are of the same length, weight capacities, and holding tank capacities, I was surprised that one model had the water manifold and the other didn't and one had 5 television input connectors and the other had 1 input. Why they couldn't have been standard between the two models, since they are so similar with regards to size and capacity, really surprised me. Therefore, what else is there on one model that is not on the other?
Now, I have since come to learn that what is called the "drop frame" on a fifth wheel is that portion that is in the area of the basement of the fifth wheel trailers. That "drop frame" is there to bridge between the part of the frame that most of the coach is built upon and that part of the frame that goes up and over for the pin box. In the past, I have commented that the Redwood was listed as having a 10" "drop frame" with the main frame being 12". In looking at the brochure that I got at the dealership where we saw the Trilogy, I see that the drop frame on the Trilogy is only of 8" I-beam construction. I think that is the smallest I've seen referred to on all the fifth wheels that we have considered. (That is found on page 29 of the Trilogy brochure.)
Everyone has their own standards for what they want to have, but from our standpoint, the Trilogy falls way short of being even a suitable full-time unit. From Jo's (my wife's) view, the Trilogy is not really organized well within the interior with regards to storage and its arrangement, plus she didn't like the counter space and organization of the kitchen. One other thing to bring up that I noticed was that even though the coach had two ceiling fans, on the units we looked at, only one was controlled with an on/off switch at the wall. The second one would have to be turned off and on by pulling on the chain at the fan. Jo would have to get a step stool to operate that fan.
Above all else, my opinion from my review of the two coaches comes to all free of charge. Thus, is there really any value in something that is free?
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Friday 2nd of November 2012 07:04:53 PM
Terry, this is one I need clarification on, please. If the Dynamax Trilogy has a double stacked box frame (12") which you are not crazy about, then what makes the DRV any different with triple stacked box frame (15"). I'm curious.
P.S. While the underbelly LP tank on the Trilogy still bothers me, I do love it. However, I'm still studying the DRV and New Horizons, as well.
Thank you!
Terry, your opinions are priceless! I trust what you have to say. Since you and Jo live in a FW, I have to take everything you say to heart! I certainly don't want to make a costly mistake when the time comes for us to purchase. I continue to learn from each comment/conversation; hence, one of the reasons I am so glad to have found this wonderful website. Not to mention Howard's journal! I'm living vicariously through Howard and Linda, and I appreciate their dedication to sharing their time and knowledge. I can't wait for the day we can begin OUR travels... and freedom. Hmmm... imagine that!
One other thing that I failed to consider before. The Trilogy is equipped with two grey water tanks and one black tank. Since they list the grey tank capacity as 80 gallons, I have to wonder if both tanks are 40 gallon or a different configuration. If they are 40 gallons each, then they would be the same size as the black tank on the Trilogy.
As an idea of what may happen, our Mobile Suites has a 50 gallon black tank. By comparison, our grey tank is 75 gallons and the fresh water tank is 100 gallons. In our case, I usually dump the black tank every Saturday morning. With that in mind, I need to "manage" the amount of water in the grey tank so it will be as full as possible (without being overfull) so I have a high volume to flush the dump plumbing as good as possible. With two grey tanks on the Trilogy, that "management" might be more complicated, depending on what sinks drain to what tanks.
Obviously, a 40 gallon black tank may have to be more closely watched. Based on our use, I "think" that a 40 gallon "might" last a couple for a full week.
Thanks for your compliment. I really do try to be of assistance to everyone. While I am sure that some consider me to be too biased towards some brands and against others, I always try to make sure that what I recommend is based more on safety and construction.
Considering safety, I want to add one another thought. There is a couple that was mentioned by Howard in his journal and mentioned on the forums of a couple that had a Mobile Suites catch on fire and be completely destroyed. If I remember right, their names are Ed and Marilyn. Also, I think that Ed spoke of being able to remove the two 40# LPG cylinders from the coach so that there weren't two "bombs" sitting within the coach. That couldn't be done with a tank between the frame members. If a fire were to occur, while the LP tank might not explode, it could get hot enough to vent out fuel through the safety valve, thus adding more fuel to the fire.
Terry
Our 65 gallon black tank lasts a little over 3 weeks for us. (I guess we don't eat much
)
OK, Guys. I don't think your "personal" plumbing is working right.
Even with working 8 hours a day/5 days a week and using toilet facilities at work, I might could go 8 or perhaps 9 days before dumping. Now, with all that said, I do a lot of drinking of water (64 ounces a day), coffee (morning and evening), Gatorade (20 ounces) or (get this) Strawberry, caffeine free Diet Dr. Pepper. (That last item is my own concoction using the Dr. Pepper and Strawberry Fanta.)
Now, it may be the amount of water we use for flushing may be more than yours, so perhaps your "personal" plumbing is OK.
Terry
GREAT point(s), Terry. Appreciate your help in thinking these things through. Chalk that up to experience. Excellent points and certainly worth pondering/taking into consideration as we plan.
Thanks for asking the question as I have benefgotted from ther Info Here
That's what this forum is best at, giving information to those that need and ask for help.
We love our Heartland Landmark and have been living in it for almost three years. Heartland has a good reputation for customer service and stands firmly behind their products.
Good luck in your choice.
I guess a guy just had one totally custom built .. and taped for a episode of extreme Rv.. just awsome.. Seen some used one at a pretty fair price too.. If I'm still out and about in 5 years.. I may have to trade up to one..If I can afford to..