Do a search here http://www.rvtowables.com/findrv/rvsforsale.php You can enter alot of criteria in their search box and see what comes up. I have found Montana's, Jayco Designers, Excel's, Carriages etc, some newer, some older all in that price range. These are not new, but most have been cared for. What kind of tow vehicle do you have? Its better to find a 5'er you like, then go buy the truck to match for the size you need F250, 350, 450, MDT, HDT etc. Alot of people get upset when their truck can't pull the trailer through the mountains!
Edit by moderator: Activated link. Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Saturday 22nd of September 2012 12:20:40 PM
sunflwrgirl said
03:57 PM Sep 22, 2012
I have been researching for weeks now and trying so hard to understand everything as much I can. Im actually more of a hands on than to read only so we are even spending our Saturdays haning around camping world and even the rv lots close by our house. My thing is we want everything to be as best it can be in the beginning so that we don't have "I wish" moments after, that end up costing us so much or making us wish we never did full timing. My husband and I are so excited to live full time as rvers after retirement that its now starting to feel like forever away.. At any rate, I have narrowed it down that we want to stay as much under $20,000 as possible for our future 5th wheel. That being said our biggest and foremost concern is that we can live in it year round. Like making sure we have something that comes with great winterizing. I have been looking into Thor products as that is one that we was told is of high quality for full timing. If anyone can tell us from there experience what brand they feel is best for full timing it would be greatly appreciated.
Terry and Jo said
05:38 PM Sep 22, 2012
Phyllis,
With any RV, it does take research to find a good unit that one can use for full-timing. Thor Industries has some good and some not so good. Keystone products such as the Montana have been used by a number of folks here on RV Dreams. On the other hand, some like the Redwood concern me. According to their website and brochures, the Redwood's "drop" frame is only a 10-inch frame.
Cedar Creek by Forest River, Carriage products (now out of business), Open Range, and others all have some of their models that are good for full time use. With all of them, you will need to research and find what is good for full time that matches what you want to do. For instance, if you want to be in cold climates during the winter, look for good insulation R-factors and tank heaters.
However, with your budget of $20,000, I suspect that you will have to limit yourself to used units. We used to have a Salem travel trailer and a Rockwood fifth wheel that would not have been sufficient for full-time living. At least, not for us. Both of those units were bought new and both were over $20,000. What you want to do can probably be done, but to avoid costly mistakes, you really need to do your research.
Good luck.
Terry
rclvnv said
08:04 PM Sep 22, 2012
Welcome. As always, the advice you have been given above is "spot on". We have been full-timing for almost two years now, and even having had RV's of all types over a 40 year period, felt just what you are feeling. We sold our house,downsized,and did all the things necessary to accomplish our goal, but found it necessary (for us) to break the over-all task,which you correctly say is overwhelming,(I agree), into easily managed parts. The most useful tool, for us, without question,was this forum. I spent almost two years before the move, on it daily. Some of the people who have already answered you here were the most helpful. In time you will see through shared experiences that what you want is doable and reasonably so. I too was consumed with the thought of avoiding missteps.I feel participation in this forum has helped me avoid some obvious mistakes. Knowledge is power as they say. There is a lot of it here. The trick becomes, of course to take a piece at a time,assess your needs,and to the extent possible apply the information offered here to your needs & wishes. The great thing about this place is that while a lot of us have opinions and preferences,we are all genuinely interested in helping. As I age, I find that increasingly difficult to come by. I am glad you have joined us.
Richard
sunflwrgirl said
03:52 AM Sep 23, 2012
I really do love this site so much and hope that one day we can sit around a camp fire one sharing stories. Everyone has just been amazing in here and we are beyond grateful. I am still feeling very overwhelmed but all that everyone has said here is helping comfort me allot. My husband and I did go for yet another day at Camper world and happen to come across a very nice 09 Open Range today. They had it priced at 34,000 and we manage to get them to 26,000. I tried to run it through the Nada Guide and it appears we would be doing good with it. Of course I am only using the factory model of it all and not even adding all the extra things that we noticed are not factory and in great condition. Such as all the furniture. ;) My thing with this unit, though I did love it very much and it is the only one I have really fallen in love with... is that I don't really know what to look for that can be damaged. I did look at the framing everywhere, we did look in all drawers and cabinets. Only thing I noticed is under neath the rv (im guessing the toilet area) there was a big amount of nasty stuff. The salesman made mention it might be a lil leakage from the toilet section which he say does happen. As he did call it a "fungus" probably that can be washed off.. Is that normal or are we getting scammed on that?
Jim, totally agree with your thoughts, as we do not have our vehicle yet. Our plan has been RV first and truck after.. Our plans however have been to look towards a Diesel F350. I would like that we have a truck that can handle a much higher amount that what we are pulling... Not to mention I am thinking no matter what the F350 should be fine for us at any level we get. I doubt we ever need any bigger than a 350, which to me means we can own this truck forever and ever.. Or least hope that it goes that ways ;D
rclvnv said
11:04 AM Sep 23, 2012
Again,spot on with what has been said. I have an Open Range and am very pleased with it,however I bought it new in 2011,and had the benefit of a two year warranty.I have had two major repairs,both done to my satisfaction,hassle -free. Neither of them were plumbing issues. That said, I'm active on the owner's forum (a great tool for any brand you consider), and from what I know, any Open Range titled as an '09 would be a very early model, as they are a new company .Given what I know about the company's willingness to fix whatever is needed under the wnt'y, I,d say that previous owner did not care about or was too lazy to get the "fungus" (not) problem fixed and therefore did not take care of the rig, period. You were wise to move on.But shouldn't necessarily eliminate OR from consideration.
See if any of the mobile RV repair people in your area will inspect an RV, for a fee. If not, do an internet search for inspectors. The wisest investment you can make. DO NOT purchase from any dealer or individual who will not allow an inspection. "As is" or not, the value is determined as much by condition as anything else. Bringing an RV in for service, even if you don't full-time yet,(that's a whole different story), is a lot different than bringing in a car. If you buy from a dealer make them do the fixes before you take delivery, do not let them tell you "we'll take care of that under the (whatever) day wn'ty, if they offer one.
As previously stated,you are well supported here. Also,as you have demonstrated, your instinct is always to be followed. Although you may not have the technical knowledge to know what was wrong (few do), your gut told you something was wrong. Always heed that internal alarm!
I don't know where you live, but if there are are true family owned small RV dealers in your area, my experience over 40 years of RV ownership has been to find one and deal with them. Every time I've even attempted to deal with a large dealership, I've caught them trying something I hadn't agreed to and walked away. Twelve years ago,we got lucky. We have a dealer,family owned since 1963,currently run by the founder and his children and their children. Most of their employees have never worked anywhere else. No one leaves, as the founder's daughter is fond of saying .Almost all of their business is word of mouth referral.They have grown to three locations but family is involved in every part of the operation.If a family member doesn't sell you the rig, one will do the finance part for you, or the walk-through,or service,or something. My wife and I operated mom & pop family service businesses our whole lives, so perhaps I'm biased,but I seek out family owned businesses with strong reputations,whenever I can. We sold a 100 year old business to a large corporation who proceeded to run it into the ground only to close it 5 yrs later. You can see why I feel as I do.
Richard
-- Edited by rclvnv on Sunday 23rd of September 2012 11:22:16 AM
53 Merc said
01:17 PM Sep 23, 2012
"Only thing I noticed is under neath the rv (im guessing the toilet area) there was a big amount of nasty stuff. The salesman made mention it might be a lil leakage from the toilet section which he say does happen. As he did call it a "fungus" probably that can be washed off.. Is that normal or are we getting scammed on that?end of quote!!"
That is one thing to be repaired prior to purchase. Washed off? I hardly think so!! Toilet leaks do happen? Not on my rig, and certainly not repaired. I fail to see how a salesman can even offer for sale a mold infested unit. That "nasty stuff" has to be the result of a leak, and that is a deal breaker to me. He needs to strip off the undercover and find the leak. Durn salesmen anyway. RV sales people are somewhat akin to used car salemen, oily and sneaky. There are a few good ones out there, but man, they are thin on the ground.
TheHarveys said
02:20 PM Sep 23, 2012
I agree with Ken. I cannot believe they tried to sell the trailer without cleaning it up! Even though you love that trailer,you should probably run away from it and that salesman. He has proven what kind of salesman he is ("oily and sneaky"). Who knows what else may be wrong with it. The previous owners probably got rid of it because they were tired of getting it repaired. My sister and brother-in-law have also been looking for an RV. They take me along for advice and it continues to amaze me how underhanded many salesman are. Thankfully, there are some good ones out there. You need to find a good one and then be willing to pay a little more for a high quality unit. Remember, if a deal sounds too good to be true...it probably is. Before you buy any RV, you should have it thoroughly checked out by a reputable service facility.
VanMar said
02:52 PM Sep 23, 2012
Phyllis,
I see that you are quite a ways from Houston. You may want to check out pplmotorhomes.com, though. That might give you an idea of what's out there. I saw several units there from '02 to '06 that were in your price range. And, as you found out, people are usually willing to negotiate. I do believe, though, that units at PPL are consignments. Some salesperson may have to call the owner of the unit and act as the go-between for negotiations.
Welcome to the forum and best of luck in your endeavors!
Vance
Edit by moderator: Activated link. Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Sunday 23rd of September 2012 03:32:32 PM
sunflwrgirl said
04:02 PM Sep 23, 2012
Before posting our experience in finding what we had thought to be a good deal, I had debated if I put so much info on here. I was worried that maybe some people might think it was to much. I am so happy I did post and even more ecstatic that you both have taken the time to respond. Awesome.. just absolutely awesome and you both have eased my mind so much. I was having what I thought to be anxiety and stress over this new huge choice we was making. After you both posted your thoughts, I then started to realize some of the body language and things that our salesman had done. I should had really listen to my gut and wisdom to not listen to him. My thing is I always have my guard up with salesman no matter if I think I like them or not. Which makes me sometimes second guess if the person is telling the truth or not.
At any rate, thank you sooooo much for posting. We have definitely made the choice not to purchase this rv and now have no plans to even deal with that person again. What an absolute jerk.. One other things he had say is that they sell used RV's "as is". Im curious if all rv places do that or do they normally give like even a 30 day warranty? At this moment I am thinking that I don't even want to go through camper world at all. Starting to think the smaller businesses and even individual people would be better than to deal with them. Arrrrgghhh I am feeling very frustrated at the moment since we more than let this guy know how much it meant to us to make the best choice and how much a big deal all this is to us. What an ars to really not give a crap and be so dang greedy. He could had made a great sale with us no matter, since we made it very clear we were ready to purchase one, just wanted to make sure it was the right one.. Now he wont make a dime from us and if anyone asks we will be sure to let them know not to work with him..
One last question..Harvey you say that we should have it checked out by a reputable service facility.. How do we do that? I mean we dont have a tow vehicle yet and I am sure we can't trust the people selling it to say it is in great condition. I do wish that we can have them checked out before buying. Heck what I really wish is that one of you all can come with us and spend a good day rv hunting so we can bring one home and feel really good about it.. ;D
Jack Mayer said
04:55 PM Sep 23, 2012
It is fairly common to sell RVs, especially older ones, "As is". Older RVs can be money pits - especially in the appliance and electrical areas. SOme dealers only sell "as is", and some put on 30 day warranties. Just remember, you are usually "paying" for that warrantee.
Terry and Jo said
10:30 PM Sep 23, 2012
Phyllis,
You gotta love it!! As you can see, everyone is stepping up and giving good advice. Good job in walking away from that one coach.
If you are still interested in the Open Range brand name, you might want to check out the Open Range Owner's Forum. (Yep, that's the link to them.) If you do nothing else but go there and read, you will find a lot of information that will be helpful to you. In fact, with any brand that really piques your interest, see if you can find an owner's association with a forum for that brand. Jo and I did that when we were researching the DRV Suites models before we bought ours. (I didn't mention DRV Suites or New Horizons earlier, even though that would be the best full-time rigs, because they are more expensive than you are wanting to spend.)
Now, one caution with owner's forums. It is natural and expected for owners to post questions and complaints on forums about their rigs because they are looking for a solution to a problem. That is good in that it gives you an idea of what might be a problem with a brand. It is bad because it gives the impression that everyone is looking for solutions for problems so it must be a bad brand. That is not necessarily true. There are likely a lot more owners that are NOT posting on forums because they aren't having problems.
Here is the key question for any owner's forums with regards to the "owner's" brand. "If you were in a situation to trade and buy a new RV, would you still consider the brand that you have?" I don't know how many times I asked that question over the two years of research that Jo and I did before buying. You will be surprised by the number of "brand name" owners that will tell you that they would buy the brand again.
You are wise in buying the trailer first and then getting the truck to make sure that the truck will safely handle the trailer. For the most part, the Ford F350's will tow most brands of trailers. Only when one gets into the heavy units like the 38' DRV Suites models and the New Horizons would one need to really look at a larger truck. Our Mobile Suites (DRV Suites model) weighs in at 18,500 lbs of GVWR, so we have a Ford F450 because I am the "King of Overkill." While a truck with single rear wheels will usually be sufficient for, say, the Open Range models, the dual rear wheel trucks will give you more weight capacity and more stable handling, especially when in cross winds and in turns.
Now, if you lived closer to San Antonio and New Braunfels, there would be someone that I could recommend that you contact. In fact, I heard from them about a week ago and they are looking into starting an RV dealership. They were even helpful with us in our research because she was a factory representative for DRV Suites. If you don't mind a drive, let me know and I will get in touch with them. Also, considering that you "might" not mind a drive, keep an eye on the website for Rolling Retreats. They are a Mom and Pop RV dealership for DRV Suites, but they do take in some other brands as trades on occasion. If you've read the RV Dreams forum thread that relates to them, you will see that there are a few very satisfied customers.
Oh, and congratulations on having a "good eye" for the problems. In a way, you might have been lucky. If the dealer had been more diligent and less lazy, they might have "cleaned up" that Open Range and you'd have never known anything was wrong. So, always be observant and keep the "sniffer" going as well.
Terry
PD CFK said
11:54 PM Sep 23, 2012
If at all possible, slow down a bit in your search for a rig. The longer you look and read, the more you'll learn and the more comfortable with making a decision. Read some blogs of folks who have an rv like what you are interested in and you will learn from that also. Friends of ours recently got an older 5th wheel from Motor Home Specialists in Alvarado, Tx, just from watching what they had listed on-line, for awhile. It was a unit that had been taken in trade. When it was first posted it was more than they could swing but eventually the price changed, and they were able to get it at a price within the range you are looking for. Also although you are looking for pre-owned, a trip to the factory which builds the new units is an eye-opener; you get to see what goes in from the ground up. ps... try not to stress out about it :) and enjoy the hunt :) Pat K
sunflwrgirl said
03:00 AM Sep 24, 2012
Ok, so I did type up a nice lengthy response earlier and had hit send. Coming back now to check on things and see that my response is not even there.. Errr I guess ... what can you do but just keep going huh ;p
I most definitly am going to check into these sites that some of you have given. I woudl think its best to always go through people that others know so well and have been treated kindly. Like I say, Don really messed up with us by acting as greedy as he clearly did.. At any rate, Terry and Jo.. you mention that you have friends that live near San Antonio and New Braunfels. By all means please send them to me for help. We would love that and to drive to San Antonio for sure is not far as we do have very close friends that live there so if we knew we were going to purchase we would make the drive.
Also about our idea range, we are looking for no less than 33 ft but to go 40 I would think would be the limit. We have decided to bump our dollars to $30,000. We would really like to keep our payments less than 300 and that is why I am trying to stay low on the full dollar amount.
Thank you also Terry and Joe for the comment on catching the "fungus". We truly may not know everything on what we are doing, but figure if we take our time to look and see if some looks a lil weird to atleast ask. I figured the wrong person to ask was the salesman but I still wanted to hear what he was gonna say. Suppose it was my own test to him, to that I thank all of you for helping to confirm he was .. we will say.. not a nice person ;p
Oh yes, one the things I had try to ask earlier was, I came across this RV Consumer resources online. I was thinking to purchase but am curious if any of you had seen or purchased yourself. Wondering if this might help me as well..
As far as the Citations. I do like those and love that they are made out of Canada. They would definitely be great for living in fulltime as this is what we are wanting.. I tried to search for another model made out of Canada but was truly hitting road blocks so am assuming there is no others. My next one that I keep coming back to is that Jayvo and the infinities. Dang those are some beautiful homes. If I could get a $50G home down to under $300 monthly payments I would for sure do it ;p
Well, enough babbling this time. You all are so incredibly awesome for helping. One day I hope that I can help someone or should I say many people just as you with all this..
kb0zke said
03:09 AM Sep 24, 2012
Lots of great advice here. I've used the owners' forums as one of the filters for a brand. I expect to see various problems being raised and solutions presented. When I see "take it back to the factory" for nearly every problem I drop that brand from further consideration. We're looking for a full-time coach so we can travel the entire country. I don't want to have to run back to (fill in the blank) every time something goes wrong.
Since you are looking for a full-time coach, I'd suggest that you stick with high-end coaches, even though they will be a few years old. Personally, if I was looking for a 5'er, I'd stick to a Mobile Suites or an Elite Suites. Unfortunately, you'll probably need more than an F350 for one.
You might want to consider a motor home and toad. The total cost will probably be the same, the fuel use going down the road will be the same, but the fuel use running around can be quite a bit less. Remember that the truck you use to pull your 5'er is also your daily driver. Just a thought.
PM me if you would like a summary of our two-year research into a full-time coach.
sunflwrgirl said
03:55 AM Sep 24, 2012
VanMar, I did just take a moment for the PPL site. Wow, great site. My only curiosity is, are these all checked before they are posted so that they are up to par? I did notice some really great ones on there that we would be interested in. Only thing is like I say if we were going to drive that distance we would be going to purchase for sure.. ;)
Also something I had sent earlier but did not go through is that we have come to the conclusion to purchase in November as my husband comes out the field. Seems to us it is the wiser of our choices for our future but also does cause a crunch on things. As we have come to this conclusion is when it gave me a much clearer picture of having to let go of our sentimentals. That has been a lil hard on me but luckily we have three beautiful children that understand and also see these items as sentimentals as well so I am confident they will be on good hands and hopefully passed down to their children.
As for the Rolling Retreats site.. absolutely gorgeous! Though I just dont see that happening unless it is a much older unit.. ;)
Terry and Jo said
04:40 AM Sep 24, 2012
Phyllis,
I can't guarantee anything as I've not yet contacted our Texas friend. However, I will send her an e-mail this evening to see if she would be willing to help you. At the moment, I doubt that they have a dealership yet, but they may have an idea of where one could find a good unit. Once I find out, I'll send you a private message.
November? I really caution against that, at least for the "definite" planning. That hardly gives one the time to find a really good unit for the price you have set for yourself. As for Rolling Retreats, I don't expect for you to consider one of the DRV units, but Alicia and Slade do get the occasional very nice SOB (Some Other Brand) in as a trade. Those are usually at the bottom of their Inventory list on their website.
I would like to address one of kb0zke's comments. With all due respect to him as he is a very knowledgeable person, I don't agree with the idea that if an owner's forum has a lot of comments about "taking it to the factory" for repair as a bad omen. In fact, I feel that it is just the opposite. Even on the forums for the DRV Suites (Mobile Suites and Elite Suites), there is a lot of agreement that the factory is the BEST place to take one for repair. Personally, I would have greater trust in the factory wanting to keep a customer happy by doing the job right. Sadly, dealerships do not have the same philosophy. Let me explain.
Let's say that Terry's RV's is in business with 4 or 5 different name brands, one of which is a top of the line product. With regards to most RV dealerships that I know of, Terry would likely sell a LOT more of the lower priced brands, thus getting their cash flow through multiple sales and repairs. The top of the line brand units will likely not be sold as much because of price, thus every one that is in stock is costing the dealership interest on his business loans. With multiple lower priced RV's being repaired, the dealership may not be so quick to "do the job right" on any of them, including the top of the line brand, partly because of he cost and accrued interest on those higher dollar units.
Even with the dealerships that sell DRV Suites products, one hears of a dealer that doesn't want to work on a unit that the dealership didn't sell. Sadly, that goes on with every brand and most dealerships. So, if one is 2000 miles from one's own dealer, one is taking a chance on the quality of the repairs being made on one's unit.
Terry
Lucky Mike said
04:58 AM Sep 24, 2012
As Terry said.....if I had the option of factory repairs that would be my choice......the dealer will do a repair and charge the factory......the factory will fix the problem and upgrade what it takes to make sure it doesnt happen again!!!
VanMar said
01:43 PM Sep 24, 2012
sunflwrgirl wrote:
VanMar, I did just take a moment for the PPL site. Wow, great site. My only curiosity is, are these all checked before they are posted so that they are up to par? I did notice some really great ones on there that we would be interested in. Only thing is like I say if we were going to drive that distance we would be going to purchase for sure.. ;)
I think that consignment units are only checked out/repaired to the extent the seller wants them to. My experience with consignments is limited to a boat. The owners had repairs done and then let the dealer sell it for them. Dealer was the go-between for price negotiations. It was up to me to take it for a sea trial (test drive) and inspect it. As it turned out, I got a good deal and a good boat. As with any other used coach, it will be up to you to have it inspected and factor any repairs into the offer. This might be difficult with a long distance purchase.
Good luck and like they said, take your time looking.
Vance
sunflwrgirl said
04:12 PM Sep 24, 2012
Terry and Jo we feel as though we do not have much of a choice. Retirement is getting to be at less than 2 years and most people wont want to give a loan if its less than 18 months. Not to mention military is downsizing quite a bit these days and we are way past retirement anyways.. Which means they can ask us to leave any time they want. Also after talking with many people we can actually make a lil money to live this way while we are waiting for that retirement at which will help us even more financially for our future... Also want to thank you for talking with your friend and I am looking forward to hearing from her if they are interested in helping..
At any rate, I do believe to that the factory would do a much better job at fixing things also. They want us to all tell each other to come to them as well as us to return for a new rv later.
The PPL site does seem like a great place to go and really should be able to drive away with a nice home. Been playing in there allot and I do like many of them. However can someone please explain more of this "Earnest money deposit". Is that money put into your purchase or is it just given to them? To me if you are doing a loan then clearly you are wanting to purchase the item.
Last does anyone know of places in lower California that may be good, since we actually are close to there as well living in El Paso. Or I even noticed that Arizona is pretty close as well, considering if we was going to drive to Houston. Like I was in Phoenix a couple weekends ago and it appeared to me that Arizona is the land of rv's. All I could think of when leaving the area was how jealous I was of everyone. lol
Lucky Mike said
04:40 PM Sep 24, 2012
I for one Refuse to give a Salesman or dealer a Deposit to look at his stock.....when pricing units I prefer to go there and see it , try it and then get my bottom line.
I then go home go on line and do a national search and find comparable units and price them.........I have saved better than 20 k just by spending 600 on a plane ticket..........warranties on used units from most dealers are short and not worth paying the sales commission to get it.........look over Howards Warranty packages for units , these are a better deal when you figure in the extra a dealer will charge in commission as to saving it and putting it into an outside warranty package that will cover most repairs for a year or better.
I have had RV servicers go look at coaches I've looked at online That I was serious about and paid them to do a proxy inspection for me, I have had people I have known and done it for others , go and look at something for me , take pictures and go through it because they where close or traveling through that area clear across the country.........
Remember: This is a buyers market at the moment, there are alot of repo's out here....distress sales......Florida , texas , Arz, Kentucky are flooded with these units and are trying to unload them.....
When someone shows you list price paperwork you might ask to see the original bill of sale.......you would be amazed to find that some Coaches list at 500 - 600 k and sell new for 50 - 100 k less.
Never Buy any used unit for very much more than NADA Wholesale price unless its perfectly what you wanted............Remember , you really dont need your unit til a day or 2 before you leave.....and the best deals seem to come along right after you buy yours.......Go Slow shop long and hard.......Dreaming of the perfect unit is part of looking for it!!!!!!!!!!
sunflwrgirl said
05:24 PM Sep 24, 2012
Thank you Mike, but I have to say we are right there with you that we would never buy a unit without seeing it and really being in it as well. I think my husband and I both do very well at not being impulsive buyers and we try our best to make the "right" decision for us the first time else go without till we do.
As far as traveling all over to purchase an Rv it is really not so easy for us. Just that if we was going to do it might as well try to make it as close as possible or least around family. Living here in El Paso can be good in the sense that this is a "poor" area which helps make prices better, but I fear that also means quality as well.
Also you say about the Foreclosed rv's.. I seriously have been trying to go that route this whole time. Not having any luck at all figuring out the best place to look. I would by far be most interested in a foreclosed rv. If you happen to know of a couple sites to help me down that path. ;)
Terry and Jo said
06:12 PM Sep 24, 2012
Phyllis,
If I remember correctly from our days of buying homes, "earnest money" is money deposited to show that one is serious about the purchase of some form of property. In some cases, if one does NOT buy that property, they may lose their earnest money. If one buys the property, the earnest money should be a part of the purchase price.
Not sure what you mean about being in Southern California and Arizona. Are you considering living in those areas or are you going to still be traveling regularly? The reason I ask is that in some states, residency depends on how long one is in one place in the state and some other factors like employment. I would research that aspect pretty well as one wouldn't want to establish "domicile residency" in a state like South Dakota only to lose that when one accidently gets into a situation of becoming a resident elsewhere.
Honestly, I have no idea of all the state requirements on establishing residency, so I'm just pointing out something to research. It is likely that some of the other participants on the forums can give you much better information. One thing that will be a factor with California is that their vehicle standards are much more stringent than other states.
Terry
sunflwrgirl said
06:18 PM Sep 24, 2012
Terry and Jo, We are planning to use SD as our "residency" for sure. That is not even a question as I have done extensive research as to what is truly best for our situation. As for Southern Cali, Arizona and such I was merely speaking of RV sales. We have no thoughts at all of wanting to purchase a house. Only an RV home ;) But thank you very much for looking out for us..
So then the earnest money is always placed to the item being purchased. Not just money for their finance office to have...
Ckerr said
07:16 PM Sep 24, 2012
Earnest Money is basically a deposit to hold the product until you go through with the purchase. It is always applied to the purchase price. Whether you get it back if you decide not to purchase, depends. I would definitely ask the seller. They will be able to answer your specific questions.
sunflwrgirl said
08:06 PM Sep 24, 2012
Thank you Ckerr for your clarification.. by the way I grew up on a dairy farm right outside Concordia Kansas ;)
Terry and Jo said
08:21 PM Sep 24, 2012
sunflwrgirl wrote:
Thank you Ckerr for your clarification.. by the way I grew up on a dairy farm right outside Concordia Kansas ;)
Heh....small world. Back when I drove 18-wheelers, I used to go through Concordia on my way to Norway, Kansas with Anhydrous Ammonia fertilizer.
Terry
sunflwrgirl said
08:38 PM Sep 24, 2012
Lol.. funny how most people say that they went "through" Kansas.. Though I am not thinking to ever go back and stay forever, I do think I look forward to go reminisce around the lakes we used to stay for camping, swimming and fishing as a child. Those days were mostly with my cousins when we stayed but allot fun when a large amount of our families could make it... Good times ;D
My real dream of RVing is that I can as close to water as possible at any given time. I love the water and always have. I love when people post pics of sites they are camping and they show water within the scenery. Heck even a river is good by me.. I will still get in it too ;)
sunflwrgirl said
11:11 PM Sep 24, 2012
RCLVNV, I was re-reading everyones posting and putting together more thoughts on everything.. You had say that you have a family owned business that you are quite fond of.. Hoping you might share the name and where abouts of this great family owned business ;)
Terry and Jo said
04:14 AM Sep 25, 2012
Phyllis,
Just in case you are only looking in without logging in, I've sent you a private message.
Terry
sunflwrgirl said
03:49 PM Sep 25, 2012
Thank you and I have replied to your private message.. ;)
Do a search here http://www.rvtowables.com/findrv/rvsforsale.php
You can enter alot of criteria in their search box and see what comes up. I have found Montana's, Jayco Designers, Excel's, Carriages etc, some newer, some older all in that price range. These are not new, but most have been cared for.
What kind of tow vehicle do you have? Its better to find a 5'er you like, then go buy the truck to match for the size you need F250, 350, 450, MDT, HDT etc. Alot of people get upset when their truck can't pull the trailer through the mountains!
Edit by moderator: Activated link. Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Saturday 22nd of September 2012 12:20:40 PM
I have been researching for weeks now and trying so hard to understand everything as much I can. Im actually more of a hands on than to read only so we are even spending our Saturdays haning around camping world and even the rv lots close by our house. My thing is we want everything to be as best it can be in the beginning so that we don't have "I wish" moments after, that end up costing us so much or making us wish we never did full timing. My husband and I are so excited to live full time as rvers after retirement that its now starting to feel like forever away.. At any rate, I have narrowed it down that we want to stay as much under $20,000 as possible for our future 5th wheel. That being said our biggest and foremost concern is that we can live in it year round. Like making sure we have something that comes with great winterizing. I have been looking into Thor products as that is one that we was told is of high quality for full timing. If anyone can tell us from there experience what brand they feel is best for full timing it would be greatly appreciated.
Phyllis,
With any RV, it does take research to find a good unit that one can use for full-timing. Thor Industries has some good and some not so good. Keystone products such as the Montana have been used by a number of folks here on RV Dreams. On the other hand, some like the Redwood concern me. According to their website and brochures, the Redwood's "drop" frame is only a 10-inch frame.
Cedar Creek by Forest River, Carriage products (now out of business), Open Range, and others all have some of their models that are good for full time use. With all of them, you will need to research and find what is good for full time that matches what you want to do. For instance, if you want to be in cold climates during the winter, look for good insulation R-factors and tank heaters.
However, with your budget of $20,000, I suspect that you will have to limit yourself to used units. We used to have a Salem travel trailer and a Rockwood fifth wheel that would not have been sufficient for full-time living. At least, not for us. Both of those units were bought new and both were over $20,000. What you want to do can probably be done, but to avoid costly mistakes, you really need to do your research.
Good luck.
Terry
Welcome. As always, the advice you have been given above is "spot on". We have been full-timing for almost two years now, and even having had RV's of all types over a 40 year period, felt just what you are feeling. We sold our house,downsized,and did all the things necessary to accomplish our goal, but found it necessary (for us) to break the over-all task,which you correctly say is overwhelming,(I agree), into easily managed parts. The most useful tool, for us, without question,was this forum. I spent almost two years before the move, on it daily. Some of the people who have already answered you here were the most helpful. In time you will see through shared experiences that what you want is doable and reasonably so. I too was consumed with the thought of avoiding missteps.I feel participation in this forum has helped me avoid some obvious mistakes. Knowledge is power as they say. There is a lot of it here. The trick becomes, of course to take a piece at a time,assess your needs,and to the extent possible apply the information offered here to your needs & wishes. The great thing about this place is that while a lot of us have opinions and preferences,we are all genuinely interested in helping. As I age, I find that increasingly difficult to come by. I am glad you have joined us.
Richard
Jim, totally agree with your thoughts, as we do not have our vehicle yet. Our plan has been RV first and truck after.. Our plans however have been to look towards a Diesel F350. I would like that we have a truck that can handle a much higher amount that what we are pulling... Not to mention I am thinking no matter what the F350 should be fine for us at any level we get. I doubt we ever need any bigger than a 350, which to me means we can own this truck forever and ever.. Or least hope that it goes that ways ;D
Again,spot on with what has been said. I have an Open Range and am very pleased with it,however I bought it new in 2011,and had the benefit of a two year warranty.I have had two major repairs,both done to my satisfaction,hassle -free. Neither of them were plumbing issues. That said, I'm active on the owner's forum (a great tool for any brand you consider), and from what I know, any Open Range titled as an '09 would be a very early model, as they are a new company .Given what I know about the company's willingness to fix whatever is needed under the wnt'y, I,d say that previous owner did not care about or was too lazy to get the "fungus" (not) problem fixed and therefore did not take care of the rig, period. You were wise to move on.But shouldn't necessarily eliminate OR from consideration.
See if any of the mobile RV repair people in your area will inspect an RV, for a fee. If not, do an internet search for inspectors. The wisest investment you can make. DO NOT purchase from any dealer or individual who will not allow an inspection. "As is" or not, the value is determined as much by condition as anything else. Bringing an RV in for service, even if you don't full-time yet,(that's a whole different story), is a lot different than bringing in a car. If you buy from a dealer make them do the fixes before you take delivery, do not let them tell you "we'll take care of that under the (whatever) day wn'ty, if they offer one.
As previously stated,you are well supported here. Also,as you have demonstrated, your instinct is always to be followed. Although you may not have the technical knowledge to know what was wrong (few do), your gut told you something was wrong. Always heed that internal alarm!
I don't know where you live, but if there are are true family owned small RV dealers in your area, my experience over 40 years of RV ownership has been to find one and deal with them. Every time I've even attempted to deal with a large dealership, I've caught them trying something I hadn't agreed to and walked away. Twelve years ago,we got lucky. We have a dealer,family owned since 1963,currently run by the founder and his children and their children. Most of their employees have never worked anywhere else. No one leaves, as the founder's daughter is fond of saying .Almost all of their business is word of mouth referral.They have grown to three locations but family is involved in every part of the operation.If a family member doesn't sell you the rig, one will do the finance part for you, or the walk-through,or service,or something. My wife and I operated mom & pop family service businesses our whole lives, so perhaps I'm biased,but I seek out family owned businesses with strong reputations,whenever I can. We sold a 100 year old business to a large corporation who proceeded to run it into the ground only to close it 5 yrs later. You can see why I feel as I do.
Richard
-- Edited by rclvnv on Sunday 23rd of September 2012 11:22:16 AM
That is one thing to be repaired prior to purchase. Washed off? I hardly think so!! Toilet leaks do happen? Not on my rig, and certainly not repaired. I fail to see how a salesman can even offer for sale a mold infested unit. That "nasty stuff" has to be the result of a leak, and that is a deal breaker to me. He needs to strip off the undercover and find the leak. Durn salesmen anyway. RV sales people are somewhat akin to used car salemen, oily and sneaky. There are a few good ones out there, but man, they are thin on the ground.
My sister and brother-in-law have also been looking for an RV. They take me along for advice and it continues to amaze me how underhanded many salesman are.
Thankfully, there are some good ones out there. You need to find a good one and then be willing to pay a little more for a high quality unit. Remember, if a deal sounds too good to be true...it probably is. Before you buy any RV, you should have it thoroughly checked out by a reputable service facility.
Phyllis,
I see that you are quite a ways from Houston. You may want to check out pplmotorhomes.com, though. That might give you an idea of what's out there. I saw several units there from '02 to '06 that were in your price range. And, as you found out, people are usually willing to negotiate. I do believe, though, that units at PPL are consignments. Some salesperson may have to call the owner of the unit and act as the go-between for negotiations.
Welcome to the forum and best of luck in your endeavors!
Vance
Edit by moderator: Activated link. Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Sunday 23rd of September 2012 03:32:32 PM
At any rate, thank you sooooo much for posting. We have definitely made the choice not to purchase this rv and now have no plans to even deal with that person again. What an absolute jerk.. One other things he had say is that they sell used RV's "as is". Im curious if all rv places do that or do they normally give like even a 30 day warranty? At this moment I am thinking that I don't even want to go through camper world at all. Starting to think the smaller businesses and even individual people would be better than to deal with them. Arrrrgghhh I am feeling very frustrated at the moment since we more than let this guy know how much it meant to us to make the best choice and how much a big deal all this is to us. What an ars to really not give a crap and be so dang greedy. He could had made a great sale with us no matter, since we made it very clear we were ready to purchase one, just wanted to make sure it was the right one.. Now he wont make a dime from us and if anyone asks we will be sure to let them know not to work with him..
One last question..Harvey you say that we should have it checked out by a reputable service facility.. How do we do that? I mean we dont have a tow vehicle yet and I am sure we can't trust the people selling it to say it is in great condition. I do wish that we can have them checked out before buying. Heck what I really wish is that one of you all can come with us and spend a good day rv hunting so we can bring one home and feel really good about it.. ;D
Phyllis,
You gotta love it!! As you can see, everyone is stepping up and giving good advice. Good job in walking away from that one coach.
If you are still interested in the Open Range brand name, you might want to check out the Open Range Owner's Forum. (Yep, that's the link to them.) If you do nothing else but go there and read, you will find a lot of information that will be helpful to you. In fact, with any brand that really piques your interest, see if you can find an owner's association with a forum for that brand. Jo and I did that when we were researching the DRV Suites models before we bought ours. (I didn't mention DRV Suites or New Horizons earlier, even though that would be the best full-time rigs, because they are more expensive than you are wanting to spend.)
Now, one caution with owner's forums. It is natural and expected for owners to post questions and complaints on forums about their rigs because they are looking for a solution to a problem. That is good in that it gives you an idea of what might be a problem with a brand. It is bad because it gives the impression that everyone is looking for solutions for problems so it must be a bad brand. That is not necessarily true. There are likely a lot more owners that are NOT posting on forums because they aren't having problems.
Here is the key question for any owner's forums with regards to the "owner's" brand. "If you were in a situation to trade and buy a new RV, would you still consider the brand that you have?" I don't know how many times I asked that question over the two years of research that Jo and I did before buying. You will be surprised by the number of "brand name" owners that will tell you that they would buy the brand again.
You are wise in buying the trailer first and then getting the truck to make sure that the truck will safely handle the trailer. For the most part, the Ford F350's will tow most brands of trailers. Only when one gets into the heavy units like the 38' DRV Suites models and the New Horizons would one need to really look at a larger truck. Our Mobile Suites (DRV Suites model) weighs in at 18,500 lbs of GVWR, so we have a Ford F450 because I am the "King of Overkill." While a truck with single rear wheels will usually be sufficient for, say, the Open Range models, the dual rear wheel trucks will give you more weight capacity and more stable handling, especially when in cross winds and in turns.
Now, if you lived closer to San Antonio and New Braunfels, there would be someone that I could recommend that you contact. In fact, I heard from them about a week ago and they are looking into starting an RV dealership. They were even helpful with us in our research because she was a factory representative for DRV Suites. If you don't mind a drive, let me know and I will get in touch with them. Also, considering that you "might" not mind a drive, keep an eye on the website for Rolling Retreats. They are a Mom and Pop RV dealership for DRV Suites, but they do take in some other brands as trades on occasion. If you've read the RV Dreams forum thread that relates to them, you will see that there are a few very satisfied customers.
Oh, and congratulations on having a "good eye" for the problems. In a way, you might have been lucky. If the dealer had been more diligent and less lazy, they might have "cleaned up" that Open Range and you'd have never known anything was wrong. So, always be observant and keep the "sniffer" going as well.
Terry
I most definitly am going to check into these sites that some of you have given. I woudl think its best to always go through people that others know so well and have been treated kindly. Like I say, Don really messed up with us by acting as greedy as he clearly did..
At any rate, Terry and Jo.. you mention that you have friends that live near San Antonio and New Braunfels. By all means please send them to me for help. We would love that and to drive to San Antonio for sure is not far as we do have very close friends that live there so if we knew we were going to purchase we would make the drive.
Also about our idea range, we are looking for no less than 33 ft but to go 40 I would think would be the limit. We have decided to bump our dollars to $30,000. We would really like to keep our payments less than 300 and that is why I am trying to stay low on the full dollar amount.
Thank you also Terry and Joe for the comment on catching the "fungus". We truly may not know everything on what we are doing, but figure if we take our time to look and see if some looks a lil weird to atleast ask. I figured the wrong person to ask was the salesman but I still wanted to hear what he was gonna say. Suppose it was my own test to him, to that I thank all of you for helping to confirm he was .. we will say.. not a nice person ;p
Oh yes, one the things I had try to ask earlier was, I came across this RV Consumer resources online. I was thinking to purchase but am curious if any of you had seen or purchased yourself. Wondering if this might help me as well..
As far as the Citations. I do like those and love that they are made out of Canada. They would definitely be great for living in fulltime as this is what we are wanting.. I tried to search for another model made out of Canada but was truly hitting road blocks so am assuming there is no others. My next one that I keep coming back to is that Jayvo and the infinities. Dang those are some beautiful homes. If I could get a $50G home down to under $300 monthly payments I would for sure do it ;p
Well, enough babbling this time. You all are so incredibly awesome for helping. One day I hope that I can help someone or should I say many people just as you with all this..
Since you are looking for a full-time coach, I'd suggest that you stick with high-end coaches, even though they will be a few years old. Personally, if I was looking for a 5'er, I'd stick to a Mobile Suites or an Elite Suites. Unfortunately, you'll probably need more than an F350 for one.
You might want to consider a motor home and toad. The total cost will probably be the same, the fuel use going down the road will be the same, but the fuel use running around can be quite a bit less. Remember that the truck you use to pull your 5'er is also your daily driver. Just a thought.
PM me if you would like a summary of our two-year research into a full-time coach.
Also something I had sent earlier but did not go through is that we have come to the conclusion to purchase in November as my husband comes out the field. Seems to us it is the wiser of our choices for our future but also does cause a crunch on things. As we have come to this conclusion is when it gave me a much clearer picture of having to let go of our sentimentals. That has been a lil hard on me but luckily we have three beautiful children that understand and also see these items as sentimentals as well so I am confident they will be on good hands and hopefully passed down to their children.
As for the Rolling Retreats site.. absolutely gorgeous! Though I just dont see that happening unless it is a much older unit.. ;)
Phyllis,
I can't guarantee anything as I've not yet contacted our Texas friend. However, I will send her an e-mail this evening to see if she would be willing to help you. At the moment, I doubt that they have a dealership yet, but they may have an idea of where one could find a good unit. Once I find out, I'll send you a private message.
November? I really caution against that, at least for the "definite" planning. That hardly gives one the time to find a really good unit for the price you have set for yourself. As for Rolling Retreats, I don't expect for you to consider one of the DRV units, but Alicia and Slade do get the occasional very nice SOB (Some Other Brand) in as a trade. Those are usually at the bottom of their Inventory list on their website.
I would like to address one of kb0zke's comments. With all due respect to him as he is a very knowledgeable person, I don't agree with the idea that if an owner's forum has a lot of comments about "taking it to the factory" for repair as a bad omen. In fact, I feel that it is just the opposite. Even on the forums for the DRV Suites (Mobile Suites and Elite Suites), there is a lot of agreement that the factory is the BEST place to take one for repair. Personally, I would have greater trust in the factory wanting to keep a customer happy by doing the job right. Sadly, dealerships do not have the same philosophy. Let me explain.
Let's say that Terry's RV's is in business with 4 or 5 different name brands, one of which is a top of the line product. With regards to most RV dealerships that I know of, Terry would likely sell a LOT more of the lower priced brands, thus getting their cash flow through multiple sales and repairs. The top of the line brand units will likely not be sold as much because of price, thus every one that is in stock is costing the dealership interest on his business loans. With multiple lower priced RV's being repaired, the dealership may not be so quick to "do the job right" on any of them, including the top of the line brand, partly because of he cost and accrued interest on those higher dollar units.
Even with the dealerships that sell DRV Suites products, one hears of a dealer that doesn't want to work on a unit that the dealership didn't sell. Sadly, that goes on with every brand and most dealerships. So, if one is 2000 miles from one's own dealer, one is taking a chance on the quality of the repairs being made on one's unit.
Terry
I think that consignment units are only checked out/repaired to the extent the seller wants them to. My experience with consignments is limited to a boat. The owners had repairs done and then let the dealer sell it for them. Dealer was the go-between for price negotiations. It was up to me to take it for a sea trial (test drive) and inspect it. As it turned out, I got a good deal and a good boat. As with any other used coach, it will be up to you to have it inspected and factor any repairs into the offer. This might be difficult with a long distance purchase.
Good luck and like they said, take your time looking.
Vance
At any rate, I do believe to that the factory would do a much better job at fixing things also. They want us to all tell each other to come to them as well as us to return for a new rv later.
The PPL site does seem like a great place to go and really should be able to drive away with a nice home. Been playing in there allot and I do like many of them. However can someone please explain more of this "Earnest money deposit". Is that money put into your purchase or is it just given to them? To me if you are doing a loan then clearly you are wanting to purchase the item.
Last does anyone know of places in lower California that may be good, since we actually are close to there as well living in El Paso. Or I even noticed that Arizona is pretty close as well, considering if we was going to drive to Houston. Like I was in Phoenix a couple weekends ago and it appeared to me that Arizona is the land of rv's. All I could think of when leaving the area was how jealous I was of everyone. lol
I then go home go on line and do a national search and find comparable units and price them.........I have saved better than 20 k just by spending 600 on a plane ticket..........warranties on used units from most dealers are short and not worth paying the sales commission to get it.........look over Howards Warranty packages for units , these are a better deal when you figure in the extra a dealer will charge in commission as to saving it and putting it into an outside warranty package that will cover most repairs for a year or better.
I have had RV servicers go look at coaches I've looked at online That I was serious about and paid them to do a proxy inspection for me, I have had people I have known and done it for others , go and look at something for me , take pictures and go through it because they where close or traveling through that area clear across the country.........
Remember: This is a buyers market at the moment, there are alot of repo's out here....distress sales......Florida , texas , Arz, Kentucky are flooded with these units and are trying to unload them.....
When someone shows you list price paperwork you might ask to see the original bill of sale.......you would be amazed to find that some Coaches list at 500 - 600 k and sell new for 50 - 100 k less.
Never Buy any used unit for very much more than NADA Wholesale price unless its perfectly what you wanted............Remember , you really dont need your unit til a day or 2 before you leave.....and the best deals seem to come along right after you buy yours.......Go Slow shop long and hard.......Dreaming of the perfect unit is part of looking for it!!!!!!!!!!
As far as traveling all over to purchase an Rv it is really not so easy for us. Just that if we was going to do it might as well try to make it as close as possible or least around family. Living here in El Paso can be good in the sense that this is a "poor" area which helps make prices better, but I fear that also means quality as well.
Also you say about the Foreclosed rv's.. I seriously have been trying to go that route this whole time. Not having any luck at all figuring out the best place to look. I would by far be most interested in a foreclosed rv. If you happen to know of a couple sites to help me down that path. ;)
Phyllis,
If I remember correctly from our days of buying homes, "earnest money" is money deposited to show that one is serious about the purchase of some form of property. In some cases, if one does NOT buy that property, they may lose their earnest money. If one buys the property, the earnest money should be a part of the purchase price.
Not sure what you mean about being in Southern California and Arizona. Are you considering living in those areas or are you going to still be traveling regularly? The reason I ask is that in some states, residency depends on how long one is in one place in the state and some other factors like employment. I would research that aspect pretty well as one wouldn't want to establish "domicile residency" in a state like South Dakota only to lose that when one accidently gets into a situation of becoming a resident elsewhere.
Honestly, I have no idea of all the state requirements on establishing residency, so I'm just pointing out something to research. It is likely that some of the other participants on the forums can give you much better information. One thing that will be a factor with California is that their vehicle standards are much more stringent than other states.
Terry
So then the earnest money is always placed to the item being purchased. Not just money for their finance office to have...
Heh....small world. Back when I drove 18-wheelers, I used to go through Concordia on my way to Norway, Kansas with Anhydrous Ammonia fertilizer.
Terry
My real dream of RVing is that I can as close to water as possible at any given time. I love the water and always have. I love when people post pics of sites they are camping and they show water within the scenery. Heck even a river is good by me.. I will still get in it too ;)
Phyllis,
Just in case you are only looking in without logging in, I've sent you a private message.
Terry