-- Edited by patoneill on Thursday 20th of September 2012 04:15:22 PM
FastEagle said
07:49 PM Sep 17, 2012
patoneill wrote:
We have a truck F-350 2012 CC SRW 4x4. The Ford towing guide says that max towing is 15.700. Our hitch is a 16K reese.
Our current RV (a Jayco eagle) is way below our limit.
The thing is... we want to change it. The eagle is our first one... and we found out this was not the one... that’s OK, we knew it but had to start our learning somewhere.
What we are looking at is a Forest River Cedar Creek. Maybe we’ll end up with something else. But the question will always be the same... do we have enough truck? unlike our current RV, our truck was a major expense and we are still paying for it. We plan to have it paid up fast but still would like to keep it (we like it).
The 5th wheels we are looking at has a GVWR of 15.400 but that includes 4311 of cargo (4300 is huge!!!).
We want to fulltime, but I do not imagine accumulating 4300 lbs of stuff!!! We are used to live with a small footprint. We do not have books, papers, DVDs... I can cook anything with 3 pans, a BBQ and a small crockpot... we don’t need tons of clothes/shoes... and we don’t stash more than few days of groceries.
However, I would guess that extra options on the rig will take from this 4300.
Thoughts? advices? comments? anything will be appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Patricia
PS: If you have other information to share about Cedar Creek, my ears are open.
The reference below is the government regulation for the tires/rims on your truck & trailer. More important , it also has the newest government regulations for your trailer’s cargo. Many people do not know about it or how to find it
I am presuming that by "CC" you mean that it is a crew cab pickup, one with four full sized doors. If not, let me know and I will adjust some information for you.
With your truck in mind, I looked at the 2012 Ford Superduty brochure and here is what I found:
GVWR (Gross Vehicular Weight Rating) for the truck can be anywhere from 10,000 lbs to 11,500 lbs. So, you will need to check with your dealer and let them look at the "data plate" on the door or door post on the driver's side to get the actual GVWR. GVWR is the maximum that your truck is supposed to weigh when it is full of fuel, cargo, passengers and the pin weight for the fifth wheel. That is usually considered to be cargo weight. You want your truck to never be over on GVWR as well as never over on the capacity of the tires.
Never go by towing weight for a trailer, but by GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicular Weight), which is the total weight of the loaded trailer and the loaded truck combined.
GCVW for your truck is 23,500 lbs. Now, I should mention that a lot of RV'ers, myself included, prefer to have a "weight cushion" in that the total weight of our truck and trailer is less than the GCVW by about 15% to 20%. However, for safety sake, never exceed the GCVW for the truck, which is the 23,500 lbs. (By comparison, a dually's GCVW for the same year truck, crew cab, F350, and 4WD would be 30,000 lbs.)
Now, if the Cedar Creek you are looking at is 15,400 lbs, and if you happened to load it to that weight with "stuff" and options on the trailer, you would only have roughly 8100 pounds that your truck could weigh and be right at your GCVW. I suggest that you go have your truck weighed sometime after you've filled it with fuel to see what your weight would be prior to loading in cargo. (When you do that, also have along those that will be traveling with you.) Looking above, you can see that the 8100 lbs would be less than the GVWR rated for the truck. If your truck's weight would be heavier, you would certainly have to reduce weight in the trailer.
Also, keep in mind that when towing, you will want to take it easy since a single rear wheeled truck does not have the stability in handling and cornering that a dual rear wheeled truck would have.
Hope this helps. If you need more information, be sure and ask more questions.
Terry
53 Merc said
01:43 PM Sep 18, 2012
Patricia, this is one of those "methinks you are borrowing difficulty" moments. Take a drive around any camground in the US, looking at RVs and the accompanying tow vehicles. You will see far more SRW F-350s and large fivers parked in the same site. The 350/3500 series of TVs are prevalent and they tow a wide range of RVs. All the hoo-hah about weight limits and towing limits are just that. It is all about load range, care in selecting and loading your combination. There has been no documented instance of "overweight" citations or such. With all that said, I would hesitate before hooking up a super-heavy RV (like a Mobile Suites or New Horizon) to a 350/3500, but within reason I might do it anyway. As you see in my sig line, we tow pretty heavy with a 250. Do I wish I had more truck? YOu betcha. Am I gonna run out and buy one? No. We have made three trips to Oregon, two to Indiana, four or five to Colorado, lots of runs around Texas and Louisiana and Oklahoma. Probably something on the order of 35K miles. Just a month or so ago, had my first experience with road service. Had a flat on the pickup. The very first tire repair in all that miles. Never a problem with engine or transmission. It is realy all about your comfort level in your selections. Use reasonable caution, but don't get carried away about a few or few hundred pounds over the so-called "limits". OK, I have my fire retardent Nomex on now.
Terry and Jo said
07:22 PM Sep 18, 2012
With all due respect to 53Merc (Ken), he is a very knowledgeable gentleman. With respect to matching a truck and a trailer, towing is just part of the situation. There is also the need for stopping and handling in side winds and when meeting trucks and busses on two-lane roads. If this is your first experience with towing a high profile trailer, please keep that in mind. It is very likely that Ken has the experience of when to be really cautious with his rig.
While they are heavier units, I recall a gentleman with a Ford F350 DRW and a Mobile Suites telling of a circumstance where he was approaching a traffic light when it turned red on him. He had plenty of room in normal circumstances, but the streets were lightly covered with water from a rain shower. Even with enough distance to stop, he was unable to get stopped and all that saved him was that the traffic in the cross-traffic lanes saw him coming and waited. He escaped any damages to any vehicle or his trailer. However, he told us that he would never use a 350/3500 series truck again with that size of trailer. He upgraded to an MDT.
While your truck may very well be suitable for the trailer you have in mind, never take anything for granted. I will freely admit that I am one for overkill when it comes to trucks and trailers. We have an F450, and I would tow nothing bigger in the way of a trailer than what we own. In spite of the fact that I was a professional driver with both bobtail trucks and 18-wheelers, I would be comfortable with nothing less than what we now own.
When I used to drive 18-wheelers, the drivers I knew lived by a simple idea. If one ever gets too comfortable with driving their trucks, that is when overconfidence kicks in and trouble is just around the corner. Always have the highest respect for your rig, and it never even hurts to have just a wee bit of fear of that rig. That helps with playing it safe.
As far as getting your truck weighed, look around there in Arizona (I presume that is where you are) and see if there are any livestock feed stores in your area. A lot of them will have scales large enough for semi-truck & trailers even and most are friendly enough to allow you to weigh, possibly for free. If farming is done in your area, also look for grain elevators. Failing that, a number of truck stops have CAT scales, but if you go that route, take a long stick like a broom handle so you can reach the button from your pickup. Those buttons are usually higher up to benefit the 18-wheelers.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Tuesday 18th of September 2012 07:26:54 PM
53 Merc said
01:47 PM Sep 19, 2012
Once again, I rise to point out weight police often describe events with no provenance. I have visited with my insurance agent about the issue of weight vs. claims. She could not point out any clause about weight. Did find cautions about reasonable and prudent operation. Maybe that is what is mentioned by JanAlan. In reference to Terry's comments, my first truck driving experience was in the oil fields and the first truck weighed in excess of 125K. Every move was supposed to be permitted. Due to construction one time, I had to drive through downtown Odessa, TX. Had to weave around all the suspended traffic signals. As I said, do I wish I had more truck? Yep. But, do I feel unsafe with what I have, nosir. I spent a great portion of my life in Safety. I tend to look for what ifs? If I can find nothing to prevent me towing as I do, it must not be a problem. As far as Terry's comment about the guy that could not stop his rig because of wet streets, I would suggest he did not have his brake controller set properly. The truck is not responsible to stop the trailer. The truck stops the truck, the trailer brakes stop the trailer. If the guy says he went through a traffic signal because he could not stop, he certainly needs to revisit his dealer for instructions on how to set up his controller. With an incorrect controller set up, jack-knifing the rig is a distinct possibility. On my rig, when I apply the foot brake, I feel the trailer brakes engage first. And, the harder I press the pedal, the more aggressive the trailer brakes are. OK, I am done with this.
Terry and Jo said
02:27 AM Sep 20, 2012
Ken,
Thanks for explaining your experience as it verifies the point I made in the first paragraph about you having the experience to be able to safely tow a trailer, even if the weights aren't "just right." I've never questioned your abilities.
And yes, it might well be that the individual on wet roads didn't have his brake controller and trailer synchronized right. However, I failed to point out that new RV'ers might not know how to accomplish that synchronization.
I recently read a forum somewhere in which they explained that it was a good idea to "bleed" the brakes on a new trailer to insure that fluid levels would be right. Many new RV'ers may not know of that either.
If I am a member of the "weight police" because I want new RV'ers to be safe, then I gladly accept that dubious title. But, by the same token, while I feel comfortable with me towing our heavy trailer, I'm not sure how comfortable Jo would be if she had to tow it in difficult places.
Oh, and I'll bet there were a few "choice words" as you tried to maneuver around those suspended traffic lights. Many here may not know how big oilfield equipment gets, but I'm certainly familiar with it, even though I never hauled the stuff.
Kudos, my friend.
Terry
FastEagle said
04:02 AM Sep 20, 2012
A few years ago we quit full time traveling and took up residence in a nice little senior retired community here in SC. When I foolishly decided to register my truck in SC I quickly found out just how much different a state’s laws could be from another state‘s. To legally tow my 5er in SC with my SC tags my truck has to be registered showing it’s GCWR. They put it right on the registration. SC has an active state DOT patrol. They carry individual weight scales to weigh each wheel position. If stopped by one of those DOT patrol cars and found to be over the registered GCWR, part of you rig is going to stay right there until it’s GCWR matches up with or is lower than the GCWR on the tow vehicle‘s registration.
-- Edited by patoneill on Thursday 20th of September 2012 04:15:22 PM
Pat,
I am presuming that by "CC" you mean that it is a crew cab pickup, one with four full sized doors. If not, let me know and I will adjust some information for you.
With your truck in mind, I looked at the 2012 Ford Superduty brochure and here is what I found:
GVWR (Gross Vehicular Weight Rating) for the truck can be anywhere from 10,000 lbs to 11,500 lbs. So, you will need to check with your dealer and let them look at the "data plate" on the door or door post on the driver's side to get the actual GVWR. GVWR is the maximum that your truck is supposed to weigh when it is full of fuel, cargo, passengers and the pin weight for the fifth wheel. That is usually considered to be cargo weight. You want your truck to never be over on GVWR as well as never over on the capacity of the tires.
Never go by towing weight for a trailer, but by GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicular Weight), which is the total weight of the loaded trailer and the loaded truck combined.
GCVW for your truck is 23,500 lbs. Now, I should mention that a lot of RV'ers, myself included, prefer to have a "weight cushion" in that the total weight of our truck and trailer is less than the GCVW by about 15% to 20%. However, for safety sake, never exceed the GCVW for the truck, which is the 23,500 lbs. (By comparison, a dually's GCVW for the same year truck, crew cab, F350, and 4WD would be 30,000 lbs.)
Now, if the Cedar Creek you are looking at is 15,400 lbs, and if you happened to load it to that weight with "stuff" and options on the trailer, you would only have roughly 8100 pounds that your truck could weigh and be right at your GCVW. I suggest that you go have your truck weighed sometime after you've filled it with fuel to see what your weight would be prior to loading in cargo. (When you do that, also have along those that will be traveling with you.) Looking above, you can see that the 8100 lbs would be less than the GVWR rated for the truck. If your truck's weight would be heavier, you would certainly have to reduce weight in the trailer.
Also, keep in mind that when towing, you will want to take it easy since a single rear wheeled truck does not have the stability in handling and cornering that a dual rear wheeled truck would have.
Hope this helps. If you need more information, be sure and ask more questions.
Terry
With all that said, I would hesitate before hooking up a super-heavy RV (like a Mobile Suites or New Horizon) to a 350/3500, but within reason I might do it anyway. As you see in my sig line, we tow pretty heavy with a 250. Do I wish I had more truck? YOu betcha. Am I gonna run out and buy one? No. We have made three trips to Oregon, two to Indiana, four or five to Colorado, lots of runs around Texas and Louisiana and Oklahoma. Probably something on the order of 35K miles.
Just a month or so ago, had my first experience with road service. Had a flat on the pickup. The very first tire repair in all that miles. Never a problem with engine or transmission.
It is realy all about your comfort level in your selections. Use reasonable caution, but don't get carried away about a few or few hundred pounds over the so-called "limits".
OK, I have my fire retardent Nomex on now.
With all due respect to 53Merc (Ken), he is a very knowledgeable gentleman. With respect to matching a truck and a trailer, towing is just part of the situation. There is also the need for stopping and handling in side winds and when meeting trucks and busses on two-lane roads. If this is your first experience with towing a high profile trailer, please keep that in mind. It is very likely that Ken has the experience of when to be really cautious with his rig.
While they are heavier units, I recall a gentleman with a Ford F350 DRW and a Mobile Suites telling of a circumstance where he was approaching a traffic light when it turned red on him. He had plenty of room in normal circumstances, but the streets were lightly covered with water from a rain shower. Even with enough distance to stop, he was unable to get stopped and all that saved him was that the traffic in the cross-traffic lanes saw him coming and waited. He escaped any damages to any vehicle or his trailer. However, he told us that he would never use a 350/3500 series truck again with that size of trailer. He upgraded to an MDT.
While your truck may very well be suitable for the trailer you have in mind, never take anything for granted. I will freely admit that I am one for overkill when it comes to trucks and trailers. We have an F450, and I would tow nothing bigger in the way of a trailer than what we own. In spite of the fact that I was a professional driver with both bobtail trucks and 18-wheelers, I would be comfortable with nothing less than what we now own.
When I used to drive 18-wheelers, the drivers I knew lived by a simple idea. If one ever gets too comfortable with driving their trucks, that is when overconfidence kicks in and trouble is just around the corner. Always have the highest respect for your rig, and it never even hurts to have just a wee bit of fear of that rig. That helps with playing it safe.
As far as getting your truck weighed, look around there in Arizona (I presume that is where you are) and see if there are any livestock feed stores in your area. A lot of them will have scales large enough for semi-truck & trailers even and most are friendly enough to allow you to weigh, possibly for free. If farming is done in your area, also look for grain elevators. Failing that, a number of truck stops have CAT scales, but if you go that route, take a long stick like a broom handle so you can reach the button from your pickup. Those buttons are usually higher up to benefit the 18-wheelers.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Tuesday 18th of September 2012 07:26:54 PM
In reference to Terry's comments, my first truck driving experience was in the oil fields and the first truck weighed in excess of 125K. Every move was supposed to be permitted. Due to construction one time, I had to drive through downtown Odessa, TX. Had to weave around all the suspended traffic signals.
As I said, do I wish I had more truck? Yep. But, do I feel unsafe with what I have, nosir. I spent a great portion of my life in Safety. I tend to look for what ifs? If I can find nothing to prevent me towing as I do, it must not be a problem.
As far as Terry's comment about the guy that could not stop his rig because of wet streets, I would suggest he did not have his brake controller set properly. The truck is not responsible to stop the trailer. The truck stops the truck, the trailer brakes stop the trailer. If the guy says he went through a traffic signal because he could not stop, he certainly needs to revisit his dealer for instructions on how to set up his controller. With an incorrect controller set up, jack-knifing the rig is a distinct possibility. On my rig, when I apply the foot brake, I feel the trailer brakes engage first. And, the harder I press the pedal, the more aggressive the trailer brakes are. OK, I am done with this.
Ken,
Thanks for explaining your experience as it verifies the point I made in the first paragraph about you having the experience to be able to safely tow a trailer, even if the weights aren't "just right." I've never questioned your abilities.
And yes, it might well be that the individual on wet roads didn't have his brake controller and trailer synchronized right. However, I failed to point out that new RV'ers might not know how to accomplish that synchronization.
I recently read a forum somewhere in which they explained that it was a good idea to "bleed" the brakes on a new trailer to insure that fluid levels would be right. Many new RV'ers may not know of that either.
If I am a member of the "weight police" because I want new RV'ers to be safe, then I gladly accept that dubious title. But, by the same token, while I feel comfortable with me towing our heavy trailer, I'm not sure how comfortable Jo would be if she had to tow it in difficult places.
Oh, and I'll bet there were a few "choice words" as you tried to maneuver around those suspended traffic lights. Many here may not know how big oilfield equipment gets, but I'm certainly familiar with it, even though I never hauled the stuff.
Kudos, my friend.
Terry
FastEagle