Got a 2013 Chevy 3500HD diesel/allison on a railcar headed this way. Scoping out misc accessories but appears a little to early for the aftermarket boys to have goodies on the shelf yet.
Still deciding on a 5th wheel hitch but am leaning towards a Reese Pro Series 20,000# unit to haul my 3750FL, figure abt 15,000 - 16,000# after moma loads up kichen and pantry. I'll post pictures when we pick it up.
Bill and Linda said
11:57 PM Sep 1, 2012
Well, we all want toys I suppose, but after a modest 6,200 towing miles, including a number of mountains from North Carolina up to and into the Black Hills of South Dakota, you really don’t need any after-market power or braking upgrades.
The exhaust brake, integrated extreamly well with the Allision, is especially impressive.I’ve done some extended 6% grades with the 5er in tow and never touch the foot brake.Going up was just as easy with a lot of throttle remaining. It will go up as fast as you want to burn diesel.
Had zero issues with my 2006, 3500 Duramax / Allison product towing the same rig, but this truck is a definite step-up in power, ride and performance.Lots to spare and the truck “drives” the trailer extremely well.Never had a question who was in charge and my rig, fully loaded for extended travel, is quite a bit heaver than yours.
You should be pleased.Enjoy the new toy.
Bill
Bill and Linda said
11:04 AM Sep 2, 2012
CaptainRandy wrote:
Bill
What brand of air ride do you have installed?
Hi Randy:
We have the Air Lift “Load Lifter 5000” w\ the wireless remote.Works fine and has two presets and that is convenient for hitched and un-hitched load conditions. It is a specific kit for the Chevy / GM 3500HD truck. (Works on the 2500HD as well.)
You didn’t ask but I will advise you really don’t “need” air springs with the 3500HD truck.It does not “squat” at all with the air bags deflated and the 5er attached, a full 60 gallon aux fuel tank, the hauler bed and tools.(Yes, we’re within the truck’s limits.)However, I put them on mainly because it was much easier when the bed was off and I thought they might be needed.They really aren’t – truck runs spot on level fully loaded.GM did a nice job with the new suspension system.That said, they do give me some serious hitch height adjustment when I pull different utility trailers at times. Sometimes those trailer hitches are pretty low and I can raise the truck receiver hitch if I need to.
Would I put them on knowing what I know now?Yea, we all love our toys, even the ones we don’t really need but are nice to have.
Bill
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Sunday 2nd of September 2012 11:22:56 AM
canuck said
03:35 PM Sep 2, 2012
Congrats Randy!
I can't order mine until the spring of '13. I will be going GM but I still can't decide on the Chev. or GMC. I've always leaned toward GMC but I love the front end of the HD Chevy (all that chrome!). What made you go with the Chev over the GMC or was it Chevy without question with you?
CaptainRandy said
03:44 PM Sep 2, 2012
My dad was always a Chevy man so I guess I'm following his footsteps, I could hav gone with the GMC as well, better resale value for sure.
CaptainRandy said
03:46 PM Sep 2, 2012
Bill
What brand of air ride do you have installed?
igotjam said
07:20 PM Sep 24, 2012
Having just gone throught the new truck stuff what I found was GM is 59-60" top of box to ground. Dodge 58-59" and Ford was 54". Sitting level my Escalade is 58" to the ground so I had to get a Ford. (the comparison was for 3500/350 series 4wd Dually) What I looked at were 2012 models in dealers lot. The truck suspension would sink a little under load but with the Ford, I pull level. Was quoted $3000 to properly raise my Escalade to tow level with the Dodge/GM.
-- Edited by igotjam on Monday 24th of September 2012 07:24:08 PM
Rob_Fla said
08:23 PM Sep 24, 2012
We got a 2012 GMC 3500HD DRW 4x4 a few months ago, it has been great.
We are pulling our Jayco Pinnacle at 40' 4" and a loaded weight of 15,200.
Like Bill said, no mods needed, pulling power is great and going downhill the Exhaust Brake and Allison take care of the load with no problem.
-- Edited by Rob_Fla on Monday 24th of September 2012 08:24:15 PM
cep1 said
10:18 PM Sep 24, 2012
Bill,
I noticed you have a 2012 Chevy 3500 DRW and KZ Escalade...I am trying to get a similar truck but they are too tall for my 2006 36 KSB KZ Excalade. It is only 57" tall, from the fiberglass to ground. Are you able to two level with this combination with 6" clearance?
Chris
Bill and Linda said
12:36 AM Sep 25, 2012
cep1 wrote:
Bill,
I noticed you have a 2012 Chevy 3500 DRW and KZ Escalade...I am trying to get a similar truck but they are too tall for my 2006 36 KSB KZ Excalade. It is only 57" tall, from the fiberglass to ground. Are you able to two level with this combination with 6" clearance?
Chris
Hi Chris:
Welcome to the forum.
Yes, I can level the rig but, and here’s the rub, nothing I have is “standard.”
The 3500HD has an RV hauler bed on it from Classy Chassis so I have lots of clearance as I don’t have a pickup bed.Just lots of storage space and very low rails.But keep in mind; you will have these “pickup truck” bed clearances issues with a Chevy or a Ford.Doesn’t matter.From 2011 on they are all taller.My 2006 3500 4WDhad 8” of clearance with the trailer.But you can’t get that from a 2011+.Note also the next paragraph; the trailer was “raised” as well.
The 36KSB is raised 3” from “stock.”That was a factory option.However, all is not lost on that issue.Raising the trailer is no big deal.Take it to MOR/ryde in Elkhart, IN and they can do the raising the right way.Not a problem.There are a couple of other suggestions I can make if you like while you’re there.
In the case of the truck, I have no idea if you are looking to get a really good rig set up for full-timing or extending timing, or you’re just not ready to invest a bit more money to, in so many words, build yourself a great tow truck beyond stock.
The Chevy 3500HD is a great choice for the 36KSB.Weights are good all around.The truck stops the trailer really well, good control, lots of power and the exhaust (turbo) brake coupled with the Allison continues to impress me. Did a 9 mile 8%+ grade down into Utah from Yellowstone and hardly touched the brakes.Didn’t even get warm.
If you want more info I would be pleased to provide it.What I’ve done and how I did it. I've had the pleasure of helping a few with these kinds of "opportunities."
BTW, we still love the Escalade.It’s been to Alaska and the Canadian NWT and still does a very good job for us.But we have added a few things from when it left Shipshewana.
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Tuesday 25th of September 2012 12:14:11 PM
cep1 said
03:15 PM Sep 25, 2012
Thanks Bill and all for responses.
Let me start with a quick summary. We are just starting out in the RV world. We still work, but have plans to head out this January. Our plan is to go full time - already sold the house and everything in it and am living in the 5th wheel. We will travel the SW in cold months and N & NW in warm months. We will also workamp as needed to keep funds in the bank.
We started with a 35' gas class A, but quickly found out it would not do hills like we wanted. Traded in the class A for this 06' Escalade a few months ago. It is a stock '06 without the 3" rise Bill has, but does have MOR/Ryde. I like the idea of MOR/Ryde raising the 5th, but have no way to get it there...
We are now looking at truck, and really like the Duramax/Allison combo but found the height problem. Next, we looked at the RAM 3500 Cumming with the new transmission RAM cloned the Allison. This too was too high, however a friend told me that his RAM 3500 squats 8-10" when he lowers his 5th toy-hauler. Anyone else experience this much squat?
We have also looked at the 5th wheel type truck beds by Herrin Haulers, but they cost $6,000 on top of the cost of the truck.
Lastly, we are looking at the Ford F-450 with the 6.7 engine. The new engine seems to not have all the problems of the prior two.
Our goal is to find the truck that will work without it costing way too much. The Chevy is great, but when you add the bed, the cost will be the highest of the three. The RAM may work if it squats 6". The Ford will work standard, no mods, but they are the second high cost of the three.
We too love the Escalade...seems to have all we were looking for. We replaced the tube TV with a 42" LCD, just installed a set of cloth washer/dryer, have new slide awning on order - making it our own...
igotjam said
03:32 PM Sep 25, 2012
Chris & Leslie Had both the F-450 and F-350. The F-450 turns sharper (a real bonus) Has bigger brakes and higher rear gear (You don't need that and it uses more fuel). If you are looking at 2012s the 350 has enough capacity to easily haul your escalade and is cheaper. Not sure exactly your situation but for 2012 the 450 is overkill. (not so if it was 2008/2010)
Racerguy said
03:45 PM Sep 25, 2012
Towed perfectly level. I beat the h*** out of myself measuring the height of the truck bed compared to the height of the 5th wheel hitch area(truck was in different place than trailer).Once the two were in the same place I hooked up and never looked back. Can't explain it but then Geometry was never my strong suit :).Service manager kept telling me not to worry and he ended up being right.
-- Edited by Racerguy on Tuesday 25th of September 2012 04:28:57 PM
Bill and Linda said
03:52 PM Sep 25, 2012
cep1 wrote:
Thanks Bill and all for responses.
Let me start with a quick summary. We are just starting out in the RV world. We still work, but have plans to head out this January. Our plan is to go full time - already sold the house and everything in it and am living in the 5th wheel. We will travel the SW in cold months and N & NW in warm months. We will also workamp as needed to keep funds in the bank.
We started with a 35' gas class A, but quickly found out it would not do hills like we wanted. Traded in the class A for this 06' Escalade a few months ago. It is a stock '06 without the 3" rise Bill has, but does have MOR/Ryde. I like the idea of MOR/Ryde raising the 5th, but have no way to get it there...
We are now looking at truck, and really like the Duramax/Allison combo but found the height problem. Next, we looked at the RAM 3500 Cumming with the new transmission RAM cloned the Allison. This too was too high, however a friend told me that his RAM 3500 squats 8-10" when he lowers his 5th toy-hauler. Anyone else experience this much squat?
We have also looked at the 5th wheel type truck beds by Herrin Haulers, but they cost $6,000 on top of the cost of the truck.
Lastly, we are looking at the Ford F-450 with the 6.7 engine. The new engine seems to not have all the problems of the prior two.
Our goal is to find the truck that will work without it costing way too much. The Chevy is great, but when you add the bed, the cost will be the highest of the three. The RAM may work if it squats 6". The Ford will work standard, no mods, but they are the second high cost of the three.
We too love the Escalade...seems to have all we were looking for. We replaced the tube TV with a 42" LCD, just installed a set of cloth washer/dryer, have new slide awning on order - making it our own...
Chris:
‘Couple of comments:If you have the MOR/ryde you probably have the RL system.It is very good, but if you can ever swing putting a MOR/ryde Independent Suspension (IS) on the trailer you will be surprised at how well it works.Got a lot of miles of experience with it to base those comments on.The MOR/ryde “raise” will not cost you $3,000 based on my experience there.
To the truck – IMO, don’t count on “truck squat” to get you the clearance you need.Here’s what I would do believe it or not based on experience and the criteria you indicated which includes$$’s – I would look around hard for a 2006 Chevy 3500 DRW truck. (The '06 had the 6 speed Allision and that would be nice.) That’s the last one which was the lowest of the three bed height wise and has all the good things – Allison – Duramax – and will handle the Escalade fine.I have some 65,000 towing miles with a 2006 including Alaska and the Canadian NWT to back that up.I had 8”+ of bedrail clearance. Without the 3” lift you will have a bit less, but it will work and, if you want a bit more you can get a quote from MOR/ryde about the lift.Send me a PM if you want more info.
This suggestion sort of gets you in the game without taking as much of a chance on some other earlier vintage engines and transmissions some of which have been known to exhibit “issues” and addresses the $$$ issues I think.
Hope this perspective helps a bit for your thoughts.
Bill
Terry and Jo said
04:42 PM Sep 25, 2012
Just to chime in on a couple of things. Bill is right in that the "squat" factor isn't really anything to count on. After all, when the springs allow squat on the height of the truck, it also lowers the nose of the fifth wheel, thus no difference in height. It might change a wee bit on "angle," but not on height.
In reference to Igotjam's comment about the turning radius on the F450, I can vouch for that. We used to have a Ford F250 Club Cab with a short bed and our Ford F450 with a long bed and full four doors turns in the same radius as the F250. Now, with regards to that, if the F450 interests you, look into that to be sure that the new F450's still have that feature. We have a 2008 F450, which has the 19.5" wheels, so it has the better turning radius. The newer F450's (2011 and 2012) have had their wheel size reduced to 17" instead of the 19.5". While I don't know for sure, I was thinking that the front clearance with the bigger wheels helped create the capability of the better turning radius.
Igotjam's comment about the rear differential is right as well. A lower gear ratio (higher ratio number) will give better pulling power, but at the expense of fuel economy. Unless you plan on doing a lot of mountains and steeper grades, the low gear ratio is not really necessary. Even in the mountains, you might have a longer pull at lower speeds on the grades.
Terry
cep1 said
05:52 PM Sep 25, 2012
Thanks for the responses...
For the 2006 chevy, did you add any exhaust brakes or add-ons? I am not used to mountain climbing, so want to make sure we are safe going down the hill.
The Ford is a simply solution, but the cost is high to get the 6.7 engine and agree the F350 is right way to go, but need a 2011-13 for the motor.
cep1 said
06:49 PM Sep 25, 2012
...found a 2006 chevy 3500, but it measures 58", the same height as my 5th - no 6" clearance between truck and fiberglass.
Racerguy said
09:35 PM Sep 25, 2012
I had an 08 Dodge Dually 4x4 and a 39 foot Ceder Creek 5th wheel.I changed nothing and it towed perfectly level with 6 inches clearance. I did the measurements the same as you and ended up worrying about nothing.
cep1 said
10:23 PM Sep 25, 2012
how much of an angle did you tow...how far off level were you?
Bill and Linda said
11:39 PM Sep 25, 2012
cep1 wrote:
Thanks for the responses...
For the 2006 chevy, did you add any exhaust brakes or add-ons? I am not used to mountain climbing, so want to make sure we are safe going down the hill.
The Ford is a simply solution, but the cost is high to get the 6.7 engine and agree the F350 is right way to go, but need a 2011-13 for the motor.
Didn’t add an exhaust brake.Didn’t need it.You can do that – if I were doing it I would add the Banks Speed Brake – much more effective that the exhaust brake in the tailpipe line. It's an after market version of the 2011+ and integrated with the Allision.But I never needed it due to the Allison. You are quite safe.As indicated, I have a lot of mountain miles experience.The Allison is fine without add-ons. Had all the power I need to go uphill as well.No need to chip it and frankly, if you have to “chip” an engine then the engine, IMO, is not big enough in the first place.
Your comment about the 2011 and forward is a very good one.Some have had issues with the prior vintages of the Ford / International engines.I’m not starting that discussion.It’s just a fact.Some have no issues, some have some and the owner of this Forum sure had big one. It depends on the year and to some extent, luck. But, IMO, if you go with a 2011+ (actually a 2012 – I don’t care for version 1.0 of anything) you should be fine with either a Ford or Chevy. That said, they will cost more – a lot more.
If you should get a 2006 Chevy you will have something to tow the rig and get it lifted.Just run it high from where you are to MOR/ryde and the problem is solved. It will be fine. My reason for this has to do with your criteria -$$$$’s.That’s the least expensive way to go and there are no issues with the GM 2006 engines or transmissions, etc.Hence the reason for my suggestions.
Many ways to skin the cat.Mine are based on a lot of miles with exactly the rig you have and exactly the truck I suggested.Regardless, best of luck and enjoy the process!
Bill
Terry and Jo said
08:32 PM Sep 26, 2012
Randy,
Let me give you just a bit of an idea of what Photobucket looks like. Click on the link below and it will open in a new window, which will allow you to look back and forth between this message and to the "page" on Photobucket with a picture.
Look to the right of the photo and you will see a box labeled, "Links." There are four different links listed there. The first one is used for Instant Messaging (IM) and for inclusion within e-mail. I've never used that one.
The second one is labeled as "Direct link." That link would allow one to put the link into the body of the forum post, allowing others to click on the link or copy and paste it into their browser's URL line. Doing it with a link, thus guiding the viewer directly to one's Photobucket account and that particular picture allows one to share the photo without having to make sure the image is small enough to not be too big for the forum "page."
EDIT: I forgot to add a link here so you could see the result of clicking on a Direct Link active link. You will see that you get the image only and not all the other things shown on the first link above. That link was so you could see where the links were.
The third link is for "HTML" and is another one that I've never used because I don't know anything about HTML "language."
The fourth and final one is labeled as "IMG Code." With that link, one can put the actual photo in the body of the forum post. This is the method that if used, one must be sure that their photo is not too big.
All one has to do with any of the links is put the mouse cursor over the link one wants to use and do a left-click with the mouse. That "copies" the link and then one goes to the forum and "pastes" the link into the body of the forum. Note that when I did the link above for this page on Photobuck, I used the "Direct Link." (One can go to "Forum Tips" on the RV Dreams forums and include them without having a super long link that could "widen" the page for the forum.)
Next, I've used the "IMG Code" link to insert the picture by itself within the post.
One other thing with Photobucket (I don't know about the others) is that one can go into a Photobucket "Folder" and select "View as a Slideshow." Once the slideshow starts, then one can "copy" the address from the URL line and "paste" that link into one's post. That way, anyone going to that location can see a slide show of all the photos within that folder. Example:
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Friday 28th of September 2012 07:04:05 AM
cep1 said
08:40 PM Sep 26, 2012
Thanks all!
Now it's just a choice in options given cost of each vs. benefits.
Chris
Delaine and Lindy said
10:44 PM Sep 26, 2012
We have owned nothing but GM HD's, one 2500HD and the rest were one Chevy 4500, and of course the Freighliner M2. We have had a total of 5 3500HDs and all have perform great.. We had a 2011 Chevy 3500HD DRW's all options except NAV. Pulled the same route as the Freighliner, Colorado Rockies I-70 West etc.. And the Chevy would run circles around the Freighliner, however the Freightliner did have all air ride system. The Feightliner like the Chevy 4500 was the best over all ride. However the 2011 Chevy 3500 HD ride is the best of the prior 3500HD's. Three weeks after buying the 2011 we ordered the 2012 Chevy 3500HD. I have owned two expensive Hauler beds, so I decided I would buy the CM which cost much less than the two others. However for the cost I'm glad we went with the CM. I have 22" clearance and have the Trailer Saver with a goose neck ball that mounts in the place of the Binkley Head and changes our in 15 minutes and its also on air.
As for after market add on's I agree with Bill if you have to chip it you don't have enough truck. With the 2011's and newer GM trucks you need no after market gadgets, excellent HP and Torq and the exhaust brake is awesome.. I also had a 2006 Chevy 3500HD and had Mor/Ryde install the RL suspension in the rear, didn't use it long enough to get a idea if the ride was better on the 3500HD or not. On the Chevy 4500 it had a Link Air ride suspension system, I guess it did take some stress off what ever was being hauled. But the key was the Air ride seats. Dump the air out of the seats and the ride was terrible...
I highly recommend the Trailer Saver air ride 5th wheel hitch, if your pin weight is under 4,500 lbs the TS 3 works fine. If you need more capacity you can go with the Trailer Saver TSLB2H, but check on mounting in a pick-up bed. With the Freightliner it bolted to a 1/2" steel plate, but TS may have a conversion to were you can mount to standard bed rails. Either system is the best for a air ride 5th wheel hitch.. It's pricey but you want need more than a standard pin box. Good Luck with your decision.. Happy Trails...
CaptainRandy said
12:42 AM Sep 27, 2012
OK Guys, got a photo of the new truck but no earthly idea how to get it in a post --- halp !!!!!
Terry and Jo said
01:34 AM Sep 27, 2012
CaptainRandy wrote:
OK Guys, got a photo of the new truck but no earthly idea how to get it in a post --- halp !!!!!
Randy,
Do you have an account on a photo hosting website, one that serves to allow one to post photos elsewhere. For instance, we have an account with Photobucket. I don't know, but I think Picasa and Webshots both do the same. I think all of those can be had for free.
With the right hosting sight, one can upload their photos to the photo website and then will find that there are links for each photo that can be "copied" and then "pasted" into the forum itself. However, one does have to be careful that their photo is small enough that it doesn't overpower the forum webpage. If it overpowers, then it forces EVERY post to be wider than normal, sometime leading to a nuisance when everyone has to scroll right and left to read what is written.
In case one isn't sure of how to resize their photos or don't want to mess with it, one can usually just insert a link to the photo hosting site from the forum.
Feel free to ask more questions if you need.
Terry
CaptainRandy said
01:43 AM Sep 27, 2012
Tnx's, I'll do my homework.
Terry and Jo said
02:35 PM Sep 28, 2012
I was remiss in mentioning another photo hosting website, but if I remember correctly, it is NOT a free site. Howard and Linda use Smugmug for their pictures. I also think it has the option of linking to a slideshow.
I have been considering using their "Pro" service, provided I can be assured that no one can steal any photos that I post there. The Pro service used to be $150 a year, but is now up to $300. That makes me have to really think about it.
Terry
CaptainRandy said
06:26 PM Sep 30, 2012
Thanks
Photo did not appear but Flickr kink is correct.
Randy
-- Edited by CaptainRandy on Sunday 30th of September 2012 06:27:21 PM
Wow! Now I'm even more overwhelmed than before. Doing homework on the towing vehicle. The RV will be on the heavy side (DRV or Heartland, 40' min.) so I know I need a HD truck. I looked at this post to read about the GMs (I was thinking it will be a choice between the Ford F450 or the Chevy 3500).
All this time, I thought the choice boiled down to making sure the towing capacity and bed length would be adequate for the RV. Now I am reading about all these new terms such as squat, and somewhere down there about a clearance height.
Maybe I can hire one of you guys to help me buy the truck when I'm ready!!! Now I'm so confused and scared that I'll buy something that won't work because I didn't know about some of these details!
(no rush yet -- still prepping the house to go to market)
Rob_Fla said
02:36 PM Oct 11, 2012
Cheryl,
I can say without hesitation our 2012 GMC 3500HD DRW pulls our 40' 4" Jayco Pinnacle with ease, sits level (no problems with bed height) and drives and rides great with the 5er.
That being said, our 5th Wheel is not as heavy as the DRV units but is in line with the Heartland units as we looked at them before buying our Pinnacle.
Our 5er weight with our fulltiming stuff in about 15,200 lbs with a pin weight of about 3,500 lbs.
Note: I say about because we had H & L weigh our rig at the Texas Rally and the 5er weighed 14,950 lbs and the Pin weight was 3,450 lbs, since then we have added a stackable Washer/Dryer.
The GMC 3500HD is just our perference since we are long time GM fans, since there was no reason to change to something different we traded in our Chevy 2500HD and bought another GM product.
Good luck in your shopping and choice.
Pete G said
03:00 PM Oct 15, 2012
CaptainRandy were did you get it from ??
CaptainRandy said
02:58 AM Oct 17, 2012
Dave Smith Motors
Kellogg, Idaho
CaptainRandy said
11:41 PM Feb 8, 2013
Just installed a Reese R-20 20K 5th wheel hitch in the 3500, looks nice.
Anybody installed any locks/cables on their 5th wheel hitch,
if so how did you do it, its in 3 pieces so a cable might work.
Just installed a Reese R-20 20K 5th wheel hitch in the 3500, looks nice.
Anybody installed any locks/cables on their 5th wheel hitch,
if so how did you do it, its in 3 pieces so a cable might work.
Randy:
From what I have seen, your choice is a very good hitch.Almost bought one but it wasn’t available when I changed out the truck last year. As to locking them:I never have simply because it was just too hard without drilling a bunch of holes for some cable and then it would sort of look “rigged.”I did put a lock in the dog pin levers of my Reese Elite Series 25K hitch I had on my previous truck but I couldn’t use that hitch, which I seriously prefer, with the RV-Hauler bed up-fit.But, like yours, I could still have someone steel the head by pulling the pins on the head rocker arm supports.I just lived with that possibly.
The reason for this note:Some of these hitches that mount the four legs on rails with locking pins may “rock” a bit.I noticed my new one did.Unlike the Elite 25KSeries I had, and loved, you can’t tighten down on those leg-to-bed mounts.It’s just a pin through a hole as you know. Yours might not rock, but if it does, which you will notice by some chucking or actual noise because the truck and fivers aren’t “tight,” I have a suggestion.
I went to Tractor Supply and got some belt strap.It’s just rubber in long role of various widths, they cut it to length. You only need a foot which you then cut to size for use under the four legs.I used this very hard rubber like material as a wedge between each leg and the bed rail.It fully tightened up the hitch to the truck.It’s now solid and won’t move.As a “value added feature” and slightly to your question, no one is going to quickly pull those pins out.Due to the tension created by the rubber bushing created you have to drive them out with a hammer and a large screw driver.I actually used the pin weight of the trailer to compress the rubber before I put the pins in. (Yes, the pins will come out.It’s just not easy.)
If you have this rocking issue, which you can test without the trailer, just get in the bed and try to move the hitch around on the rails. If you can move it you have the problem. This little mod may really improve you towing experience.
FWIW and do enjoy the truck.
Bill
CaptainRandy said
07:18 PM Feb 9, 2013
Thanks Bill
Sounds like a quick, easy, inexpensive fix. A little extra rubber padding never hurts on shock loads either!!!!
Got a 2013 Chevy 3500HD diesel/allison on a railcar headed this way. Scoping out misc accessories but appears a little to early for the aftermarket boys to have goodies on the shelf yet.
Still deciding on a 5th wheel hitch but am leaning towards a Reese Pro Series 20,000# unit to haul my 3750FL, figure abt 15,000 - 16,000# after moma loads up kichen and pantry. I'll post pictures when we pick it up.
Well, we all want toys I suppose, but after a modest 6,200 towing miles, including a number of mountains from North Carolina up to and into the Black Hills of South Dakota, you really don’t need any after-market power or braking upgrades.
The exhaust brake, integrated extreamly well with the Allision, is especially impressive. I’ve done some extended 6% grades with the 5er in tow and never touch the foot brake. Going up was just as easy with a lot of throttle remaining. It will go up as fast as you want to burn diesel.
Had zero issues with my 2006, 3500 Duramax / Allison product towing the same rig, but this truck is a definite step-up in power, ride and performance. Lots to spare and the truck “drives” the trailer extremely well. Never had a question who was in charge and my rig, fully loaded for extended travel, is quite a bit heaver than yours.
You should be pleased. Enjoy the new toy.
Bill
Hi Randy:
We have the Air Lift “Load Lifter 5000” w\ the wireless remote. Works fine and has two presets and that is convenient for hitched and un-hitched load conditions. It is a specific kit for the Chevy / GM 3500HD truck. (Works on the 2500HD as well.)
You didn’t ask but I will advise you really don’t “need” air springs with the 3500HD truck. It does not “squat” at all with the air bags deflated and the 5er attached, a full 60 gallon aux fuel tank, the hauler bed and tools. (Yes, we’re within the truck’s limits.) However, I put them on mainly because it was much easier when the bed was off and I thought they might be needed. They really aren’t – truck runs spot on level fully loaded. GM did a nice job with the new suspension system. That said, they do give me some serious hitch height adjustment when I pull different utility trailers at times. Sometimes those trailer hitches are pretty low and I can raise the truck receiver hitch if I need to.
Would I put them on knowing what I know now? Yea, we all love our toys, even the ones we don’t really need but are nice to have.
Bill
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Sunday 2nd of September 2012 11:22:56 AM
Congrats Randy!
I can't order mine until the spring of '13. I will be going GM but I still can't decide on the Chev. or GMC. I've always leaned toward GMC but I love the front end of the HD Chevy (all that chrome!). What made you go with the Chev over the GMC or was it Chevy without question with you?
Bill
What brand of air ride do you have installed?
Having just gone throught the new truck stuff what I found was GM is 59-60" top of box to ground. Dodge 58-59" and Ford was 54". Sitting level my Escalade is 58" to the ground so I had to get a Ford. (the comparison was for 3500/350 series 4wd Dually) What I looked at were 2012 models in dealers lot. The truck suspension would sink a little under load but with the Ford, I pull level. Was quoted $3000 to properly raise my Escalade to tow level with the Dodge/GM.
-- Edited by igotjam on Monday 24th of September 2012 07:24:08 PM
We got a 2012 GMC 3500HD DRW 4x4 a few months ago, it has been great.
We are pulling our Jayco Pinnacle at 40' 4" and a loaded weight of 15,200.
Like Bill said, no mods needed, pulling power is great and going downhill the Exhaust Brake and Allison take care of the load with no problem.
-- Edited by Rob_Fla on Monday 24th of September 2012 08:24:15 PM
I noticed you have a 2012 Chevy 3500 DRW and KZ Escalade...I am trying to get a similar truck but they are too tall for my 2006 36 KSB KZ Excalade. It is only 57" tall, from the fiberglass to ground. Are you able to two level with this combination with 6" clearance?
Chris
Hi Chris:
Welcome to the forum.
Yes, I can level the rig but, and here’s the rub, nothing I have is “standard.”
The 3500HD has an RV hauler bed on it from Classy Chassis so I have lots of clearance as I don’t have a pickup bed. Just lots of storage space and very low rails. But keep in mind; you will have these “pickup truck” bed clearances issues with a Chevy or a Ford. Doesn’t matter. From 2011 on they are all taller. My 2006 3500 4WD had 8” of clearance with the trailer. But you can’t get that from a 2011+. Note also the next paragraph; the trailer was “raised” as well.
The 36KSB is raised 3” from “stock.” That was a factory option. However, all is not lost on that issue. Raising the trailer is no big deal. Take it to MOR/ryde in Elkhart, IN and they can do the raising the right way. Not a problem. There are a couple of other suggestions I can make if you like while you’re there.
In the case of the truck, I have no idea if you are looking to get a really good rig set up for full-timing or extending timing, or you’re just not ready to invest a bit more money to, in so many words, build yourself a great tow truck beyond stock.
The Chevy 3500HD is a great choice for the 36KSB. Weights are good all around. The truck stops the trailer really well, good control, lots of power and the exhaust (turbo) brake coupled with the Allison continues to impress me. Did a 9 mile 8%+ grade down into Utah from Yellowstone and hardly touched the brakes. Didn’t even get warm.
If you want more info I would be pleased to provide it. What I’ve done and how I did it. I've had the pleasure of helping a few with these kinds of "opportunities."
BTW, we still love the Escalade. It’s been to Alaska and the Canadian NWT and still does a very good job for us. But we have added a few things from when it left Shipshewana.
Let us know how we can help.
Bill
Here is a link to a beautiful F350. Not sure how much you want to spend, but this truck looks like "just the ticket".
http://www.jeffengland.net/inventory/view/5871125/2011-Ford-F350%204x4%20King%20Ranch%20Crew%20Cab
Edit by moderator: Activated link. Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Tuesday 25th of September 2012 12:14:11 PM
Thanks Bill and all for responses.
Let me start with a quick summary. We are just starting out in the RV world. We still work, but have plans to head out this January. Our plan is to go full time - already sold the house and everything in it and am living in the 5th wheel. We will travel the SW in cold months and N & NW in warm months. We will also workamp as needed to keep funds in the bank.
We started with a 35' gas class A, but quickly found out it would not do hills like we wanted. Traded in the class A for this 06' Escalade a few months ago. It is a stock '06 without the 3" rise Bill has, but does have MOR/Ryde. I like the idea of MOR/Ryde raising the 5th, but have no way to get it there...
We are now looking at truck, and really like the Duramax/Allison combo but found the height problem. Next, we looked at the RAM 3500 Cumming with the new transmission RAM cloned the Allison. This too was too high, however a friend told me that his RAM 3500 squats 8-10" when he lowers his 5th toy-hauler. Anyone else experience this much squat?
We have also looked at the 5th wheel type truck beds by Herrin Haulers, but they cost $6,000 on top of the cost of the truck.
Lastly, we are looking at the Ford F-450 with the 6.7 engine. The new engine seems to not have all the problems of the prior two.
Our goal is to find the truck that will work without it costing way too much. The Chevy is great, but when you add the bed, the cost will be the highest of the three. The RAM may work if it squats 6". The Ford will work standard, no mods, but they are the second high cost of the three.
We too love the Escalade...seems to have all we were looking for. We replaced the tube TV with a 42" LCD, just installed a set of cloth washer/dryer, have new slide awning on order - making it our own...
Towed perfectly level. I beat the h*** out of myself measuring the height of the truck bed compared to the height of the 5th wheel hitch area(truck was in different place than trailer).Once the two were in the same place I hooked up and never looked back. Can't explain it but then Geometry was never my strong suit :).Service manager kept telling me not to worry and he ended up being right.
-- Edited by Racerguy on Tuesday 25th of September 2012 04:28:57 PM
Chris:
‘Couple of comments: If you have the MOR/ryde you probably have the RL system. It is very good, but if you can ever swing putting a MOR/ryde Independent Suspension (IS) on the trailer you will be surprised at how well it works. Got a lot of miles of experience with it to base those comments on. The MOR/ryde “raise” will not cost you $3,000 based on my experience there.
To the truck – IMO, don’t count on “truck squat” to get you the clearance you need. Here’s what I would do believe it or not based on experience and the criteria you indicated which includes $$’s – I would look around hard for a 2006 Chevy 3500 DRW truck. (The '06 had the 6 speed Allision and that would be nice.) That’s the last one which was the lowest of the three bed height wise and has all the good things – Allison – Duramax – and will handle the Escalade fine. I have some 65,000 towing miles with a 2006 including Alaska and the Canadian NWT to back that up. I had 8”+ of bedrail clearance. Without the 3” lift you will have a bit less, but it will work and, if you want a bit more you can get a quote from MOR/ryde about the lift. Send me a PM if you want more info.
This suggestion sort of gets you in the game without taking as much of a chance on some other earlier vintage engines and transmissions some of which have been known to exhibit “issues” and addresses the $$$ issues I think.
Hope this perspective helps a bit for your thoughts.
Bill
Just to chime in on a couple of things. Bill is right in that the "squat" factor isn't really anything to count on. After all, when the springs allow squat on the height of the truck, it also lowers the nose of the fifth wheel, thus no difference in height. It might change a wee bit on "angle," but not on height.
In reference to Igotjam's comment about the turning radius on the F450, I can vouch for that. We used to have a Ford F250 Club Cab with a short bed and our Ford F450 with a long bed and full four doors turns in the same radius as the F250. Now, with regards to that, if the F450 interests you, look into that to be sure that the new F450's still have that feature. We have a 2008 F450, which has the 19.5" wheels, so it has the better turning radius. The newer F450's (2011 and 2012) have had their wheel size reduced to 17" instead of the 19.5". While I don't know for sure, I was thinking that the front clearance with the bigger wheels helped create the capability of the better turning radius.
Igotjam's comment about the rear differential is right as well. A lower gear ratio (higher ratio number) will give better pulling power, but at the expense of fuel economy. Unless you plan on doing a lot of mountains and steeper grades, the low gear ratio is not really necessary. Even in the mountains, you might have a longer pull at lower speeds on the grades.
Terry
For the 2006 chevy, did you add any exhaust brakes or add-ons? I am not used to mountain climbing, so want to make sure we are safe going down the hill.
The Ford is a simply solution, but the cost is high to get the 6.7 engine and agree the F350 is right way to go, but need a 2011-13 for the motor.
Didn’t add an exhaust brake. Didn’t need it. You can do that – if I were doing it I would add the Banks Speed Brake – much more effective that the exhaust brake in the tailpipe line. It's an after market version of the 2011+ and integrated with the Allision. But I never needed it due to the Allison. You are quite safe. As indicated, I have a lot of mountain miles experience. The Allison is fine without add-ons. Had all the power I need to go uphill as well. No need to chip it and frankly, if you have to “chip” an engine then the engine, IMO, is not big enough in the first place.
Your comment about the 2011 and forward is a very good one. Some have had issues with the prior vintages of the Ford / International engines. I’m not starting that discussion. It’s just a fact. Some have no issues, some have some and the owner of this Forum sure had big one. It depends on the year and to some extent, luck. But, IMO, if you go with a 2011+ (actually a 2012 – I don’t care for version 1.0 of anything) you should be fine with either a Ford or Chevy. That said, they will cost more – a lot more.
If you should get a 2006 Chevy you will have something to tow the rig and get it lifted. Just run it high from where you are to MOR/ryde and the problem is solved. It will be fine. My reason for this has to do with your criteria - $$$$’s. That’s the least expensive way to go and there are no issues with the GM 2006 engines or transmissions, etc. Hence the reason for my suggestions.
Many ways to skin the cat. Mine are based on a lot of miles with exactly the rig you have and exactly the truck I suggested. Regardless, best of luck and enjoy the process!
Bill
Randy,
Let me give you just a bit of an idea of what Photobucket looks like. Click on the link below and it will open in a new window, which will allow you to look back and forth between this message and to the "page" on Photobucket with a picture.
Braying Donkey
Look to the right of the photo and you will see a box labeled, "Links." There are four different links listed there. The first one is used for Instant Messaging (IM) and for inclusion within e-mail. I've never used that one.
The second one is labeled as "Direct link." That link would allow one to put the link into the body of the forum post, allowing others to click on the link or copy and paste it into their browser's URL line. Doing it with a link, thus guiding the viewer directly to one's Photobucket account and that particular picture allows one to share the photo without having to make sure the image is small enough to not be too big for the forum "page."
EDIT: I forgot to add a link here so you could see the result of clicking on a Direct Link active link. You will see that you get the image only and not all the other things shown on the first link above. That link was so you could see where the links were.
Braying Donkey with Direct Link
The third link is for "HTML" and is another one that I've never used because I don't know anything about HTML "language."
The fourth and final one is labeled as "IMG Code." With that link, one can put the actual photo in the body of the forum post. This is the method that if used, one must be sure that their photo is not too big.
All one has to do with any of the links is put the mouse cursor over the link one wants to use and do a left-click with the mouse. That "copies" the link and then one goes to the forum and "pastes" the link into the body of the forum. Note that when I did the link above for this page on Photobuck, I used the "Direct Link." (One can go to "Forum Tips" on the RV Dreams forums and include them without having a super long link that could "widen" the page for the forum.)
Next, I've used the "IMG Code" link to insert the picture by itself within the post.
One other thing with Photobucket (I don't know about the others) is that one can go into a Photobucket "Folder" and select "View as a Slideshow." Once the slideshow starts, then one can "copy" the address from the URL line and "paste" that link into one's post. That way, anyone going to that location can see a slide show of all the photos within that folder. Example:
Some of Terry's Favorites
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Friday 28th of September 2012 07:04:05 AM
Now it's just a choice in options given cost of each vs. benefits.
Chris
As for after market add on's I agree with Bill if you have to chip it you don't have enough truck. With the 2011's and newer GM trucks you need no after market gadgets, excellent HP and Torq and the exhaust brake is awesome.. I also had a 2006 Chevy 3500HD and had Mor/Ryde install the RL suspension in the rear, didn't use it long enough to get a idea if the ride was better on the 3500HD or not. On the Chevy 4500 it had a Link Air ride suspension system, I guess it did take some stress off what ever was being hauled. But the key was the Air ride seats. Dump the air out of the seats and the ride was terrible...
I highly recommend the Trailer Saver air ride 5th wheel hitch, if your pin weight is under 4,500 lbs the TS 3 works fine. If you need more capacity you can go with the Trailer Saver TSLB2H, but check on mounting in a pick-up bed. With the Freightliner it bolted to a 1/2" steel plate, but TS may have a conversion to were you can mount to standard bed rails. Either system is the best for a air ride 5th wheel hitch.. It's pricey but you want need more than a standard pin box. Good Luck with your decision.. Happy Trails...
OK Guys, got a photo of the new truck but no earthly idea how to get it in a post --- halp !!!!!
Randy,
Do you have an account on a photo hosting website, one that serves to allow one to post photos elsewhere. For instance, we have an account with Photobucket. I don't know, but I think Picasa and Webshots both do the same. I think all of those can be had for free.
With the right hosting sight, one can upload their photos to the photo website and then will find that there are links for each photo that can be "copied" and then "pasted" into the forum itself. However, one does have to be careful that their photo is small enough that it doesn't overpower the forum webpage. If it overpowers, then it forces EVERY post to be wider than normal, sometime leading to a nuisance when everyone has to scroll right and left to read what is written.
In case one isn't sure of how to resize their photos or don't want to mess with it, one can usually just insert a link to the photo hosting site from the forum.
Feel free to ask more questions if you need.
Terry
I was remiss in mentioning another photo hosting website, but if I remember correctly, it is NOT a free site. Howard and Linda use Smugmug for their pictures. I also think it has the option of linking to a slideshow.
I have been considering using their "Pro" service, provided I can be assured that no one can steal any photos that I post there. The Pro service used to be $150 a year, but is now up to $300. That makes me have to really think about it.
Terry
Thanks
Photo did not appear but Flickr kink is correct.
Randy
-- Edited by CaptainRandy on Sunday 30th of September 2012 06:27:21 PM
Pic - I hope
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/34884847@N02/8041459509/in/photostream/>
Nice Truck, the new GM's are awsome !!!
Good job, Randy. Truck looks nice.
Terry
Wow! Now I'm even more overwhelmed than before. Doing homework on the towing vehicle. The RV will be on the heavy side (DRV or Heartland, 40' min.) so I know I need a HD truck. I looked at this post to read about the GMs (I was thinking it will be a choice between the Ford F450 or the Chevy 3500).
All this time, I thought the choice boiled down to making sure the towing capacity and bed length would be adequate for the RV. Now I am reading about all these new terms such as squat, and somewhere down there about a clearance height.
Maybe I can hire one of you guys to help me buy the truck when I'm ready!!! Now I'm so confused and scared that I'll buy something that won't work because I didn't know about some of these details!
(no rush yet -- still prepping the house to go to market)
Cheryl,
I can say without hesitation our 2012 GMC 3500HD DRW pulls our 40' 4" Jayco Pinnacle with ease, sits level (no problems with bed height) and drives and rides great with the 5er.
That being said, our 5th Wheel is not as heavy as the DRV units but is in line with the Heartland units as we looked at them before buying our Pinnacle.
Our 5er weight with our fulltiming stuff in about 15,200 lbs with a pin weight of about 3,500 lbs.
Note: I say about because we had H & L weigh our rig at the Texas Rally and the 5er weighed 14,950 lbs and the Pin weight was 3,450 lbs, since then we have added a stackable Washer/Dryer.
The GMC 3500HD is just our perference since we are long time GM fans, since there was no reason to change to something different we traded in our Chevy 2500HD and bought another GM product.
Good luck in your shopping and choice.
Dave Smith Motors
Kellogg, Idaho
Just installed a Reese R-20 20K 5th wheel hitch in the 3500, looks nice.
Anybody installed any locks/cables on their 5th wheel hitch,
if so how did you do it, its in 3 pieces so a cable might work.
Randy:
From what I have seen, your choice is a very good hitch. Almost bought one but it wasn’t available when I changed out the truck last year. As to locking them: I never have simply because it was just too hard without drilling a bunch of holes for some cable and then it would sort of look “rigged.” I did put a lock in the dog pin levers of my Reese Elite Series 25K hitch I had on my previous truck but I couldn’t use that hitch, which I seriously prefer, with the RV-Hauler bed up-fit. But, like yours, I could still have someone steel the head by pulling the pins on the head rocker arm supports. I just lived with that possibly.
The reason for this note: Some of these hitches that mount the four legs on rails with locking pins may “rock” a bit. I noticed my new one did. Unlike the Elite 25KSeries I had, and loved, you can’t tighten down on those leg-to-bed mounts. It’s just a pin through a hole as you know. Yours might not rock, but if it does, which you will notice by some chucking or actual noise because the truck and fivers aren’t “tight,” I have a suggestion.
I went to Tractor Supply and got some belt strap. It’s just rubber in long role of various widths, they cut it to length. You only need a foot which you then cut to size for use under the four legs. I used this very hard rubber like material as a wedge between each leg and the bed rail. It fully tightened up the hitch to the truck. It’s now solid and won’t move. As a “value added feature” and slightly to your question, no one is going to quickly pull those pins out. Due to the tension created by the rubber bushing created you have to drive them out with a hammer and a large screw driver. I actually used the pin weight of the trailer to compress the rubber before I put the pins in. (Yes, the pins will come out. It’s just not easy.)
If you have this rocking issue, which you can test without the trailer, just get in the bed and try to move the hitch around on the rails. If you can move it you have the problem. This little mod may really improve you towing experience.
FWIW and do enjoy the truck.
Bill
Thanks Bill
Sounds like a quick, easy, inexpensive fix. A little extra rubber padding never hurts on shock loads either!!!!