So…when you're in a park with no DirectTV access due to trees and using your OTA antenna to pick up channels…how do you know what channels are in the local area and how do the funky channels like 25-1 get turned in? Is there a way to easily figure this out or is it just trial and error? We've had cable for so long that I have no idea how to do this.
Sitting here in Clarksburg, MD; the only channel I have been able to find is listed as 26 on the TV Guide app on the iPad but when I set the TV channel to 26 it changes to 25-1 and shows the programming. Looking at the TV Guide app I see channels 2.1, 2.2, 2.4, 4.2, 5.1, 7.1, etc. I think one just tunes by the first number (2 for instance) and the decimal numbers are for other channels also transmitted on that channel. Trying to tune just 2 results in the "weak or no signal" indication on the TV even though it's a local station and I've got the antenna pointed more or less in the right direction (the station is in Fredericksburg and I pointed the antenna toward Fredericksburg).
I must be missing something obvious; because I can't believe there is only 1 channel available OTA here in the DC suburbs.
The TV has an auto-search feature that says it takes 30 minutes to complete; would this actually find all of the available channels?
Terry and Jo said
01:17 AM Jul 25, 2012
Neil,
If I remember right, the TV would find all the channels, but I think the TV's "memory" would only remember the ones where it actually gets a signal. Because of the switch to digital over the air, you will see the 2.1 type of display. Here in OKC, we practically live under the TV brodcast towers and channel 9 has two or three extra designators, even though only one will actually give us a signal.
The only other factor that might be a problem is how far you are from the towers. In OKC, the towers are almost all within about a mile of each other. However, other cities may have theirs scattered about and some thus may be out of range of some of those others.
Terry
Neil and Connie said
01:33 AM Jul 25, 2012
I had manually found just a single channel but I ran the Auto-Search on a whim and it came up with a total of 11 channels; so that answers my question. I should have tried that before posting I guess. Once the search is done the up/down channel buttons switch between the channels that have been found.
Thanks; guess we can mark this problem fixed by training.
Terry and Jo said
04:04 PM Jul 25, 2012
Yep. Now you just have to do that every time you move to a new city.
We’ve had a few threads on this topic but I’ll try to give as short, but complete an answer as possible that may be of help.What I am going to say is not conjecture; I did this “TV” thing for a living for over 45 years. (I started really young.)
All of the following pertains to “digital” TV with an over-the-air, outside antenna like has been used for “TV” since the late 1940’s.
Any TV antenna will receive “digital” / HD television stations. There is no such thing as a “digital” TV antenna in spite of marketing hype. However, for a lot of technical reasons and the best results the typical RV antenna needs a small amplifier and needs UHF capability.The typical Winegard RV antenna, with the small Wingman add (for ~$30) works extremely well.I’ve received stations 80 miles away.“It depends” on a lot of factors as to range.(BTW, being right under a TV tower is the worst place for reception.TV engineers spend a lot of money to send the TV signal “out,” not “down.”
In the analog days TV stations were on channels, like 2 – 4 – 34, some for 50 years and were known by those channel numbers locally.When the engineering groups worked on the new digital channels (I did in Washington, DC) it was decided to try and retain those numbers so people in the local community would know them by their old channel names.For extremely valid laws of physics reasons almost all stations had to change their actual channel assignments – I.e. “Channel 3” couldn’t actually stay on channel 3.One TV station I built had to move to the UHF band and use channel 23.However, a method was devised to allow the this TV station to “tune” channel 23, by inputting channel “3” on the remote control. (It’s called PSIP by the technical name.) All TV stations work this way now.
Digital TV stations can actually broadcast more than one program on a single TV channel.That is where the “3-1, 3-2, 3-3” channel numbers come from.3-2, for example is “channel 3,” but the number 2 program.Hence you input a channel by using the dash and a number.I.e. 3-2
(Some TV’s if you just input “3” without the dash will take you to the first program. I.e. 3-1.Some won’t.Just depends on the TV.)
In order for the TV to “download” the information from all TV stations they can receive such that the TV “knows” what channel numbers work in an area you have to “scan.”Anytime you move location, or sometimes pan the antenna in a different direction, you have to tell the TV to scan for channels.If the TV can receive a channel it will then put that channel number in the list of available channels to be received.(The new TV’s are more like a computer than a TV in reality.)
Knowing which way to point the antenna is a bit more difficult.However, most all newer TV have a meter display, accessed from the setup menu, that will help you peak the antenna for the best signals AFTER you scan.However, once the TV has a good lock on the station further peaking won’t improve the picture quality.It’s like a cell phone, you pretty much either get the station or you don’t.Digital is just that way.
There are a couple of sites where you can find TV stations and where to point your antenna from your exact location.
Like all things new, once you get the hang of this you will find digital works very well and you will be surprised a the number of free, over-the-air channels available, many in HD.
If you have more specific questions I’d be happy to try and answer them.
Bill
GENECOP said
02:12 AM Jul 26, 2012
Bill you mentioned pointing the antennae, for local TV I have a round disc like antennae, it is about 18-20" in diameter, I can't point it or change direction, so am I just left with the stations I can receive? Is there any way to improve reception?
Bill and Linda said
01:52 PM Jul 26, 2012
GENECOP wrote:
Bill you mentioned pointing the antennae, for local TV I have a round disc like antennae, it is about 18-20" in diameter, I can't point it or change direction, so am I just left with the stations I can receive? Is there any way to improve reception?
Gene, I am sorry to say yes there is a way, replace the “round” antenna.
Those are omnidirectional and for TV, while they may sort of work, they are not good for TV.
Reasons: First, they have no directivity (receive from mostly one direction) and therefore are terrible at reducing the reception of “ghosts” – signal reflections – which are the greatest impairment to reception of a digital TV signal.Second, they are “wasting” receiving capability by “looking” where there are no usable signals.I have no idea if this makes sense.It’s kind of like the difference between a candle and a flash light.Think of a cupping your hand behind your ear to direct sound to the ear from a specific place.Your hand creates “directivity” or to use another technical term “gain.”
I also don’t know if your round antenna has a pre-amp, sometimes mis-termed a “booster.”A pre-amp, properly installed, will make up for the loss in the coax cable to the TV set among other things.If yours is a Winegard and you have a wall plate with an on-off switch it probably has a pre-amp.
If it was me and I wanted to have the best practical reception I would install a Winegard Sensor III (RV-3095) or Sensor IV (RVW-395), your choice.One is manual up / down / turn – the other is powered. Knowing your rig I would probably go with the Sensor IV for various convenience, not technical, reasons. You should get the Wingman UHF add-on antenna.This little add-on antenna increases gain and directivity for UHF stations enough to be worth ~$20-30.I’ve seen them in this price range and they just mount right on the main antenna.Unlike in the past, most TV stations are now UHF, hence the add-on.
This link has PDF of the manuals including installation.The fact you already have an antenna on the roof should make this easier as you have a cabling already in place.
Sorry for the long posts, but I think it is better to explain why as to a recommendation like this.
Hope that helps – questions?
Bill
RVRon said
08:14 PM Jul 26, 2012
I would concur Bill's statement about the "Wingman" addition to the Winegard crank-up antenna. We have camped with friends in fringe areas with little TV reception availability and have at least gotten a few stations while our friends without the Wingman addition had none at all. It's definitely worth the little bit it costs and is a great addition to an older antenna. I'd also add that digital signals are more or less a "you have it or you don't" thing. With the old analog signals you would get a weak snowy picture if reception was poor. With digital you get nothing or at best a broken-up picture. Sometimes rotating the antenna a little will help.
GENECOP said
12:06 AM Jul 27, 2012
Thanks for the info....looks like I have found my next project......
Trabuco said
02:05 AM Jul 27, 2012
Gene - I just installed the winegard sensor IV. It's the amplified version and works great. The last time I watched over the air tv was back in the analog days. The pictures brought in digitally are absolutely great. It helps being able to adjust the antenna just a little to capture a clear signal.
Bill and Linda said
03:19 PM Jul 27, 2012
GENECOP wrote:
Thanks for the info....looks like I have found my next project......
Gene:
Just making sure so you don’t have any problems: IF your round antenna has a pre-amp, probably on the wall fixture where the switch is, make sure you remove it.You don’t want the new antenna amp “feeding” the old one or vice versa.One pre-amp is all you want and the closer to the antenna the better.
Bill
Neil and Connie said
09:10 PM Aug 1, 2012
Thanks Bill. I'll look into getting the Wingman add on for my antenna; looks like it makes a decent improvement in situations where we have no DirectTV satellite visibility. I've also added the url you suggested (along with TV Fool) to my bookmarks for pointing the antenna a little better. I was able to noodle out where the antennas were with Google but a direct lookup page is better.
-- Edited by Neil and Connie on Wednesday 1st of August 2012 09:12:36 PM
Neil,
If I remember right, the TV would find all the channels, but I think the TV's "memory" would only remember the ones where it actually gets a signal. Because of the switch to digital over the air, you will see the 2.1 type of display. Here in OKC, we practically live under the TV brodcast towers and channel 9 has two or three extra designators, even though only one will actually give us a signal.
The only other factor that might be a problem is how far you are from the towers. In OKC, the towers are almost all within about a mile of each other. However, other cities may have theirs scattered about and some thus may be out of range of some of those others.
Terry
I had manually found just a single channel but I ran the Auto-Search on a whim and it came up with a total of 11 channels; so that answers my question. I should have tried that before posting I guess. Once the search is done the up/down channel buttons switch between the channels that have been found.
Thanks; guess we can mark this problem fixed by training.
Yep. Now you just have to do that every time you move to a new city.
Terry
We’ve had a few threads on this topic but I’ll try to give as short, but complete an answer as possible that may be of help. What I am going to say is not conjecture; I did this “TV” thing for a living for over 45 years. (I started really young.)
All of the following pertains to “digital” TV with an over-the-air, outside antenna like has been used for “TV” since the late 1940’s.
Any TV antenna will receive “digital” / HD television stations. There is no such thing as a “digital” TV antenna in spite of marketing hype. However, for a lot of technical reasons and the best results the typical RV antenna needs a small amplifier and needs UHF capability. The typical Winegard RV antenna, with the small Wingman add (for ~$30) works extremely well. I’ve received stations 80 miles away. “It depends” on a lot of factors as to range. (BTW, being right under a TV tower is the worst place for reception. TV engineers spend a lot of money to send the TV signal “out,” not “down.”
In the analog days TV stations were on channels, like 2 – 4 – 34, some for 50 years and were known by those channel numbers locally. When the engineering groups worked on the new digital channels (I did in Washington, DC) it was decided to try and retain those numbers so people in the local community would know them by their old channel names. For extremely valid laws of physics reasons almost all stations had to change their actual channel assignments – I.e. “Channel 3” couldn’t actually stay on channel 3. One TV station I built had to move to the UHF band and use channel 23. However, a method was devised to allow the this TV station to “tune” channel 23, by inputting channel “3” on the remote control. (It’s called PSIP by the technical name.) All TV stations work this way now.
Digital TV stations can actually broadcast more than one program on a single TV channel. That is where the “3-1, 3-2, 3-3” channel numbers come from. 3-2, for example is “channel 3,” but the number 2 program. Hence you input a channel by using the dash and a number. I.e. 3-2
(Some TV’s if you just input “3” without the dash will take you to the first program. I.e. 3-1. Some won’t. Just depends on the TV.)
In order for the TV to “download” the information from all TV stations they can receive such that the TV “knows” what channel numbers work in an area you have to “scan.” Anytime you move location, or sometimes pan the antenna in a different direction, you have to tell the TV to scan for channels. If the TV can receive a channel it will then put that channel number in the list of available channels to be received. (The new TV’s are more like a computer than a TV in reality.)
Knowing which way to point the antenna is a bit more difficult. However, most all newer TV have a meter display, accessed from the setup menu, that will help you peak the antenna for the best signals AFTER you scan. However, once the TV has a good lock on the station further peaking won’t improve the picture quality. It’s like a cell phone, you pretty much either get the station or you don’t. Digital is just that way.
There are a couple of sites where you can find TV stations and where to point your antenna from your exact location.
This one is probably the best for most people:
http://transition.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/
This one is a little more technical but also has Canadian stations – many of which are still analog:
http://www.rabbitears.info/search.php
Like all things new, once you get the hang of this you will find digital works very well and you will be surprised a the number of free, over-the-air channels available, many in HD.
If you have more specific questions I’d be happy to try and answer them.
Bill
Gene, I am sorry to say yes there is a way, replace the “round” antenna.
Those are omnidirectional and for TV, while they may sort of work, they are not good for TV.
Reasons: First, they have no directivity (receive from mostly one direction) and therefore are terrible at reducing the reception of “ghosts” – signal reflections – which are the greatest impairment to reception of a digital TV signal. Second, they are “wasting” receiving capability by “looking” where there are no usable signals. I have no idea if this makes sense. It’s kind of like the difference between a candle and a flash light. Think of a cupping your hand behind your ear to direct sound to the ear from a specific place. Your hand creates “directivity” or to use another technical term “gain.”
I also don’t know if your round antenna has a pre-amp, sometimes mis-termed a “booster.” A pre-amp, properly installed, will make up for the loss in the coax cable to the TV set among other things. If yours is a Winegard and you have a wall plate with an on-off switch it probably has a pre-amp.
If it was me and I wanted to have the best practical reception I would install a Winegard Sensor III (RV-3095) or Sensor IV (RVW-395), your choice. One is manual up / down / turn – the other is powered. Knowing your rig I would probably go with the Sensor IV for various convenience, not technical, reasons. You should get the Wingman UHF add-on antenna. This little add-on antenna increases gain and directivity for UHF stations enough to be worth ~$20-30. I’ve seen them in this price range and they just mount right on the main antenna. Unlike in the past, most TV stations are now UHF, hence the add-on.
This link has PDF of the manuals including installation. The fact you already have an antenna on the roof should make this easier as you have a cabling already in place.
http://www.winegard.com/wingman/index.php
Sorry for the long posts, but I think it is better to explain why as to a recommendation like this.
Hope that helps – questions?
Bill
I would concur Bill's statement about the "Wingman" addition to the Winegard crank-up antenna. We have camped with friends in fringe areas with little TV reception availability and have at least gotten a few stations while our friends without the Wingman addition had none at all. It's definitely worth the little bit it costs and is a great addition to an older antenna. I'd also add that digital signals are more or less a "you have it or you don't" thing. With the old analog signals you would get a weak snowy picture if reception was poor. With digital you get nothing or at best a broken-up picture. Sometimes rotating the antenna a little will help.
Gene:
Just making sure so you don’t have any problems: IF your round antenna has a pre-amp, probably on the wall fixture where the switch is, make sure you remove it. You don’t want the new antenna amp “feeding” the old one or vice versa. One pre-amp is all you want and the closer to the antenna the better.
Bill
Thanks Bill. I'll look into getting the Wingman add on for my antenna; looks like it makes a decent improvement in situations where we have no DirectTV satellite visibility. I've also added the url you suggested (along with TV Fool) to my bookmarks for pointing the antenna a little better. I was able to noodle out where the antennas were with Google but a direct lookup page is better.
-- Edited by Neil and Connie on Wednesday 1st of August 2012 09:12:36 PM