We need to get our next tow vehicle before our toyhauler. My current truck is not rated for the weight. I was looking at the GMC 3500 but the new trucks are almost 5 inches higher at the tailgate. I have read where people are having trouble pulling shorter, lighter fifthwheels with the new beds.

 I looked at the Ford 350 and it sits less than 1 inch higher than my current truck. The tow rating on the Ford is lower so I thought about the 450. Has anyone had experiance with the new 6.7? I read that the exhaust brake on the Ford isn't as good, but I thought with larger brakes it would stop the rig. I have not driven either truck, but will be in Houston next weekend. I have found several there to drive. I am looking for the pros and cons on the 450.

Thanks, James

James,

Well, I am now officially confused.  With your comment about the larger brakes, I got to wondering.  My understanding was that the newer F450's had 17" wheels, but a visit to a Ford Superduty brochure yielded the information that there are 18 and larger wheels available for the Fords.

At a base of 17" wheels, are those larger than GM's or Dodge's trucks?  The older F450's (like ours) do have the 19.5" wheels with larger brakes because of that.

But, the real confusing thing for me was looking at the GCVW and towing weights for the trucks.  According to their brochure (at least the pdf file version that I have), the Ford F450's only come in 4x4 mode.

Now, I'm going to have to do some more research.  Sorry that I don't have any answers for your questions, though.  I'll have to look into that as well.

Terry

Terry, on the Ford website only 17" wheels are available on the 450. It has larger rotors than the 350.                                                                                  

F350 front rotor 13.66"  rear rotor 13.39"  F450 front 14.53"  rear 15.35".  I think larger rotors would give it more stopping power.

James

As usual, Jack’s all over it.  The bed rail clearance on ALL of the new trucks is getting really close.  I had 8+” with my 2006 Chevy 4x4 truck.  When I took a look at the 2012’s it was pretty clear to me that you needed an RV Hauler type be to maintain that clearance; especially if you want your trailer to run level and never worry about damaging the truck or the trailer.

I took a look at the company Jack commented on in detail and in person. Due to some factors, I went with the Classy Chassis’ conversion.  (Not because of  money, not quality and not functionality.)  There are several companies that provide these “hauler beds” to meet a number of price points so look around.  But if you are going with a new generation pickup (2011+) it might be worth considering regardless of the brand of truck.  They are all a lot taller.

Bill

This is something I know nothing about, the bed clearance.  I'm guessing that this is the distance from the FW hitch pin to the bed hitch.  Can someone explain this as it relates to variations in trucks and FWs?

I'm very new at this, but have done alot of research, but this issue I was not aware of at all.

Mark

sdman wrote:

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This is something I know nothing about, the bed clearance.  I'm guessing that this is the distance from the FW hitch pin to the bed hitch.  Can someone explain this as it relates to variations in trucks and FWs?

I'm very new at this, but have done alot of research, but this issue I was not aware of at all.

Mark

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 It is the distance (clearance) from the top of the truck's bed rail to the bottom of the trailer that overhangs the pickup truck bed.  You can "dig" the truck's bed rails into that overhang in many conditions if they are too close - like when the front of the truck goes down - the rear of the bed rails come up.   Tha's just one example of why you need at least 6" and IMO you need 8.  Others may not feel the need of as much saftey.  I've seen 8" come close more times than I want to recall.

Bill

Thanks Bill.  I guess I figured that the FW level tow dimension (bottom of trailer to pin in pin box and both to ground) was some standard.  So, as in my case the the FW is being built and I'm haveing the bed hitch installed as we speak w/o the FW there. I'm believing the the hitch is installed to a standard height in the bed to match the standard FW height of the pin.  Then the bed rails clearance to the bottom of the FW would totaly be dependant on the size of the bed rails.  If this is the case, then what can be done to increase the clearance?

I hope I am making since with this question.

Mark

sdman wrote:

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Thanks Bill.  I guess I figured that the FW level tow dimension (bottom of trailer to pin in pin box and both to ground) was some standard.  So, as in my case the the FW is being built and I'm haveing the bed hitch installed as we speak w/o the FW there. I'm believing the the hitch is installed to a standard height in the bed to match the standard FW height of the pin.  Then the bed rails clearance to the bottom of the FW would totaly be dependant on the size of the bed rails.  If this is the case, then what can be done to increase the clearance?

 

I hope I am making since with this question.

 

Mark

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Yes, you are making sense.  But no, in reality there is no firm “standard” height for the kingpin set in stone.  They are all close, but no firm number.

The hitch is adjustable to some extent in the vertical direction.  But if you raise the hitch to give you more bed rail clearance you could end up with the FW high in the front.  That’s not a good thing for a number of reasons – one important one is that it puts more weight on the back axle of the FW.  In a worse case situation it could cause an overload of the rear axle.

Now, may I say – don’t be overly concerned.  There are some of us here who are sticklers for things being “just so” – like with bed rail clearance.  While we’re “correct,” the Earth will not change its rotation if you have the front of the trailer raised 2 inches.  But you can’t just ignore with impunity the bed rails being like 3” from the trailer overhang.  So you might have to raise the hitch via the hitch adjustments as I indicated.

You actually can have the trailer raised in the rear to help it run level if required or desired.  This is not as formidable a thing as you might imagine.  Done all the time and is safe if done correctly by a competent frame shop who knows trailers.  Howard and Linda had theirs done at MOR/ryde when they put on the IS suspension.  Mine was done at the factory when I ordered it.  I HIGHLY recommend MOR/ryde.

All we’re doing is trying to provide information that is as factual as possible.  It is up to you to decide what is best for you and your rig.

Hope this helps.  If not, just ask.

Bill

Bill, I saw your truck at the spring rally. I really liked the bed, but it has to weigh more than the factory bed. I would think that drops the ccc of the truck. I really wanted to stay with the GM  but don't know if I want to spend more money on the custom bed. I was suprised  that the 4x4  F350 had the same bed height as my 4x4 2500. I looked at the specs the F350 was rated at 21,500 and the GM 3500 was 22,400. The toyhauler we are looking at has a 19,000 gvwr so both should handle them. I thought if I went to Ford I would research the 450 because of the 24,500 lb rating. I don't know if the bed sits higher. I want the 4x4 for boon docking and lauching a bass boat in the winter months at Toledo Bend. We need to get the truck first so we will keep our existing fiver  for about 18 months then get our toyhauler about 1 year before early retirement. I need about a year to do the solar system(I have been reading Jack's site) and figure what we need to make it our home.

Thanks again everyone, I hope this wasn't too long.

James,

Don't rely on "towing weight" when considering a truck.  While my 2008 Ford F450 has a towing weight of 24,600 lbs, if I was actually towing that much, I could be overweight with regards to GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight).

If your projected fifth wheel is 19,000 lbs, you need to add that amount to the projected GVWR (Gross Vehicular Weight Rating) of the truck in which you are interested.  That will give you an idea of what your total weight could be.  I say "could be" because you might not have the truck all the way to its GVWR.

Many folks like to have a cushion between their actual gross combined weights and what the truck is capable to handle.  Some say the "cushion" ought to be 15% to 20% of the GCVW.

Another popular saying is that it is better to have too much truck than not enough.  I know of an RV'er that towed a Mobile Suites (roughly 18,000 to 18,500 lbs) with a 350/3500 series truck until he couldn't get stopped for a light in spite of having plenty of room.  The roads were slightly wet and he went through a red light.  No accident occurred because the other drivers saw him coming and his problem.  He now pulls with an MDT.

Terry

Thanks Bill for the bed rail height answer.  I have been researching all things RV and full timing for a few years and it has been a few months since I ran across something that I was completely unaware of like this.  In the beginning it was all of the time.  I'm always hoping that I don't fall into the "I don't know what I don't know" category, probably unavoidable.  I want to be as knowledgeable I can before we start actual full timing in the next few weeks.

- Mark

James and Cindy wrote:

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Bill, I saw your truck at the spring rally. I really liked the bed, but it has to weigh more than the factory bed. I would think that drops the ccc of the truck. I really wanted to stay with the GM  but don't know if I want to spend more money on the custom bed. I was suprised  that the 4x4  F350 had the same bed height as my 4x4 2500. I looked at the specs the F350 was rated at 21,500 and the GM 3500 was 22,400. The toyhauler we are looking at has a 19,000 gvwr so both should handle them. I thought if I went to Ford I would research the 450 because of the 24,500 lb rating. I don't know if the bed sits higher. I want the 4x4 for boon docking and lauching a bass boat in the winter months at Toledo Bend. We need to get the truck first so we will keep our existing fiver  for about 18 months then get our toyhauler about 1 year before early retirement. I need about a year to do the solar system(I have been reading Jack's site) and figure what we need to make it our home.

Thanks again everyone, I hope this wasn't too long.

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James:

You should size the truck based on the weight of the trailer – period.  However, these hauler beds can be put on any truck, Chevy, Ford, Dodge, etc.  Yes, it does weigh more than the factory bed and yes that means it subtracts from the weight the truck can handle trailer wise.  But I’m still good, lots of pad – Howard says I was when he and Linda weighted it.  { I knew that well before the Rally}

So if you need an F-450, get one; or an HDT for that matter.  I didn’t need one and, for me, I prefer the more proven drive train of the GM truck – Duramax with the upgraded Allison, etc.  But that was my choice because the Ford’s were/are all new; transmission and engine.  You should do your own research on how they are performing and make your own decisions based on your needs.  But if you need more truck weight capability than the Chevy 3500HD, get it and you can have the hauler bed installed on it.

If you want more info just PM me and I’ll give you my research and why I chose the bed I did.  It doesn’t make it necessarily the best for everyone, just the best for us based on our criteria.  YMMV 

BTW, if you want to boondock may I suggest you do want 4WD and commenting on stopping a Mobile Suites or any large trailer, get electric over hydraulic disc brakes on the trailer regardless of the truck – that is 90% of the problem.  Other than an HDT, nothing is going to stop a big fiver on its own and even the HDT needs the trailer brakes to be effective in handling the trailer safely.

Bill

Gary wrote:

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Real good points on rail heights. We're buying the truck in the next year or so and hopefully the manufacturers will do something about that!

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 Gary:

 If I may say, I don’t expect the manufactures to “do something about that.”  The truck market for RV’s is really small in big picture and if the trailer makers raise the overhang height it either 1) increases the overall height of the trailer or 2) reduces headroom in the bedroom area.  (If you raise the floor you lower the headroom.)  So manufactures may or may not take all these things into consideration when building the truck or trailer because, “it depends” on the rig as a package as to the issues.

In a sort of related item, you need to also be concerned with the length of the king pin box.  Some air ride type king pin boxes are so long due in a hard turn they can contact the side of the pickup box.  There are “fixes” for this, but you want to check what the trailer manufacture is supplying.  A good friend of mine had this problem with his Mobile Suites as the king pin air-ride box was not correct for his truck even though he specified the connection.  Stuff happens . . .

I just say this in commenting I expect it will be up to us, the end users, to find solutions which do exist and I just wanted to give those who might be purchasing or already have a unit a “heads up.”

Safe travels

Bill