Can anyone share how the ride of the F-550 and F-450 compare? If we purchase the F-550, we would likely add an air ride suspension.

We are in the planning stages for Full-Time RVing and we thought we had determined our towing vehicle (thanks to many discussions on RV-Dreams and a few other websites.) We thought the Ford 450 would meet the needs for towing a 22,500 lb 39-foot fifth-wheel (with that weight including: fifth-wheel dry weight, generator, solar panels, personal items, water, etc.)

However, DH visited a local Ford dealership to ask some questions and it appears that Ford made some changes to the 2012 F-450. Per the dealership, when they increase the 2012 F-450’s fuel efficiency the towing capability was negatively affected. Per some documents that I located online, the max 5^th-wheel towing capability of a 2012 F-450 is 21,600 lbs (although I also found conflicting information on Ford’s site that still stated the max towing capability was 24,500 lbs … ) – if 21,600 lbs is correct, this obviously presents us with an issue. Either way, we want to explore further the possibility of using the F-450 or F-550 as our towing vehicle. We are not considering HDT for towing (nothing against HDTs, but it would not be our preferred towing vehicle.)

Our primary hesitation with the F-550 is the ride. This is primarily based upon a few mentions in RV-Dreams about a rough ride as well as the Ford dealer shared that the F-550 was not intended for distance driving. From the stand point of our “distance driving,” we hope to limit towing of the fifth-wheel to 200-300 miles on any single day, so we can easily drive between the hours of 10am-3pm, in the sunlight and while traffic is less heavy (following Howard and Linda’s approach.)

Although we can clearly test-drive both vehicles, I thought individuals who were already RVing would have the added perspective of longer distance trips as well as the ride when towing a heavy fifth-wheel.

Any insights about the ride of the F-550 would be appreciated. Thank you!

------

In case it is useful: the Ford “2012 Super Duty Chassis Cabs Trailer Towing Selector”  and “2012 RV & Towing Guide” documents, that both list the max loaded fifth wheel towing weight for a 2012 F-450 is 21,600 lbs, can be found on Ford’s site at:

http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/12FLRVTT_SuperDtyCCjul1.pdf

https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/rv_trailer_towing/2012/12FLRVTT16_ttselectorP20_Sep6.pdf

As previously mentioned, it is still listed at 24,500 lbs max in other locations – not sure which is correct, but I am leaning towards the 21,500 lb max due to DH’s conversation with the local Ford dealership (although I am hoping that is not the case) and obviously Ford has some incorrect information on their website.

Lyn, welcome to the forum...I know the confusion in towing numbers.  I however run thru the towing numbers all the time at work in the industry.  The hard and fast rule is the Ford Towing Guide is the gospel.  The new 2012 F450 is rated at 24500lbs (6.7L w/6R140trans) and GCVW is 33000lbs.  As far as ride and comfort...I have a 2008 F450 and did nothing to the suspension to tow my 43 ft 21000lbs toyhauler.  It rides and stops with no problems.  I would take a dealers word with a grain of salt...ie. sales guys will try and get you into a more expensive buy.  The F450 is available with bed and hitch from the factory while a F550 is not.  You would need to aftermarket a bed and hitch.  The need for a F550 is in my opinion overkill.  I would also re-think whether or not to go with 4x4.  A 4x2 is lighter and the need for 4x4 is few times for the added hardware and weight. 

Hope this was helpful.

Camper_Boy. Thank you for the welcome as well as the very helpful information. It is good to know the dealer was not correct about the reduced towing capabilities of the 2012 F-450.

Racerguy. Thank you. I have read most (if not all) of Jack Mayer’s blog entries on HDT as well as entries on a wide other assortment of topics. Jack is extremely knowledgeable and at one point had us questioning if a HDT was our only viable option (i.e., he and other make a persuasive argument), but we ultimately decided we would be more comfortable with the choice of a F-450 or similar truck.

Lyn,  what part of the country are you in?  Might expain,  dealer info.? 

I to read Jack's blog and take his experience in fulltimming useful.  I to considered a HDT but now the medium duties can perform well with the heavier 5th wheels.  Which 5er are you considering?

We are in our initial few months of research, but we have already narrowed down the manufacturer to New Horizons. We like the quality, layout and the fact that we can customize pretty much anything that we want. We will keep an open mind and look at other manufactures, but the given information that I read about New Horizons, they are our likely choice. Now we just have to see a New Horizons RV in-person ... given we live in the North East, we are planning to attend the Hersey show in the Fall.

Lyn,

With all due respect to the guides and what-have-you, I would recommend at the minimum a full MDT or a HDT for a New Horizons weighing that much.  As far as I am concerned, the "tow ratings" are only useful as a very rough guide.  The number you want to pay attention to is the GCVW.  On an F450, that is 33,000 lbs. and towing a New Horizons would probably exceed that limit.

And you don't want to exceed the GCVW of a truck, if you want a safe rig.

We have a Mobile Suites with a GVWR of 18,500 lbs.  Our 2008 Ford F450 has a GVWR of 14,500 lbs (a 2012's GVWR is 13,300), so if I were to get anywhere near the GVWR on my our truck, I would probably reach the GCVW of the truck and not give me any "cushion" as to weight.

(18,500 + 14,500 = 33,000 lbs.)

While a Ford F450 is "technically" an MDT, it is at the low end of the MDT spectrum.  Since I like a cushion for weight, I am pleased that Jo and I traded our Mercury Mariner for a Ford F150.  I can put a cap (topper, shell, etc) on that F150 and spread our weight out even more by utilizing the fivers storage, the F450 bed, and the F150's bed.

Had you not decided on the New Horizons, the F450 would be sufficient.  I wouldn't even consider the F550 because it isn't that much better than the F450, if is is at all.

However, good luck with your research.  As for the ride, I am pleased with the F450, as long as we don't get on some of Oklahoma's elevated turnpike stretches.  We also prefer the F450 as a pickup because it give us a lot more visibility around the truck.  An MDT or HDT can limit one's vision.

Terry

New Horizons, as you know, are simply very heavy and big trailers.  If I were you I would contact Jack Mayer who is a representative for New Horizons.  Jack has personal and direct experience with F-550’s, HDT’s and the New Horizon trailer.  He will most likely encourage you to go to an HDT.  But he also knows the facts and I am sure will be happy to advise you with firsthand knowledge on all these issues.

http://jackdanmayer.com/

If you want an F-550 MOR/ryde makes a suspension upgrade for the Ford which I can personally recommend which will improve significantly the “truck ride.”  It isn’t that expensive when compared to the entire project.

Bill

Jeff’s post brings up an issue that is worth emphasizing to anyone reading this thread.  That is the differences in capabilities, i.e. towing specifications, of trucks from different model years.  The “badges” on the side of the trucks, F-350, F-550, 3500HD, 2500, etc. are meaningless.  As an example, depending on the model year the “3500’s / F-350” are far more capable than some F-450 / F-550’s from the past.  Same is true for GM 4500 / 5500’s vs. the “newer trucks.”

The point is that each year truck has its own specifications and what the marketing department put on the side of the truck is of little interest when selecting a vehicle – period.  It’s what’s under the sheet metal that counts.

As another minor but interesting point, many of the newer “trucks” which are rated at 30,000+ lbs combined weight, have better rides, solo, than some F-150’s / 1500 trucks.  It just depends and it is wise to do your own research, take test drives and find out for yourself, as Jack suggested, what is right for you.  Things are not as they once were when you could just purchase a truck based on the name plate and the numbers on the side.

And, for what it is worth, I would have an HDT if my trailer weighed 23,000lbs.  But it doesn’t and so the ratings for my truck handle my trailer very well.  But it is a 2012 – Chevy 3500, not a 2003 – Chevy 3500.  The only thing these two trucks have in common is the 3500 on the side. (The same would be true for Dodge or Ford.)

My 2 cents

Bill

Jack’s comments further reinforce the “check the exact specifications for each truck and trailer.”

Jack lists the 2012 F-450, an MDT truck by all specifications, as having a rear axle rating of 9,000lbs.  The 2012 Chevy 3500HD has a rear axle rating of 9,350 lbs. While the 3500HD does not qualify as an MDT due to marketing weight ratings, it actually has higher ratings in some areas than some MDT’s.  “It depends.”  (This rear axle rating is in the manual and on the door of the truck.)

This is not said to say the Chevy is “better.”  It just well illustrates that each truck has a specific rating and whatever brand it is one must carefully evaluate the specific truck and trailer combination as a package.

Good info Jack.

Bill

Yes,  I agree with all comments.  I do however think rear axle ratio is important in selecting a rig.  I run a 2008 F450 w/4.88 gears as newer 2011 and up run a 4.30 gear.  Higher the gear ratio, generally more towing and payload.  This difference in gearing is made up with the newer 6 speed transmission.  In the end just be careful in choosing and you will be well served.  I would always ask for the manufacturers specifications and make best choice.

On another note,  I would be careful as to what aftermarket add ons you choose.  Manufacturers do not design trucks to support these equipment upgrades.  As such your vehicle warranty would likely be conpromised. 

I would drive what ever you can and make best decision for your lifestyle.

Happy Trails

Thank you all for your insights and suggestions! Clearly, a HDT would meet our towing needs. Given the tow vehicle may be our sole vehicle, we would prefer not to use a HDT – but obviously, safety is the most important decision criteria.

As I mentioned, we are currently researching our various options, with our actual purchase occurring a couple years in the future. I would prefer to spend the time researching now, than regret an uninformed decision. Although the New Horizons RVs are heavy, my understanding is that NH uses as well as recommends the F-450 for the RV weight that we are considering [which I know Jack and others do not agree with.] Since posting this question, we met a virtual RV-Dreams friend, who is purchasing a similar weight/length NH and plans to use the F-450 as their tow vehicle – and we are looking forward to learning about their experiences. We will also start considering ways that we could potentially minimize weight (e.g., what options we choose, personal items that we bring and, as needed, consider a shorter RV lengths that our planned 39’ [37’ + 2’for a King bed]).

Thank you for sharing your insights, passion and time, to help us make an informed decision.

P.S. Jack – thank you for your offer to ask you questions privately. We will likely take your up on your offer when we meet you in-person at a future RV Show, NH Rally and/or a RV-Dreams Rally--to ask you questions on a wide variety of topics.

Good news is with New Horizons just anounced use of an aluminum chassis construction (at least on some models), this means our future RV purchase could easily weigh 2,000 pounds less than origninally anticipated. With a 39' triple slide unit weighing approx. 15,560 lbs dry weight (with standard Majestic equipment) -- so fully loaded, we should be fine with a F-450.

Jack Mayer wrote:

---

Lyn, you should be good with an F450 with that size rig. No issue there.

I just hauled a 20K New Horizons with an F450 and it did fine. I would have preferred a different brake controller, but other than that the truck performed well.

---

Jack:

I’ll be interested in your take on this new NH aluminum frame and how much weight it saves vs. how much strength and capacity is given up in so many words.  Have you seen it yet or is it just in prototype.

I am familiar with aluminum frames from my aircraft days but never seen it used in this capacity – at least in a consumer trailer frame.

(Amen on the brake controler.)

Bill

Touching on Jack's last comment, there is a couple that "used" to weigh RV's at rallies and such.  He kept documented information, enough so that he shared his findings with weighing the RV's of about 99 DRV Suites models over the years.

His document that he provided gave all the pertinent weights for each of the units he weighed.  However, what was really telling was information at the very bottom of the document.  It stated that he found that 100% of the SRW trucks were overweight, based on the door sticker on each truck.  Also very telling was that 60% of all DRW trucks that he weighed were also overweight.

Terry

Very interesting.  I get the picture and if the math works that would open up another market for them and for those not wanting a bigger MDT or HDT. (Even Airstream used steel frames so this is kind of unique.)  I will keep that in mind for the future as that better fits our needs and perhaps some others as well.

I hope they will put their expected specs on the web site but until they build one you really don’t know for sure all the weights so I doubt that will happen – especially for a custom rig.  We have to go back home right after the Rally (missed seeing you and Danielle) but on our way out west later this year we may be able stop by the plant and at least see the Cad drawing.  That would be interesting.

(I agree – even if you don’t need them for a specific weight you really do “need” DRW for most 5’ers.)

Thanks very much

Bill

24,500 towing capacity is correct for the 2012 models; altough you also need to consider the GCVW limit as well.

Hello, all! I haven't posted in a while, but I have been keeping up with the posts and, especially, information regarding tow vehicles. The most important thing to me, as it should be, is the tow vehicle. We do not plan to full-time for about another year, but I have been reading as much as I can about all of the possible options and set-ups and, well, have been freaking out! I don't want a jinormous truck because it will also serve as our "pleasure" vehicle. (Don't take that the wrong way, please! :)) I don't want a vehicle so heavy and rigid that we can't enjoy exploring after dropping the 5er. I realize everyone has their favorite home or is leaning toward a specific unit, as am I. However, some units are much heavier than others. It seems the manufacturers of some of the heavier units are starting to build with more lightweight materials, as is New Horizons for units less than 39'. I have a few questions. If the unit is so heavy that it puts you over the top with a tow vehicle , wouldn't it make more sense to consider a lighter unit IF you don't want an over-the-top tow vehicle? Second, I have fallen in love with the Forest River Columbus 320RS by Palomino. This particular unit has a GVWR of 14,015 lbs. and is a fabulous unit, as far as I can tell. I really don't understand all of these numbers and calculations, but 14,015 is much less than all of these other numbers I am seeing here. It appears that not many (if any) in this forum have made any (much) mention of the Columbus units. Do you know something I don't? Lastly, with a unit of GVWR 14,015, would a F-350 suffice?

Many thanks to all of you experts out there for your thoughts!

P.S.  Scubabek, if you are out there, I sent you a PM.

-- Edited by Mary Sunshine on Sunday 22nd of July 2012 12:04:09 PM

Mary Sunshine wrote:

---

I have a few questions. If the unit is so heavy that it puts you over the top with a tow vehicle , wouldn't it make more sense to consider a lighter unit IF you don't want an over-the-top tow vehicle? Second, I have fallen in love with the Forest River Columbus 320RS by Palomino. This particular unit has a GVWR of 14,015 lbs. and is a fabulous unit, as far as I can tell. I really don't understand all of these numbers and calculations, but 14,015 is much less than all of these other numbers I am seeing here. It appears that not many (if any) in this forum have made any (much) mention of the Columbus units. Do you know something I don't? Lastly, with a unit of GVWR 14,015, would a F-350 suffice?

---

 Only one comment on this.  Heavy generally means better/more substantial construction, using stronger frame material.  Light weight means light weight material used in construction.  Ya gets what ya pays for. 

Wood?  Aluminum?  Wood?  Aluminum?  I'm thinking aluminum.  Do you have any comments on the Columbus, Merc?

Nope, no personal experience with the Columbus.  My comment is based on my personal experience with light weight for the length of trailer.  Somewhere, they have to sacrifice weight, which equates to lower strength materials, or at least lower muscle.  My rig is listed as a 31 ft, but is nearer 35 ft in length.  It is by no means a lightweight, but that is one of the things that drew me to Sunnybrook back when they were building the Titan of yore.  Ours is aluminum superstructure, like a great many of them in use today.  We still weigh in heavy and that is mostly due to the double stacked frame.  But, it is built to withstand the earthquake everytime we hook up and travel.

It would be interesting to know what the added load allowance is to reach the 14K GVWR is.  That would give more information on what the dry weight of the rig is.  Then clothes, food, utensils, water, propane and etc, etc, etc will add up toward the GVWR.

Go back up and re-read everything Jack Mayer posted.  I trust Jack in all thing RVing.  Good luck in your choices.

Mary Sunshine wrote:

---

Again, great info everyone! I guess my question now would be... who would you say is the most popular manufacturer out there, and why? Money is not the issue, it's the floor plan. If we are going to full-time in the thing, I want to make sure it has a "spacious" feeling about it along with plenty of storage and great tank sizes, of course. There are soooo many manufacturers and models available nowadays, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to get everyone's opinions and reasoning. I realize it comes down to what we want, but your input is invaluable!

---

Mary, you said money was not the issue.  Well then, New Horizons or Forks.  “Most popular” IMO is not the question.  Best build, New Horizons / Forks, would be at the top of my list.  But these are not for the faint of wallet.  You pretty much get what you pay for.  And, assuming a few things, if you go with say a New Horizons, you will most likely need an HDT.  Yes, an F-450/550 could do the task, but if you get a trailer in the class and weight most of these present, you really need an HDT.  Really

New Horizons and Forks will build you pretty much any floor plan you want.  (I’ve seen 55 foot units at Forks that will just blow your mind.)  That’s why they are custom shops, Forks especially.  It will be more like building a house with an architect, not going to visit an RV salesman.  These two manufacturers have completely different business models than other more mass built trailers.

Check with Jack for a New Horizons and plan for quite an eye opening experience when you move to this class, and weight, of rig.  Forks is probably worth a visit as well just for perspective.  www.forksrv.com  They are a smaller shop than New Horizons. That said, Jack will not steer you wrong.

Bill

53 Merc wrote:

---

Somewhere, they have to sacrifice weight, which equates to lower strength materials, or at least lower muscle.  My rig is listed as a 31 ft, but is nearer 35 ft in length.  It is by no means a lightweight, but that is one of the things that drew me to Sunnybrook back when they were building the Titan of yore.  Ours is aluminum superstructure, like a great many of them in use today.  We still weigh in heavy and that is mostly due to the double stacked frame.  But, it is built to withstand the earthquake everytime we hook up and travel.

It would be interesting to know what the added load allowance is to reach the 14K GVWR is.  That would give more information on what the dry weight of the rig is.  Then clothes, food, utensils, water, propane and etc, etc, etc will add up toward the GVWR.

Go back up and re-read everything Jack Mayer posted.  I trust Jack in all thing RVing.  Good luck in your choices.

---

Ken sure made the point.  When trailers are “light,” relative to their length and options, you have to leave something out.  What I have noticed is the lack of the double stacked frame and even thinner wood cabinets.  The frames on some trailers I have seen the same length as ours are almost half the thickness as our 2007.

It sure is easy to reach these lower GVWR numbers when full-timeing or part-timing.  You would really be surprised at the combined weight of things you pack in a rig.

Jo,

I would imagine that the Ford F350 or the Dodge and GM 3500 series trucks would be very suitable for the size of trailer you are "currently" considering.  I'm not sure of the configurations of the GM and Dodge trucks but one can get a Ford F350 with single rear wheels.

If you are in a truck with the single rear wheels, you will lose some stability and weight carrying capacity compared to the same model with dual rear wheels.

 As the others mentioned, does that model you like have much in the way of "cargo carrying capacity?"  If the manufacturerer doesn't list it as such, subtract the empty weight from the GVWR to see what the "CCC" would be for that trailer.

If you were to later consider that the model you are looking at wouldn't be good enough for you to "full-time" in, would your truck be sufficient to handle a larger trailer?

It is for that reason that many of us always advise to choose an RV before buying a truck.  The old saying that you can't have too much truck but you can have too much trailer certainly applies.  I know of an individual that towed a Mobile Suites (roughly 18,000 plus GVWR) with a 350/3500 series pickup.  After he was unable to stop at at traffic light, even with enough space to stop, he traded for a bigger truck.

If a larger truck is not preferable, you might consider a large Class C or a Class A motorhome with a towed vehicle as your "get-around" vehicle.

Good luck with all the research and planning.

Terry

Mary Sunshine wrote:

---

Again, great info everyone! I guess my question now would be... who would you say is the most popular manufacturer out there, and why? Money is not the issue, it's the floor plan. If we are going to full-time in the thing, I want to make sure it has a "spacious" feeling about it along with plenty of storage and great tank sizes, of course. There are soooo many manufacturers and models available nowadays, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to get everyone's opinions and reasoning. I realize it comes down to what we want, but your input is invaluable!

So grateful for all the information. Thank you!!!

---

Jo,

Keeping in mind that prices will be higher, the New Horizons would be top of the line.  Following those would be the DRV Suites models.  Keystone, Open Range, Redwood also make good models, but look at the quality of all parts, especially of the frame, suspension, and axles.  Those last three things serve as the very foundation of the fifth wheel trailers.  Scrimping there can have adverse effects later.

Jo and I will be full-timing for some time to come with our Mobile Suites.  Because of that, we have a Ford F450 for towing the fifth wheel and a Ford F150 as our "daily driver" as well as extra storage.  (We have an ARE pickup topper ordered to cover what is stored in the bed of the F150.)

When we finally get to travel, our plans are to not travel all that far when moving from one camping spot to the next so that driving two vehicles is not a problem.  In addition, having the second vehicle allows us to "scout" out RV sites or access to fuel stations for the tow vehicle and trailer.

Terry

Mary,

You may wish to subscribe to RV Consumer Group (http://rv.org/) -- personally, I found the subcription to be invaluable, to help further focus our research on the RV manufactures that would best meet our needs. That way you can look at the quality as well as price range that would best meet your needs.

Oh, my goodness, Bill.  Maybe I misspoke!  I just looked up the New Horizons and, um, can't justify starting out at that much.    Also, throughout my research I have read that 2-axles are better than 3.  I do not recall the exact reason(s), but it has something to do with turning, I suppose?  While the NH looked really nice, I'm just wondering if you might have something a little more moderate in mind? 

Mary Sunshine wrote:

Second, I have fallen in love with the Forest River Columbus 320RS by Palomino. This particular unit has a GVWR of 14,015 lbs. and is a fabulous unit, as far as I can tell.

Mary,

I was just getting ready to post the same question!  DSW and I went to our first RV show in '09 and fell in like with the Montana 3400RL.  That had been my RV Dream until the RV show we went to this spring.  There, we found the Columbus 320RS.  There were two things that really grabbed my attention.  One: the leather theater seating that actually faced the TV.  Two: The 30X60 shower!  I'm 6'3" and weigh in around 190.  Some of the showers in these RV's are so cramped I can hardly move so the big shower was a real selling point.  Also, the price was right and the wife liked the rollaway kitchen island.  This brand was new for 2012.  I'm hoping that when we're ready to hit the road in '15 (or maybe '14 ) there will be some nice used '13's out there.  BTW, the 'shipping' weight is 10,600.  Whatever we get, we will most likely be towing it with a GM 3500, DRW, Duramax.

Wate a minute.  I just posted this comment about an RV under the Tow Vehicles thread.  I appologize and won't do it again....but it was a reply.

Vance

I do realize we have gotten a little off message.  Sorry Howard!  But, let me say this.  We also fell in love with the 320RS at the Houston RV show earlier this year.  Based on previous comments, I guess I'll have to wear my overalls the next time we take a look-see and get under the unit myself.  (No doubt my DH will be there with me!)  But I love the set-up of the 320RS for the same reasons... theater seating ACROSS FROM the TV, the island, plenty of storage everywhere, the large counter space next to the stove and on both sides of the kitchen sink, AND my husband is also 6'-3".  The shower fits him well and does not "give" when he's in it.  That is one of the things HE looks for.  So, it seems we have a lot in common.  But, we still have time to decide and, who knows, we could change our mind between now and then.  It seems like a quality coach, but I get the feeling others lean the other way for understandable reasons.  I'm also thinking that if Berkshire invested in this company, surely it has quality products?  I'm all open for advice, and will not turn any of it down!

Mary Sunshine wrote:

---

Oh, my goodness, Bill.  Maybe I misspoke!  I just looked up the New Horizons and, um, can't justify starting out at that much.    Also, throughout my research I have read that 2-axles are better than 3.  I do not recall the exact reason(s), but it has something to do with turning, I suppose?  While the NH looked really nice, I'm just wondering if you might have something a little more moderate in mind? 

---

Mary:

Well, I told you New Horizons was not for the faint of wallet. {Grin}  Anyway, two axles are not better or worse than three.  The number of axle is determined by the weight capacity of the trailer.  You don’t want three if two is adequate and you don’t want two if you need three.  Turning is another discussion, but the short version is that most three axle trailers are longer therefore they take more room to turn naturally and there is a more of a tire scrubbing the road issue in tight turns with three than two.  But if the trailer needs three axles the scrubbing issue is really a moot point.  Ya gotta have axles and tires to carry the load as required.

There is a lot of game out there – just select wisely and look under the rig as well as in the rig.  A number of rigs that might meet your needs were listed  but it just depends on your budget and desires.  My choices might be somewhat different for different reasons.  It just depends on your criteria - it depends.  For a number of engineerning reasons and based on your posts as well as other factors I would look at NuWa as well but I'm guessing about your criteria.

Do enjoy the hunt

Bill

I thought I had my research almost completed, but after reading this thread and many other sources on MDTs and HDTs, I suspect I may need to reconsider going to a high end MDT or lower end HDT. The goal is a customized 43' DRV Mobile Suites (for full timing). I don't know yet what the weight will be, but it WILL be one of the heavier models.

Until now, I had been considering the Ford F450, but I am now prepared to do a bit more research into the HDT trucks (admittedly, being very intimidated by them). With that in mind, WHERE DO I START??? I am not at all familiar with any of the manufacturers or models (actually, I've heard of Volvo and Freightliner).   For example, for the size I had in mind, I was able to narrow it down to Ford F450/550, or Dodge 3500.  What are the next models up I should be considering?  And where is the most likely place I would find those models used?  Would it be possible to find something in those models, in good condition, in the $30K range?

Can anyone provide a list of makes/models I should be investigating? I'm hoping I won't need a semi or a truck that can also pass for a MH -- just something I can install a good hitch on that is heavy duty enough without worry.  For now, we are planning to have a scout vehicle, so the truck wouldn't be what we use for sight seeing or local drives.

More information if it's helpful -- we probably would travel every 2-3 weeks and don't plan to go farther than 200 miles at a time (of course, there may occasionally need to be exceptions to the rule, if we HAVE to be at a certain place at a given time, but I would hope we'd have enough advance notice to take our time getting there).  We do plan on seeing as much of the country as we can (over the course of the rest of our lives), which means beaches, mountains, deserts -- pretty much any types of conditions where we're able to drive.

Thanks for your help!

Thanks! I am reading Jack's write up now. Thank you Jack!!!

UPDATE:  Jack - the links pointing to a description of the MDTs don't work.

A definitive source is right in this thread.  Jack Mayer.  He also has an extremely good condition, I’ve been in it, Volvo HDT perfect for your purpose and it is for sale.  It current pulls a NH 42' 5er.  Or Jack can provide information should the truck not be exactly what you want - but it probably is.

He can direct you to other sources and is extremely knowledgeable on this issue.

http://www.jackdanmayer.com/

jackdanmayer@gmail.com

Bill

Cheryl,

I wouldn't completely rule out the Ford F450 as yet.  According to what Jack has said in the past, the F450 can be used to tow some of the New Horizon fifth wheels and they may even be as heavy as the 43' DRV's.  If you go to DRV's website and click on the link for the 43-footers, when you click on a floor plan, there are specifications for the trailers, which includes showing that all of the 43's have a GVWR of 23,000 lbs.  I would venture that the 43's could be pulled by the F450, but I'm not sure of how much leeway you would have weight-wise between the trucks GCVW and the weight of the trailer.

Sadly, I'm not sure what the GVWR is for the New Horizon models.  If you can contact Jack Mayer, he can give you a lot more information

Terry

Thanks Terry.  Just trying to get all my ducks in a row so that when I sell the house, I'll be ready to make my purchases rather than spending time then trying to figure out what I need.

Budget allowing, I hope to get a modified Suites using the Atlanta rear with the Phoenix desk setup (substituting the bunk with another desk) and the Lexington living room/kitchen layout.  I'd probably go for the LG countertops rather than corian to save some money and weight.

Full-time RVing Family-wannabees wrote:

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Wow! This has certainly been an educational thread to read considering how many topics it has covered that i am faced with deciding on in the short term. 

 ...  Anyways, I also was looking at the F-450/550 ...
Cheers, Jef

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 Jef,

If it is helpful, since this thread was started, Dodge RAM has released an updated version of the 3500 HD with increased towing capabilities. We will likely purchase the 2014 RAM 3500 in several months, when we order our RV. I found everyone's suggestions and comments in this thread invaluable, which helped us decide on the RAM 3500 (versus the Ford 450 or 550). Further information can be found on the following forum thread http://rv-dreams.activeboard.com/t53424737/2013-ram-hd-the-king-of-towing-at-30000-pounds/ about the RAM 3500.

Full-time RVing Family-wannabees wrote:

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So I guess my question is stemming from not having much experience behind the wheel of larger vehicles on a day to day level, even tho I do have a Class 1 DL, are these MDT's only available in WRD and if so how do they perform in less than ideal road conditions of ice and snow? I do not see myself stepping up to a full HDT as I have 2 small kids that like to be looking out the windows and such. Thanks for any further guidance you may offer on this topic.

Cheers, Jef

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Jef:

The 2 wheel vs. 4 wheel drive thing is an age old “discussion.”  I’m a 4 wheel drive guy and in your neck of the woods, Canada, in which I have traveled extensively including the NWT, I would have 4 wheel drive – period.  Actually I would have it in the US – also period. Some say they don’t need it, but read on . . .

I can give you details in a PM if you like, but the short version is when traveling with others driving 2 wheel drive MDT’s, they were getting stuck and had to be pulled out by the 4 wheel drive guys.   One 2 wheeler required a CAT D-9 dozer to get him out.  So with a bunch of miles “up there” I strongly recommend 4 wheel drive.  It’s like a spare tire – you don’t need it till you do and then you need it a lot.  The cost and weight additions are not significant, IMO, in making any difference in the big picture of the RV project.

So that’s just one’s view with experience.

Welcome to the forum.

Bill

Jef,

First of all, welcome to the RV Dreams forums.  While we are mostly made up of U.S. citizens, I can say that we all value the knowledge of our Canadian members, if for nothing more than knowledge of where to go and where to avoid in Canada.  Driving through Colorado a few years ago, we turned off on a well marked and defined highway to head toward Aspen (I think that is the right town) and about 200 yards up that road was a sign that said "No Vehicles Over 28 Feet in Length."  Had we been in an RV, that would have necessitated that we back up the rig for over 200 yards.  Some folks wouldn't appreciate that dilemma.

Anyway, feel free to ask all the questions that come to mind as we all learn from each other, and each questioner's questions may bring a different perspective to even an old topic.  We also look forward to your comments and advice about Canada.

As for your username, if you have another in mind, contact Howard and Linda.  As administrators, they have the "authority" to be able to change your username for the forums.  Even as a moderator, I don't have the authority or the "tools" within the software to affect the change for you.  You can contact Howard by using the "Messaging" feature of the forums.  Simply find a place where he has made a comment and click on his username.  You will be taken to another "page" which is his "profile."  At the bottom of the profile area is a link that says "Send Message."  Click on that and you'll have a format similar to the forum posts to make your request.  Don't forget to put a title in the message title area.

As for the truck, you may have a dilemma.  With your reference to low 20K trailer, would that also include the convertible within the trailer?  If it is, a Ford F450 may be your best bet for the weight capacity that it has.  Any of the MDT's and HDT's are only going to be 2WD because the only 4WD tractors that I know of are used in the oil patch and those definitely aren't built for comfort for a family.  A fifth wheel manufacturer called New Horizons builds trailers that are in excess of 20,000 lbs and they do say that "some" of their models can be pulled with a Ford F450.  In fact, we have a member that has a New Horizons and F450.  Hopefully, they will see this and can give you an idea of their rig and its capabilities.

At any rate, watch the weights of rigs and the weight capacities of the trucks and do not go by a manufacturer's "Tow Rating."  Those aren't of much value.

Welcome to the family.

Terry

Terry and Jo wrote:

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As for the truck, you may have a dilemma.  With your reference to low 20K trailer, would that also include the convertible within the trailer?  If it is, a Ford F450 may be your best bet for the weight capacity that it has.  Any of the MDT's and HDT's are only going to be 2WD because the only 4WD tractors that I know of are used in the oil patch and those definitely aren't built for comfort for a family.  A fifth wheel manufacturer called New Horizons builds trailers that are in excess of 20,000 lbs and they do say that "some" of their models can be pulled with a Ford F450.  In fact, we have a member that has a New Horizons and F450.  Hopefully, they will see this and can give you an idea of their rig and its capabilities.

 

Terry

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Terry:

Let’s clarify our terms.  You, if I recall correctly, you have always referred to your F-450 as a MDT truck – albeit a “light” MDT. You did in response to one of my posts.  33K GCVWR with a 4.88 rear-end if I recall correctly.  So is the F-550 a MDT because both it and the F-450 meet the 14,000 GVW capacities to be classified as an "MDT."  So by definition you can purchase an MDT with the “MDT” capability, by specifications, with 4 wheel drive.  Which, if I needed one, I would do – purchase one of those trucks that is.  Indeed, New Horizons and Forks, for two, need MDT or "better" trucks and depending on model you can get and MDT with 4 wheel drive off the showroom floor, put in a hitch and tow.  (Actually, I think Ford is now selling a 25K hitch as a "Ford" option from the dealer.)

"Just saying"

Bill