I saw a thread about the requirement for a commercial license, but my Q is about the vehicle registration. I noticed that in Florida, for example, any vehicle weighing more than 5,000 lbs is required to be registered as commercial.
We haven't picked out our 5'er yet, but it'll be in the area of 18,000 - 22,000 lbs. Most likely we're looking at a Ford F350 or even F450 (or similar model from Dodge or Chevy) which weigh far more than that.
What are some experiences you folks have had with registering and driving a commercial vehicle? Is a commercial license required if you drive a comm'l vehicle that's not used for business purposes? What about places you're prohibited to drive or park?
Thanks for sharing.
The Bear II said
12:18 AM Feb 24, 2012
Each State will be a little different.
In California any vehicle over 8600 GVW requires commercial plates. A commercial license is required if the vehicle is used for commercial purposes or has a gross capacity above a specified weight (I can't remember the amount).
We have a 15,000 lb 5th wheel, towed with a Chevy C4500 and I don't need a commercial license. I also don't have to stop at weigh stations eventhough my truck has commercial plates. It's not for hire so non-commercial.
RVRon said
03:45 AM Feb 24, 2012
cherylbrv wrote:
Hi,
I saw a thread about the requirement for a commercial license, but my Q is about the vehicle registration. I noticed that in Florida, for example, any vehicle weighing more than 5,000 lbs is required to be registered as commercial.
We haven't picked out our 5'er yet, but it'll be in the area of 18,000 - 22,000 lbs. Most likely we're looking at a Ford F350 or even F450 (or similar model from Dodge or Chevy) which weigh far more than that.
What are some experiences you folks have had with registering and driving a commercial vehicle? Is a commercial license required if you drive a comm'l vehicle that's not used for business purposes? What about places you're prohibited to drive or park?
Thanks for sharing.
We live in Florida and have never heard of commercial registration on a recreational vehicle. I believe both the commercial registration and driver's license requirements are waived with RV's. Our motorhome has a GVWR of 20,700 lbs and it does not have a commercial tag on it.
cherylbrv said
04:58 AM Feb 24, 2012
Thanks. I was referring to the tow truck, not the fifth wheel. "Trucks weighing more than 5,000 lbs are registered as commercial vehicles and initial registration is approximately $225.00." from http://www.goodsammail.com/# (under Florida facts, vehicle registration).
Howard said
04:49 PM Feb 24, 2012
Cheryl,
Many states register pick-ups as "commercial" based solely on the weight of the truck. There is a presumption that larger pick-ups are used for commercial purposes. As others have said, the states vary by what weight they consider to be the cut-off.
Some states use a 10,000 lb Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) limit. In weighing pick-ups and learning about the industry, we've noticed that the pick-up truck manufacturers seem to "fudge" the GVWR on pick-ups. It is often inexplainably much lower than the total of the axle weight ratings. I have nothing to back this up, but it appears that manufacturers try to keep their trucks from being registered as "commercial" based on the GVWRs we see. It works is some states, but not in others.
Some states allow you to "rebut the presumption" and get passenger plates, but many don't.
They often charge higher registration fees/taxes for larger pick-ups and that may be reasonable considering the extra weight on the roads.
A commercial license is certainly not required just because a truck is registered "commercial" based on the GVWR.
Now, one issue we have run into is that the county where our truck is registered tries to collect small business taxes every year simply because their records show our truck is registered as "commercial" because of its weight. And every year we send them the same letter back telling them our truck isn't used for commercial purposes and we ask them to change their records.
If you can get the truck registered as a passenger (or non-commercial) vehicle, it can save some bucks, but in the overall scheme of things, it's usually not too big a deal.
cherylbrv said
04:55 PM Feb 24, 2012
Thanks, Howard. My concern really wasn't so much about the extra money for registration (although every penny counts!), but where one is allowed and prohibited from driving a commercial vehicle. I'm not sure about the rest of the country yet, but in NY and NJ, commercial vehicles are not allowed to drive on Parkways, although RVs and buses are allowed to.
And while I'm on the subject of driving, here's another (sort of) related question -- what rule of thumb is followed when the state motor vehicle laws are different? I assume the state of registration, not the state you're currently driving in? For example, in NJ you need a motorcycle license to ride a scooter or moped that goes above 40 mph. For argument's sake, let's say that only a car license is needed in FL. If I register the scooter in FL and drive it in NJ, will I get into trouble for not having a motorcycle license?
FD5 said
04:46 AM Mar 24, 2012
I had heard all kinds of info on this so I emailed the DOT Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration:
We purchased a 2006 Freightliner M2, 4 door Business Class truck to tow our 5th wheel travel trailer. The commercial hitch has been removed and replaced with an air ride 32K TrailerSaver hitch. This vehicle will be used for private use only. Do I need a Commercial Driver's License (CDL)?
Received this response: Mr. Hatch—my apologies for not getting back to you previously. The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations apply to persons engaged in furtherance of a commercial enterprise. So if you use your vehicle for personal use, you would not be subject to the safety regulations. The CDL requirements are administered by individual states. Some states, regardless of the vehicle’s use, require CDLs for some equipment.
Matthew P Fix Division Administrator
I then contacted the Mississippi DOT with same vehicle info and asked them. I was told Mississippi DOT does not require a CDL for private use/recreational vehicles. I was also told that nothing needs to be written on the doors.
Please research your state.
Bill and Linda said
02:55 PM Mar 24, 2012
cherylbrv wrote:
For argument's sake, let's say that only a car license is needed in FL. If I register the scooter in FL and drive it in NJ, will I get into trouble for not having a motorcycle license?
No, you won’t.As pertains to the driver’s license, the laws of the state that issues it govern the rules for the use or need of a particular class of license. For example, in my state I needed a non-CDL Class “A” license for my rig. If I resided in Howard’s home state I don’t. A regular driver’s license is all that is required.It depends on the state that is issuing the license. (However, I carry a copy of my states laws with me just in case I need to "discuss" it with someone.)
However and sort of related, the state in which you are driving determines some of the limitations on the rig.For example, the overall height of the rig allowed is determined by the state in which you are driving.Same of “towing doubles”
As to the commercial designation, Howard, as usual, is very correct as pertains to the GVWR of the vehicles.Only the vehicle manufacture can determine the GVWR number and for some of the new pickups (and old in some cases) that GVWR is lower than what the truck is actually (safely) capable of carrying. That keeps the new 3500HD and the like pickups below the magic number (14,000lbs) that make them a Medium Duty Truck (MDT) and hence, in some cases, more expensive to license and to insure. (This has been discussed elsewhere in the Forum.)
At the same time some insurance companies will not insure a “private use” MDT.They require it be from a “commercial” carrier.This is sometimes where the “commercial” word pops up.Insurance vs. licensing vs. tag registration – “It depends”; you just have to check on the state in which you plan to legally reside and do your own personal research to get the facts correct.
Hope this helps and not confuse more
Bill
Bill and Linda said
03:06 PM Mar 24, 2012
FD5 wrote: The CDL requirements are administered by individual states. Some states, regardless of the vehicle’s use, require CDLs for some equipment.
Matthew P Fix Division Administrator
Please research your state.
And to follow, some states require a non-CDL but a higher “class” of license.Mine for example requires a “Class-A” non-CDL. The class “A” is for “semis” which is what a heavier 5er is by definition. It is the same written and (sort of) driving test as for a CDL, but is for private use only.I.e. you are not being paid to drive and don’t have to keep log books, etc.
The driving test is in the class / type of vehicle (i.e. my 5th wheel) required for the license but does not require the same extensive “pre-trip inspection” required of all CDL operations.
Again – it depends.There is no single answer. BTW, my local DMV didn’t have a clue as to what I was applying for.I had to call the state and find out from the Director what DMV / DL office had enough knowledge of the law to give me the correct test.They all thought I wanted a CDL – and didn’t really know what a Class “A” private was.
Bill
The Junkman said
05:33 PM Sep 15, 2014
I know this is a old thread..Just wanted to post and let you know.. If you don't know already. Just registered and became a resident of Florida.
Being my 3500 is just over 8000lbs.. They ask what your gvw will be with your trailer attached.. Being my trailer has a mfg cap at 23k.. and now we are combined over 26k.. Your reg fees triple each year.. From about $125 to $400 ... AND you need to maintain at least 100k liability on the truck.
You can opt out at your own risk.. which I did, as I did not have enough liability on my policy.. but will. But if I get caught towing it, I could get hefty fines I guess ... they said.
Also.. It's different plates for the higher weight.. and you get 2 for truck.. versus one the other way..after I up the insurance, I must bring in the old plate, and replace it with 2.
just fyi.. Citrus county FL..
cherylbrv said
08:12 AM Sep 16, 2014
Welcome, fellow Floridian! I did discover that we did not need commercial licenses. Other than the expensive registration fees, it was a piece of cake with no special requirements. Odd about the plates - we only needed 2: 1 for the truck and 1 for the RV.
The Junkman said
02:17 PM Sep 16, 2014
cherylbrv wrote:
Welcome, fellow Floridian! I did discover that we did not need commercial licenses. Other than the expensive registration fees, it was a piece of cake with no special requirements. Odd about the plates - we only needed 2: 1 for the truck and 1 for the RV.
What is your combined gvw? And the weight of your truck.. Did they ask you what GVW you wanted to register for? They should have..
In Florida, You register what you want to be covered for.. I registered the truck at 10k.. was cheap.. But after reading I could get fined ( no body I can ever find has ) . I am going back tomarrow and registering the truck at 34999.. That's the max in that weight class, And more than I need pulling my set up. But will be covered.. if I'm over truck and rv weights..
I think it only applies if your over 26000 gvw..
MarkS said
08:43 PM Sep 16, 2014
Something sounds a wee bit fishy. You don't register a commercial vehicle based on the weight you think you might weigh. You register it based on the maximum capabilities of the truck. Three axle class 8 is 80K. Two axle can be 54k or 80k depending on configuration. Lighter two axle trucks are typically 26k and some oddball configurations are thrown in for good measure.
Florida has some different rules. For example, I can't register my class 8 there at all except commercial. I don't know of any typical pickups being registered as commercial. Knowing the liability connotation that goes with commercial I would avoid commercial tags of any type. I spent a lot of years in Florida and the only pick ups with commercial tags had logos on the side.
The Junkman said
06:26 AM Sep 17, 2014
Yep.. it's messed up. Will be getting the plates today, maybe tomarrow. Getting up later and later..lol
Maybe it's still regular with special plates and special insurance.. I don't know. Adding the insurance today, and going down there.
yea, 2 axles pickup under 26k.. is normal.. Being my truck weighs over 8k curb weight , they ask what will your gvw with the tow rv.. In my case it would be 31k.. 34999 is the same price, so they bump me to there .. for some extra.
You still don't need a commercial type license.. just the special plates and insurance. They said this is not new.. and the research I did.. Other states do the same thing.
If I get stopped and weighed, and not registered for that weight..you are ticketed. Period.
He said some where down here on 19.. everyone has to hit the scales.. even pickup.. Places like that will be the issue.
Many, many people don't do it. And run with out the added registations.. because of the money I suppose. For maybe a added $500 a year.. I don't think I will risk issues on the road.
with net weight of 8000 lbs. up and truck-tractors, the GVW is calculated by adding the net weight of the truck or truck-tractor and its load to the net
weight of the trailer and its load"
Thr RAM is classified as a "heavy truck" because of it's weight.. Same as a tractor trailer.. That sucks..
-- Edited by The Junkman on Wednesday 17th of September 2014 06:33:59 AM
-- Edited by The Junkman on Wednesday 17th of September 2014 06:38:16 AM
Gannet said
11:06 AM Sep 17, 2014
Wow. Motor home people get off easy.
MarkS said
11:19 AM Sep 17, 2014
I knew Florida had some quirks. Back when I was a ute, you know, when we had to crank the cars from the front... All vehicles in FL were by weight. It was cheaper to register a Volkswagen than it was to register a Lincoln. I was brand new in the Air Force so all we could afford was a mule. Those were good days.
Terry and Jo said
12:28 PM Sep 17, 2014
Every state will likely be somewhat different. We just registered our fifth wheel and two trucks in Colorado since we have moved here for a while.
Both the F150 and F450 was of a weight (not GVWR) that could let both be classified as "recreational truck," thus registered at a lower cost than as either a "regular" truck or as a commercial one.
As far as our insurance was concerned, we had renewed our insurance for Oklahoma because our first year expired before we actually moved. When we went to change the insurance over to Colorado, it appears we could be saving close to $1200 between the two states for the insurance policies on the three vehicles/RV. We are currently waiting for a "refund" of our Oklahoma policy.
Terry
The Junkman said
02:37 PM Sep 17, 2014
MarkS wrote:
I knew Florida had some quirks. Back when I was a ute, you know, when we had to crank the cars from the front... All vehicles in FL were by weight. It was cheaper to register a Volkswagen than it was to register a Lincoln. I was brand new in the Air Force so all we could afford was a mule. Those were good days.
Ok.. got the new reg today..
Technically it's not commercial..
I have 2 plates now... versus one. The one with the reg sticker goes on the front.. So they can see it while towing.
This is a federal law. not state. And it's up to you to declare your gvw.
Everyone is asked at DMV.. and I expect most just put in the gvw for the truck.. That makes you illegal if pulling over the weight you have registered for. Everywhere.. Although, I can't find any who has gottton a ticket, or even stopped for it. But some say times may be be changing.. so I paid like $450 for 2 years at the 34,999 lb level. I can now legally pull up to that in all 50 states.. ( of course if your truck is rated for that )
I am also consider a HDT. Heavy duty truck by Florida Dmv. And have had to up my insurance liability..
What's next?
Glenn West said
05:11 PM Sep 17, 2014
In Texas a LDT is a LDT. Glad we didn't choose Florida
The Junkman said
05:22 PM Sep 17, 2014
Glenn West wrote:
In Texas a LDT is a LDT. Glad we didn't choose Florida
Not true.. Better read the rules in texas..
Texas does the same.. they call it " weight based registration fees" .. Same thing..
Like I said.. pretty sure it's federal.. although some state don't follow it.. Looks like texas does.. Time to go pay some more money, and up your insurance..lol
26k to 40k gvw is $340/yr in texas..
good luck
-- Edited by The Junkman on Wednesday 17th of September 2014 05:24:21 PM
Glenn West said
06:37 PM Sep 17, 2014
been there done that. Standard tags and I even asked them about it. Told them what i was towing. Said weight of truck only. I lost argument and was glad.
The Junkman said
06:44 PM Sep 17, 2014
Glenn West wrote:
been there done that. Standard tags and I even asked them about it. Told them what i was towing. Said weight of truck only. I lost argument and was glad.
Don't get caught.. Good luck with that.. Does not matter to me if your legal.
Unless your pulling with a f150 ? and your truck weighs less than 6k? ... Then this applies..
He should hav ask YOU what your GVW is.. You can tell him anything.. He don't care either..lol
The guy giving you the tickets, and maybe towing you, will...
From Texas dmv reg chart..2014
"The gross vehicle weight of a truck is determined by adding the empty weight of the vehicle and the heaviest load that will be carried by
the vehicle (carrying capacity) during the registration year."
The annual registration fee for a truck, with a gross vehicle weight of 6,001 lbs. – 10,000 lbs., is $54.00, plus applicable fees and local county
fees.
Note: The gross vehicle weight of a truck is determined by adding the empty weight of the vehicle and the heaviest load that will be carried by
the vehicle (carrying capacity) during the registration year.
WEIGHT BASED REGISTRATION FEES
Vehicles 10,001 lbs. or more will pay the following registration fee*, plus applicable and local county fees
10,001-18,000 lbs. $110.00
18,001-25,999 lbs. $205.00
26,000-40,000 lbs. $340.00
40,001-54,999 lbs. $535.00
55,000-70,000 lbs. $740.00
70,001-80,000 lbs. $840.00
Over 80,000 lbs. Varies
*Does not include diesel fees for commercial vehicles.
-- Edited by The Junkman on Wednesday 17th of September 2014 06:48:36 PM
MarkS said
08:31 PM Sep 17, 2014
I read about this as much as I could in the limited time I had. This is not federal. Federal doesn't govern auto registration, commercial or non-commercial. Federal only deals with safety.
You should check to see if you have to pay heavy use tax. For a semi it is $550 a year. The amount is based on weight.
Your tag is based on the GCVW. If your 3500 isn't rated for a GCVW of 40k pounds, you shouldn't be able to license it for that. That being said, I saw a commercial car hauler today using a 3500 DRW to pull a fifth wheel car hauler with a 40 sticker on the side. If his truck weighs 8k he can safely haul 32k in trailer and cargo.
IMO, commercial tags do not belong on a vehicle not involved in commercial enterprise.
The Junkman said
09:18 PM Sep 17, 2014
I'm not really sure what it is.. lol
dmv guy said it was federal, and that not all states use it...He had recently been trained on it, and was very knowledgeable.
They said I had to pay.. I said no.. registered it regular.. came home looked up.. and seen he was telling me the truth.. checked other states, and they have it too..
So I went back and paid the money.. to be on the safe side..
My reg is to 34999 lbs.. They will register to what ever weight you want..If your truck weighs over 8k... your money.
Texas looks to be the same deal.. and if you look around.. I bet many states have it.
The Junkman said
09:39 PM Sep 17, 2014
I think they are charging as commerical... and exempting all RV's.. As it says on my license.. all not commerical trucks under 26k.. or any RVs.. You can drive a rv of any weight.. if you pay for it.
Glenn West said
07:07 AM Sep 18, 2014
Steve I argued the same thing with them. They pulled out the law and showed me recreational vehicles exempt. I shut up. It was same when I was in NC also. Everyone was getting mticketed for pulling trailers with their 150s and standard tags. Had to have weighted tags. But law plainly stated recreational vehicles exempt.
-- Edited by Glenn West on Thursday 18th of September 2014 07:10:10 AM
The Junkman said
07:43 AM Sep 18, 2014
Glenn West wrote:
Steve I argued the same thing with them. They pulled out the law and showed me recreational vehicles exempt. I shut up. It was same when I was in NC also. Everyone was getting mticketed for pulling trailers with their 150s and standard tags. Had to have weighted tags. But law plainly stated recreational vehicles exempt.
-- Edited by Glenn West on Thursday 18th of September 2014 07:10:10 AM
Prove it...lol Show us weight based registration is not for recreational vehicles.. Talk is cheap.
I think others may need the info.. if it's different than what I said/posted.
Recreational Vehicles are only exempt from being Commercial and the need for a CDL.. Not the registration fees.. That is how I read it, in 3 states I've looked at.
In FL, This does not kick in til your truck weighs over 8k.. So F150.. I bet f250's.. even reg cab, srw f350's would not hit that mark.. they would be regular registration.
I bet, No one has seen much of these, because til the RAM 3500 came out.. There was no light duty truck that fell into the HDT weigh catagory.. ( over 8000 lb curb weight ).. Looks like in tx though, it starts at 6000 lbs ?
Not arguing. I don't care.. But I know many may be confused on this, and maybe this will help.. at least peak the interest to evaluate it.
Best to just call your DMV and ask.
I almost just ran with standard reg too.. And I may, after this one expires.. but for now, I'll stay legal.
-- Edited by The Junkman on Thursday 18th of September 2014 07:45:24 AM
Glenn West said
07:49 AM Sep 18, 2014
steve just read registration laws on Texas. It plainly states carrying weight not towed weight.States most weight carried by truck itself." Note: The gross vehicle weight of a truck is determined by adding the empty weight of the vehicle and the heaviest load that will be carried by
the vehicle (carrying capacity) during the registration year." That is cut and paste right off form.
Glenn West said
08:05 AM Sep 18, 2014
by the way mine is $110.00. That covers me up to 18k in truck.
BiggarView said
08:33 AM Sep 18, 2014
The Junkman wrote:
....From Texas dmv reg chart..2014
"The gross vehicle weight of a truck is determined by adding the empty weight of the vehicle and the heaviest load that will be carried by
the vehicle (carrying capacity) during the registration year."
The annual registration fee for a truck, with a gross vehicle weight of 6,001 lbs. – 10,000 lbs., is $54.00, plus applicable fees and local county
fees.
Note: The gross vehicle weight of a truck is determined by adding the empty weight of the vehicle and the heaviest load that will be carried by
the vehicle (carrying capacity) during the registration year.
WEIGHT BASED REGISTRATION FEES
Vehicles 10,001 lbs. or more will pay the following registration fee*, plus applicable and local county fees
10,001-18,000 lbs. $110.00
...
-- Edited by The Junkman on Wednesday 17th of September 2014 06:48:36 PM
I bolded this part because, while not sure, there is a difference between carried and towed. My gut says Glenn is in compliance as most LDTs (3500HD, 450 or 550 or similar) will not tip the scales at over 18K even with a fairly heavy trailer on the pin. Now, GCVW is a different story.
Just my thoughts, I want to understand these distinctions also.
Brian
The Junkman said
08:34 AM Sep 18, 2014
Glenn West wrote:
steve just read registration laws on Texas. It plainly states carrying weight not towed weight.States most weight carried by truck itself." Note: The gross vehicle weight of a truck is determined by adding the empty weight of the vehicle and the heaviest load that will be carried by the vehicle (carrying capacity) during the registration year." That is cut and paste right off form.
Yep..In my my post above.. You must have missed it..
Now.. are you trying to say the truck is not carrying the trailer?
If so, try telling that to DMV.. lol, and all the tractor trailer drivers that must pay on the weight they are towing.. not what the truck can carry.. same thing.. to dmv.
Trying to twist the meaning of verbage will not work in court. These terms have been clearly defined by your states DMV , DOT and the feds..
Please call your dmv and speak to someone who is knowledgable.. My guess is your dmv teller had no clue..
Or better yet, call the folks who will ticket you.. they will know best.. DOT?
-- Edited by The Junkman on Thursday 18th of September 2014 08:42:11 AM
TRAILERKING said
08:42 AM Sep 18, 2014
Glenn West wrote:
................the empty weight of the vehicle ......................
The truck and trailer should be classed as "The Vehicle"
Glenn West said
08:55 AM Sep 18, 2014
i give up. I copied and pasted right off the law. It is carrying capacity of the truck. Plainly states take empty weight of truck and add the weight carried by the truck. All we are carrying is the pin weight and whats in the truck. www.txdmv.gov/reports-and-data/doc_download/919-texas-registration-fees
The Junkman said
08:56 AM Sep 18, 2014
This is texas law..
9.3 Trailer or Semitrailer Fees Transportation Code, Sec. 502.254. Fee: Trailer, Travel Trailer, or Semitrailer. (a) The fee for a registration year for registration of a trailer, travel trailer, or semitrailer with a gross weight of 6,000 pounds or less is $45.00. (b) The fee for a registration year for registration of a trailer, travel trailer, or semitrailer with a gross weight of more than 6,000 pounds is calculated by gross weight according to Section 502.253.
From the texas registration manual 2014. ( follow the link..right center of the page )
For other texans.. Have a look.. call dmv. or dot. I believe most do not pay these fees.. However, There is many posts of recent activity of stops all over. My guess, is this may start getting enforced in all states.
And one more thing.. I know Texas is argueing the CDL thing now.. I think Florida will follow.. As I am only a drivers license away from it.. the rest is already done.. small steps..
I'm done. good luck folks..
-- Edited by The Junkman on Thursday 18th of September 2014 09:33:52 AM
BiggarView said
09:04 AM Sep 18, 2014
Now you are talking about the registration fee for the trailer in TX. I thought we were discussing the truck and registration fees for it.
The Junkman said
09:39 AM Sep 18, 2014
This is Texas LAW. About the same as florida.
This is about registration fees.. still .. lol
Read it. I don't know.. And now i'm done. Now you have the texas law, and the link....you can educate your dmv teller..lol
Good luck.
TRANSPORTATION CODE
TITLE 7. VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC
SUBTITLE A. CERTIFICATES OF TITLE AND REGISTRATION OF VEHICLES
Sec. 502.254. FEE: TRAILER, TRAVEL TRAILER, OR SEMITRAILER. (a) The fee for a registration year for registration of a trailer, travel trailer, or semitrailer with a gross weight of 6,000 pounds or less is $45.00.
(b) The fee for a registration year for registration of a trailer, travel trailer, or semitrailer with a gross weight of more than 6,000 pounds is calculated by gross weight according to Section 502.253.
Sec. 502.253. FEE: VEHICLES THAT WEIGH MORE THAN 6,000 POUNDS. The fee for a registration year for registration of a vehicle with a gross weight of more than 6,000 pounds is as follows unless otherwise provided in this chapter:
Looks about the same as florida.. and other states..
BiggarView said
10:02 AM Sep 18, 2014
I would interpret the TX rates to mean for a setup such as yours, for example, as $110 for the truck (10001-18000lbs) and $205 for the trailer (18001-25999lbs) plus all local fees for both. TX, it seems, doesn't distinguish any class of vehicles or trailers once you reach 10001lbs except to determine fees by weight. Now a similar weight MH would be $340 plus local fees (26000-40000lbs)
If I read correctly. Florida, I have not looked at, others with more knowledge may add their two cents.
FWIW, Brian
on edit: sorry Terry for drifting off the original subject... even though relevant, somewhat. I suspect the fine line of commercial vs non-commercial specifically related to individual vehicle usage or for the drivers. Before you say it... I agree this should really be on it's own thread.
-- Edited by biggaRView on Thursday 18th of September 2014 10:27:14 AM
BiggarView said
11:00 AM Sep 18, 2014
I just took a peek at FL DMV, and again, if I understand correctly, since you are over the 5000 figure you have to use their GVW schedule(commercial or private... makes no difference), so your $343 number appears correct. Different states.. different ways of getting their pound of flesh from you but in the end it's relatively the same amount no matter how or what state you use to calculate it.
B
-- Edited by biggaRView on Thursday 18th of September 2014 11:01:09 AM
The Junkman said
01:21 PM Sep 18, 2014
biggaRView wrote:
I just took a peek at FL DMV, and again, if I understand correctly, since you are over the 5000 figure you have to use their GVW schedule(commercial or private... makes no difference), so your $343 number appears correct. Different states.. different ways of getting their pound of flesh from you but in the end it's relatively the same amount no matter how or what state you use to calculate it.
B
-- Edited by biggaRView on Thursday 18th of September 2014 11:01:09 AM
Yes. You are on the money. And glad you see what I see.
Thanks.
BiggarView said
04:48 AM Sep 19, 2014
The only thing I could not really make clear was if your trailer is considered part of your truck registration fee, as in you register truck and trailer under the same plates. If not, it seems to me, that trailer plate fees in FL would be nominal seeing as they are, for practical purposes, covered by the vehicle that will tow them. Personally, I prefer the TX methodology as it seems more transparent than FL but it's roughly the same either way in the big picture.
JHMO, Brian
-- Edited by biggaRView on Friday 19th of September 2014 04:59:35 AM
The Junkman said
05:55 AM Sep 19, 2014
Yea, It's the truck they ask the gvw on , and charge on. The trailer was like $30, normal fees..
The Junkman said
07:49 PM Sep 19, 2014
Just for the heck of it.. looked up a 2014 f450.. weight is the same as the 3500 ram. Just over 8k.. so the GVW law would apply .. just a fyi
Hi,
I saw a thread about the requirement for a commercial license, but my Q is about the vehicle registration. I noticed that in Florida, for example, any vehicle weighing more than 5,000 lbs is required to be registered as commercial.
We haven't picked out our 5'er yet, but it'll be in the area of 18,000 - 22,000 lbs. Most likely we're looking at a Ford F350 or even F450 (or similar model from Dodge or Chevy) which weigh far more than that.
What are some experiences you folks have had with registering and driving a commercial vehicle? Is a commercial license required if you drive a comm'l vehicle that's not used for business purposes? What about places you're prohibited to drive or park?
Thanks for sharing.
In California any vehicle over 8600 GVW requires commercial plates. A commercial license is required if the vehicle is used for commercial purposes or has a gross capacity above a specified weight (I can't remember the amount).
We have a 15,000 lb 5th wheel, towed with a Chevy C4500 and I don't need a commercial license. I also don't have to stop at weigh stations eventhough my truck has commercial plates. It's not for hire so non-commercial.
We live in Florida and have never heard of commercial registration on a recreational vehicle. I believe both the commercial registration and driver's license requirements are waived with RV's. Our motorhome has a GVWR of 20,700 lbs and it does not have a commercial tag on it.
Cheryl,
Many states register pick-ups as "commercial" based solely on the weight of the truck. There is a presumption that larger pick-ups are used for commercial purposes. As others have said, the states vary by what weight they consider to be the cut-off.
Some states use a 10,000 lb Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) limit. In weighing pick-ups and learning about the industry, we've noticed that the pick-up truck manufacturers seem to "fudge" the GVWR on pick-ups. It is often inexplainably much lower than the total of the axle weight ratings. I have nothing to back this up, but it appears that manufacturers try to keep their trucks from being registered as "commercial" based on the GVWRs we see. It works is some states, but not in others.
Some states allow you to "rebut the presumption" and get passenger plates, but many don't.
They often charge higher registration fees/taxes for larger pick-ups and that may be reasonable considering the extra weight on the roads.
A commercial license is certainly not required just because a truck is registered "commercial" based on the GVWR.
Now, one issue we have run into is that the county where our truck is registered tries to collect small business taxes every year simply because their records show our truck is registered as "commercial" because of its weight. And every year we send them the same letter back telling them our truck isn't used for commercial purposes and we ask them to change their records.
If you can get the truck registered as a passenger (or non-commercial) vehicle, it can save some bucks, but in the overall scheme of things, it's usually not too big a deal.
And while I'm on the subject of driving, here's another (sort of) related question -- what rule of thumb is followed when the state motor vehicle laws are different? I assume the state of registration, not the state you're currently driving in? For example, in NJ you need a motorcycle license to ride a scooter or moped that goes above 40 mph. For argument's sake, let's say that only a car license is needed in FL. If I register the scooter in FL and drive it in NJ, will I get into trouble for not having a motorcycle license?
We purchased a 2006 Freightliner M2, 4 door Business Class truck to tow our 5th wheel travel trailer. The commercial hitch has been removed and replaced with an air ride 32K TrailerSaver hitch. This vehicle will be used for private use only. Do I need a Commercial Driver's License (CDL)?
Received this response:
Mr. Hatch—my apologies for not getting back to you previously. The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations apply to persons engaged in furtherance of a commercial enterprise. So if you use your vehicle for personal use, you would not be subject to the safety regulations. The CDL requirements are administered by individual states. Some states, regardless of the vehicle’s use, require CDLs for some equipment.
Matthew P Fix
Division Administrator
I then contacted the Mississippi DOT with same vehicle info and asked them. I was told Mississippi DOT does not require a CDL for private use/recreational vehicles. I was also told that nothing needs to be written on the doors.
Please research your state.
No, you won’t. As pertains to the driver’s license, the laws of the state that issues it govern the rules for the use or need of a particular class of license. For example, in my state I needed a non-CDL Class “A” license for my rig. If I resided in Howard’s home state I don’t. A regular driver’s license is all that is required. It depends on the state that is issuing the license. (However, I carry a copy of my states laws with me just in case I need to "discuss" it with someone.)
However and sort of related, the state in which you are driving determines some of the limitations on the rig. For example, the overall height of the rig allowed is determined by the state in which you are driving. Same of “towing doubles”
As to the commercial designation, Howard, as usual, is very correct as pertains to the GVWR of the vehicles. Only the vehicle manufacture can determine the GVWR number and for some of the new pickups (and old in some cases) that GVWR is lower than what the truck is actually (safely) capable of carrying. That keeps the new 3500HD and the like pickups below the magic number (14,000lbs) that make them a Medium Duty Truck (MDT) and hence, in some cases, more expensive to license and to insure. (This has been discussed elsewhere in the Forum.)
At the same time some insurance companies will not insure a “private use” MDT. They require it be from a “commercial” carrier. This is sometimes where the “commercial” word pops up. Insurance vs. licensing vs. tag registration – “It depends”; you just have to check on the state in which you plan to legally reside and do your own personal research to get the facts correct.
Hope this helps and not confuse more
Bill
And to follow, some states require a non-CDL but a higher “class” of license. Mine for example requires a “Class-A” non-CDL. The class “A” is for “semis” which is what a heavier 5er is by definition. It is the same written and (sort of) driving test as for a CDL, but is for private use only. I.e. you are not being paid to drive and don’t have to keep log books, etc.
The driving test is in the class / type of vehicle (i.e. my 5th wheel) required for the license but does not require the same extensive “pre-trip inspection” required of all CDL operations.
Again – it depends. There is no single answer. BTW, my local DMV didn’t have a clue as to what I was applying for. I had to call the state and find out from the Director what DMV / DL office had enough knowledge of the law to give me the correct test. They all thought I wanted a CDL – and didn’t really know what a Class “A” private was.
Bill
Being my 3500 is just over 8000lbs.. They ask what your gvw will be with your trailer attached.. Being my trailer has a mfg cap at 23k.. and now we are combined over 26k.. Your reg fees triple each year.. From about $125 to $400 ... AND you need to maintain at least 100k liability on the truck.
You can opt out at your own risk.. which I did, as I did not have enough liability on my policy.. but will. But if I get caught towing it, I could get hefty fines I guess ... they said.
Also.. It's different plates for the higher weight.. and you get 2 for truck.. versus one the other way..after I up the insurance, I must bring in the old plate, and replace it with 2.
just fyi.. Citrus county FL..
What is your combined gvw? And the weight of your truck.. Did they ask you what GVW you wanted to register for? They should have..
In Florida, You register what you want to be covered for.. I registered the truck at 10k.. was cheap.. But after reading I could get fined ( no body I can ever find has ) . I am going back tomarrow and registering the truck at 34999.. That's the max in that weight class, And more than I need pulling my set up. But will be covered.. if I'm over truck and rv weights..
I think it only applies if your over 26000 gvw..
Florida has some different rules. For example, I can't register my class 8 there at all except commercial. I don't know of any typical pickups being registered as commercial. Knowing the liability connotation that goes with commercial I would avoid commercial tags of any type. I spent a lot of years in Florida and the only pick ups with commercial tags had logos on the side.
Maybe it's still regular with special plates and special insurance.. I don't know. Adding the insurance today, and going down there.
yea, 2 axles pickup under 26k.. is normal.. Being my truck weighs over 8k curb weight , they ask what will your gvw with the tow rv.. In my case it would be 31k.. 34999 is the same price, so they bump me to there .. for some extra.
You still don't need a commercial type license.. just the special plates and insurance. They said this is not new.. and the research I did.. Other states do the same thing.
If I get stopped and weighed, and not registered for that weight..you are ticketed. Period.
He said some where down here on 19.. everyone has to hit the scales.. even pickup.. Places like that will be the issue.
Many, many people don't do it. And run with out the added registations.. because of the money I suppose. For maybe a added $500 a year.. I don't think I will risk issues on the road.
Here's the rate chart..
www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/forms/BTR/83140.pdf
"For heavy trucks
with net weight of 8000 lbs. up and truck-tractors, the GVW is calculated by adding the net weight of the truck or truck-tractor and its load to the net
weight of the trailer and its load"
Thr RAM is classified as a "heavy truck" because of it's weight.. Same as a tractor trailer.. That sucks..
-- Edited by The Junkman on Wednesday 17th of September 2014 06:33:59 AM
-- Edited by The Junkman on Wednesday 17th of September 2014 06:38:16 AM
Every state will likely be somewhat different. We just registered our fifth wheel and two trucks in Colorado since we have moved here for a while.
Both the F150 and F450 was of a weight (not GVWR) that could let both be classified as "recreational truck," thus registered at a lower cost than as either a "regular" truck or as a commercial one.
As far as our insurance was concerned, we had renewed our insurance for Oklahoma because our first year expired before we actually moved. When we went to change the insurance over to Colorado, it appears we could be saving close to $1200 between the two states for the insurance policies on the three vehicles/RV. We are currently waiting for a "refund" of our Oklahoma policy.
Terry
Ok.. got the new reg today..
Technically it's not commercial..
I have 2 plates now... versus one. The one with the reg sticker goes on the front.. So they can see it while towing.
This is a federal law. not state. And it's up to you to declare your gvw.
Everyone is asked at DMV.. and I expect most just put in the gvw for the truck.. That makes you illegal if pulling over the weight you have registered for. Everywhere.. Although, I can't find any who has gottton a ticket, or even stopped for it. But some say times may be be changing.. so I paid like $450 for 2 years at the 34,999 lb level. I can now legally pull up to that in all 50 states.. ( of course if your truck is rated for that )
I am also consider a HDT. Heavy duty truck by Florida Dmv. And have had to up my insurance liability..
What's next?
Not true.. Better read the rules in texas..
Texas does the same.. they call it " weight based registration fees" .. Same thing..
Like I said.. pretty sure it's federal.. although some state don't follow it.. Looks like texas does.. Time to go pay some more money, and up your insurance..lol
26k to 40k gvw is $340/yr in texas..
good luck
-- Edited by The Junkman on Wednesday 17th of September 2014 05:24:21 PM
Don't get caught.. Good luck with that.. Does not matter to me if your legal.
Unless your pulling with a f150 ? and your truck weighs less than 6k? ... Then this applies..
He should hav ask YOU what your GVW is.. You can tell him anything.. He don't care either..lol
The guy giving you the tickets, and maybe towing you, will...
From Texas dmv reg chart..2014
"The gross vehicle weight of a truck is determined by adding the empty weight of the vehicle and the heaviest load that will be carried by
the vehicle (carrying capacity) during the registration year."
The annual registration fee for a truck, with a gross vehicle weight of 6,001 lbs. – 10,000 lbs., is $54.00, plus applicable fees and local county
fees.
Note: The gross vehicle weight of a truck is determined by adding the empty weight of the vehicle and the heaviest load that will be carried by
the vehicle (carrying capacity) during the registration year.
WEIGHT BASED REGISTRATION FEES
Vehicles 10,001 lbs. or more will pay the following registration fee*, plus applicable and local county fees
10,001-18,000 lbs. $110.00
18,001-25,999 lbs. $205.00
26,000-40,000 lbs. $340.00
40,001-54,999 lbs. $535.00
55,000-70,000 lbs. $740.00
70,001-80,000 lbs. $840.00
Over 80,000 lbs. Varies
*Does not include diesel fees for commercial vehicles.
-- Edited by The Junkman on Wednesday 17th of September 2014 06:48:36 PM
You should check to see if you have to pay heavy use tax. For a semi it is $550 a year. The amount is based on weight.
Your tag is based on the GCVW. If your 3500 isn't rated for a GCVW of 40k pounds, you shouldn't be able to license it for that. That being said, I saw a commercial car hauler today using a 3500 DRW to pull a fifth wheel car hauler with a 40 sticker on the side. If his truck weighs 8k he can safely haul 32k in trailer and cargo.
IMO, commercial tags do not belong on a vehicle not involved in commercial enterprise.
dmv guy said it was federal, and that not all states use it...He had recently been trained on it, and was very knowledgeable.
They said I had to pay.. I said no.. registered it regular.. came home looked up.. and seen he was telling me the truth.. checked other states, and they have it too..
So I went back and paid the money.. to be on the safe side..
My reg is to 34999 lbs.. They will register to what ever weight you want..If your truck weighs over 8k... your money.
Texas looks to be the same deal.. and if you look around.. I bet many states have it.
Steve I argued the same thing with them. They pulled out the law and showed me recreational vehicles exempt. I shut up. It was same when I was in NC also. Everyone was getting mticketed for pulling trailers with their 150s and standard tags. Had to have weighted tags. But law plainly stated recreational vehicles exempt.
-- Edited by Glenn West on Thursday 18th of September 2014 07:10:10 AM
Prove it...lol Show us weight based registration is not for recreational vehicles.. Talk is cheap.
I think others may need the info.. if it's different than what I said/posted.
Recreational Vehicles are only exempt from being Commercial and the need for a CDL.. Not the registration fees.. That is how I read it, in 3 states I've looked at.
In FL, This does not kick in til your truck weighs over 8k.. So F150.. I bet f250's.. even reg cab, srw f350's would not hit that mark.. they would be regular registration.
I bet, No one has seen much of these, because til the RAM 3500 came out.. There was no light duty truck that fell into the HDT weigh catagory.. ( over 8000 lb curb weight ).. Looks like in tx though, it starts at 6000 lbs ?
Not arguing. I don't care.. But I know many may be confused on this, and maybe this will help.. at least peak the interest to evaluate it.
Best to just call your DMV and ask.
I almost just ran with standard reg too.. And I may, after this one expires.. but for now, I'll stay legal.
-- Edited by The Junkman on Thursday 18th of September 2014 07:45:24 AM
the vehicle (carrying capacity) during the registration year." That is cut and paste right off form.
I bolded this part because, while not sure, there is a difference between carried and towed. My gut says Glenn is in compliance as most LDTs (3500HD, 450 or 550 or similar) will not tip the scales at over 18K even with a fairly heavy trailer on the pin. Now, GCVW is a different story.
Just my thoughts, I want to understand these distinctions also.
Brian
Yep..In my my post above.. You must have missed it..
Now.. are you trying to say the truck is not carrying the trailer?
If so, try telling that to DMV.. lol, and all the tractor trailer drivers that must pay on the weight they are towing.. not what the truck can carry.. same thing.. to dmv.
Trying to twist the meaning of verbage will not work in court. These terms have been clearly defined by your states DMV , DOT and the feds..
Please call your dmv and speak to someone who is knowledgable.. My guess is your dmv teller had no clue..
Or better yet, call the folks who will ticket you.. they will know best.. DOT?
-- Edited by The Junkman on Thursday 18th of September 2014 08:42:11 AM
The truck and trailer should be classed as "The Vehicle"
This is texas law..
9.3 Trailer or Semitrailer Fees
Transportation Code, Sec. 502.254. Fee: Trailer, Travel Trailer, or Semitrailer.
(a) The fee for a registration year for registration of a trailer, travel trailer, or
semitrailer with a gross weight of 6,000 pounds or less is $45.00.
(b) The fee for a registration year for registration of a trailer, travel trailer, or
semitrailer with a gross weight of more than 6,000 pounds is calculated by gross
weight according to Section 502.253.
From the texas registration manual 2014. ( follow the link..right center of the page )
www.txdmv.gov/motorists/buying-or-selling-a-vehicle/trailers
Not knowing.. still gets you in trouble.
IF YOU ARE OVER 6K... YOU PAY BY WEIGHT. period.
For other texans.. Have a look.. call dmv. or dot. I believe most do not pay these fees.. However, There is many posts of recent activity of stops all over. My guess, is this may start getting enforced in all states.
And one more thing.. I know Texas is argueing the CDL thing now.. I think Florida will follow.. As I am only a drivers license away from it.. the rest is already done.. small steps..
I'm done. good luck folks..
-- Edited by The Junkman on Thursday 18th of September 2014 09:33:52 AM
Now you are talking about the registration fee for the trailer in TX. I thought we were discussing the truck and registration fees for it.
This is about registration fees.. still .. lol
Read it. I don't know.. And now i'm done. Now you have the texas law, and the link....you can educate your dmv teller..lol
Good luck.
TRANSPORTATION CODE
TITLE 7. VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC
SUBTITLE A. CERTIFICATES OF TITLE AND REGISTRATION OF VEHICLES
CHAPTER 502. REGISTRATION OF VEHICLES
SUBCHAPTER A. GENERAL PROVISIONS
www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/TN/htm/TN.502.htm
Sec. 502.254. FEE: TRAILER, TRAVEL TRAILER, OR SEMITRAILER. (a) The fee for a registration year for registration of a trailer, travel trailer, or semitrailer with a gross weight of 6,000 pounds or less is $45.00.
(b) The fee for a registration year for registration of a trailer, travel trailer, or semitrailer with a gross weight of more than 6,000 pounds is calculated by gross weight according to Section 502.253.
Sec. 502.253. FEE: VEHICLES THAT WEIGH MORE THAN 6,000 POUNDS. The fee for a registration year for registration of a vehicle with a gross weight of more than 6,000 pounds is as follows unless otherwise provided in this chapter:
Weight Classification Fee Schedule
in pounds
6,001-10,000 $54.00
10,001-18,000 $110.00
18,001-25,999 $205.00
26,000-40,000 $340.00
40,001-54,999 $535.00
55,000-70,000 $740.00
70,001-80,000 $840.00
Looks about the same as florida.. and other states..
I would interpret the TX rates to mean for a setup such as yours, for example, as $110 for the truck (10001-18000lbs) and $205 for the trailer (18001-25999lbs) plus all local fees for both. TX, it seems, doesn't distinguish any class of vehicles or trailers once you reach 10001lbs except to determine fees by weight. Now a similar weight MH would be $340 plus local fees (26000-40000lbs)
If I read correctly. Florida, I have not looked at, others with more knowledge may add their two cents.
FWIW, Brian
on edit: sorry Terry for drifting off the original subject... even though relevant, somewhat. I suspect the fine line of commercial vs non-commercial specifically related to individual vehicle usage or for the drivers. Before you say it... I agree this should really be on it's own thread.
-- Edited by biggaRView on Thursday 18th of September 2014 10:27:14 AM
I just took a peek at FL DMV, and again, if I understand correctly, since you are over the 5000 figure you have to use their GVW schedule(commercial or private... makes no difference), so your $343 number appears correct. Different states.. different ways of getting their pound of flesh from you but in the end it's relatively the same amount no matter how or what state you use to calculate it.
B
-- Edited by biggaRView on Thursday 18th of September 2014 11:01:09 AM
Yes. You are on the money. And glad you see what I see.
Thanks.
The only thing I could not really make clear was if your trailer is considered part of your truck registration fee, as in you register truck and trailer under the same plates. If not, it seems to me, that trailer plate fees in FL would be nominal seeing as they are, for practical purposes, covered by the vehicle that will tow them. Personally, I prefer the TX methodology as it seems more transparent than FL but it's roughly the same either way in the big picture.
JHMO, Brian
-- Edited by biggaRView on Friday 19th of September 2014 04:59:35 AM