Hi, Hubby and I are planning on going full time part-time starting next year. I have been following the Paynes and this forum for about 6 months. Thank you all, it is so informative! I would love to go full time but can't convince Hubby! We both love to travel and have been traveling on vacations and long weekends with a 2001 Airstream 30' Excella for six years.
We have not bought our 5er yet, but strongly considering the Keystone Montana. Here are the specs, shipping weight - 12850; carrying capacity - 3130; and hitch - 2480. We currently have a 2005 GMC 2500HD crew cab short bed with dura max/Allison.
We know we need to trade trucks, but having a debate as Hubby doesn't want to drive a "big" truck all the time. He wants a single wheel in the rear instead of a dully and a short bed instead of a long bed. I want a crew cab as we travel with two dogs, and we make the back seat their "kennel". Is the dually, really necessary, he wants to know?
We are considering a 3500HD with crew cab and shortbed. I would as you all say, rather have too much truck instead of just enough. Besides not having the duallys, would having the shortbed create problems also?
Terry and Jo said
01:35 PM Dec 31, 2011
Candy and Dave,
First of all, here is a link to the GMC Sierra brochure. Since it is a pdf (Adobe) file, it would be difficult to copy and paste the weight information into the thread. Besides, it sounds like you need to still make a decision based on what style of truck you want.
Since you are shopping, you can save a copy of the brochure onto your computer hard drive for future reference.
What you will first want to do is look at what each model/style will handle in regards to weight. Unfortunately, I couldn't find in the brochure what the GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight) rating is on the trucks. That is the total weight of both the truck (with critters, cargo, fuel, and passengers) and trailer (with all you will carry with you). That GCVW is actually more important than "towing rating" which is usually just the weight of the trailer.
You may need to spend some time with a GMC dealer to find out the GCVW ratings on all model/style trucks you are considering. Most folks prefer to have a weight "cushion" which would be where your truck's capacity is actually about 10% to 20% more than what the GCVW actually is.
As for length of bed, one can get a sliding hitch for a fifth wheel, whether it be manual or automatic. That is something you would have to decide on as to which is best for you. Also, consider that the bed of the truck can carry some "cargo" that you may not want in the basement of the coach.
Some of the manufacturers are going with front walk-in closets, which will sometimes cause the external part of the coach to extend up over the pin box. If such is the case, a long box may be necessary.
As far as single wheel versus dually is concerned, a dually will give you an advantage with stability while towing and on corners. It will also give you more capability in regards to GVWR for the truck and possibly with GCVW.
If you ever convince him that full-timing is the way to go, I would say dually with long bed is definitely the way to go. In either case, it is wise to choose the RV first and then buy a tow vehicle that is capable of towing that RV.
Feel free to ask more questions if you need. There are a lot of knowledgeable folks here to help.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Saturday 31st of December 2011 02:07:05 PM
Jack Mayer said
02:44 PM Dec 31, 2011
Personally, I don't like the sliding hitches. They either don't work well, or are a problem waiting to happen. I have seen many trucks with sliding hitches that have damage to the truck someplace...presumably caused by the hitch not doing what it should. And without exception, EVERY sliding hitch that comes into our campground has an issue doing what it should. I have not seen one yet that worked as intended the first time. Now, that said, I'm sure some do work. And I'm sure "some" people will say they always work....but that has not been my observation.
As to what you need truck wise....You will be at around 16,000 lbs with the trailer you describe. I surely would not want to tow that with a single rear wheel truck. You will have much more stability with duals. But you "might" be able to get by with singles, technically. As Terry said - get the trailer first, then consider what you need to tow it. And also consider future needs....
-- Edited by Jack Mayer on Saturday 31st of December 2011 02:45:47 PM
-- Edited by Jack Mayer on Saturday 31st of December 2011 02:46:15 PM
cejones4210 said
04:51 PM Jan 1, 2012
Jack and Terry, Thank you for your answers as you both confirmed what I have been thinking and saying all along! :) Dave said today, if we need a dually long bed, then I have to compromise on an extended cab versus a crew cab, so I said sure! :) Thanks for helping me make some progress in convincing him that this is a safety towing issue, not a "looks" issue.
Have a Happy New Year and hope to meet you and other RV Dreamers on the road! Candace
P.S. I know that I will have more questions the closer we get to retirement and part-timing!
Terry and Jo said
07:11 PM Jan 1, 2012
cejones4210 wrote:
Jack and Terry, Thank you for your answers as you both confirmed what I have been thinking and saying all along! :) Dave said today, if we need a dually long bed, then I have to compromise on an extended cab versus a crew cab, so I said sure! :) Thanks for helping me make some progress in convincing him that this is a safety towing issue, not a "looks" issue.
Have a Happy New Year and hope to meet you and other RV Dreamers on the road! Candace
P.S. I know that I will have more questions the closer we get to retirement and part-timing!
Candy and Dave,
I know this isn't necessarily your first choice, but our Ford F450 has an enhanced turning radius. Ours is a long bed, four door crew cab and it has the same turning radius as our old Ford F250, even though it is 3 feet longer than the F250.
What I can't answer to is whether the newer F450's have that enhanced steering, nor can I say whether GM or Dodge have it in any of their models. This is just mentioned as a thought for you. Personally, even though it is just Jo and I (and our two MinPins), I would hate to have to do without a full four-door truck.
We lived with club cabs for a long time and then bought a full four-door F150 once. We traded it and went back to a club cab and I always hated hauling any passengers around because they had to stay scrunched-up in the back. Now that I'm back in a four-door, they will have to get it away from me after they've run me over with it.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Monday 2nd of January 2012 09:36:46 PM
cejones4210 said
03:17 PM Jan 2, 2012
Terry, good thought! So we should definitely check for Enhanced Steering. :). Need to read up on that! Dave was just saying this morning about checking out Ford again. We had a Ford quite a while back, but it has been GMC for about the last 15 years! Thanks for the info and recommendation! I will be adding that to our list.
Candy
Delaine and Lindy said
06:39 PM Jan 2, 2012
Dave, I suggest you go to the MOC Montana's Owners forum. They will have the answer in ref's to the Montana. Great group of people... I can't answer any questions about the Ford F 450's I only buy GM Trucks, but did just sell my Freightliner and went back to the 2011 Chevy 3500HD DRWs, because the upgrade GM did on the Frames, brakes and exhaust brake. And the added tow and weight rating GM did, and don't forget the HP and Torq. I this past summer pull the Colorado Rockies with the 2011 Chevy 3500HD and it handle the Suites as well as the Freightliner. We did go to the 2012 Chevy 3500HD DRWs. As for the GM 3500HD DRW's you only can get a Long bed. Don't know about the 3500 SRW's if you can get a short bed or not, I don't think so, but its easy to verfiy. But a GM 3500HD SRW will handle the Montana's in my opinion, the pin weight is the only issue with the 2500HD's. As for the sliding hitches many as said don't work all the time. The trick with the sliding hitch is to lower your landing gear and take some weight off the slider, and it will work. Many 5th wheel with the electric brakes want lock down and therefore the slider doesn't work well, also a good set of chok block help if you don't have disk brakes on the 5th wheel. Also keep the assembly lubed good. The short time I had a 2500HD S/B I never had to use the sliding hitch. And according to the Montana web site the new front caps are designed in such a way you want need a sliding 5th wheel. You will need to verify that !!!! My Freightliner also had a better turning radius that my GM 3500HDs, I do believe you shouldn't twist the 5th wheel (tires & axles) as much as the turning radius on the F 450 or the Freightliner will allow. I wouldn't put my Mobile Suites in such a position. Again I highly recommend you spend the extra dollars and go with a Trailer Saver Air ride 5th wheel hitch, yes they are pricey but so is you Montana and Truck.. The TS will reduce a lot of stress on the frame. Good Luck with your choices... Happy Trails....
Waggin Tails said
08:21 PM Jan 2, 2012
Candy/Dave As you can see from my signature block below, I drive a dual wheel Dodge. My choice was based on many comments on this forum about more stability and better stopping ability. I can certainly say the comments were dead on. I do not have years of towing experience nor have I towed in mountains. Our truck has given us the confidence that it is stable on the road and has super stopping ability.
Long bed is a must. When you are out and about, you will encounter folks pulling fivers. Take the opportunity to ask them their opinion about their configuration. You will learn from a lot.
I can understand not want a dual wheel truck to drive around. For us, this is our only transportation so I purposely look for the smoothest lane. I do keep a little weight in the truck bed that helps smooth the ride.
Remember that H&L have a Jeep in addition to their truck.
Good luck on your quest. (PS. I sometimes think my truck is big. Today there was a Ford F-250 parked next to me that made my truck look like a mini truck.)
Terry and Jo said
09:42 PM Jan 2, 2012
Waggin Tails wrote:
Good luck on your quest. (PS. I sometimes think my truck is big. Today there was a Ford F-250 parked next to me that made my truck look like a mini truck.)
But Jerry. I've heard that the Dodges shrink in the rain.....
(OK. I'll not hijack this thread any further.)
I suspect that F250 was a four-wheel-drive and probably "lifted" up as well.
Terry
Terry and Jo said
11:11 PM Jan 2, 2012
A follow-up thought on one of Lindy's comments, specifically about the enhanced turning radius of some trucks. I don't rely on that better turning ability when towing our coach. Since I used to be a professional driver, including 18-wheelers, I still tend to look out in advance for difficult situations and consider how to avoid or best handle those.
When I really like the enhanced turning radius the most is when I am just driving the truck alone. It is much easier to get around in some parking lots and odd city streets than those trucks without that better radius.
I also need to clarify one of my own statements. So far as I know, the Ford F450 or the MDT's similar to the Freighliner that Lindy had are the only ones with the enhanced steering. (I don't remember on the HDT's as to whether their steering is tighter or not. I want to think they are.) In short, I don't think that any of the other Ford trucks (F350, F250) have it, nor do I think the GMC and Dodge trucks have it.
So, considering what you are wanting to tow, unless you think you might get a bigger RV later, the F450 would probably be overkill.
For the most part, we do our daily driving in our Mercury Mariner and the truck sits most of the time. But on occasion, we have to use it because we need to carry something larger than what the Mariner can handle. When I do, I'm not hesitant about where I can go with it and get around.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Monday 2nd of January 2012 11:17:14 PM
Bill and Linda said
08:27 AM Jan 4, 2012
None of the 3500 / 350 / 2500 /250 trucks have as tight a turning radius as most MDT or the 450 series. The F-450 / Freightliner, etc. are physically wider than the 3500 series trucks and therefore the wheel “cut” can physically turn further due to more room under the wider truck front end.
IMO, and a lot of people who tow a lot, you simply want Dual Rear Wheels.The ride, stability, safety, and yes weight capacity, are so much higher than singles.Driven both and know both well.
You also just don’t want a slider hitch if you have the option of getting a truck with a normal 8 foot bed; especially if you are full-timing or are actually going to travel.
Lindy is quite correct for the Montana.A GM / Chevy 3500HD series will be more than enough but I would really recommend dual wheels.If you want an MDT / 450 or whatever, fine and dandy, go for it.But you don’t need it and the extra cost.Want, maybe; need, not so much.
I’m not getting into the Chevy / Ford discussion.However, there is nothing better than an Allison transmission. Even my die hard Dodge and Ford friends say that.Also the “exhaust brake,” (which actually is a turbo brake), coupled with the integrated Allison, is incredibly effective on the new 2011-2012 GM / Chevy’s which makes it an excellent choice as a tow vehicle not to mention the much improved ride of these new trucks.
My 2 cents - enjoy the process.
Bill
Edited for Spelling
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Wednesday 4th of January 2012 08:30:15 AM
Dr Gonzo said
05:25 PM Jan 4, 2012
Candy!
Welcome; it appears the usual suspects replied to your post. Both Terry and Bill are frequent posters on RV dreams and are both very knowledgeable about the lifestyle. They both have, as I do, biases - one is a GM guy and the other is a Ford guy. I will let you determine who is who. I thought I would now provide you my bias. You cannot go wrong with a Dodge...it does not have an Allyson transmission but either does Ford; it does, however, have what neither Ford or Chev have and that is a Cummins diesel! It is the most efficient diesel you can have in a one ton truck - try it and you will see.
I agree with my fellow posters in regard to a "slider" - do not get one. In terms of short box or long box I have had no difficulty with a short box (and no slider) for the last 10 yrs (varying trucks and 5'ers). I suppose as one poster has remarked you may want the room for storage in your box. The DRW debate vs the SRW debate...it gets tiresome! In a nutshell with SRW you can tow more (the weight of dually wheel assembly is deducted) but with a DRW you can have more weight on the pin. The stability debate is meaningless in my humble opinion. I was like your DH, I did not want a big ass rear end truck and chose SRW!
I tow a Designer presently and it is almost identical in its specs as your 5'er. I would certainly insure that you have some form of engine or exhaust brake. I believe GM, Ford and Dodge all come with them as standard equipment now. As has been stated by all posters either explicitly or implicitly you want a truck that can adjust to the changes in your 5'er. If you are going to get a bigger or heavier one you will have to change trucks. If there is any possibility that you will want a bigger or heavier 5'er then you should get something bigger than a 3500/350 to begin with.
I think you will find that most of this stuff is a matter of preference and you cannot really go wrong. Good luck in your future travels!
Brian
cejones4210 said
05:50 PM Jan 4, 2012
Wow, you guys are awesome!! Dave says you are giving him lots to think about as your experiences and opinions really help us (him) in thinking through the whole process. We will probably be buying this coming year and then getting the 5er. We are hoping to semi - fulltime starting in the fall of 2012 or early 2013. For this year we will be in our refurbished vintage 1974 Airstream Tradewind, which is being completed this winter. We have loved our Airstreams for short trips but for months at a time it just won 't work for me. I have been wanting a 5er for about 20 years!!
Again, thanks for all the thoughts and info to think through, and what to consider and what we really need!
Candy
Racerguy said
07:36 PM Jan 4, 2012
I agree with Dr.Gonzo on everything except the SRWvsDRW. I've had both and much prefer the DRW.That's my opinion but like bellybuttons everyone has one.:).Don't pay attention to the naysayers about the new 6.7 Cummins and new 68re automatic transmission.In time the 68re will probably be compared to the Allison,but right now the Allison has a proven track record where the 68re doesn't YET.Good luck in your search.
Terry and Jo said
09:45 PM Jan 4, 2012
Dr Gonzo wrote:I agree with my fellow posters in regard to a "slider" - do not get one. In terms of short box or long box I have had no difficulty with a short box (and no slider) for the last 10 yrs (varying trucks and 5'ers). I suppose as one poster has remarked you may want the room for storage in your box. The DRW debate vs the SRW debate...it gets tiresome! In a nutshell with SRW you can tow more (the weight of dually wheel assembly is deducted) but with a DRW you can have more weight on the pin. The stability debate is meaningless in my humble opinion. I was like your DH, I did not want a big ass rear end truck and chose SRW!
Brian
I pretty much agree with Brian/Dr. Gonzo except with the dually vs single rear wheels. There is a gentleman that weighs a lot of RV's at rallies and such and he keeps a record of all he weighs. He owns a Mobile Suites, so he is familiar with the heavier coaches and the trucks that are used to tow them.
He put out a document on one of the forums specific to the DRV Suites products, listing each and every one of 99 different DRV Suites rigs. At the bottom of the document he noted that 100% of the SRW trucks were overweight with being hooked to the heavy coaches and 60% of the DRW trucks were overweight as well. Those weights were based on the data stickers on the door post of the driver's side of the truck.
That said, I'm not sure about the issue of being able to tow more with a SRW. With what you are planning on buying, it might be that a SRW would work for you, but with what experience I've had with both types on the farm and off, I would still go with a dually.
Worse comes to worse, if you had a dual tire go flat, one could "limp in" on the remaining tire on that side if one took it slow and easy. With a SRW, you would be getting out the jack and wrenches.
Oh, and if your truck is equipped with a transmission with the "Tow/Haul" feature, having an engine or exhaust brake isn't so important.
Terry
Terry and Jo said
10:06 PM Jan 4, 2012
Well, as usual, I thought of something after posting the above. Someone else shared this with me and it is only fitting that I offer to share it with you. Whoever the person is (memory of names is not my strong suit) sent me a pdf (Adobe Acrobat) file that was a comparison of the 2011 GM 3500, 2010 Dodge 3500, and 2011 Ford F350.
In honesty, the document is now out of date because I think that since it was published, Dodge came out with some improvements to their truck as well. For a more accurate comparison, you would need to get the newer specifications for Dodge's 3500. That said, the 2010 model of Dodge didn't equal up to the GM and Ford.
If you would like to have a copy of this pdf file, contact me via private message WITH YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS and I'll send it to you.
Terry
Racerguy said
11:01 PM Jan 4, 2012
Terry the newer Dodge HO 6.7 had the torque uprated to 800 foot pounds and 350 horsepower.They beefed up the drivetrain to handle it.We all know torque is what gets the whole mass going so for now Dodge is ahead in that category. I'm sure Ford and Chevy will follow suit soon.I've always felt if you could put a Cummins and an Allison in a Ford truck you would have the perfect truck although Chevy makes a nice truck now and my last two trucks being Dodge's I have no complaints with them.
Bill and Linda said
08:38 AM Jan 5, 2012
Racerguy wrote:
Terry the newer Dodge HO 6.7 had the torque uprated to 800 foot pounds and 350 horsepower.They beefed up the drivetrain to handle it.We all know torque is what gets the whole mass going so for now Dodge is ahead in that category. I'm sure Ford and Chevy will follow suit soon.I've always felt if you could put a Cummins and an Allison in a Ford truck you would have the perfect truck although Chevy makes a nice truck now and my last two trucks being Dodge's I have no complaints with them.
Quite correct about the improvements in the new Dodge offering.The biggest issue used to be that the Dodge had a great engine, but no appropriate transmission to go with it. In fact, many used to go with a manual transmission due to the lack of a suitable automatic.Now, Dodge has come up with a whole new offering.It looks good and as you say only time will tell. The Ford has one year under its belt with its new diesel and transmission.I’ve read a few mixed reports but overall it seems like it is going to do just fine and would likewise be a very suitable selection – The F-350 that is. As Fred says, the Allison is just a proven workhorse along with the like kind proven GM (actually Isuzu design / GM build) Duramax.So there are many 3500 / 350 series options to choose from.
Pick your favorite; they all will handle a Montana just fine.However, for the use intended and asked for by Cathy, you want duals and no slider as most have said.Also, the trailer towing capacity and pin weight capaicty of the truck is increased by duals when it is a 5er which is what Cathy is asking about.In the case of the Chevy, duals increase 5er weight by about 5,600lbs over the singles.The numbers for the Ford and Dodge are likewise increased with duals and are similar.Just reading the published specifications for a 5th wheel will back this up nicely.
As an asside, we have no problems taking a truck with duals to the store or to see the "sites". Just not an issue and, at least for us, well worth the improved ride, capacity and saftey, at least according to my wife.
Always verify by your own research what is stated on any forum.That will serve you very well.
Enjoy the hunt
53 Merc said
03:07 PM Jan 5, 2012
Just an observation about a short bed truck and a slider hitch. We have both, and for 5 years had no issues with either. I was just careful about how short I could turn while backing, since our 5er does not have the radiused corners. Well, one day, I paid the stupid tax (or was it the lazy tax?). I thought, I can watch the corners and not mess with sliding the hitch. All went well until I got the trailer up on the entrance ramp and the truck on the street. The 5er corner had been just fine until then, suddenly CRAAAACKKKK, and glass exploded into the front seat, and I had not changed the steering wheel since checking clearance. The change in angle had put the 5er corner into the rear glass. Since then, the hitch slides while parking the rig in the barn. It slides, most of the time, with no issues. But, you gotta be careful. In a do-over, I would have a long bed.
Alie and Jims Carrilite said
04:03 PM Jan 5, 2012
I'm more of a lite weight in pin weight compared to alot of these guys but for what it's designed for the Pullrite Superglide gives me piece of mind. I don't worry about turns or backing. I have a 15k that fits on industry standard rails. For 1800lbs of pin and 12k gross its a great hitch. My Dodge is a 2500 so no duals. If I had known I would have a 5'er I would have gotten a Dually instead.
On Edit here:
I set up my hitch so that I have 7" of clearance from the top of the bedrails to the 5'er overhang.
-- Edited by Jims carrilite on Friday 6th of January 2012 02:02:50 PM
Bill and Linda said
04:09 PM Jan 5, 2012
53 Merc wrote:
Just an observation about a short bed truck and a slider hitch. We have both, and for 5 years had no issues with either. I was just careful about how short I could turn while backing, since our 5er does not have the radiused corners. Well, one day, I paid the stupid tax (or was it the lazy tax?). I thought, I can watch the corners and not mess with sliding the hitch. All went well until I got the trailer up on the entrance ramp and the truck on the street. The 5er corner had been just fine until then, suddenly CRAAAACKKKK, and glass exploded into the front seat, and I had not changed the steering wheel since checking clearance. The change in angle had put the 5er corner into the rear glass. Since then, the hitch slides while parking the rig in the barn. It slides, most of the time, with no issues. But, you gotta be careful. In a do-over, I would have a long bed.
To do just a bit of thread hi-jacking but sort of related to Ken’s comments: This event is similar to those who have very little truck bed rail to 5er overhang clearance – like maybe 4 inches. You really need 7 to 8 inches at least. Some have told me that it won’t be a problem for them as they never go “off road.” Then I get the email when they tore up the bed rails and 5er when going over a set of rail road tracks and there was a hump and the rear of the truck rails tore into the 5ers overhang. Many many dollars later they look into getting the 7” to 8” of minimum clearance by various means.
You don’t have a problem until you do. So it is sort of like insurance. You can travel for years and never need a spare tire, but someday you will. You will be fine with a slider and a short bed, until the trailer hits the cab of the truck.
Cathy’s looking for advice and opinions. Just saying . . .
Bill
Edited due to some strange HTML formating
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Thursday 5th of January 2012 04:13:13 PM
Steve C said
09:18 AM Jan 6, 2012
Good morning,
I have owned and towed RVs or trailers with at least six Ford trucks from F-150 to F-450. Done a lot of RVing in a F-650. I listened to Lindy and Bill and bought a 2012 Chevy Crewcab Long Bed Dually 3500 HD this time out. I am very happy and enjoy driving it also when not pulling. We also have a Ford Escape which I like to drive; but, to be honest I now like driving the big truck more. We looked hard at MDTs but did not like the noise. Our 2012 DRV 38RESB3 Elite Suite weighs close to 20,000 lbs. The Chevy handles it fine so far after towing over 3,000 miles.
Our 2010 F-450 did have a better turning radius; but, I like driving the new Chevy more. It was very, very hard for me to change from Ford to Chevy. Bill Napier never thought I would. But, I listened to experience and I am glad I did.
Evin and looked hard at motorhomes. We drove several without the tag axle and were scared. Much more at ease with the tag axle. The same is true IMHO about the dually on the trucks. I would NOT, would NOT consider hauling what you plan to buy with a single rear axle.
When we first thought about doing fulltime RVing I wanted to get something lighter that I could pull with a F-250. I went to six of the factories and saw the units we were interested being built, not after the line was shut down. It was time and money well spent. I do not care what you spend or what your buy, there will be problems.
If you plan to RV fulltime, make sure what you buy is rated for fulltime use. Those units normally cost more; but, there are reasons for that.
Good luck,
Steve
Ronk said
05:21 PM Nov 16, 2012
Hi guys..best of luck for the travels and your dog during the travels..dude truck capacity only increase in my point of view when its engine doing work and you people change the oil of the engine after two months..and use diesel and high quality Mobil...
Candy and Dave,
First of all, here is a link to the GMC Sierra brochure. Since it is a pdf (Adobe) file, it would be difficult to copy and paste the weight information into the thread. Besides, it sounds like you need to still make a decision based on what style of truck you want.
GMC Sierra brochure.
Since you are shopping, you can save a copy of the brochure onto your computer hard drive for future reference.
What you will first want to do is look at what each model/style will handle in regards to weight. Unfortunately, I couldn't find in the brochure what the GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight) rating is on the trucks. That is the total weight of both the truck (with critters, cargo, fuel, and passengers) and trailer (with all you will carry with you). That GCVW is actually more important than "towing rating" which is usually just the weight of the trailer.
You may need to spend some time with a GMC dealer to find out the GCVW ratings on all model/style trucks you are considering. Most folks prefer to have a weight "cushion" which would be where your truck's capacity is actually about 10% to 20% more than what the GCVW actually is.
As for length of bed, one can get a sliding hitch for a fifth wheel, whether it be manual or automatic. That is something you would have to decide on as to which is best for you. Also, consider that the bed of the truck can carry some "cargo" that you may not want in the basement of the coach.
Some of the manufacturers are going with front walk-in closets, which will sometimes cause the external part of the coach to extend up over the pin box. If such is the case, a long box may be necessary.
As far as single wheel versus dually is concerned, a dually will give you an advantage with stability while towing and on corners. It will also give you more capability in regards to GVWR for the truck and possibly with GCVW.
If you ever convince him that full-timing is the way to go, I would say dually with long bed is definitely the way to go. In either case, it is wise to choose the RV first and then buy a tow vehicle that is capable of towing that RV.
Feel free to ask more questions if you need. There are a lot of knowledgeable folks here to help.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Saturday 31st of December 2011 02:07:05 PM
Personally, I don't like the sliding hitches. They either don't work well, or are a problem waiting to happen. I have seen many trucks with sliding hitches that have damage to the truck someplace...presumably caused by the hitch not doing what it should. And without exception, EVERY sliding hitch that comes into our campground has an issue doing what it should. I have not seen one yet that worked as intended the first time. Now, that said, I'm sure some do work. And I'm sure "some" people will say they always work....but that has not been my observation.
As to what you need truck wise....You will be at around 16,000 lbs with the trailer you describe. I surely would not want to tow that with a single rear wheel truck. You will have much more stability with duals. But you "might" be able to get by with singles, technically. As Terry said - get the trailer first, then consider what you need to tow it. And also consider future needs....
-- Edited by Jack Mayer on Saturday 31st of December 2011 02:45:47 PM
-- Edited by Jack Mayer on Saturday 31st of December 2011 02:46:15 PM
Thank you for your answers as you both confirmed what I have been thinking and saying all along! :)
Dave said today, if we need a dually long bed, then I have to compromise on an extended cab versus a crew cab, so I said sure! :) Thanks for helping me make some progress in convincing him that this is a safety towing issue, not a "looks" issue.
Have a Happy New Year and hope to meet you and other RV Dreamers on the road!
Candace
P.S. I know that I will have more questions the closer we get to retirement and part-timing!
Candy and Dave,
I know this isn't necessarily your first choice, but our Ford F450 has an enhanced turning radius. Ours is a long bed, four door crew cab and it has the same turning radius as our old Ford F250, even though it is 3 feet longer than the F250.
What I can't answer to is whether the newer F450's have that enhanced steering, nor can I say whether GM or Dodge have it in any of their models. This is just mentioned as a thought for you. Personally, even though it is just Jo and I (and our two MinPins), I would hate to have to do without a full four-door truck.
We lived with club cabs for a long time and then bought a full four-door F150 once. We traded it and went back to a club cab and I always hated hauling any passengers around because they had to stay scrunched-up in the back. Now that I'm back in a four-door, they will have to get it away from me after they've run me over with it.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Monday 2nd of January 2012 09:36:46 PM
Candy
As you can see from my signature block below, I drive a dual wheel Dodge. My choice was based on many comments on this forum about more stability and better stopping ability. I can certainly say the comments were dead on. I do not have years of towing experience nor have I towed in mountains. Our truck has given us the confidence that it is stable on the road and has super stopping ability.
Long bed is a must. When you are out and about, you will encounter folks pulling fivers. Take the opportunity to ask them their opinion about their configuration. You will learn from a lot.
I can understand not want a dual wheel truck to drive around. For us, this is our only transportation so I purposely look for the smoothest lane. I do keep a little weight in the truck bed that helps smooth the ride.
Remember that H&L have a Jeep in addition to their truck.
Good luck on your quest. (PS. I sometimes think my truck is big. Today there was a Ford F-250 parked next to me that made my truck look like a mini truck.)
But Jerry. I've heard that the Dodges shrink in the rain.....
(OK. I'll not hijack this thread any further.)
I suspect that F250 was a four-wheel-drive and probably "lifted" up as well.
Terry
A follow-up thought on one of Lindy's comments, specifically about the enhanced turning radius of some trucks. I don't rely on that better turning ability when towing our coach. Since I used to be a professional driver, including 18-wheelers, I still tend to look out in advance for difficult situations and consider how to avoid or best handle those.
When I really like the enhanced turning radius the most is when I am just driving the truck alone. It is much easier to get around in some parking lots and odd city streets than those trucks without that better radius.
I also need to clarify one of my own statements. So far as I know, the Ford F450 or the MDT's similar to the Freighliner that Lindy had are the only ones with the enhanced steering. (I don't remember on the HDT's as to whether their steering is tighter or not. I want to think they are.) In short, I don't think that any of the other Ford trucks (F350, F250) have it, nor do I think the GMC and Dodge trucks have it.
So, considering what you are wanting to tow, unless you think you might get a bigger RV later, the F450 would probably be overkill.
For the most part, we do our daily driving in our Mercury Mariner and the truck sits most of the time. But on occasion, we have to use it because we need to carry something larger than what the Mariner can handle. When I do, I'm not hesitant about where I can go with it and get around.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Monday 2nd of January 2012 11:17:14 PM
None of the 3500 / 350 / 2500 /250 trucks have as tight a turning radius as most MDT or the 450 series. The F-450 / Freightliner, etc. are physically wider than the 3500 series trucks and therefore the wheel “cut” can physically turn further due to more room under the wider truck front end.
IMO, and a lot of people who tow a lot, you simply want Dual Rear Wheels. The ride, stability, safety, and yes weight capacity, are so much higher than singles. Driven both and know both well.
You also just don’t want a slider hitch if you have the option of getting a truck with a normal 8 foot bed; especially if you are full-timing or are actually going to travel.
Lindy is quite correct for the Montana. A GM / Chevy 3500HD series will be more than enough but I would really recommend dual wheels. If you want an MDT / 450 or whatever, fine and dandy, go for it. But you don’t need it and the extra cost. Want, maybe; need, not so much.
I’m not getting into the Chevy / Ford discussion. However, there is nothing better than an Allison transmission. Even my die hard Dodge and Ford friends say that. Also the “exhaust brake,” (which actually is a turbo brake), coupled with the integrated Allison, is incredibly effective on the new 2011-2012 GM / Chevy’s which makes it an excellent choice as a tow vehicle not to mention the much improved ride of these new trucks.
My 2 cents - enjoy the process.
Bill
Edited for Spelling
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Wednesday 4th of January 2012 08:30:15 AM
Welcome; it appears the usual suspects replied to your post. Both Terry and Bill are frequent posters on RV dreams and are both very knowledgeable about the lifestyle. They both have, as I do, biases - one is a GM guy and the other is a Ford guy. I will let you determine who is who. I thought I would now provide you my bias. You cannot go wrong with a Dodge...it does not have an Allyson transmission but either does Ford; it does, however, have what neither Ford or Chev have and that is a Cummins diesel! It is the most efficient diesel you can have in a one ton truck - try it and you will see.
I agree with my fellow posters in regard to a "slider" - do not get one. In terms of short box or long box I have had no difficulty with a short box (and no slider) for the last 10 yrs (varying trucks and 5'ers). I suppose as one poster has remarked you may want the room for storage in your box. The DRW debate vs the SRW debate...it gets tiresome! In a nutshell with SRW you can tow more (the weight of dually wheel assembly is deducted) but with a DRW you can have more weight on the pin. The stability debate is meaningless in my humble opinion. I was like your DH, I did not want a big ass rear end truck and chose SRW!
I tow a Designer presently and it is almost identical in its specs as your 5'er. I would certainly insure that you have some form of engine or exhaust brake. I believe GM, Ford and Dodge all come with them as standard equipment now. As has been stated by all posters either explicitly or implicitly you want a truck that can adjust to the changes in your 5'er. If you are going to get a bigger or heavier one you will have to change trucks. If there is any possibility that you will want a bigger or heavier 5'er then you should get something bigger than a 3500/350 to begin with.
I think you will find that most of this stuff is a matter of preference and you cannot really go wrong. Good luck in your future travels!
Brian
Again, thanks for all the thoughts and info to think through, and what to consider and what we really need!
Candy
I pretty much agree with Brian/Dr. Gonzo except with the dually vs single rear wheels. There is a gentleman that weighs a lot of RV's at rallies and such and he keeps a record of all he weighs. He owns a Mobile Suites, so he is familiar with the heavier coaches and the trucks that are used to tow them.
He put out a document on one of the forums specific to the DRV Suites products, listing each and every one of 99 different DRV Suites rigs. At the bottom of the document he noted that 100% of the SRW trucks were overweight with being hooked to the heavy coaches and 60% of the DRW trucks were overweight as well. Those weights were based on the data stickers on the door post of the driver's side of the truck.
That said, I'm not sure about the issue of being able to tow more with a SRW. With what you are planning on buying, it might be that a SRW would work for you, but with what experience I've had with both types on the farm and off, I would still go with a dually.
Worse comes to worse, if you had a dual tire go flat, one could "limp in" on the remaining tire on that side if one took it slow and easy. With a SRW, you would be getting out the jack and wrenches.
Oh, and if your truck is equipped with a transmission with the "Tow/Haul" feature, having an engine or exhaust brake isn't so important.
Terry
Well, as usual, I thought of something after posting the above. Someone else shared this with me and it is only fitting that I offer to share it with you. Whoever the person is (memory of names is not my strong suit) sent me a pdf (Adobe Acrobat) file that was a comparison of the 2011 GM 3500, 2010 Dodge 3500, and 2011 Ford F350.
In honesty, the document is now out of date because I think that since it was published, Dodge came out with some improvements to their truck as well. For a more accurate comparison, you would need to get the newer specifications for Dodge's 3500. That said, the 2010 model of Dodge didn't equal up to the GM and Ford.
If you would like to have a copy of this pdf file, contact me via private message WITH YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS and I'll send it to you.
Terry
Quite correct about the improvements in the new Dodge offering. The biggest issue used to be that the Dodge had a great engine, but no appropriate transmission to go with it. In fact, many used to go with a manual transmission due to the lack of a suitable automatic. Now, Dodge has come up with a whole new offering. It looks good and as you say only time will tell. The Ford has one year under its belt with its new diesel and transmission. I’ve read a few mixed reports but overall it seems like it is going to do just fine and would likewise be a very suitable selection – The F-350 that is. As Fred says, the Allison is just a proven workhorse along with the like kind proven GM (actually Isuzu design / GM build) Duramax. So there are many 3500 / 350 series options to choose from.
Pick your favorite; they all will handle a Montana just fine. However, for the use intended and asked for by Cathy, you want duals and no slider as most have said. Also, the trailer towing capacity and pin weight capaicty of the truck is increased by duals when it is a 5er which is what Cathy is asking about. In the case of the Chevy, duals increase 5er weight by about 5,600lbs over the singles. The numbers for the Ford and Dodge are likewise increased with duals and are similar. Just reading the published specifications for a 5th wheel will back this up nicely.
As an asside, we have no problems taking a truck with duals to the store or to see the "sites". Just not an issue and, at least for us, well worth the improved ride, capacity and saftey, at least according to my wife.
Always verify by your own research what is stated on any forum. That will serve you very well.
Enjoy the hunt
I'm more of a lite weight in pin weight compared to alot of these guys but for what it's designed for the Pullrite Superglide gives me piece of mind. I don't worry about turns or backing. I have a 15k that fits on industry standard rails. For 1800lbs of pin and 12k gross its a great hitch. My Dodge is a 2500 so no duals. If I had known I would have a 5'er I would have gotten a Dually instead.
On Edit here:
I set up my hitch so that I have 7" of clearance from the top of the bedrails to the 5'er overhang.
-- Edited by Jims carrilite on Friday 6th of January 2012 02:02:50 PM
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Thursday 5th of January 2012 04:13:13 PM
Good morning,
I have owned and towed RVs or trailers with at least six Ford trucks from F-150 to F-450. Done a lot of RVing in a F-650. I listened to Lindy and Bill and bought a 2012 Chevy Crewcab Long Bed Dually 3500 HD this time out. I am very happy and enjoy driving it also when not pulling. We also have a Ford Escape which I like to drive; but, to be honest I now like driving the big truck more. We looked hard at MDTs but did not like the noise. Our 2012 DRV 38RESB3 Elite Suite weighs close to 20,000 lbs. The Chevy handles it fine so far after towing over 3,000 miles.
Our 2010 F-450 did have a better turning radius; but, I like driving the new Chevy more. It was very, very hard for me to change from Ford to Chevy. Bill Napier never thought I would. But, I listened to experience and I am glad I did.
Evin and looked hard at motorhomes. We drove several without the tag axle and were scared. Much more at ease with the tag axle. The same is true IMHO about the dually on the trucks. I would NOT, would NOT consider hauling what you plan to buy with a single rear axle.
When we first thought about doing fulltime RVing I wanted to get something lighter that I could pull with a F-250. I went to six of the factories and saw the units we were interested being built, not after the line was shut down. It was time and money well spent. I do not care what you spend or what your buy, there will be problems.
If you plan to RV fulltime, make sure what you buy is rated for fulltime use. Those units normally cost more; but, there are reasons for that.
Good luck,
Steve