We are making plans for our first winter trip, Have one week reserved in aTexas campground to thaw out the camper and will play the rest as it goes. I have a honda 3000 generator , should I bring it? We are in a 28 ft 5er.
FritzandCheryl said
08:21 AM Dec 7, 2011
If you feel better having it. But you will need to sit down and figure out where you are staying and if you would really need the generator. I always take my generators for "just in case". I would just pack the 3000 in the back of the pickup.
Another thing, just a suggestion, If you are coming down from the "North" into Texas, and your first night will be around Fort Worth/Dallas, I would highly recommend Oak Creek RV Park near Weatherford, TX. It is all on cement and the people are great. You will not need a reservation but it would be nice that you would contact them. About 70 Big Rig Pull thrus and many back ins. Hot tub runs all winter.
Fritz
Racerguy said
11:01 AM Dec 7, 2011
It's best to check any campgrounds you plan on staying in generator policy.Also is it a quiet generator or a contractors generator.Your neighbors will not appreciate the latter.Many campgrounds have a no generator or certain hours generator policy.
pinetree said
07:58 PM Dec 7, 2011
It is the quiet one, Maybe what I need to be asking is about the chance for boondocking on the beach and other federal lands or is that more just Arizona ? I am thinking that the campgrounds are all with electrical, or is that not the case?
bjoyce said
07:06 AM Dec 8, 2011
Since you said, "play the rest as it goes", you should take the generator to give you more options even if it is overnighting at a Wal-Mart.
Delaine and Lindy said
08:38 AM Dec 8, 2011
Most all RV parks we use don't allow a Generator, however we do no boon docking or Wally Docking and very seldom use State Parks. Only comment is RV parks normally don't allow the use of Generators... However I'm beginning to do some research on whether to go with the Honda 3,000 or the 6500. The weight is the issue, I will mount the Honda on the rear receiver hitch of the Suites.. Good Luck with your choice. I could go with the 2000 Honda's but just don't what to have two Generators to keep up with. I have just gotten a Cargo Hitch to mount the Honda on its mounts into the receiver hitch.. Happy Trails...
Bill Adams said
09:47 AM Dec 8, 2011
Pinetree, You may need to determine how you want to use a generator. If you are in an RV park there should be no need for a generator as you will be connected to their shore power. If you are headed to a park such as State or Engineer sites which are dry camp you likely would want to bring a generator assuming they are allowed. If you are going to be looking to find some BLM land and curl up for awhile you absolutely are going to want to have a generator (or a very large solar array at a minimum).
Terry and Jo said
08:24 PM Dec 8, 2011
Delaine and Lindy wrote:
Most all RV parks we use don't allow a Generator, however we do no boon docking or Wally Docking and very seldom use State Parks. Only comment is RV parks normally don't allow the use of Generators... However I'm beginning to do some research on whether to go with the Honda 3,000 or the 6500. The weight is the issue, I will mount the Honda on the rear receiver hitch of the Suites.. Good Luck with your choice. I could go with the 2000 Honda's but just don't what to have two Generators to keep up with. I have just gotten a Cargo Hitch to mount the Honda on its mounts into the receiver hitch.. Happy Trails...
Lindy,
While the Honda 3000 is a good unit, it will only run one of your air conditioners when they are needed. However, even the 3000's are like the 2000's in that one can slave 2 of them together to double your power to manage both of your air conditioners plus some.
The issue to me would be the weight. If one were to go with two, you would be looking at 300 lbs total, plus the gasoline. Not sure what the 6500 weighs, but two 3000's could be man-handled separately.
However, regardless of which way one could go, I would be leary of putting that much weight on the rear hitch and see it start bouncing around on rough roads.
You know.....like Oklahoma roads?
Jo and I are a wee bit interested in getting a second one, but we will haul ours in our truck bed.
Terry
Delaine and Lindy said
08:51 AM Dec 9, 2011
We are in the very early stages of research on were to mount the Generator. We had a on-board Onan 5500 in one of our 5th wheels but never really used it except to run it once a Month. We have owned 2 Generators in a Tool Box built by Mountain Master, the first was a 30 amp, and the 2nd is a 55 amp which we have at home base. We did use the 55 amp more on the Farm than we did with the RV. But we very seldom use the 55 amp at home base.
I'm not completely sure we will even get a Generator, we are always at a RV park with 50 amp service. We are really looking into a Generator to power the residential type Fridge, I think the residential is so much more efficent than the typical RV fridge. The generator would be used to power the fridge if by chance the Chevy 3500HD were to have a mechanical issue...
However there are many things happening now, if we sell the house we would order another Mobile Suites and then the Generator would for sure be in the picture, we would go with a residential fridge.
As for the rear hitch, thats not really a issue, after towing the Chevy HHR for 2 years I fully trust the rear Hitch. The rear hitch factory option is well done. I took the Suites to a welder who has been in business for over 50 years and he inspected the rear hitch and his comment was, job well done... And yes I'm certainly aware of Oklahoma roads I lived in Ok. for two years and crossed I-40 twice in the last 3 years. But our summer trip to Colorado in 2012 we will cross I-70 as it the best route for our destination.
I seen a Honda Generator mounted on the rear hitch of a Keystone 5th wheel while in Northern New Mexico (Taos) this passed summer but didn't get a chance to talk to the owner, moved on before day light next morning, and from the looks it had been there for several years....
Also its very easy to have a 3 point hitch added to the Suites and it of sure will handle the 6500 Honda without a issue.. I hauled a Generator in the bed of the Truck for several years and just don't like doing that. I could for sure mount two 2,000 Honda's on the Hauler bed, but then its lugging them around when needed. And the Generator would only be used during travel in most cases.... Oh well there is always something to think about. Life is good.... Happy Trails.......
Jack Mayer said
09:25 AM Dec 9, 2011
Why not just run the residential Fridg off a battery bank and inverter while travelling. Having a generator "just in case" a breakdown happens seems to me to be way overkill and not a good use of money. But, hey, it's your $$$....
MorganCDN said
09:22 AM Dec 16, 2011
Hi to all on this thread:
We are about to become full timers with a DRV 38RESB3 in the spring and generators are a decision we have not finalized yet.
Built in (Onan) or portable (Honda, Yamaha)?
We realize the cost differance but there is also the convenience. Then there is the issue of how much it really is required? At this time we are planning at only staying at RV parks with power but that could change. We will be starting our travels in the East and than going to the West as the years go by.
We need the experience that is so available from all that are on this site. We know there is no correct answer that will fit all RVers but all opinions will be of great value.
Thanks in advance for all your times
Morgan
Jack Mayer said
11:11 AM Dec 16, 2011
Since you plan on starting in the east, and say you will not boondock I'd lean towards no built-in genset.
You may find as you go out west and also get "in" with a boondocking buhnch that you do boondock some. Then you could jjust buy a Honda 2000 for battery charging. If you don't boondock a LOT then that will be sufficient for the occasional 3-7 days of boondocking. If you boondock much longer than that,then you likely will want some solar.
One thing you should have done if you are building the rig new is to either put an inverter in now, or at least get inverter prep. You want the subpanel in from the manuf. That is the hardest thing to retrofit if you decide to do it later.
Terry and Jo said
11:56 AM Dec 16, 2011
MorganCDN wrote:
Hi to all on this thread:
We are about to become full timers with a DRV 38RESB3 in the spring and generators are a decision we have not finalized yet.
Built in (Onan) or portable (Honda, Yamaha)?
We realize the cost differance but there is also the convenience. Then there is the issue of how much it really is required? At this time we are planning at only staying at RV parks with power but that could change. We will be starting our travels in the East and than going to the West as the years go by.
We need the experience that is so available from all that are on this site. We know there is no correct answer that will fit all RVers but all opinions will be of great value.
Thanks in advance for all your times
Morgan
Hey, hey. Welcome to the RV Dreams forum. I have seen your posts elsewhere. likely on SOITC. Over there, we are millerjnt.
When we ordered our Mobile Suites last year, we did just as Jack suggested. We had generator prep done plus ordered the inverter option. In our case, with so many computerized devices, we opted for the pure sine wave inverter as opposed to the modified sine wave option.
In our research, it was decided to go that route so that we could recharge the batteries with our Honda EU3000IS generator. While it won't run both air conditioners, we don't plan on boondocking in hot places. If we boondock, it will mostly be in mountainous areas.
We already had the Honda generator, but we did seriously consider the onboard Onan. But, with nearly 300 lbs (versus 150 for the Honda) and $6000 in cost for the Onan, we decided to stay with the Honda.
On another DRV owner's coach, we noticed a socket at the front just above and to the left of the front compartment that one could plug in a cable from an external generator. If you are interested in that, contact Fritz and Cheryl either here or on SOITC. I am planning on retrofitting ours with a similar socket.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Friday 16th of December 2011 12:01:49 PM
Loki said
07:34 PM Jan 12, 2012
@ Terry: Why retrofitting with a socket? You could just take your shore cable and plug it into the generator. You almost never want both shore power and generator connected at the same time. Plus, you would need a transfer switch.
Neil and Connie said
09:44 PM Jan 12, 2012
MorganCDN wrote:
Hi to all on this thread:
We are about to become full timers with a DRV 38RESB3 in the spring and generators are a decision we have not finalized yet.
Built in (Onan) or portable (Honda, Yamaha)?
Connie and I have decided on a portable. The Onan built in is about 6 or 7 thousand and the Honda or Yamaha maybe 1000. With the amount we'll be using it; the larger one doesn't make as much sense since we'll be spending most of our time in parks with hookups.
We're also getting a residential fridge; more efficient, larger, lots of historical issues with RV propane powered ones, fire safety, etc. We'll just run it on the inverter/battery while traveling as Jack suggests. The only real key is you'll need more battery capacity than you normally might get just in case you get stuck at Wallyworld overnight.
Terry and Jo said
07:56 AM Jan 13, 2012
Loki wrote:
@ Terry: Why retrofitting with a socket? You could just take your shore cable and plug it into the generator. You almost never want both shore power and generator connected at the same time. Plus, you would need a transfer switch.
Loki,
With a 38' coach and the electric in the rear of the coach, we would have to have an extension in order to reach from the rear of the coach to the rear of the pickup. Since our coach already has generator prep, wiring from the rear of the coach to the front of the coach has already been done. With a socket in the front, I wouldn't need as long of an extension to reach from the pickup to the coach.
Now for MorganCDN's comment:
In our case, we ordered our Mobile Suites with an inverter and that included two extra batteries. If you were to look at a picture of the front of our coach, you would see an extra door for a compartment to the left of the front storage door.
The only things I liked about the Onan was that it was equipped with a "valve" where one could adjust the carburator for the altitude where one was parked and it is a big enough generator to power both air conditioners.
When we go from Oklahoma City to the mountains of Colorado, our Honda generator runs rich on fuel, leading to fouling of the plugs. While we have to either clean the plugs or replace them, I can replace a lot of plugs for the price of an Onan.
As for the need of a generator for running both air conditioners, I can always buy another Honda EU3000IS and slave them together or make sure any need of a generator is in the mountains where I don't need air conditioning.
Terry
NorCal Dan said
12:37 PM Jan 15, 2012
CG's do occasionally lose power, either from storms passing through, or to do system upgrade/maintenance. Having a genny means you are totally self-sufficient and can go/stay anywhere. We never considered a portable genny, I've read too many stories of them being stolen. Someday we hope to get involved with disaster recovery, another good reason to have your own source of power.
Racklefratz said
05:45 PM Jan 17, 2012
laubenthal wrote:
MorganCDN wrote:We're also getting a residential fridge; more efficient, larger, lots of historical issues with RV propane powered ones, fire safety, etc. We'll just run it on the inverter/battery while traveling as Jack suggests. The only real key is you'll need more battery capacity than you normally might get just in case you get stuck at Wallyworld overnight.
Yes, more battery capacity, and that's exactly why RV propane refrigerators have evolved as they have. I read this post the other day, and it bothered me. I re-read it today, and it's bothering me enough to respond.
I don't know where you found all those "historical issues with RV propane powered ones", but obviously, you found them. We've been RVing nearly 20 years now, and frankly, I haven't seen those "issues", either on the internet, talking to people, or in our personal experience. If propane-powered equipment were truly risky, we'd be reading about propane-related calamities frequently, and it's doubtful that they would have acquired the common usage they obviously have in the industry.
We accept propane for heating our RVs, and any added risk associated with our refrigerators is hard for me to worry a lot about.
Use whatever rationalization makes you comfortable to justify your residential refrigerator installation, but the overall RVing experience just can't be used to statistically support an argument against propane-powered refrigerators.
Bill Adams said
07:54 PM Jan 17, 2012
The issues (and massive recalls) for the Norcold fridge is well documented. Many RV's have gone up in flames due to this faulty equipment. If you could not find this information with an internet search you were not trying very hard. As a side note, while many RVs have burned (or charred) it's still a very tiny percentage of the total number or propane fridges in use and certainly not a singular reason to replace your propane fridge with a HH fridge. Now, as a full-timer with a HH fridge, I would never own an RV with anything else.
Racklefratz said
02:30 AM Jan 18, 2012
Bill Adams wrote:
The issues (and massive recalls) for the Norcold fridge is well documented. Many RV's have gone up in flames due to this faulty equipment. If you could not find this information with an internet search you were not trying very hard. As a side note, while many RVs have burned (or charred) it's still a very tiny percentage of the total number or propane fridges in use and certainly not a singular reason to replace your propane fridge with a HH fridge. Now, as a full-timer with a HH fridge, I would never own an RV with anything else.
I didn't actually search for it. But in my years RVing and paying attention to industry news, I haven't seen much about propane. Hope folks don't discover gasoline and diesel fuel burn too.
-- Edited by Racklefratz on Wednesday 18th of January 2012 02:31:32 AM
Bill Adams said
05:24 PM Jan 18, 2012
Obviously you did not research it, but the propane fridge (recently specifically the Norcold brand) is a fire hazard and that's nothing to joke about as you do in your post. Please get your facts right before you start shaking your head at others.
Jack Mayer said
06:49 PM Jan 18, 2012
Bill has assessed the situation correctly, as usual. :)
There are lots of fires that originate in propane refrigerators. Asked to define "lots", I could not. No statistics are available that I can find. I'm sure the manufacturers have stats, but for obvious reasons thay are not releasing them. But the fact that I PERSONALLY know of 5 people that have had fires gives me pause. Now, that said, statistically it still has to be a small percentage of all refrigerators.
As Bill said, it is just ONE factor to consider when deciding if a residential refrigerator is worth moving to. There are other advantages to a RR. I boondock a fair amount and will have one in the next rig. But it does add expense to support it, and that is certainly a factor to consider.
I have a halon automatic extinguisher in my propane refrigerator compartment. IMO, it is cheap insurance. Will it work as I hope if we have a fire? I expect so, but there are no guarantees in life. You mitigate risk as much as you can and then get on with things. Personally, I think all propane fridges should have some fire extinguishing capability given the number of fires. But that is just me....some people thrive on risk. I know people that tow 23K lb Teton 5th wheels with F350's. :)
bjoyce said
08:04 PM Jan 18, 2012
For a large 35' or longer RV with space for lots of batteries a residential fridge is a good choice. For something small like a 25' travel trailer that has room for maybe two batteries I think you will continue to see electric/propane fridges as the way to go. There are still many 50+ year old propane fridges in usage in remote areas and cabins since they were overbuilt and will run forever.
BTW: Most Norcolds failed when running on electric, not propane. I know ours did but we caught it before it caused a fire.
Neil and Connie said
09:24 PM Jan 18, 2012
Racklefratz wrote: Yes, more battery capacity, and that's exactly why RV propane refrigerators have evolved as they have. I read this post the other day, and it bothered me. I re-read it today, and it's bothering me enough to respond.
I don't know where you found all those "historical issues with RV propane powered ones", but obviously, you found them.
Jack and Bill have responded adequately for the safety issues . . .but the biggest reason we are going with residential is more space. We're pretty gourmet cooks and that means you have to have lots of ingredients available which means (once you add in the beer cooling requirement) that extra fridge space is better. It's true that gas and diesel burn as well . . .and it's true that the furnace and stove use propane as well; but it's the RV fridges that have caused a number of problems. I didn't research any statistics . . .just a general conclusion based on reading a lot as we have gone through our pre-purchase analysis.
Bill Adams said
03:00 AM Jan 19, 2012
As the owner of a residential fridge in my RV for the last 12+ years I can tell you that I would never be able to get my wife into any future RV without this option. She is also an excellent cook and enjoys the steady temperatures and (most importantly) the fact that we have not had to defrost the fridge during the entire 12 year period. We have ice and water through the door with a large ice storage bin that never seems to run out no matter how hard we try. The drinking water and water for the ice has its own high grade filter which allows us nearly bottled water quality water at all times and clean fresh ice. While the HH fridge is not an option for everyone, it is an absolute must for us!
Racklefratz said
03:38 AM Jan 19, 2012
laubenthal wrote:
Jack and Bill have responded adequately for the safety issues . . .but the biggest reason we are going with residential is more space. ... but it's the RV fridges that have caused a number of problems.
Yeah, "Jack and Bill" have reinforced the "don't do propane-RV refrigerator" hysteria adequately for the safety issues - I acknowledge that.
But in the real world, multi-thousands of RVs with functioning propane-powered refrigerators that don't burn down those RVs on a regular basis defacto debunk the myth that propane-fueled refrigerators are a death-wish, as is being suggested in this discussion. That's my only point. I "do the right thing" and turn off my frig when I pull in to the gas station to fill the truck's tanks, but other than that, it's a non-issue to me.
I see on this forum, as well as other RV-related forums, where people seem to want to go willy-nilly through their RVs and tear out the installed furniture and appliances, and, for whatever reason, install other stuff. Of course, some of these modifications make sense in terms of personal preferences, but most of it makes no sense to me at all.
At the end of the day, the bottom line is that RV manufacturers spend numerous manhours and big bucks optimizing the layout of these vehicles. It's ludicrous that they would purposely equip their products with appliances which would result in litigation against them.
Bill Adams said
04:36 AM Jan 19, 2012
I guess it's time for me to simply recommend that everyone ignore the postings by Racklefratz. This poster is clearly not "seeing" what others are posting. I don't think anyone here has recommended that you replace your propane fridge exclusively due to the known fire issues associated with the Norcold line of RV refrigerators. No one intentionally equipped their RV's with a defective fridge, but that does not make the defective fridge any less defective. My first RV had a Dometic propane fridge which worked without issue. However, had I gotten a recall notice from Dometic like the recall notice that Norcold owners have received (Stop using your Norcold immediately as its continued use could cause your RV to go up in flames!) I might have at least considered another brand if not a HH fridge.
Jack Mayer said
05:49 AM Jan 19, 2012
I beleive I said that "statistically it still has to be a small percentage of all refrigerators. " that have a fire issue. And I believe I also said that is only one factor to consider if looking at a residential refrigerator. Cost is a significant factor if remodeling is required, and Bill Joyce is correct that smaller units usually can not use a residential refrigerator because of support reasons if it is to be used offgrid. However, it is still a viable option for many people.
No one stated that RV refrigerators are a death-wish. To imply or state that is inaccurate.
BVC said
04:20 PM Jan 19, 2012
After reading these posts regarding Norcold refrigerators I will check mine when it comes out of winter storage. I think it's ok after reading the recall information on the web. However, you never know if the fridge was replaced when you buy used as we did. Still if I had a choice I would certainly consider a residential fridge. I did see on youtube a fridge that caught on fire because the recall was never taken care of. They show all the damage and it's not something to ignore. www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp2u6d3EQRg
Thanks for the heads up!
Bruce and Val
2002 Monaco Monarch and a Norcold Fridge
bjoyce said
05:09 PM Jan 19, 2012
I think Norcold finally got the recall right with their little box that has a light on it since now the fridge just quits instead of going up in flames. Dometic seemed to get their recall right the first time. If our Norcold cooling unit dies again we will debate what we should do. We will have decided on three choices: 1) get an Amish cooling unit, since we know people who have found they work great and a couple that were not happy but got their money back sending the unit back; 2) go with a Dometic instead since we were happy with our 12cuft Dometic in our previous motorhome; 3) go with a residential refrigerator which will be a major undertaking. Notice we are not looking at getting another Norcold cooling unit. For residential we will have more work to do. We have enough trouble boondocking with 4 AGM golf cart batteries now. We need to find space for more batteries. That will require building a space to move the two chassis batteries, dumping our now "too old" AGMs and buying 6 new ones which will be AGMs for the same reasons we have them now. Maybe putting in a separate inverter for the fridge to not overload our 2000 watt Prosine or get a larger Magnasine. Plus the residentials are 5" taller (at least the models people are putting in for similar motorhomes), which requires cabinet work and will not give much clearance for the propane furnace that is below the fridge. That will all be a hassle and finding someone to do the work since I am not that handy.
But I don't expect to get a Honda 3000 just to get the title of this thread and the content back on track.
Neil and Connie said
11:57 PM Jan 20, 2012
So . . .just to check my math because one thing us submariners learned to do real early was double check everything.
The Honda 3000 outputs 3000 watts which once converted to 12v for battery charging is 250 amps DC. Figure a 80% conversion rate efficiency and that's 200 amps. The Xantrex or Magnum inverter chargers only put out 125-150 amps so the limiting factor in charge rate is the inverter/charger and the batteries themselves and not the genset.
I realize that the charger drops down from bulk rate to absorption rate to float rate as the battery gets closer to full; but was wondering how quickly you got most of the way charged. Remembering back to my submarine days; if you were charging the battery that was about 50-60% charged you got pretty much max charging rate up to about 80 or 85 % full then it started dropping down. Extrapolating this to your typical 800 amphour rv battery bank coming up from 50% charge of 400 amphours remaining . . .I figure the first hour you get 125-150 (depending on inverter charger capacity) amphours so you're up to 550 after an hour; another 100-125 the second hour so two hours gets you to about 650 in the battery (82% say) and it takes another 2 hours or so to top off to full.
Is that about right? Sure; they're AGMs which have a slightly different charge curve than the wet cells on the boats . . .but I'm just looking for a ballpark figure anyway.
We may eventually end up with solar panels depending on how much boondocking we end up doing. While we have today's understanding of how we're going to live the lifestyle . . .I'm sure that it's different than our understanding will be after a year on the road.
Jack Mayer said
06:29 PM Jan 21, 2012
Well, IMO a Honda 2000 will power a 100 amp charge section at near sea level, but it won't power more, and it won't do it at elevation. So you may have to set your max charge rate down with power sharing.
Also, the max amount that the battery bank will take is totally dependent on the size of the bank and the deficit. On an average overnight usage on a previous RV I had a morning deficit of about 100-125 DC amphours on a 420 Ah battery bank. So around 25% deficit. With a Honda 2000 providing the charge through a Heart Freedom 458 inverter/charger (100 amp charge section), I would drop out of bulk within a half hour or so. Typically that would restore "maybe" 40-50 Ah, depending on how long the genset ran and the battery actual SOC and the condition of the bank. I would depend on solar to do the rest - which is an ideal application for solar charging.
AGM batteries will take more power, faster. So will perform at a "higher" level than noted above for flooded cell golf cart batteries.
Any serious boondocker needs to plan on solar. By serious, I mean those who boondock for more than a week more than a few times a year. The cost of solar has dropped quite a bit. It is pretty easy to find panels for under $1.50 a watt. And you can find a good PWM controller for $160 or so....maybe less, depending on what you buy. You should already have a battery monitor, even if you have just been using a generator to charge with. That is the FIRST improvement to make - at the same time you put in a battery bank. So adding solar is not as big a deal, costwise, as it once was.
Neil and Connie said
12:00 AM Jan 22, 2012
Jack Mayer wrote:
Well, IMO a Honda 2000 will power a 100 amp charge section at near sea level, but it won't power more, and it won't do it at elevation. So you may have to set your max charge rate down with power sharing. Any serious boondocker needs to plan on solar. By serious, I mean those who boondock for more than a week more than a few times a year.
Thanks Jack . . .wanted to make sure my calcs were in the right ballpark. The engineering degree said they were but then I've never actually tried it.
Serious boondocker . . .now there's the rub. Connie and I have no idea how much we'll want to park competely off the grid; but we're getting solar pre-wiring on our rig and the large inverter/charger to start . . .we'll figure out pretty quickly how much we end up boondocking I reckon and add the panels/controller if we are going that way.
We are making plans for our first winter trip, Have one week reserved in aTexas campground to thaw out the camper and will play the rest as it goes. I have a honda 3000 generator , should I bring it? We are in a 28 ft 5er.
Another thing, just a suggestion, If you are coming down from the "North" into Texas, and your first night will be around Fort Worth/Dallas, I would highly recommend Oak Creek RV Park near Weatherford, TX. It is all on cement and the people are great. You will not need a reservation but it would be nice that you would contact them. About 70 Big Rig Pull thrus and many back ins. Hot tub runs all winter.
Fritz
You may need to determine how you want to use a generator. If you are in an RV park there should be no need for a generator as you will be connected to their shore power. If you are headed to a park such as State or Engineer sites which are dry camp you likely would want to bring a generator assuming they are allowed. If you are going to be looking to find some BLM land and curl up for awhile you absolutely are going to want to have a generator (or a very large solar array at a minimum).
Lindy,
While the Honda 3000 is a good unit, it will only run one of your air conditioners when they are needed. However, even the 3000's are like the 2000's in that one can slave 2 of them together to double your power to manage both of your air conditioners plus some.
The issue to me would be the weight. If one were to go with two, you would be looking at 300 lbs total, plus the gasoline. Not sure what the 6500 weighs, but two 3000's could be man-handled separately.
However, regardless of which way one could go, I would be leary of putting that much weight on the rear hitch and see it start bouncing around on rough roads.
You know.....like Oklahoma roads?
Jo and I are a wee bit interested in getting a second one, but we will haul ours in our truck bed.
Terry
I'm not completely sure we will even get a Generator, we are always at a RV park with 50 amp service. We are really looking into a Generator to power the residential type Fridge, I think the residential is so much more efficent than the typical RV fridge. The generator would be used to power the fridge if by chance the Chevy 3500HD were to have a mechanical issue...
However there are many things happening now, if we sell the house we would order another Mobile Suites and then the Generator would for sure be in the picture, we would go with a residential fridge.
As for the rear hitch, thats not really a issue, after towing the Chevy HHR for 2 years I fully trust the rear Hitch. The rear hitch factory option is well done. I took the Suites to a welder who has been in business for over 50 years and he inspected the rear hitch and his comment was, job well done... And yes I'm certainly aware of Oklahoma roads I lived in Ok. for two years and crossed I-40 twice in the last 3 years. But our summer trip to Colorado in 2012 we will cross I-70 as it the best route for our destination.
I seen a Honda Generator mounted on the rear hitch of a Keystone 5th wheel while in Northern New Mexico (Taos) this passed summer but didn't get a chance to talk to the owner, moved on before day light next morning, and from the looks it had been there for several years....
Also its very easy to have a 3 point hitch added to the Suites and it of sure will handle the 6500 Honda without a issue.. I hauled a Generator in the bed of the Truck for several years and just don't like doing that. I could for sure mount two 2,000 Honda's on the Hauler bed, but then its lugging them around when needed. And the Generator would only be used during travel in most cases.... Oh well there is always something to think about. Life is good.... Happy Trails.......
Hi to all on this thread:
We are about to become full timers with a DRV 38RESB3 in the spring and generators are a decision we have not finalized yet.
Built in (Onan) or portable (Honda, Yamaha)?
We realize the cost differance but there is also the convenience. Then there is the issue of how much it really is required? At this time we are planning at only staying at RV parks with power but that could change. We will be starting our travels in the East and than going to the West as the years go by.
We need the experience that is so available from all that are on this site. We know there is no correct answer that will fit all RVers but all opinions will be of great value.
Thanks in advance for all your times
Morgan
You may find as you go out west and also get "in" with a boondocking buhnch that you do boondock some. Then you could jjust buy a Honda 2000 for battery charging. If you don't boondock a LOT then that will be sufficient for the occasional 3-7 days of boondocking. If you boondock much longer than that,then you likely will want some solar.
One thing you should have done if you are building the rig new is to either put an inverter in now, or at least get inverter prep. You want the subpanel in from the manuf. That is the hardest thing to retrofit if you decide to do it later.
Hey, hey. Welcome to the RV Dreams forum. I have seen your posts elsewhere. likely on SOITC. Over there, we are millerjnt.
When we ordered our Mobile Suites last year, we did just as Jack suggested. We had generator prep done plus ordered the inverter option. In our case, with so many computerized devices, we opted for the pure sine wave inverter as opposed to the modified sine wave option.
In our research, it was decided to go that route so that we could recharge the batteries with our Honda EU3000IS generator. While it won't run both air conditioners, we don't plan on boondocking in hot places. If we boondock, it will mostly be in mountainous areas.
We already had the Honda generator, but we did seriously consider the onboard Onan. But, with nearly 300 lbs (versus 150 for the Honda) and $6000 in cost for the Onan, we decided to stay with the Honda.
On another DRV owner's coach, we noticed a socket at the front just above and to the left of the front compartment that one could plug in a cable from an external generator. If you are interested in that, contact Fritz and Cheryl either here or on SOITC. I am planning on retrofitting ours with a similar socket.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Friday 16th of December 2011 12:01:49 PM
Connie and I have decided on a portable. The Onan built in is about 6 or 7 thousand and the Honda or Yamaha maybe 1000. With the amount we'll be using it; the larger one doesn't make as much sense since we'll be spending most of our time in parks with hookups.
We're also getting a residential fridge; more efficient, larger, lots of historical issues with RV propane powered ones, fire safety, etc. We'll just run it on the inverter/battery while traveling as Jack suggests. The only real key is you'll need more battery capacity than you normally might get just in case you get stuck at Wallyworld overnight.
Loki,
With a 38' coach and the electric in the rear of the coach, we would have to have an extension in order to reach from the rear of the coach to the rear of the pickup. Since our coach already has generator prep, wiring from the rear of the coach to the front of the coach has already been done. With a socket in the front, I wouldn't need as long of an extension to reach from the pickup to the coach.
Now for MorganCDN's comment:
In our case, we ordered our Mobile Suites with an inverter and that included two extra batteries. If you were to look at a picture of the front of our coach, you would see an extra door for a compartment to the left of the front storage door.
The only things I liked about the Onan was that it was equipped with a "valve" where one could adjust the carburator for the altitude where one was parked and it is a big enough generator to power both air conditioners.
When we go from Oklahoma City to the mountains of Colorado, our Honda generator runs rich on fuel, leading to fouling of the plugs. While we have to either clean the plugs or replace them, I can replace a lot of plugs for the price of an Onan.
As for the need of a generator for running both air conditioners, I can always buy another Honda EU3000IS and slave them together or make sure any need of a generator is in the mountains where I don't need air conditioning.
Terry
Yes, more battery capacity, and that's exactly why RV propane refrigerators have evolved as they have. I read this post the other day, and it bothered me. I re-read it today, and it's bothering me enough to respond.
I don't know where you found all those "historical issues with RV propane powered ones", but obviously, you found them. We've been RVing nearly 20 years now, and frankly, I haven't seen those "issues", either on the internet, talking to people, or in our personal experience. If propane-powered equipment were truly risky, we'd be reading about propane-related calamities frequently, and it's doubtful that they would have acquired the common usage they obviously have in the industry.
We accept propane for heating our RVs, and any added risk associated with our refrigerators is hard for me to worry a lot about.
Use whatever rationalization makes you comfortable to justify your residential refrigerator installation, but the overall RVing experience just can't be used to statistically support an argument against propane-powered refrigerators.
As a side note, while many RVs have burned (or charred) it's still a very tiny percentage of the total number or propane fridges in use and certainly not a singular reason to replace your propane fridge with a HH fridge.
Now, as a full-timer with a HH fridge, I would never own an RV with anything else.
I didn't actually search for it. But in my years RVing and paying attention to industry news, I haven't seen much about propane. Hope folks don't discover gasoline and diesel fuel burn too.
-- Edited by Racklefratz on Wednesday 18th of January 2012 02:31:32 AM
There are lots of fires that originate in propane refrigerators. Asked to define "lots", I could not. No statistics are available that I can find. I'm sure the manufacturers have stats, but for obvious reasons thay are not releasing them. But the fact that I PERSONALLY know of 5 people that have had fires gives me pause. Now, that said, statistically it still has to be a small percentage of all refrigerators.
As Bill said, it is just ONE factor to consider when deciding if a residential refrigerator is worth moving to. There are other advantages to a RR. I boondock a fair amount and will have one in the next rig. But it does add expense to support it, and that is certainly a factor to consider.
I have a halon automatic extinguisher in my propane refrigerator compartment. IMO, it is cheap insurance. Will it work as I hope if we have a fire? I expect so, but there are no guarantees in life. You mitigate risk as much as you can and then get on with things. Personally, I think all propane fridges should have some fire extinguishing capability given the number of fires. But that is just me....some people thrive on risk. I know people that tow 23K lb Teton 5th wheels with F350's. :)
BTW: Most Norcolds failed when running on electric, not propane. I know ours did but we caught it before it caused a fire.
Jack and Bill have responded adequately for the safety issues . . .but the biggest reason we are going with residential is more space. We're pretty gourmet cooks and that means you have to have lots of ingredients available which means (once you add in the beer cooling requirement) that extra fridge space is better. It's true that gas and diesel burn as well . . .and it's true that the furnace and stove use propane as well; but it's the RV fridges that have caused a number of problems. I didn't research any statistics . . .just a general conclusion based on reading a lot as we have gone through our pre-purchase analysis.
While the HH fridge is not an option for everyone, it is an absolute must for us!
Yeah, "Jack and Bill" have reinforced the "don't do propane-RV refrigerator" hysteria adequately for the safety issues - I acknowledge that.
But in the real world, multi-thousands of RVs with functioning propane-powered refrigerators that don't burn down those RVs on a regular basis defacto debunk the myth that propane-fueled refrigerators are a death-wish, as is being suggested in this discussion. That's my only point. I "do the right thing" and turn off my frig when I pull in to the gas station to fill the truck's tanks, but other than that, it's a non-issue to me.
I see on this forum, as well as other RV-related forums, where people seem to want to go willy-nilly through their RVs and tear out the installed furniture and appliances, and, for whatever reason, install other stuff. Of course, some of these modifications make sense in terms of personal preferences, but most of it makes no sense to me at all.
At the end of the day, the bottom line is that RV manufacturers spend numerous manhours and big bucks optimizing the layout of these vehicles. It's ludicrous that they would purposely equip their products with appliances which would result in litigation against them.
No one stated that RV refrigerators are a death-wish. To imply or state that is inaccurate.
Thanks for the heads up!
Bruce and Val
2002 Monaco Monarch and a Norcold Fridge
But I don't expect to get a Honda 3000 just to get the title of this thread and the content back on track.
So . . .just to check my math because one thing us submariners learned to do real early was double check everything.
The Honda 3000 outputs 3000 watts which once converted to 12v for battery charging is 250 amps DC. Figure a 80% conversion rate efficiency and that's 200 amps. The Xantrex or Magnum inverter chargers only put out 125-150 amps so the limiting factor in charge rate is the inverter/charger and the batteries themselves and not the genset.
I realize that the charger drops down from bulk rate to absorption rate to float rate as the battery gets closer to full; but was wondering how quickly you got most of the way charged. Remembering back to my submarine days; if you were charging the battery that was about 50-60% charged you got pretty much max charging rate up to about 80 or 85 % full then it started dropping down. Extrapolating this to your typical 800 amphour rv battery bank coming up from 50% charge of 400 amphours remaining . . .I figure the first hour you get 125-150 (depending on inverter charger capacity) amphours so you're up to 550 after an hour; another 100-125 the second hour so two hours gets you to about 650 in the battery (82% say) and it takes another 2 hours or so to top off to full.
Is that about right? Sure; they're AGMs which have a slightly different charge curve than the wet cells on the boats . . .but I'm just looking for a ballpark figure anyway.
We may eventually end up with solar panels depending on how much boondocking we end up doing. While we have today's understanding of how we're going to live the lifestyle . . .I'm sure that it's different than our understanding will be after a year on the road.
Also, the max amount that the battery bank will take is totally dependent on the size of the bank and the deficit. On an average overnight usage on a previous RV I had a morning deficit of about 100-125 DC amphours on a 420 Ah battery bank. So around 25% deficit. With a Honda 2000 providing the charge through a Heart Freedom 458 inverter/charger (100 amp charge section), I would drop out of bulk within a half hour or so. Typically that would restore "maybe" 40-50 Ah, depending on how long the genset ran and the battery actual SOC and the condition of the bank. I would depend on solar to do the rest - which is an ideal application for solar charging.
AGM batteries will take more power, faster. So will perform at a "higher" level than noted above for flooded cell golf cart batteries.
Any serious boondocker needs to plan on solar. By serious, I mean those who boondock for more than a week more than a few times a year. The cost of solar has dropped quite a bit. It is pretty easy to find panels for under $1.50 a watt. And you can find a good PWM controller for $160 or so....maybe less, depending on what you buy. You should already have a battery monitor, even if you have just been using a generator to charge with. That is the FIRST improvement to make - at the same time you put in a battery bank. So adding solar is not as big a deal, costwise, as it once was.
Thanks Jack . . .wanted to make sure my calcs were in the right ballpark. The engineering degree said they were but then I've never actually tried it.
Serious boondocker . . .now there's the rub. Connie and I have no idea how much we'll want to park competely off the grid; but we're getting solar pre-wiring on our rig and the large inverter/charger to start . . .we'll figure out pretty quickly how much we end up boondocking I reckon and add the panels/controller if we are going that way.