Update on the 2012 Chevy 3500HD, ordered the Duraflaps (mud flaps) and mounted them yesterday. The 2012 now is complete, I always run the Duraflaps, which have the Reining Horse stainless steel on the bottom. I had to make some changes to fit the CM Hauler Bed. Will post a pic when the Sun returns. They make a very Professional product and there is no drilling when you mount them on OEM equipment.. I highly recomend DuraFlaps... Happy Trails...
P.S. Delaine had to have a set also for her Tahoe.....
James and Cindy said
04:06 PM Nov 14, 2011
Lindy, How much heavier is the hauler bed than the factory bed? How much does your trailer weigh loaded to travel?
James
Delaine and Lindy said
05:17 PM Nov 14, 2011
The Mobile Suites weight is 17,500 loaded and ready to travel, I don't know how much difference the Hauler bed weight is but I'm sure it will be heavier. But thats just a guess. The hauler bed is longer that the OEM truck bed and its all steel. When we leave Florida I will get the total weight and will have a better idea in the weigh difference vs the OEM truck bed. I know the in-bed tank is Aluminum and will add 345 lbs of fuel. Happy Trails....
Bill and Linda said
08:16 AM Nov 16, 2011
Delaine and Lindy wrote:
The Mobile Suites weight is 17,500 loaded and ready to travel, I don't know how much difference the Hauler bed weight is but I'm sure it will be heavier. But thats just a guess. The hauler bed is longer that the OEM truck bed and its all steel. When we leave Florida I will get the total weight and will have a better idea in the weigh difference vs the OEM truck bed. I know the in-bed tank is Aluminum and will add 345 lbs of fuel. Happy Trails....
I’ve been looking at that bed weight factor as well.The 2012 Chevy’s are good for 30,500lbs GCVWR.(A further Increase from the 2011 model.)I won’t go into all the increased axle capacity numbers except to say the 2012’s will be just fine with a hauler bed, aux tank as Delaine indicated and a 17,500lb 5’er with a lot of weight capacity to spare. (I've done the math on a like kind unit.)
It’s hard to believe, but these 2012’s are actually MDT’s as far as ratings are concerned.Yes, an HDT would be a fine choice, but the numbers are the numbers and they are amazing for a “pickup truck” (which they really aren’t anymore.)
Nice choice for the rig, Delaine.
Bill
Terry and Jo said
06:38 PM Nov 16, 2011
Just out of curiosity, what is the GVWR for a GMC 3500 for 2012? I've tried finding that out, but so far I have found it, even in the GMC brochures. If I remember right, the Class 4 trucks (low end of MDT) starts at 14,001 lbs.
Terry
Bill and Linda said
08:09 PM Nov 16, 2011
Terry and Jo wrote:
Just out of curiosity, what is the GVWR for a GMC 3500 for 2012? I've tried finding that out, but so far I have found it, even in the GMC brochures. If I remember right, the Class 4 trucks (low end of MDT) starts at 14,001 lbs.
Terry
Between 13,400 and 13,000 depending on the configuration of the truck.Yep, technically, according to one of the standards, not an MDT. Under another standard it is. (Under the DOT VIUS survey it’s an MDT.)Anyway that’s a good thing for me that it is not an MDT by one standard.I can get a truck 3500 series DWR truck with what for years were MDT ratings for GCVWR, trailer towing ratings and front and rear axle ratings, which is what matters for most RVers, and here’s the punch line, at lower insurance rates because it is not a 4500 (F-450 if you like) series truck.At least in my case that is true.Nothing wrong if you want an MDT, go for it.We just now have more options within ratings safety limits and that was my point.(As you know almost all of the time the GVWR won’t be the limiting factor for towing.It will be GCVWR and axle / tire ratings.)
GM (and Ford and Dodge) have significantly upped the ratings of their 3500 series trucks which make them much more applicable for RVers who would rather have that, let’s call it the “3500 series style” of truck.
Cool, more options
Bill
IWantaCampMore said
03:19 AM Nov 17, 2011
Just so we are clear, the Truck in question is a 2011 or 2012 Chevrolet/ GMC Long or Short ? Wheel Base bed, 3500HD Dual rear wheel Crew Cab? Just need clarification, so to get the right TV for our Mobile Suite. Thanks
Delaine and Lindy said
07:16 AM Nov 17, 2011
As a result of the changes, fifth-wheel towing numbers have been raised from the 21,700 pounds to 23,000 pounds for 2012. Likewise, payload capacity has been raised (for the 3500 dual-rear-wheel regular cab 6.0-liter V-8) from 6,635 to 7,215 pounds. And finally, the maximum conventional trailer weight capacity is now 18,000 pounds, up from 17,000 from last year.
Delaine and Lindy said
08:14 AM Nov 17, 2011
Everyone has to remember, any Truck numbers are a guide only.. I haven't owned a Ford or Dodge, I have always owned GM Trucks. You can order a GM Trucks and strip all the options down to the base Truck and the ratings will be higher. However you want find a stripped down GM Truck on a Dealerships lot. The more options the more profit or money to be made. You can find whats called a WT work truck. I have owned 5 GM 3500HD DRWs trucks and all 5 can tow any Suites made since Drv has optioned the disk brakes the GM 3500HDs DRWs will stop the load with ease. However you will possible be over on gross tow rating. GM no longer makes a GM 4500/5500 series truck. I owned the 2006 Chevy 4500 Kodiak. It was a great towing Trucks. It was a much heavier Truck, brakes etc and the tow rating depending on the rear gear (my rear gear was 538) was up to 26,000, GM would no go over that rating, due to the requirement of drivers lic. However the HP was only 300hp and the weight full of fuel (148 gals) and ready to tow the weight was 10,900. And when towing the 5th wheel the weight was 27,900 lbs.
I'm not trying to sell anyone on the GM Trucks... I only posted for information only. The GM 2012's are not considered a MDT. I also have owned a true MDT, which was a Freighliner M2, and outstanding Truck. I downsized after researching the GM upgrades on the suspension, larger hauling capacity, larger braking system, exhaust brake, different shocks etc. I just prefer GM Trucks are Trucks the best, I can't answer that, I will say GM is the best for my use.
Only reading about the Fords, F-450 when it first hit the ground, I think was considered a MDT as for as a pickup. But it was still a pickup Truck. It had the 19.5" tires, just a heavier Truck all around, the fuel mileage wasn't what Ford needed. The Ford rear gear on the Job 1 truck was a 4.88 which delivered poor fuel mileage and adding larger, tires heavier Truck the mileage suffered. Now Ford has down graded the F 450, and other changes to increase fuel mileage. Don't know if it has helped fuel mileage, I'm sure it did. But Truck owners know Trucks aren't designed for fuel mileage, they are designed for heavy towing and hauling.
Over all I'm highly satisfied with the 2011's and 2012's, the ride is much better than prior GM 3500's, fuel mileage is better, towing performance is the best of all the 3500HD's I have owned in the past. This past summer we traveled over 6,850 miles and tow over the same passes as did the Freightliner in 2010. The GM 3500HD DRW's performed as well if not better in some areas. HP for one was much better that the FL, maintaining the speed up the passes and down the passes was better. The response is great on the 2011 GM 3500HD.
I also like the fact GM is still using the same Duramax/Allison as it put on line when the Duramax/Allisons hit the ground with. The only changes GM has made is upgrades to the Duramax/Allison. The Duramax/Allison is a proven combo with millions of miles. However in 2013/14 the GM Truck body will be upgraded, I really don't thing there will be but a few changes in the Duramax/Allison and or the suspension. So I will have no problem in upgrading. So its just a choice or what your likes or dislikes are when buying a Truck. I do believe GM has the best drive train and suspension they have ever put on the market. Just for comparison when your at the GM dealership take a look at the Chevy 3500HD and the picture of the frame twist vs the F 350 it will give you a eye opener.
Happy Trails....
Jack Mayer said
10:47 AM Nov 17, 2011
The new GM 3500's are fine trucks. Always have been, althought in the past Ford had higher capacity pickups.
What concerns me is that the ratings encourage people to max out and even overload the trucks. And the "race" to have the highest ratings just makes this worse. I would NEVER be comfortable towing a GCW of 30K with the 3500 class vehicles on an everyday basis. Now, granted, I have not towed that load with the new trucks. But I have towed over 31K with an F550 and IMO it is a scarey proposition. Can it be done, yes it can. But in anything but optimal conditions it is not something I would want to routinely do.
These new pickups are VERY capable. But please use good sense when considering what to buy and use. When you get into the 18-20K+ trailers you really need to consider how these tow vehicles will hold up over the long haul, and what happens to a pickup in an emergency maneuver with a trailer that weighs more than twice what the truck weighs. Just food for thought.
Delaine and Lindy said
11:38 AM Nov 17, 2011
Jack I agree, and when we were double towing the Chevy HHR behind the Mobiles Suites I did move up to the Freightliner. Towed the Chevy HHR over two years, and never a issue with the combination... However I no longer double tow because there was no way I could get the combination under 65' we were at 75'. And if I was using the GM 3500HD towing 6 or 7 days a week I would have kept the Freightliner. Towing with our Chevy Kodiak 4500 was great. However I feel as comfortable towing with the GM 3500HD. Kinda wish I had the numbers on the drive train of the 4500 vs the upgraded 3500HDs. The major difference was the rear gear I think as for braking I don't think there is as much difference. I haven't gotten the weight on the 2012 3500HD, aren't many Truck stops were we are for the winter...
I have had many PM's wanting to know why I went back to a GM 3500HD. The answer is I don't have a use for the Freightliner. And based on past experience with the GM 3500 and after owning the 2011 Chevy 3500HD there is no doubt the 2012 3500HD will fill my needs..
I do recommend anyone towing heavy to stay within their ability and research what type Truck you need. For the Mobile Suites there is no reason to have a HDT/MDT. That is based on my experience as a retired Truck driver and owning two Mobile Suites pulled with a Freightliner and a GM 3500 and the current weight on the Suites is 17,500 lbs + or -. My past experience is different than most RVer's.
For those who want or have a need for a HDT/MDT there are many out there. I do believe you can have to much Trailer but never to much Truck. Happy Trails....
Bill and Linda said
02:01 PM Nov 17, 2011
I agree with Jack and Delaine but I will add the following which probably better expresses my point.
I shouldn’t have even mentioned the MDT thing.Sorry, my mistake.But if you will notice the GCVWR ratings of the 3500 series truck is now much higher than the former 4500 series (MDT) truck as Delaine outlined well.My point was that the 3500 series trucks have been seriously upgraded. They are not the same truck they were just 2 years ago. The frames, brake size, axle ratings, tire size, transmission, etc. etc. have been significantly upgraded from the former era 3500 / F-350 trucks. The frames, brake size, etc. have no resemblance to their forbearers.Because of this they are rated and well capable of handling many 5ers that here-to-for shouldn’t be pulled with 3500 / F-350 trucks.(The Allison 1,000 transmission has also been upgraded by 30% from the former 26,000lb rating.These are not the same truck as the 2010’s and prior years.)
I’ve driven semis professionally including Class 8 trucks. I have a bit of experience with big trailers and trucks.IMO, if properly equipped and kept within their ratings these 2012 GM 3500's (F-350) are just fine – kept within their ratings – if that is your choice.That was my point.Many of these “pickup trucks” are much more capable / safer now.In fact and in some cases even more capable by ratings than what used to found on some trucks with “bigger numbers” on the side. I.e. 4500 / F-450.
If you were to double tow then the 3500 / F-350 GCVWR would be exceeded and I wouldn’t do it.Therefore, it is not an acceptable choice for that and other reasons.But with the ratings and size of the Mobile Suites trailer in question the 2012 trucks are within all their specs regardless of the “badge” on the side of the truck.(I.e. 4500 / F-450.)
As I said, we have more choices now that are safer with much higher ratings.Marketing or not, ratings are ratings and some of us need an MDT, some an HDT and some just an LDT.It just depends.
Safe travels
Bill
Bill and Linda said
04:26 PM Nov 17, 2011
IWantaCampMore wrote:
Just so we are clear, the Truck in question is a 2011 or 2012 Chevrolet/ GMC Long or Short ? Wheel Base bed, 3500HD Dual rear wheel Crew Cab? Just need clarification, so to get the right TV for our Mobile Suite. Thanks
The truck I am referring to and that I believe Delaine has is:
2012 Chevy/GMC 3500HD, DRW, Crew Cab, Long Bed / Duramax / Allison
The 3500HD’s DRW only come in long bed.
(Probably 4 wheel drive, not sure in Delaine’s case if it is a 4x4. If I were to purchase one it would be a 4x4 but this brings on a lot of discussion as well.Me, I’ve used 4x4 a lot even in campgrounds in the states. I've got 4x4 on all my vehicles.)
The pdf spec sheet for the trucks as pertains to the towing capacities, etc.is on the GM website. But the truck as outlined above gives a max 5th wheel rating of 22,400lbs and a combined truck and trailer rating of 30,500 lbs. I am not saying that's good or bad. However, that is what GM gives as the truck's capability. The Ford F-350 is not quite as high, but was also increased for model year 2012 as I recall. Hope this helps
Safe travels
Bill
IWantaCampMore said
05:04 PM Nov 17, 2011
Thank you Bill for the answer to my question.
Terry and Jo said
07:30 AM Nov 18, 2011
One does need to be careful with the choice of a truck, and to be sure and do the necessary research. I suspect that if one goes by the "Tow Rating," one can get overloaded on gross combined weight ratings (GCVW).
For instance, our 2008 F450 has a tow rating of 24,600 lbs and a GCVW of 33,000 lbs. With the truck having a GVWR of 14,500 lbs, if I were to load the coach to its tow rating and the truck to its GVWR, I would definitely be overweight on GCVW. If I was at max on the Mobile Suites at 18,500 lbs and max on the truck at 14,500 lbs, I would be right at the maximum on the F450's GCVW with 33,000 lbs..
I should also mention that while Lindy's 38RSSB is 17,500 lbs, DRV's website gives a max GVWR on that model of 18,500 lbs. I have no doubt that Lindy knows what his unit weighs, but it might be that his unit will be different than everyone elses. Jo and I are living full time in our 38TKSB3 and it is just about at its maximum of 18,500 lbs.
When looking at RV's and their empty weight, it should be noted that those weights will not include any options that one chooses to add, such as inverters, washer/dryer, Level-Up, etc.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Friday 18th of November 2011 07:30:46 AM
Delaine and Lindy said
10:53 AM Nov 18, 2011
Your correct about loading the 5er for full timing..... In 2005 we bought a Cambridge by Keystone, I'm not for sure but I believe the rating for the 2005 Chevy 3500HD's was 23,500 lbs. The combined weight for the 2005 GMC 3500HDs was 24,600 lbs. I then went to the 2006 Chevy Kodiak 4500 up-fitted by Chariot Vans, it was a great truck and had a rating of 26,000 lbs. The combined weight was 27,900 lbs. the Kodiak weigh was 10,900 lbs thats loaded and ready to travel, had a 148 gal of fuel. We were over on the Gross for the 5th wheel. I could never understand why we were so heavy! Well thats until we sold the Cambridge, it took two days or more to empty the 5th wheel. I then learned a valuable lesson, we were hauling stuff that wasn't needed. We now travel very light, the basement in our 38 RSSB 3 has a sliding tray and enough room to remove the front wheels and roll two full size bikes into the basement and we still have plenty of room. And if we go back to full timing we will not add anything. We also have many cabinets which have very little stuff in them. We just this morning was discussing a storage place for stuff we want be hauling around in the 5er if we decided to go full timing again. The key is Stuff you don't use on a regular basic. We never haul around any water. Its amazing what people haul around, take a look at their basements, many are full no space left at all.. We never travel with the pantry full, we wait until we get to destination to stock the pantry. The same for your Truck check the stuff your hauling around, are those things really used??
I haven't got the weight on he 2012 Chevy 3500HD it will be a heavier Truck, due to the hauler bed and the in-bed fuel tank. I will get the weights on our return to home base next April 2012. I really don't believe I will be close at all to the 30,500 lbs. For those pickup the new Mobile Suite get the weight. Our Mobile Suites at all corners... the weight before adding anything was 15,465 leaving 3,035 lbs to reach a total of 18,500. And we added about a ton of weight. That don't include water...... Each time we buy anything weight is aways the question... The GM 3500HDs I have owned in the past all weights were 8,500 lbs + or -. My weight could be up to 12,500 lbs with the 2012 Chevy to get to 30,500 lbs, my Freightliners weight was a little over 14,000 lbs again loaded for travel and the total Freightliner, Mobile Suites, hooked to the Chevy HHR was a little over 34,400 lbs. The weights were all Cat Scale weights. I have read were the F 450 were heavy but I didn't realize they were so heavy??? I can understand the fuel mileage of the early F 450 (Job 1's), and with the 4.88 rear gear. But I can tell you weight will slip up on you... Happy Trails........
-- Edited by Delaine and Lindy on Friday 18th of November 2011 10:58:05 AM
Bill and Linda said
12:35 PM Nov 18, 2011
BTW, we have all been referring to max trailer weight and Gross Combined weights, but we must also look at the front and rear axle ratings of these trucks in making our selection.(The axle ratings will never exceed the factory delivered tire ratings so no worries there at least with the OEM tires weight rating wise.)
For a 2012 – Chevy 3500HD DRW / 4WD / Crew Cab / Diesel the axle ratings have been increased: 5,600lbs for the front axle and 9,375lbs for the rear axle / springs.The specifications then list a total payload of 5,133lbs. I.e. what you can put in / on the truck which would naturally include the pin weight of the trailer, tools, aux fuel tanks, etc. The total allowable weight of the truck itself, in the configuration listed above, is 13,000lbs.
The trouble with all this is that all these numbers can be confusing until you do a bit of research and understand them fully like Jack and many others on this forum do.But all this can get pretty confusing and I will say that many dealers, GM, Chevy, Ford or Dodge, etc. that sell these trucks don’t fully understand the tow ratings themselves or how to figure them – at least the average sales person doesn’t.So just a word to the wise to self-educate yourself before purchasing so you know you’re getting what you need for your particular application.I would also be cautious of any “on-line” weight calculators until you fully understand all the numbers and also assure yourself that the on-line calculators have the correct numbers for the model year truck in question along with its specific configuration.I.e. 4WD / Crew Cab, etc.The math is really easy. Understanding what numbers go where, what they mean and how they add up, or don’t add in some case, that’s the hard part.
Safe travels
Bill
Racerguy said
02:41 PM Nov 18, 2011
It was mentioned that weight can creep on you if you aren't careful. I can attest to that.When we sold our trailer and truck last month it took us two days to unpack the trailer and find a place for stuff in our small condo.As we unpacked then repacked stuff it was amazing the things we said" I thought we would use that" that we didn't even remember taking with us. We were running within 1,000 lbs of our gcwr and could have been lighter than that and got by just fine.Clothing was by far our biggest problem.We took way to much clothing.
Jack Mayer said
05:09 PM Nov 18, 2011
Only 2 days......gee it took about a week for us to move from the Royals International to the New Horizons.... :)
Neil and Connie said
08:01 PM Dec 28, 2011
Racerguy wrote:
Clothing was by far our biggest problem.We took way to much clothing.
What would you define as "the right amount? of clothes? Obviously everyboy is different . . .and Connie and I have no idea how much to take so would likely take too much and then toss it in 6 months . . .much better to get it "right" the first time. I was thinking 2 pairs of jeans and 2 dockers for me, a half dozen T shirts, half dozen assorted gold/rugby/dress shirts. A pair of dress pants and a blazer with perhaps a suit in deep storage under the bed. Connie was thinking (she's a woman so naturally wants more) 6 pants, dozen tops, 2-3 nice outfits, 2 dresses. Couple of pairs of shorts each as well along with unmentionables.
Is that a reasonable number . . .or is space not quite as tight as I'm thinking and perhaps we've gone too minimal? We'll know the real answer when we pack of course . . .but trying to get a feel for it ahead of time.
Terry and Jo said
07:34 AM Dec 29, 2011
laubenthal wrote:
What would you define as "the right amount? of clothes? Obviously everyboy is different . . .and Connie and I have no idea how much to take so would likely take too much and then toss it in 6 months . . .much better to get it "right" the first time. I was thinking 2 pairs of jeans and 2 dockers for me, a half dozen T shirts, half dozen assorted gold/rugby/dress shirts. A pair of dress pants and a blazer with perhaps a suit in deep storage under the bed. Connie was thinking (she's a woman so naturally wants more) 6 pants, dozen tops, 2-3 nice outfits, 2 dresses. Couple of pairs of shorts each as well along with unmentionables.
Is that a reasonable number . . .or is space not quite as tight as I'm thinking and perhaps we've gone too minimal? We'll know the real answer when we pack of course . . .but trying to get a feel for it ahead of time.
We are by no means typical since we are living full time in our Mobile Suites and still working our jobs until retirement (due in 2+ years), however we both are living with almost full wardrobes. I won't even touch on how much Jo has in the way of clothes, but I have about 4 pairs of jeans, 6 or 7 pairs of slacks, 10 to 14 polo style shirts, and of course two coats and a jacket. I am actually looking forward to retirement and travel so I can get rid of about half or more of the above list.
We went to Bed, Bath, and Beyond and bought some of those hangers that let one "nest" hangers together. That means that each hanger is equipped with a hook on which other hangers can be hung. While three items can be hung together without touching the floor of the closet, we generally have my work clothes hanging as shirt and pants together.
Oddly enough, even with all the above mentioned, I've still got two bottom drawers in the bedroom dresser that are no where near full. So, unless our RV is a lot bigger than yours, I'd think you will be safe with what you are planning. However, depending on your clothes washing plans, you might need more clothes. If you depend on laundromats and only wash once a week, you may have to wear some of the same clothes more than one day in the week.
We have a washer and dryer in our coach and Jo washes two evenings during the week and then towels, sheets, and blankets on the weekend.
Terry
Racerguy said
11:03 AM Dec 29, 2011
Basically the clothing we took that just hung in the closet and gathered dust were heavy coats and dressier cloths.I also took way to many jeans and could have got by with 2 or 3 " good" pair and 2 "work" pair.I also found I wore the same 4 or 5 casual t-shirts over and over.Your clothing preferences may vary.
bjoyce said
05:29 PM Dec 29, 2011
I wish our heavy coats, of which we each have one, were always gathering dust. We don't use them often, but are glad we have them. The last time was in early October when we camped in snow off I-80 in Wyoming. I dread trying the suit on I have been carrying for years, it probably doesn't fit.
Neil and Connie said
08:01 PM Dec 29, 2011
Terry and Jo wrote:
I won't even touch on how much Jo has in the way of clothes, but I have about 4 pairs of jeans, 6 or 7 pairs of slacks, 10 to 14 polo style shirts, and of course two coats and a jacket.
hangers that let one "nest" hangers together.
Oddly enough, even with all the above mentioned, I've still got two bottom drawers in the bedroom dresser that are no where near full. So, unless our RV is a lot bigger than yours, I'd think you will be safe with what you are planning.
Cool . . .Connie will be glad she can have more stuff. We're looking at ther DRV 38RSSB3 or the 39 foot New Horizons so storage will be about the same as what you have. The nesting hangers are a good idea as well.
We typically recycle clothes for 2 days anyway; I suspect we'll continue that once we get on the road. We talked about the washer and dryer and both would rather spend a couple of hours once every week or 10 days and get them all done at once.
We'll have the RV parked in the driveway for a month or three while we load out anyway . . .so will be able to adjust on the fly if necessary . . .as I said I was just looking to see if my initial idea was in the right ballpark.
Neil and Connie said
08:03 PM Dec 29, 2011
Racerguy wrote:
Basically the clothing we took that just hung in the closet and gathered dust were heavy coats and dressier cloths.I also took way to many jeans and could have got by with 2 or 3 " good" pair and 2 "work" pair.I also found I wore the same 4 or 5 casual t-shirts over and over.Your clothing preferences may vary.
That's my style too . . .couple pairs of jeans and 3 or 4 T shirts will easily last me a week or more. Connie is a bit more fastidious but even she wears most outfits twice before washing them.
Racerguy said
09:25 PM Dec 29, 2011
Boy did this thread ever wander off topic
Trabuco said
10:11 PM Dec 29, 2011
Kind of moved from mud flaps to jeans!
Alie and Jims Carrilite said
10:32 AM Dec 31, 2011
Commonly known as DERAILED
Jack Mayer said
11:19 AM Dec 31, 2011
Lets derail it a little more....
If you have the space, I HIGHLY recommend a washer and separate dryer. We spent 9 years fulltiming with neither and "liked" being able to do all our wash in 5 washers at one time. UNTIL we got our washer and dryer in this rig. BOY were we dumb.....having the W/D is the best thing we have done for a long time. You can wash whenever - it is simple to throw a load in and get it done. If you have the space you really should consider it.
Delaine and Lindy said
11:25 AM Dec 31, 2011
I agree the W/D is a must and we have the room our W/D sets side by side. We have had a W/D in all but two of our 6 5th wheels.. We have had the Splendide Combo (vented) Splendide Ariston stackable and now have the Whirlpool side by side front loaders... We want own another RV without a W/D, so much more convenient and never have to leave the 5er.... Happy Trails....
Bill and Linda said
11:27 AM Dec 31, 2011
Jack Mayer wrote:
Lets derail it a little more....
If you have the space, I HIGHLY recommend a washer and separate dryer. We spent 9 years fulltiming with neither and "liked" being able to do all our wash in 5 washers at one time. UNTIL we got our washer and dryer in this rig. BOY were we dumb.....having the W/D is the best thing we have done for a long time. You can wash whenever - it is simple to throw a load in and get it done. If you have the space you really should consider it.
Speaking of overloads, Jack – at least sort of – what kind of W/D did you install in the 2010 NH and what kind is going in the 2012.Wonder if you have found the magic combination?I’ve never looked for one, but always thought an LP Gas dryer would be more efficient as to drying time.The 120 volt units have seemed to be a bit slow by all reports.
Not saying the LP Gas use might not be more expensive to operate as you have already paid for the electricity, just maybe more dryer quicker.
As was said, this is so far off topic we might as well discuss W/D –ers.
Bill
Jack Mayer said
02:56 PM Dec 31, 2011
Bill I have Ariston (Splendide) separates in this rig. Front load washer, and 120 volt dryer. The same units are going into the next rig. I have toyed with going with a propane dryer. I have been told they use very little propane. And I believe they would be more efficient. But I stuck to the electric, in the end, because it works fine and I was not prepared to do the research required to move to the propane unit. One big disadvantage of the electric is if you boondock much you are going to have to run the genset much more than with a propane dryer. My advice is to seriously consider propane for the dryer.
As for drying times: my 120 volt electric dries a full load of cotton T shirts/underwear and one pair of jeans in exactly 100 minutes. It likely would be under an hour with a 240 volt dryer or a propane dryer.
Update on the 2012 Chevy 3500HD, ordered the Duraflaps (mud flaps) and mounted them yesterday. The 2012 now is complete, I always run the Duraflaps, which have the Reining Horse stainless steel on the bottom. I had to make some changes to fit the CM Hauler Bed. Will post a pic when the Sun returns. They make a very Professional product and there is no drilling when you mount them on OEM equipment.. I highly recomend DuraFlaps... Happy Trails...
P.S. Delaine had to have a set also for her Tahoe.....
Lindy, How much heavier is the hauler bed than the factory bed? How much does your trailer weigh loaded to travel?
James
I’ve been looking at that bed weight factor as well. The 2012 Chevy’s are good for 30,500lbs GCVWR. (A further Increase from the 2011 model.) I won’t go into all the increased axle capacity numbers except to say the 2012’s will be just fine with a hauler bed, aux tank as Delaine indicated and a 17,500lb 5’er with a lot of weight capacity to spare. (I've done the math on a like kind unit.)
It’s hard to believe, but these 2012’s are actually MDT’s as far as ratings are concerned. Yes, an HDT would be a fine choice, but the numbers are the numbers and they are amazing for a “pickup truck” (which they really aren’t anymore.)
Nice choice for the rig, Delaine.
Bill
Just out of curiosity, what is the GVWR for a GMC 3500 for 2012? I've tried finding that out, but so far I have found it, even in the GMC brochures. If I remember right, the Class 4 trucks (low end of MDT) starts at 14,001 lbs.
Terry
Between 13,400 and 13,000 depending on the configuration of the truck. Yep, technically, according to one of the standards, not an MDT. Under another standard it is. (Under the DOT VIUS survey it’s an MDT.) Anyway that’s a good thing for me that it is not an MDT by one standard. I can get a truck 3500 series DWR truck with what for years were MDT ratings for GCVWR, trailer towing ratings and front and rear axle ratings, which is what matters for most RVers, and here’s the punch line, at lower insurance rates because it is not a 4500 (F-450 if you like) series truck. At least in my case that is true. Nothing wrong if you want an MDT, go for it. We just now have more options within ratings safety limits and that was my point. (As you know almost all of the time the GVWR won’t be the limiting factor for towing. It will be GCVWR and axle / tire ratings.)
GM (and Ford and Dodge) have significantly upped the ratings of their 3500 series trucks which make them much more applicable for RVers who would rather have that, let’s call it the “3500 series style” of truck.
Cool, more options
Bill
Just so we are clear, the Truck in question is a 2011 or 2012 Chevrolet/ GMC Long or Short ? Wheel Base bed, 3500HD Dual rear wheel Crew Cab? Just need clarification, so to get the right TV for our Mobile Suite. Thanks
As a result of the changes, fifth-wheel towing numbers have been raised from the 21,700 pounds to 23,000 pounds for 2012. Likewise, payload capacity has been raised (for the 3500 dual-rear-wheel regular cab 6.0-liter V-8) from 6,635 to 7,215 pounds. And finally, the maximum conventional trailer weight capacity is now 18,000 pounds, up from 17,000 from last year.
I'm not trying to sell anyone on the GM Trucks... I only posted for information only. The GM 2012's are not considered a MDT. I also have owned a true MDT, which was a Freighliner M2, and outstanding Truck. I downsized after researching the GM upgrades on the suspension, larger hauling capacity, larger braking system, exhaust brake, different shocks etc. I just prefer GM Trucks are Trucks the best, I can't answer that, I will say GM is the best for my use.
Only reading about the Fords, F-450 when it first hit the ground, I think was considered a MDT as for as a pickup. But it was still a pickup Truck. It had the 19.5" tires, just a heavier Truck all around, the fuel mileage wasn't what Ford needed. The Ford rear gear on the Job 1 truck was a 4.88 which delivered poor fuel mileage and adding larger, tires heavier Truck the mileage suffered. Now Ford has down graded the F 450, and other changes to increase fuel mileage. Don't know if it has helped fuel mileage, I'm sure it did. But Truck owners know Trucks aren't designed for fuel mileage, they are designed for heavy towing and hauling.
Over all I'm highly satisfied with the 2011's and 2012's, the ride is much better than prior GM 3500's, fuel mileage is better, towing performance is the best of all the 3500HD's I have owned in the past. This past summer we traveled over 6,850 miles and tow over the same passes as did the Freightliner in 2010. The GM 3500HD DRW's performed as well if not better in some areas. HP for one was much better that the FL, maintaining the speed up the passes and down the passes was better. The response is great on the 2011 GM 3500HD.
I also like the fact GM is still using the same Duramax/Allison as it put on line when the Duramax/Allisons hit the ground with. The only changes GM has made is upgrades to the Duramax/Allison. The Duramax/Allison is a proven combo with millions of miles. However in 2013/14 the GM Truck body will be upgraded, I really don't thing there will be but a few changes in the Duramax/Allison and or the suspension. So I will have no problem in upgrading. So its just a choice or what your likes or dislikes are when buying a Truck. I do believe GM has the best drive train and suspension they have ever put on the market. Just for comparison when your at the GM dealership take a look at the Chevy 3500HD and the picture of the frame twist vs the F 350 it will give you a eye opener.
Happy Trails....
What concerns me is that the ratings encourage people to max out and even overload the trucks. And the "race" to have the highest ratings just makes this worse. I would NEVER be comfortable towing a GCW of 30K with the 3500 class vehicles on an everyday basis. Now, granted, I have not towed that load with the new trucks. But I have towed over 31K with an F550 and IMO it is a scarey proposition. Can it be done, yes it can. But in anything but optimal conditions it is not something I would want to routinely do.
These new pickups are VERY capable. But please use good sense when considering what to buy and use. When you get into the 18-20K+ trailers you really need to consider how these tow vehicles will hold up over the long haul, and what happens to a pickup in an emergency maneuver with a trailer that weighs more than twice what the truck weighs. Just food for thought.
I have had many PM's wanting to know why I went back to a GM 3500HD. The answer is I don't have a use for the Freightliner. And based on past experience with the GM 3500 and after owning the 2011 Chevy 3500HD there is no doubt the 2012 3500HD will fill my needs..
I do recommend anyone towing heavy to stay within their ability and research what type Truck you need. For the Mobile Suites there is no reason to have a HDT/MDT. That is based on my experience as a retired Truck driver and owning two Mobile Suites pulled with a Freightliner and a GM 3500 and the current weight on the Suites is 17,500 lbs + or -. My past experience is different than most RVer's.
For those who want or have a need for a HDT/MDT there are many out there. I do believe you can have to much Trailer but never to much Truck. Happy Trails....
I agree with Jack and Delaine but I will add the following which probably better expresses my point.
I shouldn’t have even mentioned the MDT thing. Sorry, my mistake. But if you will notice the GCVWR ratings of the 3500 series truck is now much higher than the former 4500 series (MDT) truck as Delaine outlined well. My point was that the 3500 series trucks have been seriously upgraded. They are not the same truck they were just 2 years ago. The frames, brake size, axle ratings, tire size, transmission, etc. etc. have been significantly upgraded from the former era 3500 / F-350 trucks. The frames, brake size, etc. have no resemblance to their forbearers. Because of this they are rated and well capable of handling many 5ers that here-to-for shouldn’t be pulled with 3500 / F-350 trucks. (The Allison 1,000 transmission has also been upgraded by 30% from the former 26,000lb rating. These are not the same truck as the 2010’s and prior years.)
I’ve driven semis professionally including Class 8 trucks. I have a bit of experience with big trailers and trucks. IMO, if properly equipped and kept within their ratings these 2012 GM 3500's (F-350) are just fine – kept within their ratings – if that is your choice. That was my point. Many of these “pickup trucks” are much more capable / safer now. In fact and in some cases even more capable by ratings than what used to found on some trucks with “bigger numbers” on the side. I.e. 4500 / F-450.
If you were to double tow then the 3500 / F-350 GCVWR would be exceeded and I wouldn’t do it. Therefore, it is not an acceptable choice for that and other reasons. But with the ratings and size of the Mobile Suites trailer in question the 2012 trucks are within all their specs regardless of the “badge” on the side of the truck. (I.e. 4500 / F-450.)
As I said, we have more choices now that are safer with much higher ratings. Marketing or not, ratings are ratings and some of us need an MDT, some an HDT and some just an LDT. It just depends.
Safe travels
Bill
The truck I am referring to and that I believe Delaine has is:
2012 Chevy/GMC 3500HD, DRW, Crew Cab, Long Bed / Duramax / Allison
The 3500HD’s DRW only come in long bed.
(Probably 4 wheel drive, not sure in Delaine’s case if it is a 4x4. If I were to purchase one it would be a 4x4 but this brings on a lot of discussion as well. Me, I’ve used 4x4 a lot even in campgrounds in the states. I've got 4x4 on all my vehicles.)
The pdf spec sheet for the trucks as pertains to the towing capacities, etc.is on the GM website. But the truck as outlined above gives a max 5th wheel rating of 22,400lbs and a combined truck and trailer rating of 30,500 lbs. I am not saying that's good or bad. However, that is what GM gives as the truck's capability. The Ford F-350 is not quite as high, but was also increased for model year 2012 as I recall. Hope this helps
Safe travels
Bill
Thank you Bill for the answer to my question.
One does need to be careful with the choice of a truck, and to be sure and do the necessary research. I suspect that if one goes by the "Tow Rating," one can get overloaded on gross combined weight ratings (GCVW).
For instance, our 2008 F450 has a tow rating of 24,600 lbs and a GCVW of 33,000 lbs. With the truck having a GVWR of 14,500 lbs, if I were to load the coach to its tow rating and the truck to its GVWR, I would definitely be overweight on GCVW. If I was at max on the Mobile Suites at 18,500 lbs and max on the truck at 14,500 lbs, I would be right at the maximum on the F450's GCVW with 33,000 lbs..
I should also mention that while Lindy's 38RSSB is 17,500 lbs, DRV's website gives a max GVWR on that model of 18,500 lbs. I have no doubt that Lindy knows what his unit weighs, but it might be that his unit will be different than everyone elses. Jo and I are living full time in our 38TKSB3 and it is just about at its maximum of 18,500 lbs.
When looking at RV's and their empty weight, it should be noted that those weights will not include any options that one chooses to add, such as inverters, washer/dryer, Level-Up, etc.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Friday 18th of November 2011 07:30:46 AM
Your correct about loading the 5er for full timing..... In 2005 we bought a Cambridge by Keystone, I'm not for sure but I believe the rating for the 2005 Chevy 3500HD's was 23,500 lbs. The combined weight for the 2005 GMC 3500HDs was 24,600 lbs. I then went to the 2006 Chevy Kodiak 4500 up-fitted by Chariot Vans, it was a great truck and had a rating of 26,000 lbs. The combined weight was 27,900 lbs. the Kodiak weigh was 10,900 lbs thats loaded and ready to travel, had a 148 gal of fuel. We were over on the Gross for the 5th wheel. I could never understand why we were so heavy! Well thats until we sold the Cambridge, it took two days or more to empty the 5th wheel. I then learned a valuable lesson, we were hauling stuff that wasn't needed. We now travel very light, the basement in our 38 RSSB 3 has a sliding tray and enough room to remove the front wheels and roll two full size bikes into the basement and we still have plenty of room. And if we go back to full timing we will not add anything. We also have many cabinets which have very little stuff in them. We just this morning was discussing a storage place for stuff we want be hauling around in the 5er if we decided to go full timing again. The key is Stuff you don't use on a regular basic. We never haul around any water. Its amazing what people haul around, take a look at their basements, many are full no space left at all.. We never travel with the pantry full, we wait until we get to destination to stock the pantry. The same for your Truck check the stuff your hauling around, are those things really used??
I haven't got the weight on he 2012 Chevy 3500HD it will be a heavier Truck, due to the hauler bed and the in-bed fuel tank. I will get the weights on our return to home base next April 2012. I really don't believe I will be close at all to the 30,500 lbs. For those pickup the new Mobile Suite get the weight. Our Mobile Suites at all corners... the weight before adding anything was 15,465 leaving 3,035 lbs to reach a total of 18,500. And we added about a ton of weight. That don't include water...... Each time we buy anything weight is aways the question... The GM 3500HDs I have owned in the past all weights were 8,500 lbs + or -. My weight could be up to 12,500 lbs with the 2012 Chevy to get to 30,500 lbs, my Freightliners weight was a little over 14,000 lbs again loaded for travel and the total Freightliner, Mobile Suites, hooked to the Chevy HHR was a little over 34,400 lbs. The weights were all Cat Scale weights. I have read were the F 450 were heavy but I didn't realize they were so heavy??? I can understand the fuel mileage of the early F 450 (Job 1's), and with the 4.88
rear gear. But I can tell you weight will slip up on you... Happy Trails........
-- Edited by Delaine and Lindy on Friday 18th of November 2011 10:58:05 AM
BTW, we have all been referring to max trailer weight and Gross Combined weights, but we must also look at the front and rear axle ratings of these trucks in making our selection. (The axle ratings will never exceed the factory delivered tire ratings so no worries there at least with the OEM tires weight rating wise.)
For a 2012 – Chevy 3500HD DRW / 4WD / Crew Cab / Diesel the axle ratings have been increased: 5,600lbs for the front axle and 9,375lbs for the rear axle / springs. The specifications then list a total payload of 5,133lbs. I.e. what you can put in / on the truck which would naturally include the pin weight of the trailer, tools, aux fuel tanks, etc. The total allowable weight of the truck itself, in the configuration listed above, is 13,000lbs.
The trouble with all this is that all these numbers can be confusing until you do a bit of research and understand them fully like Jack and many others on this forum do. But all this can get pretty confusing and I will say that many dealers, GM, Chevy, Ford or Dodge, etc. that sell these trucks don’t fully understand the tow ratings themselves or how to figure them – at least the average sales person doesn’t. So just a word to the wise to self-educate yourself before purchasing so you know you’re getting what you need for your particular application. I would also be cautious of any “on-line” weight calculators until you fully understand all the numbers and also assure yourself that the on-line calculators have the correct numbers for the model year truck in question along with its specific configuration. I.e. 4WD / Crew Cab, etc. The math is really easy. Understanding what numbers go where, what they mean and how they add up, or don’t add in some case, that’s the hard part.
Safe travels
Bill
What would you define as "the right amount? of clothes? Obviously everyboy is different . . .and Connie and I have no idea how much to take so would likely take too much and then toss it in 6 months . . .much better to get it "right" the first time. I was thinking 2 pairs of jeans and 2 dockers for me, a half dozen T shirts, half dozen assorted gold/rugby/dress shirts. A pair of dress pants and a blazer with perhaps a suit in deep storage under the bed. Connie was thinking (she's a woman so naturally wants more) 6 pants, dozen tops, 2-3 nice outfits, 2 dresses. Couple of pairs of shorts each as well along with unmentionables.
Is that a reasonable number . . .or is space not quite as tight as I'm thinking and perhaps we've gone too minimal? We'll know the real answer when we pack of course . . .but trying to get a feel for it ahead of time.
We are by no means typical since we are living full time in our Mobile Suites and still working our jobs until retirement (due in 2+ years), however we both are living with almost full wardrobes. I won't even touch on how much Jo has in the way of clothes, but I have about 4 pairs of jeans, 6 or 7 pairs of slacks, 10 to 14 polo style shirts, and of course two coats and a jacket. I am actually looking forward to retirement and travel so I can get rid of about half or more of the above list.
We went to Bed, Bath, and Beyond and bought some of those hangers that let one "nest" hangers together. That means that each hanger is equipped with a hook on which other hangers can be hung. While three items can be hung together without touching the floor of the closet, we generally have my work clothes hanging as shirt and pants together.
Oddly enough, even with all the above mentioned, I've still got two bottom drawers in the bedroom dresser that are no where near full. So, unless our RV is a lot bigger than yours, I'd think you will be safe with what you are planning. However, depending on your clothes washing plans, you might need more clothes. If you depend on laundromats and only wash once a week, you may have to wear some of the same clothes more than one day in the week.
We have a washer and dryer in our coach and Jo washes two evenings during the week and then towels, sheets, and blankets on the weekend.
Terry
Cool . . .Connie will be glad she can have more stuff. We're looking at ther DRV 38RSSB3 or the 39 foot New Horizons so storage will be about the same as what you have. The nesting hangers are a good idea as well.
We typically recycle clothes for 2 days anyway; I suspect we'll continue that once we get on the road. We talked about the washer and dryer and both would rather spend a couple of hours once every week or 10 days and get them all done at once.
We'll have the RV parked in the driveway for a month or three while we load out anyway . . .so will be able to adjust on the fly if necessary . . .as I said I was just looking to see if my initial idea was in the right ballpark.
That's my style too . . .couple pairs of jeans and 3 or 4 T shirts will easily last me a week or more. Connie is a bit more fastidious but even she wears most outfits twice before washing them.
Boy did this thread ever wander off topic
Commonly known as DERAILED
If you have the space, I HIGHLY recommend a washer and separate dryer. We spent 9 years fulltiming with neither and "liked" being able to do all our wash in 5 washers at one time. UNTIL we got our washer and dryer in this rig. BOY were we dumb.....having the W/D is the best thing we have done for a long time. You can wash whenever - it is simple to throw a load in and get it done. If you have the space you really should consider it.
Speaking of overloads, Jack – at least sort of – what kind of W/D did you install in the 2010 NH and what kind is going in the 2012. Wonder if you have found the magic combination? I’ve never looked for one, but always thought an LP Gas dryer would be more efficient as to drying time. The 120 volt units have seemed to be a bit slow by all reports.
Not saying the LP Gas use might not be more expensive to operate as you have already paid for the electricity, just maybe more dryer quicker.
As was said, this is so far off topic we might as well discuss W/D –ers.
Bill
As for drying times: my 120 volt electric dries a full load of cotton T shirts/underwear and one pair of jeans in exactly 100 minutes. It likely would be under an hour with a 240 volt dryer or a propane dryer.