I know there is a forum for toads, but not many people read that forum and not many people comment on it - it's like the "secret subject".
Quickly - we plan on gong F/T in a Class A for about a period of 2 years and then 6-7 months a year thereafter. We plan on staying in RV parks for at least 2 weeks and longer at times. We plan on only drive about 4 hours from place to place - we are not long haul drivers - we want to see the country not see how fast we can get around it. We have a 2007 Mini Cooper which is NOT towable on all 4's.
We are thinking of having my wife drive the Mini and me the RV. Yes extra cost in gas but the Mini gets over 30MPG. When you add in the cost of a dolly, a base plate, a hitch, and (????), along with the PITA of what to do with the dolly at the RV park, driving seperately for 4 hours may be a good alternative. We would rather not trade in the Mini for something that can be towed 4 on the ground.
Looking for comments, suggestions, ideas.
NorCal Dan said
11:11 PM Jun 9, 2011
If your Mini is towable on a dolly all you need is the dolly and a hitch on the class A. With a dolly there are no modifications needed to the toad.
53 Merc said
11:58 PM Jun 9, 2011
Having watched people struggle to manually move the dolly, search for a way to store and secure it, it would take bodily harm threats to make me use a dolly. You do miss the interchange of having a co pilot sitting beside you, but I am not sure the trade-off is worth the dolly hassle. Howard and Linda went to a separate drive about as soon as they went full-time. JMO
-- Edited by 53 Merc on Friday 10th of June 2011 12:00:20 AM
Readytogo said
04:59 AM Jun 10, 2011
I would start out driving the Mini Cooper. If you don't like it then get the dolly.
Cindy T said
05:16 AM Jun 10, 2011
If it were me, I'd opt for driving the car. When we hit the road, I am going to drive my own vehicle & my husband will drive the truck/5er. There are many pros & cons to driving/not driving but you should do what works best for you. As someone else said, if you start driving the car & don't like that arrangement, you can change it.
Cindy T
Kathy Doin It said
05:26 AM Jun 10, 2011
We do not move all that often. We had a Honda Shadow Aero 1100 that would sit on the back of the tow vehicle and when we parked somewhere, we would use that or we would use the toter. That.got.old.quick. 8 months into FT'ing, we wound up trading the bike in on a small car, which I drove while the DH toted the home around.
Fast forward 6 years later...we have the same tow vehicle, but also have a pick-up truck that tows a small cargo trailer. The cargo trailer is called the Wing's Nest in honor of it's occupant, our Gold Wing. We couldn't get away from having a motorcycle!
As stated above, we do not move often. It is so worth having the truck, as well as the bike as an alternative. The only down side is finding room in a campground for all of our vehicles. That can be a challenge.
Kathy
Terry and Jo said
08:10 AM Jun 10, 2011
Richard,
Our situation is different in that we will have a truck and fifth wheel. But, we will have the Mercury Mariner as our second vehicle. While our "setup" would allow us to pull the Mariner, it is unlikely that we will do so.
With Jo driving the Mariner and us having some kind of 2-way communication (either cell phones or walkie-talkies) we can travel together and if needed, I could have her "scout out" a route into a fuel stop, rest area, shopping center, etc. by driving into the area herself. Also, if we had room to park the truck and coach, I could get in with her and help "scout out" the area as well.
The biggest issue that I could see with your setup is that I have heard that the Coopers are pretty proprietary on lubricants and other things. In many rural areas, it might be difficult to find what you would need because of that. That you might want to research for availability.
Terry
igotjam said
08:11 AM Jun 10, 2011
We have a truck, 5er and car. The first year we did the truck hauling 5er (no car). The last 3 years one drove the truck & 5er, one drove the car. We go 200 miles/day but average 20,000/yr. Driving 2 vehicles works for us. As others suggested try driving both and see what suits you.
RVRon said
08:26 AM Jun 10, 2011
A couple of years ago we were staying at Oscar Shearer State Park in FL and the couple next to us were flat towing their Mini, so it can definitely be done. A quick Google search showed that lots of folks are flat towing the manual transmission model with no problems at all BUT... (there's always a BUT!) if you had any kind of driveline problem and it was discovered that you are flat towing against manufacturer's advice then it could void your warranty. Not sure how long a warranty is in effect on a Mini but I'd think that at 4 years old you're pretty much at the end of it anyway. Remco is considered the best in the flat towing business and here's what they had to say: http://www.remcotowing.com/vehicles
Automatic transmission models are evidently only towable on a tow dolly or trailer.
Assuming yours is a manual transmission model that can be towed it's a tossup whether to tow or drive from an economic standpoint. A tow bar, base plate and braking system will run in the neighborhood of $2,000.00 or more. If you instead drive it behind the motorhome for about 5,000 miles a year for 2 years at 30 mpg you'll spend about $1,400.00 in gas assuming $4.00 per gallon. The only downside being that you won't have a co-pilot in the seat next to you.
RVPAINTER said
09:20 AM Jun 10, 2011
Thanks Terry - Mini has the synthetic oil and goes 10,000 miles between services. I will however research your suggestion Mini specifies that a Mini Cooper cannot be towed on all 4's and in doing so the warranty is gone. I checked with Remco and they consider a std shift mini towable - realizing the transmission can be fried and once the plate is attached the warranty is also void as Mini does not allow any alteration to the vehicle. Many online stories of no problems towing a std shift and also many stories of fried transmissions. The warranty is 50,000 miles we only have 22,000 so a ways to go yet. Actually an automatic CAN be towed on all 4's as Remco makes a pump to lubricate the transmission while towing. Again tho a modification and warranty is gone. I think we will try the 2 drivers as we won't be travelling long distances and if we don't like it - we'll get a used car/truck that can be towed. Thanks all for the info - this has been a big help.
bjoyce said
10:45 AM Jun 10, 2011
RVPAINTER wrote:
once the plate is attached the warranty is also void as Mini does not allow any alteration to the vehicle.
Mini cannot enforce the "any alteration of the vehicle" clause since that is allowed by law. They can use it as evidence you were being towed and that voids the warranty. Subtle difference, but true. In your case it doesn't matter, but there are many alterations that Mini cannot stop you from making.
Dollies only work for front-wheel drive vehicles, but I think a Mini is front-wheel drive. Just make sure the dolly and straps are properly sized for the Mini, a friend had major issues with a diesel VW Beetle with a used tow dolly.
RVPAINTER said
11:05 AM Jun 10, 2011
Mini's are front wheel drive Bill. The whole dolly thing bothers me in that finding a place to keep it and securing it at RV parks from what I've read can be a problem - also chances are one will find themselves in a position more than once that they need to "backup" - not with a dolly!! So for now 2 drivers seems best. I questioned Mini Hq's on the void of the warranty if I installed a transmission lubricating pump (they did not know I had a std shift) and they said ANY alteration to the Mini components would result in a void of the warranty. Perhaps a threat but I won't test it. Thanks for the feedback. I'd love to buy a Jeep a few years from now - time will tell.
Over55 said
02:39 PM Jun 18, 2011
My wife and I are getting ready to go full-time shortly after labor day weekend. We crunched some numbers and you don't have to travel much to see that you could pay for a small car fairly quickly. We will have a Ford F350 to tow our 5th wheel and my wife will drive in front of the caravan with her little Scion X/D (30+mpg). We plan on moving no more than 200 miles a day....then stay at parks for at least a week at a time. During that week we plan on sight-seeing, shopping, hitting the local towns and coffee houses.....so having a little car works perfect for us.
We've already gotten a set of walkie-talkies and did a test run and it works great. Hopefully we will only put 6-to-8,000 miles a year on our truck.
We'll check back after about a year and comment with a bunch of experience under our belts. However....it looks like you got some good info here.
RVPAINTER said
03:06 PM Jun 18, 2011
Over55 - I agree with you - ya can't beat the milage we get with the Mini Cooper and we plan on having Motarola walkie-talkies with about 60 mile range on a good clear day! Trying to figure out what to do with a dolly can be a big issue. We also plan on driving no more than 200 miles between stops. We hope to stay at an RV park for 2-3 weeks and drive all around in our Cooper and see the area.
steved44 said
10:17 PM Jun 18, 2011
Well, we have been towing a Chevy Trailblazer 4x4 behind our allegro bus for three years now and it works great. I wouldn't want to be in separate vehicles because I do depend on my navigator a lot, plus I like having her with me. I've only been "caught" twice in three years getting into a situation that I had to unhook the car to get out of, so that's not too much of a deal with us. I can unhook in about 3 minutes if I have to so it's no big deal. I just changed to a Dodge Dakota crew cab 4x4. because I carry an inflatable boat and outboard motor with me and that wouldn't all fit in the trailblazer. I agree that the "set up" is expensive. I just finished rigging out the Dodge and with the base plate, M&G braking system, and the lights it was around $1300. We tend to do a lot of desert exploring, and the 4x4 has proved to be an asset more than once. Some of the tow dollys are lighter and easier to manuver around than others, but I still prefer the 4 wheels down setup. JMHO Steve
Steve C said
12:52 AM Jun 19, 2011
Question. Do most state parks and campgrounds that have daily or annual entry fees charge for both vehicles?
We are planning on another 5th wheel and F350/F450 or GMC 3500HD this time out. And we plan to go full-time this time. We drove our last tow vehicle 11,000 miles in 3 months as it was our only vehicle. Although I prefer that my wife be in the tow vehicle with me, it seems to make sense for her to drive her Escape. We plan on having another kayak (non-inflatable this time) and would haul it on top of the Escape.
When we were seriously thinking about a motorhome we were told that her automatic transmission Escape could be towed with all four wheels on the ground. Were we told wrong or right?
Steve
bjoyce said
09:19 AM Jun 19, 2011
Steve C wrote:
Question. Do most state parks and campgrounds that have daily or annual entry fees charge for both vehicles?
We are planning on another 5th wheel and F350/F450 or GMC 3500HD this time out. And we plan to go full-time this time. We drove our last tow vehicle 11,000 miles in 3 months as it was our only vehicle. Although I prefer that my wife be in the tow vehicle with me, it seems to make sense for her to drive her Escape. We plan on having another kayak (non-inflatable this time) and would haul it on top of the Escape.
When we were seriously thinking about a motorhome we were told that her automatic transmission Escape could be towed with all four wheels on the ground. Were we told wrong or right?
Steve
In some states they charge for each vehicle with a motor at state parks, at others they don't.
Most Escapes can be towed, go to http://www.motorhomemagazine.com and select the Dinghy Towing Guide for the model year to find out.
-- Edited by bjoyce on Sunday 19th of June 2011 09:20:59 AM
-- Edited by bjoyce on Sunday 19th of June 2011 01:20:07 PM
NorCal Dan said
03:48 PM Jun 19, 2011
I can't imagine traveling across the country and not being able to share that experience with my DW. I've gone coast to coast and back with a dolly and found that it stores neatly under the rear of the MH when parked. Never had to backup with the dolly. It takes a few minutes more to hook/unhook the dolly versus 4 down so that isn't a big deal. The only other thing is that I always stop after a few miles to tighten the straps on the dolly. Towing 4 down is by far the easiest, but I found the dolly was do-able. Having the DW as my navigator and companion to share the miles is well worth any setup costs. JMHO.
Bill Adams said
04:46 PM Jun 19, 2011
I wanted to remain silent, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that if the only way I could travel was to have Janet follow me in another vehicle I would have parked this coach long ago. I love sharing all things with Janet and it just is not going to play out the same with the 2 of us in separate vehicles (even if equipped with 2-way headphones). For those that do this and find it to be an acceptable or necessary solution, I congratulate you. Janet and I have had only one vehicle available at our final location ever since 2000. There are maybe 2-3 times per year where it would have been nice to have a separate vehicle (Christmas and anniversary shopping come to mind) but the other 360+ days per year, one vehicle has served us very well.
Terry and Jo said
05:13 PM Jun 19, 2011
Well, not that everyone has to money to do so, but there is another option that you can see in the link below. It is a converted bus towing a three-axle trailer, within which is a full-sized Cadillac Escalade, which in this picture is parked in front of the bus.
Seen at Eleven Mile State Park (west of Colorado Springs) in 2008.
Now, since I've been having issues with Internet Explorer version 9, I hope it works where you can see it. If not, I may post it into my blog somewhere. Or, you can go to my Photobucket link below and go to "Miscellaneous Images" to see it.
Terry
Ckerr said
08:27 AM Jun 20, 2011
Funny. We are finding ourselves having this conversation again. We currently have a 5th wheel toyhauler and truck. That has allowed us to take the motorcycle and effectively have 2 vehicles when needed. Reality is that we rarely use them separately. We've been planning to switch to a diesel pusher so we can put the motorcycle on the back and tow my Avalanche which is paid for and we love (the truck isn't quite paid off.)
Fast forward and Johnny has had a couple of surgeries -- one to fuse his right ankle, another to replace his left knee for the 2nd time and a 3rd to fix a broken shin bone which broke above the ankle fusion rod. He was finally feeling up to riding again and went to load the motorcycle in the trailer. It fell over on him and put a big gash in his leg (yes, the most recent surgery one.) Now he's thinking we might best switch to a trike.
Unfortunately, one cannot put a trike on the back of a motorhome safely so we've been talking about whether it's an option to drive 2 vehicles or not. We keep coming back to a "no" for a number of reasons. The primary one being that we just enjoy having the other one right there to share the experience. But a strong 2nd these days is that Johnny just often doesn't feel like driving. If we had 2 vehicles to move that would definitely make this a more stressful than enjoyable experience and we just want to minimize that as much as possible.
RVPAINTER said
10:58 AM Jun 20, 2011
All good reasons not to drive in 2 vechicles. Once we get out there we will try it as our driving will be very minimal as we plan to stay in places for a goodly time and then only move a couple of hundred miles - maybe 3-4 hours driving and then into another place for 3-4 weeks. If it becomes a problem, we'll trade in the Mini and get something to tow on all 4's.
I know there is a forum for toads, but not many people read that forum and not many people comment on it - it's like the "secret subject".
Quickly - we plan on gong F/T in a Class A for about a period of 2 years and then 6-7 months a year thereafter. We plan on staying in RV parks for at least 2 weeks and longer at times. We plan on only drive about 4 hours from place to place - we are not long haul drivers - we want to see the country not see how fast we can get around it. We have a 2007 Mini Cooper which is NOT towable on all 4's.
We are thinking of having my wife drive the Mini and me the RV. Yes extra cost in gas but the Mini gets over 30MPG. When you add in the cost of a dolly, a base plate, a hitch, and (????), along with the PITA of what to do with the dolly at the RV park, driving seperately for 4 hours may be a good alternative. We would rather not trade in the Mini for something that can be towed 4 on the ground.
Looking for comments, suggestions, ideas.
Having watched people struggle to manually move the dolly, search for a way to store and secure it, it would take bodily harm threats to make me use a dolly. You do miss the interchange of having a co pilot sitting beside you, but I am not sure the trade-off is worth the dolly hassle. Howard and Linda went to a separate drive about as soon as they went full-time. JMO
-- Edited by 53 Merc on Friday 10th of June 2011 12:00:20 AM
I would start out driving the Mini Cooper. If you don't like it then get the dolly.
If it were me, I'd opt for driving the car. When we hit the road, I am going to drive my own vehicle & my husband will drive the truck/5er. There are many pros & cons to driving/not driving but you should do what works best for you. As someone else said, if you start driving the car & don't like that arrangement, you can change it.
Cindy T
We do not move all that often. We had a Honda Shadow Aero 1100 that would sit on the back of the tow vehicle and when we parked somewhere, we would use that or we would use the toter. That.got.old.quick. 8 months into FT'ing, we wound up trading the bike in on a small car, which I drove while the DH toted the home around.
Fast forward 6 years later...we have the same tow vehicle, but also have a pick-up truck that tows a small cargo trailer. The cargo trailer is called the Wing's Nest in honor of it's occupant, our Gold Wing. We couldn't get away from having a motorcycle!
As stated above, we do not move often. It is so worth having the truck, as well as the bike as an alternative. The only down side is finding room in a campground for all of our vehicles. That can be a challenge.
Kathy
Richard,
Our situation is different in that we will have a truck and fifth wheel. But, we will have the Mercury Mariner as our second vehicle. While our "setup" would allow us to pull the Mariner, it is unlikely that we will do so.
With Jo driving the Mariner and us having some kind of 2-way communication (either cell phones or walkie-talkies) we can travel together and if needed, I could have her "scout out" a route into a fuel stop, rest area, shopping center, etc. by driving into the area herself. Also, if we had room to park the truck and coach, I could get in with her and help "scout out" the area as well.
The biggest issue that I could see with your setup is that I have heard that the Coopers are pretty proprietary on lubricants and other things. In many rural areas, it might be difficult to find what you would need because of that. That you might want to research for availability.
Terry
A couple of years ago we were staying at Oscar Shearer State Park in FL and the couple next to us were flat towing their Mini, so it can definitely be done. A quick Google search showed that lots of folks are flat towing the manual transmission model with no problems at all BUT... (there's always a BUT!) if you had any kind of driveline problem and it was discovered that you are flat towing against manufacturer's advice then it could void your warranty. Not sure how long a warranty is in effect on a Mini but I'd think that at 4 years old you're pretty much at the end of it anyway. Remco is considered the best in the flat towing business and here's what they had to say: http://www.remcotowing.com/vehicles
Automatic transmission models are evidently only towable on a tow dolly or trailer.
Assuming yours is a manual transmission model that can be towed it's a tossup whether to tow or drive from an economic standpoint. A tow bar, base plate and braking system will run in the neighborhood of $2,000.00 or more. If you instead drive it behind the motorhome for about 5,000 miles a year for 2 years at 30 mpg you'll spend about $1,400.00 in gas assuming $4.00 per gallon. The only downside being that you won't have a co-pilot in the seat next to you.
Mini cannot enforce the "any alteration of the vehicle" clause since that is allowed by law. They can use it as evidence you were being towed and that voids the warranty. Subtle difference, but true. In your case it doesn't matter, but there are many alterations that Mini cannot stop you from making.
Dollies only work for front-wheel drive vehicles, but I think a Mini is front-wheel drive. Just make sure the dolly and straps are properly sized for the Mini, a friend had major issues with a diesel VW Beetle with a used tow dolly.
My wife and I are getting ready to go full-time shortly after labor day weekend. We crunched some numbers and you don't have to travel much to see that you could pay for a small car fairly quickly. We will have a Ford F350 to tow our 5th wheel and my wife will drive in front of the caravan with her little Scion X/D (30+mpg). We plan on moving no more than 200 miles a day....then stay at parks for at least a week at a time. During that week we plan on sight-seeing, shopping, hitting the local towns and coffee houses.....so having a little car works perfect for us.
We've already gotten a set of walkie-talkies and did a test run and it works great. Hopefully we will only put 6-to-8,000 miles a year on our truck.
We'll check back after about a year and comment with a bunch of experience under our belts. However....it looks like you got some good info here.
Question. Do most state parks and campgrounds that have daily or annual entry fees charge for both vehicles?
We are planning on another 5th wheel and F350/F450 or GMC 3500HD this time out. And we plan to go full-time this time. We drove our last tow vehicle 11,000 miles in 3 months as it was our only vehicle. Although I prefer that my wife be in the tow vehicle with me, it seems to make sense for her to drive her Escape. We plan on having another kayak (non-inflatable this time) and would haul it on top of the Escape.
When we were seriously thinking about a motorhome we were told that her automatic transmission Escape could be towed with all four wheels on the ground. Were we told wrong or right?
Steve
In some states they charge for each vehicle with a motor at state parks, at others they don't.
Most Escapes can be towed, go to http://www.motorhomemagazine.com and select the Dinghy Towing Guide for the model year to find out.
-- Edited by bjoyce on Sunday 19th of June 2011 09:20:59 AM
-- Edited by bjoyce on Sunday 19th of June 2011 01:20:07 PM
Well, not that everyone has to money to do so, but there is another option that you can see in the link below. It is a converted bus towing a three-axle trailer, within which is a full-sized Cadillac Escalade, which in this picture is parked in front of the bus.
Seen at Eleven Mile State Park (west of Colorado Springs) in 2008.
https://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z458/TerryandJo/Miscellaneous%20Images/DSC_1130.jpg
Now, since I've been having issues with Internet Explorer version 9, I hope it works where you can see it. If not, I may post it into my blog somewhere. Or, you can go to my Photobucket link below and go to "Miscellaneous Images" to see it.
Terry
Fast forward and Johnny has had a couple of surgeries -- one to fuse his right ankle, another to replace his left knee for the 2nd time and a 3rd to fix a broken shin bone which broke above the ankle fusion rod. He was finally feeling up to riding again and went to load the motorcycle in the trailer. It fell over on him and put a big gash in his leg (yes, the most recent surgery one.) Now he's thinking we might best switch to a trike.
Unfortunately, one cannot put a trike on the back of a motorhome safely so we've been talking about whether it's an option to drive 2 vehicles or not. We keep coming back to a "no" for a number of reasons. The primary one being that we just enjoy having the other one right there to share the experience. But a strong 2nd these days is that Johnny just often doesn't feel like driving. If we had 2 vehicles to move that would definitely make this a more stressful than enjoyable experience and we just want to minimize that as much as possible.
You are looking at this ALL WRONG...LOLOL!
http://towmini.com/index.html