best solution to alway available internet on the road?
Frosty said
09:24 AM Apr 30, 2011
A question for all you full timers out there that have the need to be "online" five days a week due to work requirements. In my case, my day job is related to remote software support for our customers so this is a big issue.
I've have read about all the connectivity options in depth, costs, pros and cons of each over the last few weeks. We are both also pretty tech savvy on our end.
It seems that the lure of "always on" with SAT is slowly being replaced with the increasing coverage of wifi and cell modems over the last few years. In our case, we would opt for the most powerful repeaters/extenders for each of these methods without question if we did not choose sat.
I dont have a problem with the cost of SAT (5K+). It's a business expense really. What concerns me greatly is all the reports of configuration hassles, limited speeds, etc. Who wants to deal with ongoing hassles when you are paying that much?
Having not had the luxury of being on the road for a few years and knowing what is truly practical out there, do you think sat is worth it (assuming as in my case you can not afford to be without net access during normal business hours...). Can you truly get by without sat these days assuming you are not staying in truly remote places?
Appreciate input from those of you that use multiple options to connect on the road.
Thanks to all who helo make this a great forum.
Frosty
Luvglass said
11:13 AM Apr 30, 2011
The answer has to do with where you will be traveling, and if you are willing to only go where you can have coverage, or if you insist on visiting where you want. If you are going to we wandering all over the country, you will need both satellite and cell phone capability, because there are places that one or the other will not be available.
Right now we are in southern Utah at Kodachrome Basin State Park and there is no cell service for 15 miles and we are going to be here for 2 months. There have been other times that we were in a park where we had to be under trees and the roof mounted satellite just couldn't see the target. However in both situations, we could have chosen to go somewhere else where coverage was available.
Your call.
Bill Adams said
01:28 PM Apr 30, 2011
Cellular coverage is good and getting better. Coverage is still not everywhere but on the East Coast coverage is very good while the West Coast (due to the reduced population) has much larger areas with little or no coverage. Do not plan on relying on wi-fi in any form anywhere. It's just too spotty to be considered dependable. Your best possibilities for good wi-fi will be taking your computer to the local McDonald's or Starbuck's. Some park will have excellent wi-fi. Many will have some acceptable level of wi-fi but this may or may not be available where your coach is parked. If you are a business user you are going to want to ensure that you "bring your own service" where ever your travel plans might take you. I am one of the largest providers of the MotoSAT Datastorm satellite internet system and I can tell you that satellite works, works well and works everywhere (as long as you don't park under a tree). A properly setup Datastorm will not give you and service issues on a regular basis but you may have to do a software update from time to time. This takes about 30 seconds so that's not really an issue either. I do recommend that you have someone with a great deal of Datastorm experience install your system just in case you do run into any kind of bug, this installer will be able to walk you through the issues in short order. The most common issue really has nothing to do with the Datastorm but rather how Hughesnet handles their customers. They make changes to the service based upon their home users requirements and these sometimes temporarily effect the mobile user. A qualified installer will be able to help you address these issues should they pop up. We have had a Datastorm on our coach since Feb. 2002 and the service has been available in excess of 99.9% of the time that we have needed it as we traveled from Coast to Coast. Cellular is by far the least expensive option but you need to determine what you buy based upon what you need. Need is the critical factor for business users.
RandDWT said
07:35 PM Apr 30, 2011
Bill, what is the cost of the DAT system?
Bill Adams said
06:10 AM May 1, 2011
The Datastorm costs $5495 installed and $80/month with an 18 month contract. Used units also come up from time to time which could be installed for about 1/2 that price depending upon age and hardware.
3Gstore_Matt said
05:32 PM May 2, 2011
Knowing you'll only be using data service 5 days a week you'd probably be better off going with 3G/4G wireless. Are you going to be mainly on the East/West coast or do you plan to travel everywhere? You can take a look at our coverage maps here, which will show you all the providers and coverage in specific locations - http://3gstore.com/coverage
Satellites main advantage is going to be it will work anywhere you have a clear view of the southern sky. The downsides will be the cost and high latency (time to communicate with server). I can't comment on monthly usage but I know Hughesnet and WildBlue's FAP (Fair Access Policy) is pretty low too.
Bill Adams said
05:50 AM May 3, 2011
Matt, The Hughesnet FAP is lower than what? You will NEVER be charged an overage fee if you exceed your limit with Hughesnet and while the 3G/4G limit is only 5GB of usage (including uploads and downloads) the cheapest Hughes net plan allows 6GB/month of downloads (uploads are free from FAP) plus an unlimited amount of data can be download from 2am - 6am Eastern Time. The way the FAP is handled is different in that you have a daily usage limit but even if you exceed this you do not get charged extra but rather the service is slowed down for about 24 hours. While the FAP is different, it's certainly lower than cellular. The VAR service plans like the one I have through MotoSAT allows nearly 12GB/month (uploads still FAP free) plus the unlimited early morning downloads.
3Gstore_Matt said
05:06 PM May 4, 2011
Bill Adams wrote:
Matt, The Hughesnet FAP is lower than what? You will NEVER be charged an overage fee if you exceed your limit with Hughesnet and while the 3G/4G limit is only 5GB of usage (including uploads and downloads) the cheapest Hughes net plan allows 6GB/month of downloads (uploads are free from FAP) plus an unlimited amount of data can be download from 2am - 6am Eastern Time. The way the FAP is handled is different in that you have a daily usage limit but even if you exceed this you do not get charged extra but rather the service is slowed down for about 24 hours. While the FAP is different, it's certainly lower than cellular. The VAR service plans like the one I have through MotoSAT allows nearly 12GB/month (uploads still FAP free) plus the unlimited early morning downloads.
Although the monthly consumption is higher with Satellite I was referring to the daily limiations Hughesnet has. This is according to their site (old threshold/new threshold):
Home
175 MB
200 MB
Pro
350 MB
375 MB
ProPlus
400 MB
425 MB
Small Office
500 MB
500 MB
Business Internet
1250 MB
1250 MB
With a 3G/4G card assuming you've got a 5GB cap that works out to 170MB/day and 341MB/day with a 10GB plan. The big difference is with 3G/4G you can use as much as you'd like any given day. If you've got a big service pack update you can use your connection at full speed for the entire download.
With Hughesnet you may get a small portion of the download at full speed then your throttled back to near dial up speeds. What good is that when you want to download something big?
Also, with new plans the $10 per GB overage on 3G/4G cards they're much more competetive. Hughesnet power 200 plan is $89.99/mo for 2Mbps/300Kbps with a 400MB/day FAP. For comparisons sake Verizon's 10GB plan is $80/mo giving you 341MB/day and 3G speeds typical 600-1.4Mbps/400-700 and on 4G 5-12Mbps down and 2-5Mbps up.
Sure, with Satellite you get a FAP free period you can download your hearts content, but it's in the middle of the night. It would be sweet if the wireless carriers adapted this system but I'm sure most would prefer a daytime download uninterupted than having to stay up all night just to download something at full speed.
-- Edited by 3Gstore_Matt on Wednesday 4th of May 2011 05:06:51 PM
Bill Adams said
05:29 PM May 4, 2011
Don't confuse any of the new Hughesnet plans for the 9000 modems with any of the plans available for the 7000S modems. The 9000 modems are NOT mobile compatible so only the plans available for the 7000S modem would apply to RVers. You can skew the information to either side depending upon the way the information is presented but the reality is that both satellite internet and cellular internet provide excellent service to their users. Some like the higher daily limits (cellular) and some like the higher monthly limits (satellite). Some like the having service absolutely everywhere they park including US, Canada and Mexico and some like the cellular limitations. Some don't mind being charged more if they surpass their limit (cellular) and some don't mind getting slowed down if they screw up (satellite). It's all about choices. There is no one right answer, there are only answers that work for you. You just have to ask the right questions.
3Gstore_Matt said
04:05 PM May 5, 2011
Bill,
I'm not trying to skew the information in either direction, I just took the info direct from Hughesnets site. I'm sure there are other providers that offer different tiers and FAP's too. I do think that cellular is most economical and provides the best bang for your buck vs a Satellite system, but as you've said it is all in what you need. If your an extreme off the beaten path hardcore RV person going into the middle of nowhere where cell service doesn't exist Satellite is basically the only option. If you don't fall into that category chances are you'll be much happier with a 3G/4G card than Satellite.
Bill Adams said
04:11 PM May 5, 2011
Looking at the Hughesnet site will cause you to post inaccurate information. If you travel only on the East Coast you will likely find acceptable internet service with cellular in most places (but not all) that you park. You may have to drive "up the hill" to get reception in some areas, but it should at least be nearby. If you travel the Western US it is unlikely that you will get the same results unless you stick close to the cities. I am not saying that cellular is bad (I have a Verizon air card). However, posting information about satellite having lower FAP levels is incorrect (or at least misleading). Cellular is MUCH cheaper if it works for you. Satellite is MUCH better is you NEED internet where ever you go.
djpotts55 said
01:01 PM May 25, 2011
We have had great coverage using Sprint cellular and WiFi combination. Sprint gives unlimited everything plans including free roaming (on all other networks) for both calls and data for aboout $100 (give or take more) per month. This is a family plan that includes two mobile phones (so both DW and I have a phone) and both can use our laptops at the same time with no monthly or daily data limits. I would go the extra step to mount a Wilson Trucker's Antenna on the roof and a Wilson Mobile Wireless Amplifier Kit so you can get a strong signal in most areas, including out west.
I've tested that particular Mobile Wilson wireless amp and was not impressed with it.
I'd be interested in any data you have on it that shows how well it works in your setup, and how far you can move from the interior antenna and the gain involved.
In my testing, there was virtually zero gain beyond 4' with the supplied interior antenna. I did acheive better results with a trucker antenna inside, but even that was marginal beyond 7'. To be fair, this device IS intended to be used inside a car, where the shorter distances would not be an issue. I would never recommend it for whole-RV coverage, but it would suffice for close-in coverage.
I much prefer a dedicated wired amp for the cellular data. It performs far better under every circumstance.
For a wireless amp, I have tested the Small and Large RV packages sold by Maximumsignal. These work about as well as a wireless amp can. I got good gain throughout the RV. However, I still believe it is best to have a dedicated wired amp for the aircard.
Ckerr said
10:45 AM May 26, 2011
Hi Jack,
We too need to maintain our internet connection. Right now we have a Wilson set up... Trucker antenna connected to SOHO Wireless amp, connected to wall-mounted interior antenna. It works okay, but not optimally. When we change to a new MH I think we'll need to upgrade the set up, but we'd rather not purchase the whole set up.
Part of the reason we went with this set up is that my aircard (Sprint Merlin S720) does not have a place to connect an antenna. We also need to improve the signal to our Samsung Galaxy phones (also Sprint.) I don't want to change aircards at this time because I currently have an unlimited 3G plan and don't want to switch to the 4G card until coverage is more readily available.
We've planned to add the Cradlepoint 1200 router to our set up this summer.
Do you have any other suggestions for what we can do to improve our reception? Or what we can do to improve what we have when we move to a 42 to 45 foot MH sometime in the next year?
MoreMobile Steve said
11:12 PM May 26, 2011
Ckerr,
FYI - the S720 does have an antenna port on the side of the device. It's just hidden behind a rubber stopper. That might give you a few more options..
Jack Mayer said
07:58 AM May 27, 2011
The best thing you could do with minimum expense would be to improve the interior antenna. Assuming tht is a viable option - eg. that it can be improved.
What I would do is to move the data off of the wireless setup ONLY when a 4G amp and antenna become available. That should conside with your RV unpgrade in the next year.
Other than that, there is not a whole lot you can do and still maintain your current equipment.
A question for all you full timers out there that have the need to be "online" five days a week due to work requirements. In my case, my day job is related to remote software support for our customers so this is a big issue.
I've have read about all the connectivity options in depth, costs, pros and cons of each over the last few weeks. We are both also pretty tech savvy on our end.
It seems that the lure of "always on" with SAT is slowly being replaced with the increasing coverage of wifi and cell modems over the last few years. In our case, we would opt for the most powerful repeaters/extenders for each of these methods without question if we did not choose sat.
I dont have a problem with the cost of SAT (5K+). It's a business expense really. What concerns me greatly is all the reports of configuration hassles, limited speeds, etc. Who wants to deal with ongoing hassles when you are paying that much?
Having not had the luxury of being on the road for a few years and knowing what is truly practical out there, do you think sat is worth it (assuming as in my case you can not afford to be without net access during normal business hours...). Can you truly get by without sat these days assuming you are not staying in truly remote places?
Appreciate input from those of you that use multiple options to connect on the road.
Thanks to all who helo make this a great forum.
Frosty
Right now we are in southern Utah at Kodachrome Basin State Park and there is no cell service for 15 miles and we are going to be here for 2 months. There have been other times that we were in a park where we had to be under trees and the roof mounted satellite just couldn't see the target. However in both situations, we could have chosen to go somewhere else where coverage was available.
Your call.
I am one of the largest providers of the MotoSAT Datastorm satellite internet system and I can tell you that satellite works, works well and works everywhere (as long as you don't park under a tree). A properly setup Datastorm will not give you and service issues on a regular basis but you may have to do a software update from time to time. This takes about 30 seconds so that's not really an issue either. I do recommend that you have someone with a great deal of Datastorm experience install your system just in case you do run into any kind of bug, this installer will be able to walk you through the issues in short order. The most common issue really has nothing to do with the Datastorm but rather how Hughesnet handles their customers. They make changes to the service based upon their home users requirements and these sometimes temporarily effect the mobile user. A qualified installer will be able to help you address these issues should they pop up. We have had a Datastorm on our coach since Feb. 2002 and the service has been available in excess of 99.9% of the time that we have needed it as we traveled from Coast to Coast. Cellular is by far the least expensive option but you need to determine what you buy based upon what you need. Need is the critical factor for business users.
Bill, what is the cost of the DAT system?
Satellites main advantage is going to be it will work anywhere you have a clear view of the southern sky. The downsides will be the cost and high latency (time to communicate with server). I can't comment on monthly usage but I know Hughesnet and WildBlue's FAP (Fair Access Policy) is pretty low too.
The Hughesnet FAP is lower than what? You will NEVER be charged an overage fee if you exceed your limit with Hughesnet and while the 3G/4G limit is only 5GB of usage (including uploads and downloads) the cheapest Hughes net plan allows 6GB/month of downloads (uploads are free from FAP) plus an unlimited amount of data can be download from 2am - 6am Eastern Time. The way the FAP is handled is different in that you have a daily usage limit but even if you exceed this you do not get charged extra but rather the service is slowed down for about 24 hours. While the FAP is different, it's certainly lower than cellular.
The VAR service plans like the one I have through MotoSAT allows nearly 12GB/month (uploads still FAP free) plus the unlimited early morning downloads.
Although the monthly consumption is higher with Satellite I was referring to the daily limiations Hughesnet has. This is according to their site (old threshold/new threshold):
Home
175 MB
200 MB
Pro
350 MB
375 MB
ProPlus
400 MB
425 MB
Small Office
500 MB
500 MB
Business Internet
1250 MB
1250 MB
With a 3G/4G card assuming you've got a 5GB cap that works out to 170MB/day and 341MB/day with a 10GB plan. The big difference is with 3G/4G you can use as much as you'd like any given day. If you've got a big service pack update you can use your connection at full speed for the entire download.
With Hughesnet you may get a small portion of the download at full speed then your throttled back to near dial up speeds. What good is that when you want to download something big?
Also, with new plans the $10 per GB overage on 3G/4G cards they're much more competetive. Hughesnet power 200 plan is $89.99/mo for 2Mbps/300Kbps with a 400MB/day FAP. For comparisons sake Verizon's 10GB plan is $80/mo giving you 341MB/day and 3G speeds typical 600-1.4Mbps/400-700 and on 4G 5-12Mbps down and 2-5Mbps up.
Sure, with Satellite you get a FAP free period you can download your hearts content, but it's in the middle of the night. It would be sweet if the wireless carriers adapted this system but I'm sure most would prefer a daytime download uninterupted than having to stay up all night just to download something at full speed.
-- Edited by 3Gstore_Matt on Wednesday 4th of May 2011 05:06:51 PM
I'm not trying to skew the information in either direction, I just took the info direct from Hughesnets site. I'm sure there are other providers that offer different tiers and FAP's too. I do think that cellular is most economical and provides the best bang for your buck vs a Satellite system, but as you've said it is all in what you need. If your an extreme off the beaten path hardcore RV person going into the middle of nowhere where cell service doesn't exist Satellite is basically the only option. If you don't fall into that category chances are you'll be much happier with a 3G/4G card than Satellite.
I am not saying that cellular is bad (I have a Verizon air card). However, posting information about satellite having lower FAP levels is incorrect (or at least misleading). Cellular is MUCH cheaper if it works for you. Satellite is MUCH better is you NEED internet where ever you go.
We have had great coverage using Sprint cellular and WiFi combination. Sprint gives unlimited everything plans including free roaming (on all other networks) for both calls and data for aboout $100 (give or take more) per month. This is a family plan that includes two mobile phones (so both DW and I have a phone) and both can use our laptops at the same time with no monthly or daily data limits. I would go the extra step to mount a Wilson Trucker's Antenna on the roof and a Wilson Mobile Wireless Amplifier Kit so you can get a strong signal in most areas, including out west.
You can read about our set-up here.
I've tested that particular Mobile Wilson wireless amp and was not impressed with it.
I'd be interested in any data you have on it that shows how well it works in your setup, and how far you can move from the interior antenna and the gain involved.
In my testing, there was virtually zero gain beyond 4' with the supplied interior antenna. I did acheive better results with a trucker antenna inside, but even that was marginal beyond 7'. To be fair, this device IS intended to be used inside a car, where the shorter distances would not be an issue. I would never recommend it for whole-RV coverage, but it would suffice for close-in coverage.
I much prefer a dedicated wired amp for the cellular data. It performs far better under every circumstance.
For a wireless amp, I have tested the Small and Large RV packages sold by Maximumsignal. These work about as well as a wireless amp can. I got good gain throughout the RV. However, I still believe it is best to have a dedicated wired amp for the aircard.
We too need to maintain our internet connection. Right now we have a Wilson set up... Trucker antenna connected to SOHO Wireless amp, connected to wall-mounted interior antenna. It works okay, but not optimally. When we change to a new MH I think we'll need to upgrade the set up, but we'd rather not purchase the whole set up.
Part of the reason we went with this set up is that my aircard (Sprint Merlin S720) does not have a place to connect an antenna. We also need to improve the signal to our Samsung Galaxy phones (also Sprint.) I don't want to change aircards at this time because I currently have an unlimited 3G plan and don't want to switch to the 4G card until coverage is more readily available.
We've planned to add the Cradlepoint 1200 router to our set up this summer.
Do you have any other suggestions for what we can do to improve our reception? Or what we can do to improve what we have when we move to a 42 to 45 foot MH sometime in the next year?
Ckerr,
FYI - the S720 does have an antenna port on the side of the device. It's just hidden behind a rubber stopper. That might give you a few more options..
What I would do is to move the data off of the wireless setup ONLY when a 4G amp and antenna become available. That should conside with your RV unpgrade in the next year.
Other than that, there is not a whole lot you can do and still maintain your current equipment.