I'm putting together my full-timer rig in the next few months. For a trailer, I'm looking at used 5th-wheels in the 27-34 foot range.
I have a friend who might want to trade her '97 Ford F-350 turbo diesel crew cab for my car. The truck has 130,000+ miles on it, has had some recent work and replacements, new tires, and already has a gooseneck hitch. I can't afford anything beyond what I could get for my 2006 car, which is worth around $7700 by Kelly BB standards.
Main question: If I get a rig that has GVWR of 14,500 lbs, is the above too much truck, or just the right amount? Should I try to find an F-250 or equivalent instead?
Secondary question: Would a truck of that age hold me for about a year, until I can afford a newer truck? I plan to do some cross-country for sure.
I haven't done much shopping around yet, so am not sure whether to jump on this truck (and maybe request she pay a little for the difference in bluebook value), or hold out to see what else I can find.
Any wisdom you can share is greatly appreciated!
--Beverly
PangeaPlanet said
08:57 PM Mar 26, 2011
From further reading on this forum, I'll ask the truck owner what the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight rating is and report back.
Terry and Jo said
09:11 PM Mar 26, 2011
Beverly,
It may not be big enough. The oldest brochure I could find on the Ford trucks was 2002 and the best they were rated to tow was around 13,200 lbs.
Sometimes, you have to find the appropriate "Towing Guide" to find the information you need. What you need to do is to take the truck to a Ford dealership and let him get the information off of the data plate (or sticker) that is usually on the door post. It is usually visible down low on the post when the front door is opened That information will let him determine how that truck was equipped in the way of rear differential ratio, engine and other things. That is provided, that there is still information out there for a truck of that age.
Also, look for the GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight) rating for the truck. Then you need to know the actual weight of the truck with full fuel, passengers, cargo, pets, etc. The weight of the truck is then added to the weight of the trailer with all cargo, accessories, fluids, etc., to get the absolute total weight of both vehicles. That absolute total weight should NOT exceed the GCVW. Incidentally, GVWR is spoken of a lot and is the gross weight of that particular truck or trailer while fully loaded.
While a "towing weight rating" is a reasonable guide, it should not be trusted for the truck's actual capacity. It is possible to be within a vehicle's "towing weight" but be over on GCVW.
Also, be sure that you have a trusted mechanic check out any truck you are considering. Diesel engines generally last longer than gasoline engines do, provided they are taken care of with regular maintenance. Also have a mechanic check out all of the suspension, brakes, and other things. While the engine may be fine, some of the other components of the truck may be wearing out. If all that checks out, the truck should last a year at least.
With a trailer the size you are considering, look to see if the truck you are interested in has an engine brake or exhaust brake installed. (Your mechanic likely could tell you.) If the truck isn't equipped with either of those, check to see that the transmission has a "Tow/Haul" feature that will assist you in slowing down, especially on mountain passes or down long grades. Also, a truck with dual rear wheels will provide better weight capability and stability in towing.
Good luck with all your research.
Terry
Edit: Removed link which had become unrelated to brochures, and possibly even to the dealership that provided them.
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Wednesday 6th of February 2013 06:18:34 PM
PangeaPlanet said
09:30 PM Mar 26, 2011
Wow, thank you so much, Terry! I will follow your advice.
Best, Beverly
53 Merc said
06:54 AM Mar 27, 2011
There are a lot of people that would gladly take the F-350 with the older diesel in it. That engine is built like an anvil. Only way to hurt it would be with a sledge hammer. The transmission is most likely a C-6 if it's an automatic, which is strong, but does not come with a "Tow/Haul" feature. That is easily fixable with a pacbrake exhaust retarder. You can hope the transmission is a 5 speed, which would have been preferred in 97 expecially since you say it already has a gooseneck. Most "truckers" of that era preferred a standard box.
Unlike our resident "weight police" Terry (hey, you claimed the title), I would not hesitate to hook up to a 30 ft fiver with such a pickup. (OK Terry, shoot). Understand that a 97 pickup will have issues but you may have issues with a new one also. Recently, a firend traded his 2007 because of issues. Me, I am sticking with my 04 because I don't want to put urea in a special tank. My 04 is still strong at 103K.
RickandJanice said
08:11 AM Mar 27, 2011
Terry gives alot of good advice and I agree the whole truck should be checked out, especially the transmission and suspension. As Ken said, the older 7.3 diesel was built to last and is IMHO one of the best small diesel engines ever on the market. As long as it was cared for properly, at 130K it still has allot of life left in it. At 14K GVWR for the trailer, you are probably at the upper end of the tow rating for an F350 but should still be a good match up. On the 7.3 I would also recommend an exhaust brake if it does not have one. Good Luck!
53 Merc said
12:16 PM Mar 27, 2011
Let us not forget, GVWR is the maximum Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, not the actual weight of the rig. Mine has a 15800 GVWR and it weighs in at below 14000 (since I unloaded a bunch of things). Again, I would not hesitate to hook up a 350 or 3500 to a 30 ft fiver unless I had gone absolutely crazy loading my "want to haves" versus my "need to haves" in it. We, with myself included, will look at that big basement storage area that just ain't full and say, well this little thing won't matter all that much.
Personally, I am far more concerned with the tires on the trailer being adequate for the load than the pickup being slightly undersized for the load. A couple of years ago, I bit the bullet and removed almost new tires from my trailer because they were made in China and others with the same brand and size had suffered numerous failures and damage. I replaced the tires with Michelin XPS Rib tires with a stated capacity of 3042 per tire. Forgive the hijack of the thread with tires. I know it was about "is a 97 F350 too much truck" to tow a 30 ft trailer. Sorry.
Now, back on thread, an F350 is a beast. The 7.3 is an anvil, and given normal care in maintenance it shold be good for 250K miles. There are many of them out there with over 400K miles on them. Yeah, you have to expect to do body or chassis maintenance. Shock absorbers, hoses, belts, u-joints, bearings (both front and rear) will need replacement, and many other items will require help along the way. But would I trade the possibility of requirements of maintenance versus a new pickup payment? I don't think I would, especially now. The OP has the opportunity to get a fine towing vehicle by an even trade of an existing vehicle. To me, it is a no brainer.
PangeaPlanet said
12:25 PM Mar 27, 2011
Thank you, Rick & Janice and Ken & Fran.
Good point about the curb weight versus the GVWR. I was wondering about that.
PangeaPlanet said
01:57 PM Mar 27, 2011
I'm glad to be alerted to the importance of tires, too. My goal is to sail as worry-free down the road as possible! :)
injunear said
10:04 PM Mar 27, 2011
Beverly
I put 239,000 on a 1996 F-350 then sold it to a friend in 2009. My friend has driven it about 50,000 miles. Towed a goose neck trailer with 14,000 to 16,000 lbs on trips half way across country several times a year.
Other than oil changes every 5000 miles and tires. Only spent about $1500 in other repairs all general maintenance.
That truck was a brut and easy to drive.
Buy the truck, but ask for some money in the trade.
Wayne
PangeaPlanet said
11:26 PM Mar 27, 2011
Thanks for sharing your experience, Wayne. Almost 300,000 miles is amazing from my untrained perspective!
Mmalenski said
05:16 PM Mar 28, 2011
I own 2006 f350 and just love it.. We can pull almost anything down the road and I can't even Tell Im pulling something down the road. I love being over powered ...straight up hill, no problem,down hill My towing package kicks in and slows me down... I,ve been under power and it's scary, now I'm not stressed out At the end of the day driving down the road. I can even kick in the cruise control at 70 Mph..I've added airbags on the rear end And a K and N air intake to help the engine breath... Love it, and love the power,plus diesel is the way to go!!!!
Mmalenski said
05:33 PM Mar 28, 2011
Plus we can also use are AC while we travel down the road as well..
PangeaPlanet said
07:08 PM Mar 28, 2011
Thanks, M. I like the idea of feeling confident going down the road because I'm not under-powered.
Best, Beverly
suse1023 said
01:01 AM Feb 7, 2013
hey 53merc i have an older 4x4 7.3 liter for sale to a good home. i'm in new england, do you know where i should advertise it?
53 Merc said
04:25 PM Feb 7, 2013
suse1023 wrote:
hey 53merc i have an older 4x4 7.3 liter for sale to a good home. i'm in new england, do you know where i should advertise it?
necro posting. Thread last activity was in 2011.
flyone said
08:49 PM Feb 7, 2013
You can't get to much truck-----like others have said the 7.3L is a great engine---I have read a couple of different places that it is one of the ten best ever "EVER" made, and they have been making diesel engines for a long time. I like 53 Merc would have no problem with hooking up a 30 ft. fiver to it if it is in good mechanical shape. I say go for it, you may look for a long time and not come across a deal like this. You may want to get a little cash in the deal for any needed repairs. I know people who have 300k miles on a 7.3L and still going strong. My concern would be the tranny---that can be replaced easy enough, a little costly but getting some cash in the deal would help. Good luck
Flyone
PIEERE said
09:09 PM Feb 7, 2013
Is this the truck with the International diesel engine? I worked on school buses and the International diesel engined bus was a workhorse. The chassis would rust away and the engine was still running good. A friend of mine had a mid-80's F-350 4X4 with the 7.3 He pulled a semi-tractor out of the ditch one time. the family used that truck for anything one could imagine. Last I remember he had 500+ thousand miles on it.
PangeaPlanet said
05:27 AM Feb 8, 2013
Please feel free to carry on the thread, but to update everyone, I have postponed my RV plans while I help care for my disabled grandmother. After transporting my four cats by car several hours to her home, which was way stressful for all five of us, I have decided a motor coach will be best for me. I had been going back and forth between that and a 5th wheel, and that experience clinched it for me!
Best, Bev
suse1023 said
03:02 PM Feb 12, 2013
thanks for the update bev, i so understand postponing things for caregiving duties. back in 1997 my youngest was off to college and i was ready to sell my home and hit the road. but my elderly and handicapped parents moved here that summer to be near me for caretaking and here it is, 2013 and the house is finally on the market.
good to know about your cats too, as i have four plus an elderly dog and their comfort has been a big concern to me while we're on the road. i'm leaning towards a fifth so i can have my truck to run around in where ever i land, but am not totally opposed to a toad either.
still have my 2002 f-350 4x4 diesel for sale in vermont too if anyone's looking for this engine truck.
PangeaPlanet said
07:06 AM Mar 5, 2013
Suse1023,
I was originally planning on a 5th wheel for the same reason, and it would have been really handy to have a truck for all sorts of reasons. But, I think a toad that can carry all of us in an emergency is a smart option, and it will allow them to ride in comfort and safety in the motorcoach all the rest of the time.
I'm putting together my full-timer rig in the next few months. For a trailer, I'm looking at used 5th-wheels in the 27-34 foot range.
I have a friend who might want to trade her '97 Ford F-350 turbo diesel crew cab for my car. The truck has 130,000+ miles on it, has had some recent work and replacements, new tires, and already has a gooseneck hitch. I can't afford anything beyond what I could get for my 2006 car, which is worth around $7700 by Kelly BB standards.
Main question: If I get a rig that has GVWR of 14,500 lbs, is the above too much truck, or just the right amount? Should I try to find an F-250 or equivalent instead?
Secondary question: Would a truck of that age hold me for about a year, until I can afford a newer truck? I plan to do some cross-country for sure.
I haven't done much shopping around yet, so am not sure whether to jump on this truck (and maybe request she pay a little for the difference in bluebook value), or hold out to see what else I can find.
Any wisdom you can share is greatly appreciated!
--Beverly
Beverly,
It may not be big enough. The oldest brochure I could find on the Ford trucks was 2002 and the best they were rated to tow was around 13,200 lbs.
Sometimes, you have to find the appropriate "Towing Guide" to find the information you need. What you need to do is to take the truck to a Ford dealership and let him get the information off of the data plate (or sticker) that is usually on the door post. It is usually visible down low on the post when the front door is opened That information will let him determine how that truck was equipped in the way of rear differential ratio, engine and other things. That is provided, that there is still information out there for a truck of that age.
Also, look for the GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight) rating for the truck. Then you need to know the actual weight of the truck with full fuel, passengers, cargo, pets, etc. The weight of the truck is then added to the weight of the trailer with all cargo, accessories, fluids, etc., to get the absolute total weight of both vehicles. That absolute total weight should NOT exceed the GCVW. Incidentally, GVWR is spoken of a lot and is the gross weight of that particular truck or trailer while fully loaded.
While a "towing weight rating" is a reasonable guide, it should not be trusted for the truck's actual capacity. It is possible to be within a vehicle's "towing weight" but be over on GCVW.
Also, be sure that you have a trusted mechanic check out any truck you are considering. Diesel engines generally last longer than gasoline engines do, provided they are taken care of with regular maintenance. Also have a mechanic check out all of the suspension, brakes, and other things. While the engine may be fine, some of the other components of the truck may be wearing out. If all that checks out, the truck should last a year at least.
With a trailer the size you are considering, look to see if the truck you are interested in has an engine brake or exhaust brake installed. (Your mechanic likely could tell you.) If the truck isn't equipped with either of those, check to see that the transmission has a "Tow/Haul" feature that will assist you in slowing down, especially on mountain passes or down long grades. Also, a truck with dual rear wheels will provide better weight capability and stability in towing.
Good luck with all your research.
Terry
Edit: Removed link which had become unrelated to brochures, and possibly even to the dealership that provided them.
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Wednesday 6th of February 2013 06:18:34 PM
Best,
Beverly
Unlike our resident "weight police" Terry (hey, you claimed the title), I would not hesitate to hook up to a 30 ft fiver with such a pickup. (OK Terry, shoot). Understand that a 97 pickup will have issues but you may have issues with a new one also. Recently, a firend traded his 2007 because of issues. Me, I am sticking with my 04 because I don't want to put urea in a special tank. My 04 is still strong at 103K.
Terry gives alot of good advice and I agree the whole truck should be checked out, especially the transmission and suspension. As Ken said, the older 7.3 diesel was built to last and is IMHO one of the best small diesel engines ever on the market. As long as it was cared for properly, at 130K it still has allot of life left in it. At 14K GVWR for the trailer, you are probably at the upper end of the tow rating for an F350 but should still be a good match up. On the 7.3 I would also recommend an exhaust brake if it does not have one. Good Luck!
Personally, I am far more concerned with the tires on the trailer being adequate for the load than the pickup being slightly undersized for the load. A couple of years ago, I bit the bullet and removed almost new tires from my trailer because they were made in China and others with the same brand and size had suffered numerous failures and damage. I replaced the tires with Michelin XPS Rib tires with a stated capacity of 3042 per tire. Forgive the hijack of the thread with tires. I know it was about "is a 97 F350 too much truck" to tow a 30 ft trailer. Sorry.
Now, back on thread, an F350 is a beast. The 7.3 is an anvil, and given normal care in maintenance it shold be good for 250K miles. There are many of them out there with over 400K miles on them. Yeah, you have to expect to do body or chassis maintenance. Shock absorbers, hoses, belts, u-joints, bearings (both front and rear) will need replacement, and many other items will require help along the way. But would I trade the possibility of requirements of maintenance versus a new pickup payment? I don't think I would, especially now. The OP has the opportunity to get a fine towing vehicle by an even trade of an existing vehicle. To me, it is a no brainer.
Good point about the curb weight versus the GVWR. I was wondering about that.
Beverly
I put 239,000 on a 1996 F-350 then sold it to a friend in 2009. My friend has driven it about 50,000 miles. Towed a goose neck trailer with 14,000 to 16,000 lbs on trips half way across country several times a year.
Other than oil changes every 5000 miles and tires. Only spent about $1500 in other repairs all general maintenance.
That truck was a brut and easy to drive.
Buy the truck, but ask for some money in the trade.
Wayne
Tell Im pulling something down the road. I love being over powered ...straight up hill, no problem,down hill
My towing package kicks in and slows me down... I,ve been under power and it's scary, now I'm not stressed out
At the end of the day driving down the road. I can even kick in the cruise control at 70 Mph..I've added airbags on the rear end
And a K and N air intake to help the engine breath... Love it, and love the power,plus diesel is the way to go!!!!
Best,
Beverly
i'm in new england, do you know where i should advertise it?
necro posting. Thread last activity was in 2011.
You can't get to much truck-----like others have said the 7.3L is a great engine---I have read a couple of different places that it is one of the ten best ever "EVER" made, and they have been making diesel engines for a long time. I like 53 Merc would have no problem with hooking up a 30 ft. fiver to it if it is in good mechanical shape. I say go for it, you may look for a long time and not come across a deal like this. You may want to get a little cash in the deal for any needed repairs. I know people who have 300k miles on a 7.3L and still going strong. My concern would be the tranny---that can be replaced easy enough, a little costly but getting some cash in the deal would help. Good luck
Flyone
Best,
Bev
back in 1997 my youngest was off to college and i was ready to sell my home and hit the road.
but my elderly and handicapped parents moved here that summer to be near me for caretaking and here it is, 2013 and the house is finally on the market.
good to know about your cats too, as i have four plus an elderly dog and their comfort has been a big concern to me while we're on the road.
i'm leaning towards a fifth so i can have my truck to run around in where ever i land, but am not totally opposed to a toad either.
still have my 2002 f-350 4x4 diesel for sale in vermont too if anyone's looking for this engine truck.
Suse1023,
I was originally planning on a 5th wheel for the same reason, and it would have been really handy to have a truck for all sorts of reasons. But, I think a toad that can carry all of us in an emergency is a smart option, and it will allow them to ride in comfort and safety in the motorcoach all the rest of the time.