My first and hopefully last purchase, so questions inside!
Craze said
05:53 PM Jan 27, 2011
I'm newly registered here and just posted my intro up top.
Looking at 5ver THes as my main living unit from here on out and have been noticing a few standout comments as I look at previous posts.
1 - Why do people seem to dislike Thor products so much? Seems that they have taken over a chunk of the industry and offer everything from inexpensive weekenders to top-of-the-line units. Is there something I'm missing? I ask, because I'm really leaning toward the new Voltage lineup they offer. Going to walk the actual model 3905 and 50 Monday to make sure everything is what I'm looking for, but the ones I've seen so far are pretty top-notch and non-dirtbike styled.
2 - What are some of the favorite pullers and experiences with them. I'm looking at the F450, as I'm a Ford fan, but would rather buy what makes sense rather than what I've always owned. Some use Freightliner, and what have you, so any useful tips would be much appreciated. The 5ver I'm looking at is over 40 foot, so GVW will be at the upper end for sure once I load a garage.
3 - Solar? Seems like the best choice over running a genny all the time, but I'm totally new to the actual implementation. I understand electricity pretty well, so everything seems to point this way, but quality and lifespan are concerns.
Anyway, I'll leave it at that for now, since I'm sure I could keep asking stuff all day. Thanks in advance for any input.
tworootless said
06:45 PM Jan 27, 2011
If you can't find your towing answer on here, hop over to The Escapes Forum. Click on HDT (Heavy duty truck) like the one we operate; Volvo two axle semi, registered as a motor-home. Be safe, not sorry if you intend to haul something of that size.
Terry and Jo said
06:51 PM Jan 27, 2011
Jason,
As to the question about Thor products, it will all boil down to finding what it is that will meet your requirements, and verifying information as to the quality of the product. Answers also depend on other questions, such as are you going to be spending time in cold weather, what will all the things you want in the unit weigh, and numerous others that you will stumble upon in your search.
For instance, the two models you spoke of each have a GVWR of 19000 lbs, allowing 4800 lbs of personal items, groceries, accessories, and whatever it is that you will put in your garage. Lets face it, motorcycles and tools aren't light. If you add the solar panels, there is more weight to consider, not to mention putting additional holes in the roof that will need good sealing. Everything that you add in those areas will take away from your ability to carry other items.
As for cold temperatures, the models you spoke of claim a pretty high "R" rating, but how is that rating achieved? For instance, the Mobile Suites that I have has a lower "R" rating, but our walls are 3 1/4 inches thick. Are the Thor walls as thick or thicker, allowing extra insulation, or is someone claiming "R" numbers for materials in the walls that might be questioned. All of this is something you will need to check with others about, looking for actual experience with the Thor products.
If the Voltage is at full GVWR, the Ford F450 should pull it, even though they did downgrade the 2011 models in GVWR of the truck and wheel size. I mention wheel size because the brake sizes may be smaller as well. But, looking at the numbers, the Ford F450 will tow 24,000 pounds and has a Gross Combined Vehicular Weight (GCVW) rating of 33,000 pounds. DO NOT RELY ON JUST ONE OF THOSE NUMBERS. You can be towing 24,000 pounds and you will be over on GCVW, because then you would only have 11,000 pounds that your truck can weigh with all cargo, passengers and fuel.
Towing a trailer is one thing. Stopping it is another. What might tow, might not stop. In choosing a truck, a lot of folks I know want a truck that is rated higher than the full weight of the trailer they pull. For instance, our Mobile Suites has a GVWR of 18,500 pounds. Our 2008 F450 has a GVWR of 14,500 pounds. If both are fully loaded to the max, I would be RIGHT ON the 33,000 pounds GCVW of the F450. I won't have either fully loaded because I don't want the units to weigh that much. I want a little "wiggle" room.
As for F450 or MDT (Freightliner M2 or instance), where will you be registering your truck and trailer? Some states require special licensing for MDT's. While the F450 is considered an MDT, it is at the low end of that category.
It looks like you have a lot of researching to do. Good luck with all of it, and WELCOME to the RV Dreams forum.
Terry
Craze said
07:37 PM Jan 27, 2011
Hey Terry, thanks for the data. I should be more clear on my questions though. I understand weights and limitations, I'm really looking into the serviceability / reliability end and experiences people have had across the spectrum.
The issue with the brakes could be a big one though. While the decrease in GVWR was tolerable, the wheel size and brakes could be a deal breaker for sure. Seems like they may have just turned the 450 into a glorified 350. Only diff I can really find is the added 3000 lbs to combined weight.
While I'm going to be new to the RV thing, pulling trailers loaded with motorcycles is a old-time habit of mine. :) I've just been using musty motels as my living space!
Terry and Jo said
08:39 AM Jan 28, 2011
OK. After thinking about what I wrote earlier, I should clarify that while the total GVWR of the two separate vehicles would be at 33,000 pounds, one has to consider that roughly 4000 pounds of the fifth wheel would be on the truck. The way I worded it earlier made it look like I would be nearly or right at the max for the F450.
In order to make sure that GVWR for the pickup is not exceeded, I would need to make sure that prior to hooking up to the coach that the truck weight with all passengers, fuel, and other cargo would not exceed roughly 11,400 pounds. Or, at least low enough that the pin weight would not make the truck exceed the 14,500 pounds GVWR.
Sorry for any confusion I might have created.
Terry
Bill and Linda said
01:59 PM Jan 28, 2011
The Ford, Chevy, Dodge thing is simply a personal preference.I prefer the new Chevy Duramax 3500 due to the Allison Transmission and the significantly increased 29,000+ combined weight rating, etc. The brakes (14”) and frame structure of the truck is all new and much bigger.I’ve had such great and trouble free service with the Chevy I really like it.But that’s just me.(BTW, I can already surmise you realize the 350 / 450 / 3500, etc. designations don’t mean a thing anymore.)
That said, the new Ford engine and transmission (2011) looks very good on paper and has tested well.However, neither the new engine nor new transmission has a track record.That doesn’t mean it won’t do a good job.I just don’t care for version 1.0 of anything. Next model year we’ll have some data points.
However, you indicated you would like to just buy one time and with a 40 foot rig may I suggest you look at the site below hosted by Jack Mayer.
There are links embedded on the page above to other sites including Mark Bruss’ who also knows what he is talking about and has an excellent HDT conversion overview.
You may need a MDT / HDT conversion based on this being a toy hauler type.Saying the rig is 40 feet doesn’t tell me enough to give any real recommendation. But Jack knows what he is talking about and perhaps it is worth your time to give his and Mark’s web sites a read. However this project is not for the faint of pocketbook or mechanical knowledge if you go the conversion route.It is just so important to really understand the specifications yourself before making any of these decisions. Other than that, all this, from us at least, is just mostly speculation. At least that is my opinion.
Safe travels
Bill
Craze said
12:18 AM Jan 30, 2011
Thanks Bill, good info. I went and drove a couple Kodiaks today and I'm thinking that will be the way to go. Maybe not that exact truck, but the MDT is definitely a step toward a more capable truck. I just don't see how the Chevy / Dodge / Ford standard offering is going to cut it for what I'm pulling. The garage will most likely be filled to the 2500 lb capacity or close to it. That only leaves a little over a ton for the trailer itself if I go with a 19k unit. That means the truck will be forced to carry stuff as well, so my GCVR will need to head skyward a little. That and the Kodiaks look to be built to last like a semi, rather than a "regular" truck. I know my Fords have done well way into the 100k area, but I'm thinking a 500k truck isn't far out of the scope for what I have planned.
Bill and Linda said
07:29 AM Jan 30, 2011
If you can find a Kodiak in an RV hauler configuration or a bare rails to convert, that would be an excellent choice.You might try Monroe.They may have some.Don’t’ know.But as you do know, that would give you the excellent Duramax / Allison drive train in a MDT configuration including the turbo exhaust brake and a good turning radius along with the other capabilities of that fine ride. That’s a real nice truck and some of the conversions are sweet.
For what it’s worth my Duramax / Allision has about 60,000 towing miles (17,000 lb 5’er) and has been trouble free including our little 14,000+ odd mile trip last year to Alaska. I Got 11.2 MPH yesterday coming up from Florida toward North Carolina.For me, that’s OK.Runs like a dream and is really quite.Regardless of your choice, hope yours does as well.
Good luck and safe travels.
Bill
sirwinston21 said
02:55 PM Jan 30, 2011
People seem to be against Thor for the same reason as Microsoft. They are the largest RV manufacture and they make for big target. I have had 2 different Thor products ( Montana and Alpine) and have been extremely satisfied with the value verses cost.
Racerguy said
04:47 PM Jan 30, 2011
I always thought Montana was a Keystone product.
Terry and Jo said
06:50 PM Jan 30, 2011
George,
Keystone is owned by Thor. Thor owns several brands. Check out Thor's website to see everything they handle. It is a lot.
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Sunday 30th of January 2011 06:51:16 PM
Racerguy said
07:54 PM Jan 30, 2011
Thanks for the clarification Terry, It's nice to know I'm not to old to still learn something.
-- Edited by Racerguy on Sunday 30th of January 2011 07:55:11 PM
Craze said
11:52 PM Feb 21, 2011
Well, I just purchased my hauler and I have to say, it's a beaut! I did the research till my eyes popped out and stumbled on a deal right here in town for a Volvo 610 that has recently been converted to a hauler and singled with all the right stuff. Biggest being the fact that I can pretty much tow anything I like and still have a ton of storage in the truck itself. Having the two seats isn't a big deal for me and the extra sleeper will be good for the type of places I go and having guests find a place to crash. It also allows me to take shorter trips in just the truck without the 5er following if I need.
Now it's time to decide on the Toy Hauler. I've got two I'm looking at this next week and if all goes well, I'll be settling in and taking one of them for a maiden voyage by the end of March. Both are Alfas and are in like-new condition. I've been really pleased with the build quality I've seen and the price can't be beat from what I've found. Having them be out of business is a little daunting, but there's a good group of info out there in the various Alfa groups I've stumbled across and they have all said jump on it.
janni said
09:26 AM Feb 22, 2011
Beautiful and Congrats!
53 Merc said
01:17 PM Feb 22, 2011
WOO HOO!!! Man, looks like a truck with a capital T. What engine did you get? Can you give a range of the price. Can you tell I am drooling all over my keyboard? (understand, I ain't asking how much you gave, just a general range)
Craze said
06:52 PM Feb 22, 2011
Thanks guys! It's definitely got a capital "T" all over it. Funnest thing to drive too. After a couple city street turns, it felt like home and is extremely comfortable. It's a 2001 with a Detroit 12 series and still in the "sweet spot" for mileage. Best part is, I gave in the low 30's. Best deal I found anywhere and the seller was a great guy and a pleasure to work with. Hauler bed is brand new along with the dorm box and fresh Imron paint too. Got enough storage for all the tools so that the garage in the toy hauler can focus on being storage for my bikes and parts rather than wasting all the weight on my tool chests. Can't wait to get her out for a week or so to really put it to the test.
kb0zke said
09:21 PM Feb 23, 2011
Since I'm still in the early research phase, too, I'm interested in this discussion.
I understand the value of having a MDT or HDT to tow a heavy FW, and I agree with that logic. The question, though, comes up about what do you drive from the campsite to see the area, go shopping, etc.? Somehow I find it difficult to see that Volvo in the church parking lot, for instance.
I know there are a few who have a sturdy truck for a tow vehicle and a smaller car for running around. That means that both vehicles have to be driven from one campsite to another, and that means that neither one of us has a navigator. I've seen pictures of trucks with a Smart parked on it ahead of the FW. How practical is that?
My concern is that all of this could easily spiral out of control. I'm reminded of an article I read in Flying many years ago. For $10,000 one could buy a new Cessna 150, or a 172 that was only a few years old. One could also buy a slightly older 182, or a somewhat older light twin. The final plane in the string of $10,000 airplanes was a DC-3. The point was that one can always get a bit more capability, but at a price. Either you will pay more for it for the same age vehicle, or you will pay the same for an older vehicle.
I guess our desire is for us to have a two-part RV, not a three-part one. That means that if we go with a FV or TT the two vehicle will be our running-around vehicle, too. If we go with a MH, of course, we'll have a small car as a toad.
Experts, am I way off base here?
Craze said
12:04 AM Feb 24, 2011
David,
I agree completely with the 2 vehicle rather than 3 philosophy to an extent. My Volvo has enough bed space on the hauler bed for a Smart car (that's what the original owner was intending). For me, since my business is motorcycle building, I will always have a minimum of two bikes in the fifth wheel (toy hauler with 12' garage), and those are my "around town" vehicles for most things. The Volvo has already gone to dinner with me a couple times and to the grocery store as well as the bank. The only thing you have to do is take up two tandem spots in the lot or along a long legal curb area. Not too hard from my perspective. It's a mid-cab unit, so height is a little easier, but there will be some spots with low bridges that will be off limits I'm sure. My philosophy is that you can always find a way to make it happen with enough planning or plain ol' perseverance.
I started looking for the right MDT or smaller, but after looking at the TopKicks and the newer Ford/GM/Dodge offerings, I couldn't find anything that allowed my needs to be met - tools, tools, and more tools that weigh a lot and would leave me no room for the niceties like clothes and food without a bigger rig. Your situation will definitely have its own unique issues and I say build and buy to those.
dream reachers said
12:47 AM Feb 24, 2011
Nice pick on the truck Craze. It is good you did not try to get a truck that would just barely meet the weight rating. My MDT and trailer is listed in classified for anyone wanting a good fulltime rig. kbOzke we have parked our truck in church parking lots all across the nation in the last 3 years [without the trailer]. We often get some looks as we pull in but we park away from most other vehicles and often receive a warm welcome as we enter the church. It is really not a big deal for me as my truck doesn't have a much different foot print than a dually pickup although it is taller and a lot more stable pulling and braking. Our trailer is top of the line not just by the manufacturer but by Consumers Group as a fulltime unit but it is not a toy hauler. Best wishes on your future adventures, we are loving it everyday with big plans for the future.
dream reachers said
01:07 AM Feb 24, 2011
Craze you are "right on" about having enough carrying capacity for your tools. I do volunteer church building and carry 2 portable generaters an 3gal. air compressor, small rolling scafold, adjustal ladder plus all my power and hand tools on my truck and have much weight to spare so free up space and weight in the trailer. I can drop the trailer and take take my truck to the job. I can stay within my weight ratings on both truck and trailer. I see many people riding dangerously overloaded and wonder why they have blowouts etc. I don't believe you will regret your decision on your truck.
As to the question about Thor products, it will all boil down to finding what it is that will meet your requirements, and verifying information as to the quality of the product. Answers also depend on other questions, such as are you going to be spending time in cold weather, what will all the things you want in the unit weigh, and numerous others that you will stumble upon in your search.
For instance, the two models you spoke of each have a GVWR of 19000 lbs, allowing 4800 lbs of personal items, groceries, accessories, and whatever it is that you will put in your garage. Lets face it, motorcycles and tools aren't light. If you add the solar panels, there is more weight to consider, not to mention putting additional holes in the roof that will need good sealing. Everything that you add in those areas will take away from your ability to carry other items.
As for cold temperatures, the models you spoke of claim a pretty high "R" rating, but how is that rating achieved? For instance, the Mobile Suites that I have has a lower "R" rating, but our walls are 3 1/4 inches thick. Are the Thor walls as thick or thicker, allowing extra insulation, or is someone claiming "R" numbers for materials in the walls that might be questioned. All of this is something you will need to check with others about, looking for actual experience with the Thor products.
If the Voltage is at full GVWR, the Ford F450 should pull it, even though they did downgrade the 2011 models in GVWR of the truck and wheel size. I mention wheel size because the brake sizes may be smaller as well. But, looking at the numbers, the Ford F450 will tow 24,000 pounds and has a Gross Combined Vehicular Weight (GCVW) rating of 33,000 pounds. DO NOT RELY ON JUST ONE OF THOSE NUMBERS. You can be towing 24,000 pounds and you will be over on GCVW, because then you would only have 11,000 pounds that your truck can weigh with all cargo, passengers and fuel.
Towing a trailer is one thing. Stopping it is another. What might tow, might not stop. In choosing a truck, a lot of folks I know want a truck that is rated higher than the full weight of the trailer they pull. For instance, our Mobile Suites has a GVWR of 18,500 pounds. Our 2008 F450 has a GVWR of 14,500 pounds. If both are fully loaded to the max, I would be RIGHT ON the 33,000 pounds GCVW of the F450. I won't have either fully loaded because I don't want the units to weigh that much. I want a little "wiggle" room.
As for F450 or MDT (Freightliner M2 or instance), where will you be registering your truck and trailer? Some states require special licensing for MDT's. While the F450 is considered an MDT, it is at the low end of that category.
It looks like you have a lot of researching to do. Good luck with all of it, and WELCOME to the RV Dreams forum.
Terry
In order to make sure that GVWR for the pickup is not exceeded, I would need to make sure that prior to hooking up to the coach that the truck weight with all passengers, fuel, and other cargo would not exceed roughly 11,400 pounds. Or, at least low enough that the pin weight would not make the truck exceed the 14,500 pounds GVWR.
Sorry for any confusion I might have created.
Terry
The Ford, Chevy, Dodge thing is simply a personal preference. I prefer the new Chevy Duramax 3500 due to the Allison Transmission and the significantly increased 29,000+ combined weight rating, etc. The brakes (14”) and frame structure of the truck is all new and much bigger. I’ve had such great and trouble free service with the Chevy I really like it. But that’s just me. (BTW, I can already surmise you realize the 350 / 450 / 3500, etc. designations don’t mean a thing anymore.)
That said, the new Ford engine and transmission (2011) looks very good on paper and has tested well. However, neither the new engine nor new transmission has a track record. That doesn’t mean it won’t do a good job. I just don’t care for version 1.0 of anything. Next model year we’ll have some data points.
However, you indicated you would like to just buy one time and with a 40 foot rig may I suggest you look at the site below hosted by Jack Mayer.
http://jackdanmayer.com/choosing_between_an_mdt_and_an_hdt.htm
There are links embedded on the page above to other sites including Mark Bruss’ who also knows what he is talking about and has an excellent HDT conversion overview.
You may need a MDT / HDT conversion based on this being a toy hauler type. Saying the rig is 40 feet doesn’t tell me enough to give any real recommendation. But Jack knows what he is talking about and perhaps it is worth your time to give his and Mark’s web sites a read. However this project is not for the faint of pocketbook or mechanical knowledge if you go the conversion route. It is just so important to really understand the specifications yourself before making any of these decisions. Other than that, all this, from us at least, is just mostly speculation. At least that is my opinion.
Safe travels
Bill
If you can find a Kodiak in an RV hauler configuration or a bare rails to convert, that would be an excellent choice. You might try Monroe. They may have some. Don’t’ know. But as you do know, that would give you the excellent Duramax / Allison drive train in a MDT configuration including the turbo exhaust brake and a good turning radius along with the other capabilities of that fine ride. That’s a real nice truck and some of the conversions are sweet.
For what it’s worth my Duramax / Allision has about 60,000 towing miles (17,000 lb 5’er) and has been trouble free including our little 14,000+ odd mile trip last year to Alaska. I Got 11.2 MPH yesterday coming up from Florida toward North Carolina. For me, that’s OK. Runs like a dream and is really quite. Regardless of your choice, hope yours does as well.
Good luck and safe travels.
Bill
Keystone is owned by Thor. Thor owns several brands. Check out Thor's website to see everything they handle. It is a lot.
http://www.thorindustries.com/home/
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Sunday 30th of January 2011 06:51:16 PM
-- Edited by Racerguy on Sunday 30th of January 2011 07:55:11 PM
I understand the value of having a MDT or HDT to tow a heavy FW, and I agree with that logic. The question, though, comes up about what do you drive from the campsite to see the area, go shopping, etc.? Somehow I find it difficult to see that Volvo in the church parking lot, for instance.
I know there are a few who have a sturdy truck for a tow vehicle and a smaller car for running around. That means that both vehicles have to be driven from one campsite to another, and that means that neither one of us has a navigator. I've seen pictures of trucks with a Smart parked on it ahead of the FW. How practical is that?
My concern is that all of this could easily spiral out of control. I'm reminded of an article I read in Flying many years ago. For $10,000 one could buy a new Cessna 150, or a 172 that was only a few years old. One could also buy a slightly older 182, or a somewhat older light twin. The final plane in the string of $10,000 airplanes was a DC-3. The point was that one can always get a bit more capability, but at a price. Either you will pay more for it for the same age vehicle, or you will pay the same for an older vehicle.
I guess our desire is for us to have a two-part RV, not a three-part one. That means that if we go with a FV or TT the two vehicle will be our running-around vehicle, too. If we go with a MH, of course, we'll have a small car as a toad.
Experts, am I way off base here?