We are looking for both a used 5th wheel and a used Ford F350 diesel dually. (Yes, we're doing this a bit backwards - going to get the truck first and then look for a 5Ver that will be compatible.) Plan to start full-timing in April. We have children/grandchildren both in New England and in the mountains of British Columbia.
Our son in BC told us if we were going to come up there in the Winter (we DO love Winter), to make sure our truck had 4WD. It will depend on what we find for a 5ver we can afford. If we don't go in the Winter - but will still have to travel through the mountains when we do go - would 4WD still be a necessary choice? Just wondering if the 4WD would help pulling up mountains.
Have found a well-cared-for truck in our price range with everything on our requirement list except 4WD. Thus our question.
Thanks.
Mike/Gloria
Luvglass said
10:45 AM Jan 7, 2011
4WD is generally only used at slow speeds when you are on a very soft or slippery surface, like mud, or snow. We have it and have only used it 3 times in 5 years of full timing. I wouldn't get it again if we replace our vehicle.
Dual rear wheels would be a must have though, for the extra stability and carrying capacity.
Good luck!
thebearII said
10:55 AM Jan 7, 2011
Here's my two cents. There were only two times that I needed 4WD while towing my 5th wheel.
Both times was in campgrounds to get up a really steep hill. Actually 4WD wasn't needed but low range was and the truck would only go into low range if 4WD was engaged.
Out on the highway, I wouldn't travel if weather conditions were bad enough to require chains and or 4WD. It's just not worth the risk. However, I have travelled along an interstate following the snowplow.
As long as the road is clear, temperature above freezing and the sun has been out so there's no chance of black ice, I will travel. But if there's a chance of freezing or snow before I would reach my destination, I will wait out the storm.
If travelling on a dirt road or non-maintained road, I would park the 5th wheel somewhere safe and travel just in the truck and not try to pull the 5th wheel in muddy, slippery or snow drift conditions. Too much weight to try to control in those conditions even with chains and 4WD. There's a video on YouTube of a group of hunters travelling up to a hunting camp. One of the 5th wheels began to slide on a snow covered dirt road, the only thing that saved the 5th wheel and truck from going over the side of a 25 foot cliff, was a big tree the trailer slid in to.
For the little amount of time that I did or use 4WD, it doesn't make sense to have lower fuel mileage and more drivetrain to maintain. I got rid of the 4WD and chose 2WD for my trucks.
-- Edited by thebearII on Friday 7th of January 2011 11:18:12 AM
Bill and Linda said
01:01 PM Jan 7, 2011
A good but long asked question.
We have 4 wheel drive.I’ve used it, towing, maybe 4 times in the last 5 years.I’ve also used the spare tire just once in the last 5 years.But I still carry the spare tire.
It’s a personal choice, but for me it is like a spare tire and insurance, you don’t need it till you do, and then you need it really bad.
You will seldom need it in mountains as such.On paved road it isn’t necessary assuming no ice or snow, etc.When you need it, as was mentioned, is in soft sand, mud or the like, or when towing uphill on dirt or gravel.Many times it is need when backing the rig up as much as going up the hill.If you are in a campground with a gravel or sandy road going up a hill, and the rig is heavy, it may be very important as to controlling the rig safely.It was for me more than once.
So, if you can afford it, yep, get it IMO. It gives you once more tool in the tool box when needed.
Safe travels
Bill
Delaine and Lindy said
02:04 PM Jan 7, 2011
In the past we were Blessed to have owned 5 GM Trucks all had 4x4 option. Never used the 4x4 option while RVing. We try never to travel in cold weather. And will not travel when chains or 4x4 is needed.
We do no off roading and always stay in RV park with full service. We do no camping and no Wally Docking. If you plan on off roading or winter travel the 4x4 option would be a plus.
The other issue is its kinda hard to find a used Truck that isn't a 4x4. Reason being Dealerships normally order Trucks with lots of options, think money. Keep in mind the 4x4 option is more expensive and will cost more to operate a Truck with 4x4 option. Keep in mind also a 4x4 will weigh more than a standard 2 wheel drive. And if you do get into a situation were you need to pulled out, A tow once in a while, will cost thousands less.
But as anything else its a choice. I just went and rode the Freightliner for its weekly exercise and seen dozens of 4x4 here in Florida??? Good Luck with your choice....
Cindy T said
04:13 PM Jan 7, 2011
We boondock all the time in the mountains, so we tow our trailer on mud/gravel forest service roads on a regular basis. In these cases, 4WD has been helpful to get out of a slippery or steep location. But we've never used 4WD on a regular highway or even over a highway mountain pass. It's just not needed unless you're travelling in bad weather when it's icy or snowy. So needing 4WD probably depends on how/where you'll be using the trailer. If the roads are so icy/snowy/slick that you need 4WD just to get down the highway, you'd be better off to wait for more favorable weather.
Cindy T
Terry and Jo said
06:38 PM Jan 7, 2011
Well, I've not noticed in any of your posts, but I am going to presume that the tow vehicle will be your only vehicle, and that you won't have a second vehicle. If that is the case, and if your son says a 4WD is important, then keep that as a consideration, especially if it is going to be your only vehicle.
I do know that if you don't have enough weight in the rear of the truck, the truck will have a quicker tendency to spin the wheels, due to there being 4 rear wheels on the ground, thus not getting extra "rubber on the road".
I have personally had very little experience with a dually on snow and ice. The one time since we got our F450 that we had snow, it did just fine, but I haven't tried it on ice yet.
Since you are talking about spending winters in British Colombia (I assume that's what BC stands for), it may be more critical. A lot depends on how well the Canadians clear their roads.
Obviously, like the others, I wouldn't recommend towing a fifth wheel when it is slick. That is just asking for trouble.
Terry
Mike and Gloria said
07:50 PM Jan 7, 2011
Thanks, everyone, for your replies. No, we have no intention of actually traveling in storms. More concerned with getting up son's mountain if we go in the Winter. We're waiting on a call back from that son right now but generally I think we've decided to keep looking for one with 4WD. Did speak to our DIL and she reminded us that the paved road going up to their place ends about halfway up the mountain and turns into a dirt/gravel road. We'd forgotten that.
Yes, it will be our only vehicle so it better be what we need.
Thanks again for all the help.
Gloria
NorCal Dan said
09:39 PM Jan 7, 2011
All I know about 4WD is that when I need it, it sure is nice to have it.
I seem to recall a blog entry where somebody needed 4WD to get the rig parked, either it was wet and muddy and a slight incline, coupled with the angle of the truck to the 5'er, but they were not able to park the rig. Seems a neighbor helped them out with a 4WD truck. Point is, 4WD is not just about snow and ice. I've seen some 2WD trucks that have a hard time backing a rig into the site when the truck is at 45 degree offset from the trailer (or more).
I use 4WD on the beach, they allow vehicles to drive on the beach here in Washington. If I didn't have 4WD I wouldn't be out there. I've also used 4WD on GeoCaches in the Arizona desert.
Like I say, sure is nice to have 4WD...
Melstar said
12:06 AM Jan 8, 2011
Ok, here's my novice and not very informed and totally "green" story. We purposefully bought a 2WD in order to save money and mileage. We never intended to travel in snow or boondock....and we were told that we did NOT need 4WD for hills or mountains.
We live in Louisiana...lots of rain at times....the place where we wanted to park our 5er was low...so we had limestone brought in and DH spread and leveled it where he thought would be enough room to back the trailer in. Well, after a rain....and not enough width...he's backing it it and as he tried to pull up to even out the angle....low and behold he's stuck in the mud...on our OWN property!! :) Yes, at that moment we kicked ourselves for NOT getting 4WD. Had to call our mechanic to come pull him out. Very embarrasing....
Now, we may NEVER need it again.......hoping we don't and will try to avoid such situations.
Racerguy said
07:56 AM Jan 8, 2011
We were camping at a park in Klamath California and it had been raining quite a bit for about a week.The campsites were all nice level grass.One morning my neighbor was getting ready to leave pulling a 38 foot Alpenlite with a 1 ton single wheel Dodge 2 wheel drive.It would not move and we had to unhook him and dig him out.I hooked my 4 wheel drive dually up, put it in 4 wheel drive and got it out on the road without even spinning a wheel.My vote is for 4 wheel drive.
Bill and Linda said
10:08 AM Jan 8, 2011
I’ll make one more comment about the 4wd thing and mileage. Especially when you are towing the 4wd has an imperceptible impact on your fuel mileage and actually very little when running “Bob-tail.”It’s like the Pacific Ocean gaining a pint of water. It just doesn’t matter.Yes, there is some additional cost for the “oil change” for the transfer case.But that is so infrequent for most people it just isn’t all that significant in the big, long term picture over the life of the truck.
The only real question about 4wd, IMO that has significance, is the height of the truck.In general, 4wd does raise the truck height some and that may or may not be a determining factor for the 5’er as pertains to a level ride vs. bed rail clearance. I had our 5'er raised 3" and it and the truck run spot on level.(It’s never a factor for a tag trailer – I won’t bother with that long explanation here.I think we all know why.)But as outlined above in good comments, 4wd isn’t used all that much. But it is really a good thing to have at times when parking and especially when backing in some more challenging situations that you won’t expect.
So for the person considering it the only real question, IMO, is the purchase price and if you can afford it.The extra weight, etc. just really isn’t all that significant to the decision.And that decision, as always, is a personal preference based on your individual situation more than anything else.
Safe travels
Bill
Mike and Gloria said
11:03 AM Jan 8, 2011
Newbie here, Bill. What is 'Bob-tail'?
Gloria
2fortheroad said
11:29 AM Jan 8, 2011
We currently have SWD 4x4, if we stay with the 5ver the next truck will be DWD 4x4. As Fred said, more weight capacity and more stability.
But like George, I have helped our neighbor more than once because their dually couldn't move. I know that we all try to plan ahead, but sometimes we have to go regardless the conditions. Must be my truck driver mentality. I driven semis long haul for over 20 years, I just like being prepared for what might happen. You never know, there might not be a George around thats even willing to help out.
53 Merc said
11:54 AM Jan 8, 2011
Mike and Gloria wrote:
Newbie here, Bill. What is 'Bob-tail'?
Gloria
Without anything in tow.
Bill and Linda said
03:16 PM Jan 8, 2011
Mike and Gloria wrote:
Newbie here, Bill. What is 'Bob-tail'?
Gloria
Yea, sorry, shouldn’t use non-RV lingo on an RV website.It’s an old trucker’s term used when driving a tractor without a trailer.In another life, a long time ago as part of my primary job, I drove those “big rig semis” which were TV Mobile / Remote trucks that do stuff like the NFL telecasts.Not bad training to pull a 5’er. {Grin}
Bill
Mike and Gloria said
03:26 PM Jan 8, 2011
Thanks, Bill. Read your comment about your past life to Mike and he said "And he got paid for it." :)
We have definitely decided on the 4WD, dually, diesel, etc., etc. Might go with a Dodge 3500 with Cummins engine vs a Ford - looking at both on Tuesday in the Kansas City Area. Busy, busy.
Gloria
-- Edited by Mike and Gloria on Saturday 8th of January 2011 03:29:40 PM
Bill and Linda said
03:32 PM Jan 8, 2011
2fortheroad wrote:
We currently have SWD 4x4, if we stay with the 5ver the next truck will be DWD 4x4. As Fred said, more weight capacity and more stability.
For what it is worth, I can’t get over how much more stable the DRW truck is to the SRW.It’s like it’s on rails.I didn’t realize the difference until I drove one.Yea, a bit more expensive and they can be a pain sometimes when going shopping, etc.But the safety is just worth it.
Coming down out of Flagstaff this year on I-17 toward Phoenix I lost a rear inner dual.Not a blow out, it was a cut tire which was caused by a rock.Anyway, when I stopped at the rest area and did my normal walk around, checking all 10 tires, 6 on the Chevy and 4 on the 5’er, an inner dual was totally soft.However, the other tire carried the full load and didn’t blow. I had no idea from the cab that I had lost a tire.(Yea, yea, I know, put on Pressure Pro sensors.Well, they can be a problem as well and that’s a different discussion based on a different set of criteria between trailers and toads, etc., etc.) The point is, IMO, duals are safer in most all regards.‘Just a bit of saftey value add so to speak.
Our son in BC told us if we were going to come up there in the Winter (we DO love Winter), to make sure our truck had 4WD. It will depend on what we find for a 5ver we can afford. If we don't go in the Winter - but will still have to travel through the mountains when we do go - would 4WD still be a necessary choice? Just wondering if the 4WD would help pulling up mountains.
Have found a well-cared-for truck in our price range with everything on our requirement list except 4WD. Thus our question.
Thanks.
Mike/Gloria
Both times was in campgrounds to get up a really steep hill. Actually 4WD wasn't needed but low range was and the truck would only go into low range if 4WD was engaged.
Out on the highway, I wouldn't travel if weather conditions were bad enough to require chains and or 4WD. It's just not worth the risk. However, I have travelled along an interstate following the snowplow.
As long as the road is clear, temperature above freezing and the sun has been out so there's no chance of black ice, I will travel. But if there's a chance of freezing or snow before I would reach my destination, I will wait out the storm.
If travelling on a dirt road or non-maintained road, I would park the 5th wheel somewhere safe and travel just in the truck and not try to pull the 5th wheel in muddy, slippery or snow drift conditions. Too much weight to try to control in those conditions even with chains and 4WD. There's a video on YouTube of a group of hunters travelling up to a hunting camp. One of the 5th wheels began to slide on a snow covered dirt road, the only thing that saved the 5th wheel and truck from going over the side of a 25 foot cliff, was a big tree the trailer slid in to.
For the little amount of time that I did or use 4WD, it doesn't make sense to have lower fuel mileage and more drivetrain to maintain. I got rid of the 4WD and chose 2WD for my trucks.
-- Edited by thebearII on Friday 7th of January 2011 11:18:12 AM
A good but long asked question.
We have 4 wheel drive. I’ve used it, towing, maybe 4 times in the last 5 years. I’ve also used the spare tire just once in the last 5 years. But I still carry the spare tire.
It’s a personal choice, but for me it is like a spare tire and insurance, you don’t need it till you do, and then you need it really bad.
You will seldom need it in mountains as such. On paved road it isn’t necessary assuming no ice or snow, etc. When you need it, as was mentioned, is in soft sand, mud or the like, or when towing uphill on dirt or gravel. Many times it is need when backing the rig up as much as going up the hill. If you are in a campground with a gravel or sandy road going up a hill, and the rig is heavy, it may be very important as to controlling the rig safely. It was for me more than once.
So, if you can afford it, yep, get it IMO. It gives you once more tool in the tool box when needed.
Safe travels
Bill
Cindy T
I do know that if you don't have enough weight in the rear of the truck, the truck will have a quicker tendency to spin the wheels, due to there being 4 rear wheels on the ground, thus not getting extra "rubber on the road".
I have personally had very little experience with a dually on snow and ice. The one time since we got our F450 that we had snow, it did just fine, but I haven't tried it on ice yet.
Since you are talking about spending winters in British Colombia (I assume that's what BC stands for), it may be more critical. A lot depends on how well the Canadians clear their roads.
Obviously, like the others, I wouldn't recommend towing a fifth wheel when it is slick. That is just asking for trouble.
Terry
Yes, it will be our only vehicle so it better be what we need.
Thanks again for all the help.
Gloria
I’ll make one more comment about the 4wd thing and mileage. Especially when you are towing the 4wd has an imperceptible impact on your fuel mileage and actually very little when running “Bob-tail.” It’s like the Pacific Ocean gaining a pint of water. It just doesn’t matter. Yes, there is some additional cost for the “oil change” for the transfer case. But that is so infrequent for most people it just isn’t all that significant in the big, long term picture over the life of the truck.
The only real question about 4wd, IMO that has significance, is the height of the truck. In general, 4wd does raise the truck height some and that may or may not be a determining factor for the 5’er as pertains to a level ride vs. bed rail clearance. I had our 5'er raised 3" and it and the truck run spot on level. (It’s never a factor for a tag trailer – I won’t bother with that long explanation here. I think we all know why.) But as outlined above in good comments, 4wd isn’t used all that much. But it is really a good thing to have at times when parking and especially when backing in some more challenging situations that you won’t expect.
So for the person considering it the only real question, IMO, is the purchase price and if you can afford it. The extra weight, etc. just really isn’t all that significant to the decision. And that decision, as always, is a personal preference based on your individual situation more than anything else.
Safe travels
Bill
Gloria
But like George, I have helped our neighbor more than once because their dually couldn't move. I know that we all try to plan ahead, but sometimes we have to go regardless the conditions. Must be my truck driver mentality. I driven semis long haul for over 20 years, I just like being prepared for what might happen. You never know, there might not be a George around thats even willing to help out.
Yea, sorry, shouldn’t use non-RV lingo on an RV website. It’s an old trucker’s term used when driving a tractor without a trailer. In another life, a long time ago as part of my primary job, I drove those “big rig semis” which were TV Mobile / Remote trucks that do stuff like the NFL telecasts. Not bad training to pull a 5’er. {Grin}
Bill
We have definitely decided on the 4WD, dually, diesel, etc., etc. Might go with a Dodge 3500 with Cummins engine vs a Ford - looking at both on Tuesday in the Kansas City Area. Busy, busy.
Gloria
-- Edited by Mike and Gloria on Saturday 8th of January 2011 03:29:40 PM
For what it is worth, I can’t get over how much more stable the DRW truck is to the SRW. It’s like it’s on rails. I didn’t realize the difference until I drove one. Yea, a bit more expensive and they can be a pain sometimes when going shopping, etc. But the safety is just worth it.
Coming down out of Flagstaff this year on I-17 toward Phoenix I lost a rear inner dual. Not a blow out, it was a cut tire which was caused by a rock. Anyway, when I stopped at the rest area and did my normal walk around, checking all 10 tires, 6 on the Chevy and 4 on the 5’er, an inner dual was totally soft. However, the other tire carried the full load and didn’t blow. I had no idea from the cab that I had lost a tire. (Yea, yea, I know, put on Pressure Pro sensors. Well, they can be a problem as well and that’s a different discussion based on a different set of criteria between trailers and toads, etc., etc.) The point is, IMO, duals are safer in most all regards. ‘Just a bit of saftey value add so to speak.
Safe travels
Bill