As the title suggests, I am taking the risk of being accused of being the "Weight Policeman." But, so-be-it. Having driven everything from motorcycles to 18-wheelers, I know that there are definite safety issues when one's RV is running overweight.
Thus, I'd like to share the results of what a gentleman has found by weighing RV's at campgrounds and rallys. Keep in mind that these weights apply to DRV Suites models, thus we are dealing with pretty heavy fifth wheels. However, this will give an idea of the results of several years of his work.
This information was posted on a couple of websites that are either specific to DRV Suites products, or mostly DRV Suites. This is copied and pasted from one of those websites:
Thanks to Stacey Frank - Stripit
Stacey has weighed 99 Suites. Here is a synopsis. (rounded %) 16% MDT or HDT tow vehicle 51% DRW tow vehicle 32% SRW tow vehicle
100% SRW over tow vehicle GVWR (as posted on door tag)
60% DRW over tow vehicle GVWR (as posted on door tag)
28% Over tow vehicle axle (rear) rating (as posted on door tag) 24% Over tow vehicle tire capacity rating (as posted on tire)
40% Over trailer GVWR (as posted on manufacturer tag) 21% Over trailer tire capacity (as per manufacturer specifications) 11% Over trailer axle capacity (as per manufacturer specifications)
30% Underinflated tires for load (as per manufacturer specifications) 56% Underinflated trailer tires (as per manufacturer specifications)
I'm sure that you all know these, but I'll repeat them for those new to looking for RV's:
HDT = Heavy Duty Truck MDT = Medium Duty Truck
SRW = Single Rear Wheels DRW = Double Rear Wheels
GVWR = Gross Vehicular Weight Rating (Maximum for fully loaded vehicle, to include fluids, passengers, cargo, etc.)
Here is a link to a wikipedia explanation of truck classifications based on GVWR:
This gives an example of how many there are that are overweight, leading to a number of problems, not the least of which are blown tires, bent and broken spring hangars, and other issues regarding the truck drive trains themselves.
These numbers apply to people who should have known when purchasing that their brand of fifth wheels were already heavier than normal, but still managed to not take precautions in what they carried in their units nor what their tire pressures were. Plus, an underinflated tire is more dangerous as one adds weight to them.
I'm sorry, folks. Lets be safe with our vehicles. It isn't just us out on the roads.
Terry
Racerguy said
01:31 PM Oct 3, 2010
As long as you don't get outrageous about it like some of them on the Escapees site I see no reason people shouldn't at least hear information about safety.I believe in safety but do not agree with some peoples thoughts you need a semi-truck to pull a row boat.Keep the information coming Terry.
Terry and Jo said
01:40 PM Oct 3, 2010
Oh, YES, George.
Some of the Escapees folks almost get religious with their HTD's and how EVERYONE ought to have one. (Hey, maybe that is it. Maybe they ARE worshiping their trucks.)
While our F450 is technically classified as an MDT, it is at the lower end of that category since its GVWR is around 14,500 lbs. The mini-Freightliners and such usually come in at 26,000 lbs GVWR. While it would be nice to have one of those, especially with a 38-foot Mobile Suites, I couldn't justify nor desire to pay the price for one.
Terry
Racerguy said
02:05 PM Oct 3, 2010
Cost of MDT'S and HDT'S wasn't what kept me from considering one but Linda has a very bad back and sometimes has trouble getting into our Dodge. I just visited with a very nice guy here in North Carolina pulling a Mobile Suites with a Volvo.He actually paid less for the truck than I paid for my Dodge but had a Smart Car he carried so actually cost was a bit more. I could just see me driving a Volvo bobtail to Wal-Mart. My Cedar Creek GVWR is 13,850 lbs. and I am right there.My Dodge is rated at 24,000 GCWR and we scaled at 22,855 or therabouts.We were good on pin weight and axle weights but even with the weight cushion I have I would not tow any heavier with my Truck.It pulls good and more importantly stops very well also.
Readytogo said
05:21 AM Oct 4, 2010
Terry,
Your F450 is only rated 14,500 lbs? I thought they were rated higher than that.
GiniaJ said
06:11 AM Oct 4, 2010
We have a Chevy Silverado HD diesel truck but we also have a lighweight Award Classic 30 travel trailer that weighs very little (Canadian designed and meant to be lightweight) so no issues. We could pull a 5th wheel but wonder which one would be best for us? We may be looking for one within this next year, as our travel trailer has little storage and when full-timing, that is paramount.
As I type this, with hubby still asleep, I don't know what our truck weights, or anything about the weights of 5th wheels above 30 foot, but any experience in this would be appreciated. Any suggestions at all. We are very conscientious about weight issues and know that there are people out there dragging even travel trailers with too small of vehicles, making it dangerous for them and everyone on the road.
Racerguy said
06:22 AM Oct 4, 2010
Readytogo wrote:
Terry,
Your F450 is only rated 14,500 lbs? I thought they were rated higher than that.
I think what Terry was refering to was the trucks rating for the truck alone which includes the weight of the truck including fuel, passangers, cargo,fluids and trailer pin weight.Towing capacity is different and higher.He will explain probably better than I did soon.
-- Edited by Racerguy on Monday 4th of October 2010 06:24:09 AM
The Bear II said
07:59 AM Oct 4, 2010
A Burr Handy-Lift can be added to an MDT or HDT or RV to make it easier to get in and out.
We added one to our 5th wheel so my 91 year old Dad is able to go RVing with us. He gets in the MDT OK with my help, but getting into the 5th wheel was tough for both of us.
The Burr Handi-Lift has saved my back and made it a lot safer for him.
It's simple to install for anyone with some mechanical abilities. Basically just drill holes and mount it, plus simple wiring.
Here's the website:
http://www.burractuators.com/lifts/handy_lift.htm
The main reason I finally purchased an MDT is for safety. I was tired of worrying about the brakes on my 3500. By the time we would get to the bottom of a long 6% grade, I'd have little if no brakes on the truck or trailer. Even using first gear to go down hill. The trailer was just too heavy for the truck.
With the exhaust brake, the MDT will hold the rig at 55MPH on a 6% down hill. No need for brakes.
-- Edited by The Bear II on Monday 4th of October 2010 08:04:42 AM
rjenkins said
08:47 AM Oct 4, 2010
Hopefully this keeps within the topic at hand. I read in another forum that by 2013 all companies will have to list tow ratings based on a standard as defined by SAE. That's because manufacturers were coming up with some very loose interpretations of tow ratings and one of the reasons over the years on how towing capacity has been increasing. Here is an article where Toyota is going to start doing this two years early and thus its tow rating will actually go down. Let me add that I am not a Toyota guy (Ford man here), it's actually an article I found on this subject:
Would love to get some feedback from those with hauling and trucking experience in this forum. Your thoughts please.....
-- Edited by rjenkins on Monday 4th of October 2010 08:47:33 AM
-- Edited by rjenkins on Monday 4th of October 2010 08:50:10 AM
Terry and Jo said
09:18 AM Oct 4, 2010
Readytogo wrote:
Terry,
Your F450 is only rated 14,500 lbs? I thought they were rated higher than that.
As George (Racerguy) said, it is for the truck alone as far as GVWR is concerned. If you check out the link from wikipedia above, you'll find the F450 is a Class 4 vehicle. That puts it at the low end of the Medium Duty Truck classifications. As for Gross Combined Vehicle Weight (GCVW) rating, the F450 with the 4:88 rear end comes in at 33,000 lbs and a towing capacity of 24,600 lbs.
While it wasn't a fully loaded weight, we took the truck to a feed store and weighed all the different axles to give us an idea of how much we could put into the fifth wheel. At that time, truck and trailer combined came in under 26,000 lbs of actual weight.
Terry
Terry and Jo said
09:31 AM Oct 4, 2010
GiniaJ wrote:
We have a Chevy Silverado HD diesel truck but we also have a lighweight Award Classic 30 travel trailer that weighs very little (Canadian designed and meant to be lightweight) so no issues. We could pull a 5th wheel but wonder which one would be best for us? We may be looking for one within this next year, as our travel trailer has little storage and when full-timing, that is paramount.
As I type this, with hubby still asleep, I don't know what our truck weights, or anything about the weights of 5th wheels above 30 foot, but any experience in this would be appreciated. Any suggestions at all. We are very conscientious about weight issues and know that there are people out there dragging even travel trailers with too small of vehicles, making it dangerous for them and everyone on the road.
Jeanne,
If I can be of service, I'll be glad to render assistance. If your plans are to keep the same pickup, then you will need to find out what the weight capacities are of your truck. A dealership should be able to help with that, or one can perhaps find a "towing guide" that will help. What you need to know is the GVWR (Gross Vehicular Weight Rating) for the truck alone and GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicular Weight) ratings allowing for truck and trailer. "Gross" weights are weights of the vehicles with all things, fluids, passengers, cargo, etc that could be carried by the particular vehicle.
Should you decide that you want a fifth wheel that is too heavy for your particular truck, I suggest choosing your fifth wheel before buying a truck. That way, you can better choose a truck that will safely handle the weight of the trailer you buy.
In my experience, while a lightweight trailer is helpful for towing, should you get into a strong crosswind, the trailer can also be skewed sideways, leaving you vulnerable. Also, if you go to a fifth wheel, you will find it easier and safer to pull than a travel trailer. That is partially because the weight of the front of the fifth wheel is actually carried by all of the wheels of the towing vehicle. A travel trailer is putting most of its weight on the rear wheels alone. (I'm not sure whether equalization bars actually transfer weight. I haven't figured that all out yet.) Plus, the fifth wheels are easier to maneuver and back into campsites.
Terry
TXRVr said
10:48 AM Oct 4, 2010
Terry and Jo wrote:
I am taking the risk of being accused of being the "Weight Policeman." But, so-be-it.
I'm sorry, folks. Lets be safe with our vehicles. It isn't just us out on the roads.
Any good pilot knows that an airplane probably won't get off the ground if it is overgrossed. Controllability is also an issue if the weight isn't distributed correctly. There is pleny of accident data on pilots who ignore that.
That mindset comes with training and knowledge which isn't prevelant in the RV world. The data presented, especially the 100% SRW one, is a pretty good validator of that fact. It doesn't help that for salesman says.."oh yeah, you can pull this rig with your truck."
Poeple put fire extinguishers in their rigs, lock up the firearms, filter our water, flip circuit breakers before plugging in the power cord, and a host of others to insure safety, but don't give it a second thought about operating outside the envelope with an RV.
I'd like to think that RVer's don't do it on purpose, but they just aren't educated. I'm on your side Terry and "so be it."
Terry and Jo said
12:15 PM Oct 4, 2010
TXRVr wrote:
Any good pilot knows that an airplane probably won't get off the ground if it is overgrossed. Controllability is also an issue if the weight isn't distributed correctly. There is pleny of accident data on pilots who ignore that.
That mindset comes with training and knowledge which isn't prevelant in the RV world. The data presented, especially the 100% SRW one, is a pretty good validator of that fact. It doesn't help that for salesman says.."oh yeah, you can pull this rig with your truck."
Poeple put fire extinguishers in their rigs, lock up the firearms, filter our water, flip circuit breakers before plugging in the power cord, and a host of others to insure safety, but don't give it a second thought about operating outside the envelope with an RV.
I'd like to think that RVer's don't do it on purpose, but they just aren't educated. I'm on your side Terry and "so be it."
Since I'm risking criticism, regarding the bolded text above......
........REALLY?????
Sorry, weak moment and searching for humor on a Monday morning.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Monday 4th of October 2010 12:45:44 PM
Old Snipe said
01:39 PM Oct 4, 2010
Please don't come after me because I don't weigh the 154 lbs my motorhome manufactuer says I do. Wish I did!
Blame also has to go towards RIVA and manufacturers that set these weight standards. Seems that many RVs are "under built" in the first place to lower the sale price. That results in blown tires and bent axles, too.
How many folks would rather have a better built, higher weight carrying capacity right from the get go instead of having to upgrade tires, wheels and axles later, often after an under built tire has blown, taking out the trailer's wheel well?
Best Regards!
Gary said
01:40 PM Oct 4, 2010
All this information is great for those still in the research mode.
From all I've read and folks who I have talked to, there seems to be two things to remember.
1. Pick your rig first. This way you know the basic weight of the RV, pin weight, etc.
2. Get more truck than you need. If the max weight of the RV is 14K lbs, get something that can pull 17K. If the pin weight is 2500 lbs, get something that can handle 35-4000 lbs or more.
Tis always better to have too much truck than too much RV.
Hamshog said
03:29 PM Oct 4, 2010
Hey Terry,
Interesting percentages! By the chart, 60% of all vechicles are overweight per door sticker. That could be 100#'s or 3000#'s, but it would be good to know who of them have had any major problems with tires, springs, drivetrain, etc. and have had accidents attributed to being "overweight"?
I'm under on all my axles, truck and trailer, but over on my GCVWR & GVWR on the truck.
I'm sure many of them know exactly what their rig weighs, but don't go by the sticker, rather axle and tire ratings. Although I see some are over their tire ratings and axle ratings.
Interesting??
Regards, Howard
Readytogo said
03:42 PM Oct 4, 2010
Thanks George and Terry. We have an F350 DRW now and will be getting a MDT or an HDT eventually. Our RV is only 34' but being a New Horizon it is heavy. We know we are at the max weight limit.
dream reachers said
10:20 PM Oct 4, 2010
We did a great deal of research before buying either a trailer or tow vehicle. We purchased a 5ver that had a GVWR of 17500 so decided we needed at least a 450. A used Freightliner MDT became available so we purchased it. We hit the road May 31 '08 and our first main stop was RV Dreams rally in Branson Mo. We were weighed on individual wheels there. We found that we were overweight on the trailer by 400 # and overweight on the front drivers side trailer tire but we were under on the rear tire same side. We were able to move weight from the trailer to the truck to be correct on the trailer weight and we repositioned the pin hitch moving it down a bolt hole to put more weight on the back wheel thus correcting that problem. The MDT had penty of extra capacity. I found that even having a good axle weight I had been over on a wheel weight which many people out on the road don't even know. Following that weighin where I was within the correct weights on everything I still had 2 blow outs on my trailer because I was trying to wait until my tires were 4 years old to buy new ones. I bought all new ones after the second blow-out and have had no trouble with the tires since. The latest recomendation is changing tires after 3 years to be safe which I will do. Fortunately I had no significant damage to the trailer but I have seen and heard of many who have not been that fortunate. I had my truck and trailer weighed again this year at the GJRally and everything looked good.
TXRVr said
09:41 AM Oct 5, 2010
Terry and Jo wrote:
TXRVr wrote:
Poeple put fire extinguishers in their rigs, lock up the firearms, filter our water, flip circuit breakers before plugging in the power cord, and a host of others to insure safety, but don't give it a second thought about operating outside the envelope with an RV.
Since I'm risking criticism, regarding the bolded text above......
........REALLY?????
Sorry, weak moment and searching for humor on a Monday morning.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Monday 4th of October 2010 12:45:44 PM
OK Terry, now I'm only half on your side. More humor for a Tuesday am.
Luvglass said
11:13 AM Oct 5, 2010
In all this talk about tow weights and specifications and being over weight. please keep in mind the fact that the engineering profession is very CONSERVATIVE.
Engineers have legal liability when something they design fails to meet the published specifications, so they always over design their products. When something is specified to hold 1,000#, I guarantee you it will hold 3 or 4,000#. That is the nature of the profession.
I think that is the reason that many folks that have been in engineering, manufacturing, or a mechanical profession are sometimes not overly concerned if they are slightly over weight.
All of that is not to say, that the prudent thing to do is to stay within the legal framework. As Terry suggests, better safe than sorry.
rjenkins said
05:55 PM Oct 5, 2010
Good point to consider Luvglass. I remember my dad was a Civil Engineer and was building highways for most of his 55 years in the profession. I remember working with him one summer and we were laying out an exit on I-95 in the West Palm Beach area and he told me that the posted speed limits for the ramps were x mph when in reality they could handle up to y mph in a car(I don't want to quote the actual mileage he told me because my memory fails me but it was considerably more). He said it was to add that additional safety factor.
RonC said
02:51 PM May 30, 2016
I knew pretty much nothing about GVW or GCVW when we made our buying decisions. I went with a Ford F350 4x4 SRW 6.7 diesel because I thought that was "plenty" of truck ... the salesman for the 5er said a F250 would be fine. Anyway, the GVWR of our 5er is 15,000 and GVWR or our truck is 11,700 (Front GAWR of 5600 and Rear GAWR of 7000). Not exactly sure why Ford would allow 5,600 lbs on the front and 7,000 lbs on the rear (which total up to 12,600) yet only rate the truck for 11,700? Before anyone says "tires", the Michelins on it are rated @ 3750 lbs each in a single axle application @ 80 psi ... which is the pressure I run them. Based on tires alone, the rear axle should be able to carry 7,500, but is rated @ 7000. The GCVWR of the truck is 23,500. Yesterday I weighed the whole rig at a truck scale and this was the result ... GCVW (the whole thing) weighed 23,780 lbs distributed as follows: Front Axle 5220, Rear Axle 6820 and Trailer 11740 (this was with 50 gals of fresh water and empty waste tanks). I then weighed the truck by itself, which was 8980 lbs with a rear axle weight of 3880. This reveals a pin weight of 2940 and a total 5er weight of 14,680 lbs. So I'm OK on each truck axle, but over on the truck GVW (by 340 lbs). I'm also over on the GCVW by 280 lbs. The trailer has two 7,000 lbs axles and the tires are Goodyear G614's rated at 3750 lbs at 110 psi. So I have plenty of axle and tire rating to carry the trailer. The trailers GVWR is 15,000 and it weighs 14,680 so OK there. Every axle is under max and the trailer is under max, but I'm over on the truck GVW and over on the truck GCWR by 340 lbs and 280 lbs respectively). i seem to leaning on the truck a little. I could get everything under by draining the fresh water tank as I'm carrying about 400 lbs of water, but I really don't want to do that.
Fred ... I hope you're right about the engineers building in a little "extra" because it appears that I am borrowing some it. This is with 50 gals of fresh water and empty waste tanks.
I feel pretty good about these numbers, but looking for feedback ... I know I'm a little heavy, but not much. I intend to get each wheel weighed as soon as the opportunity presents itself. In the FWIW category, after towing for several hours at 65 MPH the tire pressure increases by about 14-15 psi and the temps are all lower than 100 degrees (on a 90 degree day). My logic says since all tires are within 3 psi of each other and all are increasing similarly in both pressure and temperature ... I'm thinking that the weight is pretty evenly shared by all 4 tires. It seems to me if I had a heavy corner, that I would see that in the tire pressure and temperature.
-- Edited by RonC on Monday 30th of May 2016 02:56:22 PM
-- Edited by RonC on Monday 30th of May 2016 02:57:18 PM
-- Edited by RonC on Monday 30th of May 2016 02:59:20 PM
-- Edited by RonC on Monday 30th of May 2016 03:00:40 PM
-- Edited by RonC on Monday 30th of May 2016 03:02:59 PM
-- Edited by RonC on Monday 30th of May 2016 03:33:59 PM
nineback said
05:35 PM May 30, 2016
My 2015 Dodge 3500 DRW is rated at 37,800 CGWR and a trailer rating on 29,000 lbs. The trucks GVWR is 14000 lbs. I believe the 14000 lbs is number Ram picked to keep the truck classified as a class 3 since the other ratings are better than the 450. Payload is around 5500 lbs which I believe it the limiting factor.
Tom
Terry and Jo wrote:
Readytogo wrote:
Terry,
Your F450 is only rated 14,500 lbs? I thought they were rated higher than that.
As George (Racerguy) said, it is for the truck alone as far as GVWR is concerned. If you check out the link from wikipedia above, you'll find the F450 is a Class 4 vehicle. That puts it at the low end of the Medium Duty Truck classifications. As for Gross Combined Vehicle Weight (GCVW) rating, the F450 with the 4:88 rear end comes in at 33,000 lbs and a towing capacity of 24,600 lbs.
While it wasn't a fully loaded weight, we took the truck to a feed store and weighed all the different axles to give us an idea of how much we could put into the fifth wheel. At that time, truck and trailer combined came in under 26,000 lbs of actual weight.
Terry
Glenn West said
06:49 PM May 30, 2016
We only have <$32k in our HDT and that is with custom bed with ET Hitch also. We haul our Smart on back. Smart is paid for and cost us <$7k, 2013 model. My dually was over 50k and rode like a sled. Had to bag it for the pin weight. Sold it and got money for bed and hitch. I have to look in camera to see if it is even behind me towing. Now not everyone tows my weight or have a 6k pin. But this is a sweet setup, comfortable and gets better fuel mileage than the dually. Lot less money also. <iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/glenn_west1/embed/slideshow/"></iframe>
-- Edited by Glenn West on Tuesday 31st of May 2016 08:58:17 AM
Howard said
06:52 PM May 31, 2016
Ron,
Once again, you are posting to a really old thread - last prior post in 2010 - and you addressed "Fred" who hasn't posted anything here since 2011. I'm closing this thread. Feel free to copy your post and paste it into a new thread. Please, I'm begging you, if the last post is over a year old, please don't "revive" the thread. It just takes a few seconds to start a new one. :)
Thus, I'd like to share the results of what a gentleman has found by weighing RV's at campgrounds and rallys. Keep in mind that these weights apply to DRV Suites models, thus we are dealing with pretty heavy fifth wheels. However, this will give an idea of the results of several years of his work.
This information was posted on a couple of websites that are either specific to DRV Suites products, or mostly DRV Suites. This is copied and pasted from one of those websites:
Thanks to Stacey Frank - Stripit
Stacey has weighed 99 Suites. Here is a synopsis.
(rounded %)
16% MDT or HDT tow vehicle
51% DRW tow vehicle
32% SRW tow vehicle
100% SRW over tow vehicle GVWR (as posted on door tag)
60% DRW over tow vehicle GVWR (as posted on door tag)
28% Over tow vehicle axle (rear) rating (as posted on door tag)
24% Over tow vehicle tire capacity rating (as posted on tire)
40% Over trailer GVWR (as posted on manufacturer tag)
21% Over trailer tire capacity (as per manufacturer specifications)
11% Over trailer axle capacity (as per manufacturer specifications)
30% Underinflated tires for load (as per manufacturer specifications)
56% Underinflated trailer tires (as per manufacturer specifications)
I'm sure that you all know these, but I'll repeat them for those new to looking for RV's:
HDT = Heavy Duty Truck
MDT = Medium Duty Truck
SRW = Single Rear Wheels
DRW = Double Rear Wheels
GVWR = Gross Vehicular Weight Rating (Maximum for fully loaded vehicle, to include fluids, passengers, cargo, etc.)
Here is a link to a wikipedia explanation of truck classifications based on GVWR:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_classification
This gives an example of how many there are that are overweight, leading to a number of problems, not the least of which are blown tires, bent and broken spring hangars, and other issues regarding the truck drive trains themselves.
These numbers apply to people who should have known when purchasing that their brand of fifth wheels were already heavier than normal, but still managed to not take precautions in what they carried in their units nor what their tire pressures were. Plus, an underinflated tire is more dangerous as one adds weight to them.
I'm sorry, folks. Lets be safe with our vehicles. It isn't just us out on the roads.
Terry
Some of the Escapees folks almost get religious with their HTD's and how EVERYONE ought to have one. (Hey, maybe that is it. Maybe they ARE worshiping their trucks.)
While our F450 is technically classified as an MDT, it is at the lower end of that category since its GVWR is around 14,500 lbs. The mini-Freightliners and such usually come in at 26,000 lbs GVWR. While it would be nice to have one of those, especially with a 38-foot Mobile Suites, I couldn't justify nor desire to pay the price for one.
Terry
Your F450 is only rated 14,500 lbs? I thought they were rated higher than that.
I think what Terry was refering to was the trucks rating for the truck alone which includes the weight of the truck including fuel, passangers, cargo,fluids and trailer pin weight.Towing capacity is different and higher.He will explain probably better than I did soon.
-- Edited by Racerguy on Monday 4th of October 2010 06:24:09 AM
We added one to our 5th wheel so my 91 year old Dad is able to go RVing with us. He gets in the MDT OK with my help, but getting into the 5th wheel was tough for both of us.
The Burr Handi-Lift has saved my back and made it a lot safer for him.
It's simple to install for anyone with some mechanical abilities. Basically just drill holes and mount it, plus simple wiring.
Here's the website:
http://www.burractuators.com/lifts/handy_lift.htm
The main reason I finally purchased an MDT is for safety. I was tired of worrying about the brakes on my 3500. By the time we would get to the bottom of a long 6% grade, I'd have little if no brakes on the truck or trailer. Even using first gear to go down hill. The trailer was just too heavy for the truck.
With the exhaust brake, the MDT will hold the rig at 55MPH on a 6% down hill. No need for brakes.
-- Edited by The Bear II on Monday 4th of October 2010 08:04:42 AM
Here is an article where Toyota is going to start doing this two years early and thus its tow rating will actually go down. Let me add that I am not a Toyota guy (Ford man here), it's actually an article I found on this subject:
http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2010/06/14/trailer-tow-rating-standards/
Would love to get some feedback from those with hauling and trucking experience in this forum. Your thoughts please.....
-- Edited by rjenkins on Monday 4th of October 2010 08:47:33 AM
-- Edited by rjenkins on Monday 4th of October 2010 08:50:10 AM
As George (Racerguy) said, it is for the truck alone as far as GVWR is concerned. If you check out the link from wikipedia above, you'll find the F450 is a Class 4 vehicle. That puts it at the low end of the Medium Duty Truck classifications. As for Gross Combined Vehicle Weight (GCVW) rating, the F450 with the 4:88 rear end comes in at 33,000 lbs and a towing capacity of 24,600 lbs.
While it wasn't a fully loaded weight, we took the truck to a feed store and weighed all the different axles to give us an idea of how much we could put into the fifth wheel. At that time, truck and trailer combined came in under 26,000 lbs of actual weight.
Terry
Jeanne,
If I can be of service, I'll be glad to render assistance. If your plans are to keep the same pickup, then you will need to find out what the weight capacities are of your truck. A dealership should be able to help with that, or one can perhaps find a "towing guide" that will help. What you need to know is the GVWR (Gross Vehicular Weight Rating) for the truck alone and GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicular Weight) ratings allowing for truck and trailer. "Gross" weights are weights of the vehicles with all things, fluids, passengers, cargo, etc that could be carried by the particular vehicle.
Should you decide that you want a fifth wheel that is too heavy for your particular truck, I suggest choosing your fifth wheel before buying a truck. That way, you can better choose a truck that will safely handle the weight of the trailer you buy.
In my experience, while a lightweight trailer is helpful for towing, should you get into a strong crosswind, the trailer can also be skewed sideways, leaving you vulnerable. Also, if you go to a fifth wheel, you will find it easier and safer to pull than a travel trailer. That is partially because the weight of the front of the fifth wheel is actually carried by all of the wheels of the towing vehicle. A travel trailer is putting most of its weight on the rear wheels alone. (I'm not sure whether equalization bars actually transfer weight. I haven't figured that all out yet.) Plus, the fifth wheels are easier to maneuver and back into campsites.
Terry
Any good pilot knows that an airplane probably won't get off the ground if it is overgrossed. Controllability is also an issue if the weight isn't distributed correctly. There is pleny of accident data on pilots who ignore that.
That mindset comes with training and knowledge which isn't prevelant in the RV world. The data presented, especially the 100% SRW one, is a pretty good validator of that fact. It doesn't help that for salesman says.."oh yeah, you can pull this rig with your truck."
Poeple put fire extinguishers in their rigs, lock up the firearms, filter our water, flip circuit breakers before plugging in the power cord, and a host of others to insure safety, but don't give it a second thought about operating outside the envelope with an RV.
I'd like to think that RVer's don't do it on purpose, but they just aren't educated. I'm on your side Terry and "so be it."
........REALLY?????
Sorry, weak moment and searching for humor on a Monday morning.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Monday 4th of October 2010 12:45:44 PM
Hey Terry,
Interesting percentages! By the chart, 60% of all vechicles are overweight per door sticker. That could be 100#'s or 3000#'s, but it would be good to know who of them have had any major problems with tires, springs, drivetrain, etc. and have had accidents attributed to being "overweight"?
I'm under on all my axles, truck and trailer, but over on my GCVWR & GVWR on the truck.
I'm sure many of them know exactly what their rig weighs, but don't go by the sticker, rather axle and tire ratings. Although I see some are over their tire ratings and axle ratings.
Interesting??
Regards, Howard
OK Terry, now I'm only half on your side. More humor for a Tuesday am.
I knew pretty much nothing about GVW or GCVW when we made our buying decisions. I went with a Ford F350 4x4 SRW 6.7 diesel because I thought that was "plenty" of truck ... the salesman for the 5er said a F250 would be fine. Anyway, the GVWR of our 5er is 15,000 and GVWR or our truck is 11,700 (Front GAWR of 5600 and Rear GAWR of 7000). Not exactly sure why Ford would allow 5,600 lbs on the front and 7,000 lbs on the rear (which total up to 12,600) yet only rate the truck for 11,700? Before anyone says "tires", the Michelins on it are rated @ 3750 lbs each in a single axle application @ 80 psi ... which is the pressure I run them. Based on tires alone, the rear axle should be able to carry 7,500, but is rated @ 7000. The GCVWR of the truck is 23,500. Yesterday I weighed the whole rig at a truck scale and this was the result ... GCVW (the whole thing) weighed 23,780 lbs distributed as follows: Front Axle 5220, Rear Axle 6820 and Trailer 11740 (this was with 50 gals of fresh water and empty waste tanks). I then weighed the truck by itself, which was 8980 lbs with a rear axle weight of 3880. This reveals a pin weight of 2940 and a total 5er weight of 14,680 lbs. So I'm OK on each truck axle, but over on the truck GVW (by 340 lbs). I'm also over on the GCVW by 280 lbs. The trailer has two 7,000 lbs axles and the tires are Goodyear G614's rated at 3750 lbs at 110 psi. So I have plenty of axle and tire rating to carry the trailer. The trailers GVWR is 15,000 and it weighs 14,680 so OK there. Every axle is under max and the trailer is under max, but I'm over on the truck GVW and over on the truck GCWR by 340 lbs and 280 lbs respectively). i seem to leaning on the truck a little. I could get everything under by draining the fresh water tank as I'm carrying about 400 lbs of water, but I really don't want to do that.
Fred ... I hope you're right about the engineers building in a little "extra" because it appears that I am borrowing some it. This is with 50 gals of fresh water and empty waste tanks.
I feel pretty good about these numbers, but looking for feedback ... I know I'm a little heavy, but not much. I intend to get each wheel weighed as soon as the opportunity presents itself. In the FWIW category, after towing for several hours at 65 MPH the tire pressure increases by about 14-15 psi and the temps are all lower than 100 degrees (on a 90 degree day). My logic says since all tires are within 3 psi of each other and all are increasing similarly in both pressure and temperature ... I'm thinking that the weight is pretty evenly shared by all 4 tires. It seems to me if I had a heavy corner, that I would see that in the tire pressure and temperature.
-- Edited by RonC on Monday 30th of May 2016 02:56:22 PM
-- Edited by RonC on Monday 30th of May 2016 02:57:18 PM
-- Edited by RonC on Monday 30th of May 2016 02:59:20 PM
-- Edited by RonC on Monday 30th of May 2016 03:00:40 PM
-- Edited by RonC on Monday 30th of May 2016 03:02:59 PM
-- Edited by RonC on Monday 30th of May 2016 03:33:59 PM
We only have <$32k in our HDT and that is with custom bed with ET Hitch also. We haul our Smart on back. Smart is paid for and cost us <$7k, 2013 model. My dually was over 50k and rode like a sled. Had to bag it for the pin weight. Sold it and got money for bed and hitch. I have to look in camera to see if it is even behind me towing. Now not everyone tows my weight or have a 6k pin. But this is a sweet setup, comfortable and gets better fuel mileage than the dually. Lot less money also. <iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/glenn_west1/embed/slideshow/"></iframe>
-- Edited by Glenn West on Tuesday 31st of May 2016 08:58:17 AM
Ron,
Once again, you are posting to a really old thread - last prior post in 2010 - and you addressed "Fred" who hasn't posted anything here since 2011. I'm closing this thread. Feel free to copy your post and paste it into a new thread. Please, I'm begging you, if the last post is over a year old, please don't "revive" the thread. It just takes a few seconds to start a new one. :)