How important do you think it is to have both a surge protector and a voltage regulator (transformer) as opposed to just voltage protection (High & low cut offs)?I’m trying to decide if I want to buy Progressive’s EMS-HW30C with surge & voltage protection or get Surge Guard’s separate surge protection and voltage regulation units.
Many thanks for your help, Sherry
Roz said
04:58 AM Jun 12, 2010
Although not inexpensive, I consider the one-time investment a good one. There are those who have never had a problem, but those that have often spend ten times or more on repairs than the protection.
Each time our Surge Protector shuts down the power or refuses to allow it upon plug in (few and far between), we know it is not an inconvenience but a tap on the shoulder that something was wrong at the pedestal.
Sherry said
06:37 AM Jun 12, 2010
My question isn't about the surge protection. I definitely plan to have that but am wondering how many folks have or recommend voltage regulation rather than just the voltage protection that comes with the Surge protectors from either Surge Guard or Progressive. The voltage regulator is a separate instrument and offered by the company that makes Surge Guard but not by Progressive as far as I can tell. Hope this makes my question clearer.
Sherry
bjoyce said
09:05 AM Jun 12, 2010
We have both. Most RVers do not have a voltage gauge plugged in to tell them what the campground voltage is so they have no idea if they are hitting low or high voltage. That means they have no idea if any of their electric or appliance problems were caused by low or high voltage. We have a Good Governor gauge and we have seen voltages under 100 volts or over 130 volts. So we have a Hughes Autoformer and a Progressive EMS. The all-in-one unit from Surge Guard looks good though the shape of it looks awkward. But if our Autoformer dies we will probably get one.
Campgrounds are not powered like your home electric so you can't trust the power.
Postalpair said
06:35 AM Jun 15, 2010
Sherry,
We have both and I would highly recommend getting both. Not sure if you are planning to go full-time, but you can run into plenty of strangely wired, weird voltage, etc. We actually had a surgue protector burn, but no damage was done to our rig. Needless to say, we bought a new surge protector right away. I hope this helps you....
Sherry said
07:19 AM Jun 15, 2010
Postalpair,
thanks so much for your information. I am planning to full time although I'm not sure that I wouldn't want to be protected even if I were a frequent RVer. Can you tell me what specific equipment you have and how satisfied you are with it?
Bjoyce indicated that he has Progressive and Hughes equipment but would replace it should something happen with Surge Guard's all in one. I've been looking for that but can't find it anywhere. I see the surge and voltage protection unit and a separate regulator but not a surge and regulator unit in one. I must be missing something.
Yes I saw the unit from Surge Guard that is a voltage regulator separate from the surge guard itself. I misunderstood and thought you meant that they had a surge guard/voltage protector all in one unit. The Progressive EMS and Surge Guard regulator are what I'm leaning toward. I'd love any feed back from anyone on those two. Sherry
Bill and Linda said
03:34 PM Jun 15, 2010
Hi Sherry:
My background has quite a bit to do with “electricity” so I offer this opinion with that background in mind.
You need a surge / voltage protection device like the Progressive Industries product – period - IMO.These devices protect you from low and high voltage and spikes or surges – call them what you will.They will also give you a 2 minute time delay before applying power after a power “bump,” which will protect the air conditioner / heat pump.(That’s in case the power comes and goes and mportant to protect the compressor.)
The EMS-HW30 is an excellent unit.I have the EMS-HW-50 with the remote read out.It pays for itself every time I connect the rig for a multiplicity of reasons not the least of which it helps me manage power when I’m on 30 amps due to the read out.(‘Haven’t tripped the 30 amp breaker in years.)
The Autoformer, sometimes incorrectly referred to as a “voltage regulator,” is a nice box. However, they are very heavy and are of less importance in my experience. (Haven’t needed one is the last 4 years.)This is a long discussion and has to do with voltage – amps and power.There is no free lunch and when you boost voltage you have to increase the amp draw (from the pole) to make the same power.So the short version is: it depends, so I won’t go into all that techo stuff.If you get one, it can’t hurt and might help occasionally.But I don’t carry one and that was specific decision based on what they weigh and how many times I might use it.
May I suggest you start with the EMS-HW30 (assuming your rig is a 30 amp rig) and see how that goes.You’ll be extremely well protected regardless and if the power goes too low, or too high, it will cut out before anything is “toast” inside.
Safe travels
Bill
Sherry said
04:08 PM Jun 15, 2010
This is great advice Bill and thanks so much for it. I think that's what I'll do. I had thought to get the Surge Guard version of the voltage regulator rather than the autoformer but I think I'll take your advice and just get the Progressive EMS-HW30 and let the voltage regulator go for now. Are you guys full time? I can hardly wait.
Just love this forum for all its knowledge, help and advice.
Sherry
Sherry said
04:12 PM Jun 15, 2010
FIVE points off my grade for not reading your footnote about "part time full timers". Would love to have that defined.
thanks again,
Sherry
bjoyce said
05:02 PM Jun 15, 2010
Sherry wrote:
Yes I saw the unit from Surge Guard that is a voltage regulator separate from the surge guard itself. I misunderstood and thought you meant that they had a surge guard/voltage protector all in one unit. The Progressive EMS and Surge Guard regulator are what I'm leaning toward. I'd love any feed back from anyone on those two. Sherry
I wasn't reading the descriptions right and thought it was a combination unit. Sorry. They want alot of money for that thing and still want you to buy their other unit. Another "regulator"/booster unit come from Frank's Electronics (http://www.voltagebooster.com/).
Edit: I realized that I had the idea this was an all-in-one unit because an owner I met at a campground in Virginia said it was. I should have checked myself.
-- Edited by bjoyce on Tuesday 15th of June 2010 08:20:09 PM
Bill and Linda said
09:07 PM Jun 16, 2010
Sherry wrote:
FIVE points off my grade for not reading your footnote about "part time full timers". Would love to have that defined.
thanks again,
Sherry
Sherry:
Well the “Part-time Full-timers” thing is sort of a little bit of a joke between Howard and Linda and “my Linda” and me.
Our family, Mom and Dad, full timed for almost 30 years in an Airstream and we tagged along with them in various trailers of our own.So we have long time experience with RV’s and the “full-time thing.” But with a family (children) we always felt we needed a "sticks and bricks" and don't regret that choice.Our choice, others may feel different and that’s fine for them.
Now we travel a lot, so much in fact we need to act like full-timers. But we still have a house because of the grandchildren and other family responsibilities that can’t be met by an RV in our opinion.
So we’re sort of “Full-time” but do it “Part-time.”We’re currently on a little multi-month trip to Alaska.
Hope that helps a bit.
Bill
NorCal Dan said
01:09 PM Jun 17, 2010
I have the portable 50 amp protection as seen here:
http://tweetys.com/portablesurgeguard120-240v50a50amp.aspx
My thinking is that this device monitors voltage and will shutdown power to the coach if either too high or low voltage is detected. They claim it will protect your devices from these conditions. The only difference I can see is that this device will shutdown power and the autoformers will boost or lower the incoming power to allow continuous power to your coach. You pay top dollar for that luxury.
In almost 3 years of full-timing I have not run into any over or under voltage conditions that would cause my surge guard to shut off power. But it's nice to know I am covered. I do have the inverter and generator if I need power so I opted not to buy the autoformer.
Bill and Linda said
02:16 PM Jun 17, 2010
NorCal Dan wrote:
I have the portable 50 amp protection as seen here:
My thinking is that this device monitors voltage and will shutdown power to the coach if either too high or low voltage is detected. They claim it will protect your devices from these conditions. The only difference I can see is that this device will shutdown power and the autoformers will boost or lower the incoming power to allow continuous power to your coach. You pay top dollar for that luxury.
In almost 3 years of full-timing I have not run into any over or under voltage conditions that would cause my surge guard to shut off power. But it's nice to know I am covered. I do have the inverter and generator if I need power so I opted not to buy the autoformer.
Paragraph one is correct and they actually work. I also agree with the “top dollar for this luxury” comment.
However, in my last 3 years I have had both low and high conditions on at least 5 occasions happen and the Progressive Industries “box” shut things down in time. The low voltage trip out condition will also many times save you from "blowing" a 30 amp breaker. (Due to voltage drops when there is excessive current.)
It was interesting the high voltage – up to about 138 volts – occurred late at night when the “load” on the park power reduced and naturally the voltage when up.But it went waaaay up.The office said yea, they had some complaints about that.This happen long after “lights out” and we wouldn’t have noticed until it was way too late.
Just another reason for having the EMS digital read out in the coach.The little $18 volt meters from Camping World are useless in this situation.
Safe travels
Bill
MartinStates said
07:05 AM Apr 10, 2011
Hi there, I've been reading as I had the same question as Sherry. What a great forum, thanks. I'm now leaning toward the EMS unit myself, however I still wonder if the Surge Guard hard wired unit http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/30-amp-hard-wired-surge-guard/18540 would do the same only you wouldn't have the remote monitor. I'd appreciate some comments on this if you don't mind. Janie and I are Escapees and Good Sam members, and full-timers, I think we'll be interested in reading more on the RV-Dreams pages. Thanks.
Bill and Linda said
07:25 AM Apr 10, 2011
MartinStates wrote:
Hi there, I've been reading as I had the same question as Sherry. What a great forum, thanks. I'm now leaning toward the EMS unit myself, however I still wonder if the Surge Guard hard wired unit http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/30-amp-hard-wired-surge-guard/18540 would do the same only you wouldn't have the remote monitor. I'd appreciate some comments on this if you don't mind. Janie and I are Escapees and Good Sam members, and full-timers, I think we'll be interested in reading more on the RV-Dreams pages. Thanks.
As you asked, the Surge-Guard is a good unit and will do a good job.Having said that, IMO, the EMS EMS-HW30C is somewhat better because of its specifications alone.I won’t go into “Joules,” but that is the number that says how much “surge” the unit can take while protecting the coach.(Big over simplification here)
I also comment on the remote read out:It can be extremely helpful when on marginal power (30 amp plug or not) when the voltage is not “solid.”(Drops way don’t when you turn something on) You can see exactly how many amps you’re pulling and also how close you are coming to the 103 volt cut off voltage.
When we have been on marginal power this has helped us know what we can keep on shore power and when we just must turn the fridge to gas; “no-you can’t run the microwave now,” and “let me turn off some stuff before you run the hair dryer.”Not being funny here.It saves tripped breakers among other things.Just part of the RV life!
Safe travels
Bill
NorCal Dan said
10:02 AM Apr 10, 2011
I went with the portable model for simplicity of installation more than anything else. The remote readout didn't seem like a must have item. My coach has an Smart EMS system that will manage power inside the coach when connected to anything less than 50 amp service. The Smart EMS and Magnum Inverter panel both show amp draw so having another display seemed redundant. The one downside to the portable unit is that it won't fit through the hole for the power cord (so I could leave it connected to the power cord all the time). I once forgot it at a park...luckily I called the park and had the manager grab it for me before someone else helped themselves to my $400 device!
If I had it to do over I would go with the permanent model...no chance to forget it, and, it could be hooked up to provide coverage from the generator as well as shore power.
RickandJanice said
06:13 PM Apr 10, 2011
I just asked our RV Tech. about his opinion of coach mounted surge protectors verses the plug in type. He mentioned something I had not thought about. The plug in type will protect the coach as long as the problem is at the pedestal, but if it is the power cord to the coach, it will not. That has me thinking of installing a coach mounted unit. Now just need to decide if I want one with the remote read out. We have a digital volt meter (plug in outlet type) already so do not know if the remote read out would be worth the additional cost. Any thoughts?
Bill and Linda said
08:25 AM Apr 11, 2011
RickandJanice wrote:
I just asked our RV Tech. about his opinion of coach mounted surge protectors verses the plug in type. He mentioned something I had not thought about. The plug in type will protect the coach as long as the problem is at the pedestal, but if it is the power cord to the coach, it will not. That has me thinking of installing a coach mounted unit. Now just need to decide if I want one with the remote read out. We have a digital volt meter (plug in outlet type) already so do not know if the remote read out would be worth the additional cost. Any thoughts?
The digital volt meter read volts – but not amps.You need amps to know for sure just how much you are drawing.The power management system is fine for what it does.Nothing wrong with it.However, it doesn’t really tell you how to manage what power you have in a poor power quality situation.It just turns things off shore power in so many words.
As to the RV tech’s comments: Yes, that’s true. If the cable to the coach "goes bad," or more likely has a problem with the plug connection to the wires, the coach mounted unit will better probext the rig.
Having the device inside the rig, and always there (you don’t have to put it on the pole and worry about it getting taken or left in the elements.) IMO is superior.
BTW, you didn't ask, but I recommend wiring the internal unit before the generator change over switch. That is, the short power cord goes direct to the EMS inside the rig, then from the EMS to the generator change over switch if there is one. That way you protect the switch as well as the rig.
My 2 cents
Bill
RickandJanice said
05:59 PM Apr 11, 2011
Thanks Bill, that was the information I was looking for. Your input on this topic has been very informative and helpful.
Waggin Tails said
06:48 PM Apr 27, 2011
This dialog peaked my interest since I am about a month away of purchasing my fiver. Do I need to have one for 50 Amp service and a 2nd one for 30 Amp service or will the 50 Amp unit monitor 30 amp connections as well? My fiver is geared for 50Amp service but I figure I will probably end up with 30 amp services along the way.
Bill Adams said
07:01 PM Apr 27, 2011
You buy the protection for the service available in your coach. So, if you have a coach with a 50 amp service you would need a 50 amp unit. The power source you use will be determined by what you plug into and the various step-down adapters for 30/20/15 amp service will send the service through that controller.
Waggin Tails said
07:50 PM Apr 27, 2011
Thanks Bill. That is what I was thinking. I believe I've reached research saturation.
-- Edited by Waggin Tails on Wednesday 27th of April 2011 07:50:59 PM
NorCal Dan said
09:20 PM Apr 27, 2011
This was the only image I could find that shows a surge protector that was hit by lightning. If this had been a perm mount in the RV I wonder what would have happened. Not trying to make a case one way or the other, but something to think about...
I like the information it gives regarding voltage, amps, etc.
This thing sure works, too! Last week we had power surges and our Progressive box shut us down several times due to high voltage. Turns out there was a problem at the local substation, so now we're fine after a couple of calls to the power company.
I highly recommend this unit. It is also available in 30 amp.
How important do you think it is to have both a surge protector and a voltage regulator (transformer) as opposed to just voltage protection (High & low cut offs)? I’m trying to decide if I want to buy Progressive’s EMS-HW30C with surge & voltage protection or get Surge Guard’s separate surge protection and voltage regulation units.
Many thanks for your help,
Sherry
Each time our Surge Protector shuts down the power or refuses to allow it upon plug in (few and far between), we know it is not an inconvenience but a tap on the shoulder that something was wrong at the pedestal.
Hope this makes my question clearer.
Sherry
We have both and I would highly recommend getting both. Not sure if you are planning to go full-time, but you can run into plenty of strangely wired, weird voltage, etc. We actually had a surgue protector burn, but no damage was done to our rig. Needless to say, we bought a new surge protector right away.
I hope this helps you....
Postalpair,
thanks so much for your information. I am planning to full time although I'm not sure that I wouldn't want to be protected even if I were a frequent RVer. Can you tell me what specific equipment you have and how satisfied you are with it?
Bjoyce indicated that he has Progressive and Hughes equipment but would replace it should something happen with Surge Guard's all in one. I've been looking for that but can't find it anywhere. I see the surge and voltage protection unit and a separate regulator but not a surge and regulator unit in one. I must be missing something.
Sherry
Hi Sherry:
My background has quite a bit to do with “electricity” so I offer this opinion with that background in mind.
You need a surge / voltage protection device like the Progressive Industries product – period - IMO. These devices protect you from low and high voltage and spikes or surges – call them what you will. They will also give you a 2 minute time delay before applying power after a power “bump,” which will protect the air conditioner / heat pump. (That’s in case the power comes and goes and mportant to protect the compressor.)
The EMS-HW30 is an excellent unit. I have the EMS-HW-50 with the remote read out. It pays for itself every time I connect the rig for a multiplicity of reasons not the least of which it helps me manage power when I’m on 30 amps due to the read out. (‘Haven’t tripped the 30 amp breaker in years.)
The Autoformer, sometimes incorrectly referred to as a “voltage regulator,” is a nice box. However, they are very heavy and are of less importance in my experience. (Haven’t needed one is the last 4 years.) This is a long discussion and has to do with voltage – amps and power. There is no free lunch and when you boost voltage you have to increase the amp draw (from the pole) to make the same power. So the short version is: it depends, so I won’t go into all that techo stuff. If you get one, it can’t hurt and might help occasionally. But I don’t carry one and that was specific decision based on what they weigh and how many times I might use it.
May I suggest you start with the EMS-HW30 (assuming your rig is a 30 amp rig) and see how that goes. You’ll be extremely well protected regardless and if the power goes too low, or too high, it will cut out before anything is “toast” inside.
Safe travels
Bill
This is great advice Bill and thanks so much for it. I think that's what I'll do. I had thought to get the Surge Guard version of the voltage regulator rather than the autoformer but I think I'll take your advice and just get the Progressive EMS-HW30 and let the voltage regulator go for now. Are you guys full time? I can hardly wait.
Just love this forum for all its knowledge, help and advice.
Sherry
thanks again,
Sherry
I wasn't reading the descriptions right and thought it was a combination unit. Sorry. They want alot of money for that thing and still want you to buy their other unit. Another "regulator"/booster unit come from Frank's Electronics (http://www.voltagebooster.com/).
Edit: I realized that I had the idea this was an all-in-one unit because an owner I met at a campground in Virginia said it was. I should have checked myself.
-- Edited by bjoyce on Tuesday 15th of June 2010 08:20:09 PM
Sherry:
Well the “Part-time Full-timers” thing is sort of a little bit of a joke between Howard and Linda and “my Linda” and me.
Our family, Mom and Dad, full timed for almost 30 years in an Airstream and we tagged along with them in various trailers of our own. So we have long time experience with RV’s and the “full-time thing.” But with a family (children) we always felt we needed a "sticks and bricks" and don't regret that choice. Our choice, others may feel different and that’s fine for them.
Now we travel a lot, so much in fact we need to act like full-timers. But we still have a house because of the grandchildren and other family responsibilities that can’t be met by an RV in our opinion.
So we’re sort of “Full-time” but do it “Part-time.” We’re currently on a little multi-month trip to Alaska.
Hope that helps a bit.
Bill
Paragraph one is correct and they actually work. I also agree with the “top dollar for this luxury” comment.
However, in my last 3 years I have had both low and high conditions on at least 5 occasions happen and the Progressive Industries “box” shut things down in time. The low voltage trip out condition will also many times save you from "blowing" a 30 amp breaker. (Due to voltage drops when there is excessive current.)
It was interesting the high voltage – up to about 138 volts – occurred late at night when the “load” on the park power reduced and naturally the voltage when up. But it went waaaay up. The office said yea, they had some complaints about that. This happen long after “lights out” and we wouldn’t have noticed until it was way too late.
Just another reason for having the EMS digital read out in the coach. The little $18 volt meters from Camping World are useless in this situation.
Safe travels
Bill
As you asked, the Surge-Guard is a good unit and will do a good job. Having said that, IMO, the EMS EMS-HW30C is somewhat better because of its specifications alone. I won’t go into “Joules,” but that is the number that says how much “surge” the unit can take while protecting the coach. (Big over simplification here)
I also comment on the remote read out: It can be extremely helpful when on marginal power (30 amp plug or not) when the voltage is not “solid.” (Drops way don’t when you turn something on) You can see exactly how many amps you’re pulling and also how close you are coming to the 103 volt cut off voltage.
When we have been on marginal power this has helped us know what we can keep on shore power and when we just must turn the fridge to gas; “no-you can’t run the microwave now,” and “let me turn off some stuff before you run the hair dryer.” Not being funny here. It saves tripped breakers among other things. Just part of the RV life!
Safe travels
Bill
If I had it to do over I would go with the permanent model...no chance to forget it, and, it could be hooked up to provide coverage from the generator as well as shore power.
The digital volt meter read volts – but not amps. You need amps to know for sure just how much you are drawing. The power management system is fine for what it does. Nothing wrong with it. However, it doesn’t really tell you how to manage what power you have in a poor power quality situation. It just turns things off shore power in so many words.
As to the RV tech’s comments: Yes, that’s true. If the cable to the coach "goes bad," or more likely has a problem with the plug connection to the wires, the coach mounted unit will better probext the rig.
Having the device inside the rig, and always there (you don’t have to put it on the pole and worry about it getting taken or left in the elements.) IMO is superior.
BTW, you didn't ask, but I recommend wiring the internal unit before the generator change over switch. That is, the short power cord goes direct to the EMS inside the rig, then from the EMS to the generator change over switch if there is one. That way you protect the switch as well as the rig.
My 2 cents
Bill
Thanks Bill. That is what I was thinking. I believe I've reached research saturation.
-- Edited by Waggin Tails on Wednesday 27th of April 2011 07:50:59 PM
http://www.decisivemagazine.com/travel/safety-and-security/hidden-danger-lurks-rv-owners
Sherry,
Here is what we have http://tweetys.com/electricalmanagementsystemportable50amp.aspx
I like the information it gives regarding voltage, amps, etc.
This thing sure works, too! Last week we had power surges and our Progressive box shut us down several times due to high voltage. Turns out there was a problem at the local substation, so now we're fine after a couple of calls to the power company.
I highly recommend this unit. It is also available in 30 amp.
Cheers,
Betty