At the rally it was mentioned that you should have a surge protector. I am beginning to look into it but i have some questions. 1.) Where did u get yours? 2.) Is it really neccessary? 3.) If i get one where the heck do i install(?) it? Thanks for your help.
Ray
Roz said
01:33 PM Apr 19, 2010
Greetings, Ray!
In my estimation, the cost of our Surge Protector is a very wise investment. I know of at least three occasions we may well have sustained expensive electrical damage to appliances, electronics and wiring.
To answer y0our question, there are two configurations - a hard wired model that is mounted within your RV. We opted for the one that simply plugs into the electrical pedestal and your RV shore power plugs into the Surge Protector. In six years, we have had no problem with anyone deciding it was theirs. We bought the lock to lock it to the unit, but have never used it.
These units are a bit pricey, but I would not plug into shore power without one. Camping World and other RV stores sell them.
Charles
igotjam said
03:27 PM Apr 19, 2010
Bought the same one as Charles. In 3 years it has shut us down in 3 parks. My guess is that this was a good thing but I don't know for sure. I have talked to folks who have lost their TV, microwave etc to surges but not at the 3 parks I had a problem with. One of the parks that gave me trouble was a high end Florida park (expensive) so it happens everywhere. The high end Florida park rewired half the park after my problem.
Bill and Linda said
03:35 PM Apr 19, 2010
RayK28 wrote:
At the rally it was mentioned that you should have a surge protector. I am beginning to look into it but i have some questions. 1.) Where did u get yours? 2.) Is it really neccessary? 3.) If i get one where the heck do i install(?) it? Thanks for your help.
Ray
Hi Ray:
IMHO, and from several experiences, yes it is “necessary.”Sometimes you won’t even know it saved your “bacon.”I’ll save you the “war stories.”
I got the Progressive industries unit.It is a hard wired in type.The EMS-HW50C and this one has a read out to tell you how much current you pulling.Very useful.
If you have a generator, this goes in the power line from the shore cord (inside the rig) just before the change over relay between the generator and the shore cord.If you know how, it’s pretty simple.If you don’t take it to an RV repair location, “Camping World” or alternately a local electrician can do the work.There are “instructions.” It’s only 3 wires in and 3 wires out with a ground.But if you are not familiar with AC voltage, don’t play with this. Get someone who “knows.”
If all the explanation above bothers you, you can get the plug in type Roz recommended and it will work.I just prefer this Progressive Industries unit because of better specifications, a read out to tell you about the voltage level and how much current you’re using. That’s especially great on a 30 amp plug when you don’t know just how close you are to tripping a breaker.They also have great telephone support.
Either way, now that you asked, I really recommend getting one in spite of the cost.
Bill
Luvglass said
06:09 PM Apr 19, 2010
I guess someone has to take the contrarian position, and it's me.
We've been out over 4 years now, almost 275 campgrounds in 49 states, Canada, Mexico and Alaska and have never had a problem. We bought a portable one when we went to Mexico and used it a few times for no reason apparently. It's been stored away somewhere ever since.
I really think the problem with wildly varying campground voltage is a thing of the past, and yet the stories and fear endure. Our TV's, microwave, and computers are still working after 4 years unprotected.
But then again, I've always been a risk taker.
TxYellowRose said
06:18 PM Apr 19, 2010
I am glad to see this thread. I am just about to the point of ordering a surge protector for our 5er and am looking at the portable ones. I really feel the cost would well outweigh the expense of having to repair damage or replace items in case of a problem.
Cheers!
Jim01 said
06:13 AM Apr 20, 2010
Take it from someone who knows first hand.
Buy a surge protector!!!
We bought one from Progressive Industries after we had a lot of damage from a surge. We've been very pleased with it and it has saved us from having damage again, quite a few times. We purchased the portable one as it would have been very difficult to hard wire one into our system on our MH.
Oh, and think about a TV coaxial cable surge protector too, for when you are hooked up to a parks cable TV. We had lightning come in on that too. and it fried our TV antenna/cable/VCR control box and the amplifier head on our antenna.
Jim
Old Snipe said
09:08 AM Apr 20, 2010
If you don't want to spend the big bucks but have at least some protection from a surge or a lightning strike, you might want to take a look at one of these:
They are sort of a fuse, if a surge occurs, they'll burn out, but protect you electrical system. A throw away, but cheap insurance.
Best Regards!
-- Edited by Old Snipe on Tuesday 20th of April 2010 09:08:29 AM
phyllen said
11:55 AM Apr 20, 2010
We got ours from Camping World. Saved us more than once. It is hardwired.
Just last month we were working a project with NOMADS at a junior college in Texas. The electric coming from the college was such that the surge protector shut us down several times.
Well worth the cost for sure.
rheadabovewater said
12:08 PM Apr 20, 2010
Jim, from the first paragraph of your post - what kind of damage did you have?
-- Edited by rheadabovewater on Tuesday 20th of April 2010 12:10:02 PM
Mallo said
12:51 PM Apr 20, 2010
We bought the Progressive Industries model and think it's the best on the market very fast reaction to changes in voltage or ground.
We've had it kick in for bad ground (motorhome next to us had issues with that one lost their inverter)
We've had it kick in for low voltage (which is hard on the AC) in the summer.
And down in Mississippi we had it kick in because the voltage went up to 134.
Now would any of this for sure caused us an issue? Not for sure the problem is my job requires Cell Phone and Internet access.
So I have the cell to keep charged, the cradle point router, two laptops, and the actual air card all have to be up and running for me to keep my job. Yep any of this stuff can be quickly replaced (OK the active customer data would be problematic but beyond that) yet why risk it? I'd rather have the short down time from stopping a surge or even the long term down time from a ground issue (which in one case required us to change campgrounds.) Over the phone call to work "ship me a new lap top the campground here in Texas just toasted mine to a medium well."
Just one mans opinion....
Mallo
Jim01 said
04:18 PM Apr 20, 2010
Roberta,
In our MH we have circuit breakers and a box just like in a six and brix house. It burned the wires in the electric cord plug where it plugs into the CG box, burned out 2 of the circuit breakers and welded them to the buss bar that they snap onto, burned out the circuit board on the refrigerator and melted other wires in the coach.
We think the neutral in the CG box burned out first and then caused 240 volts to go through the coach, but there was no way to prove that's what happened. Of course the CG said that there was nothing wrong with their wiring and refused to pay for any repairs.
Even though I was able to repair much of it myself, it still cost us a lot. Much more than the surge protector did. Plus, I worried for months about what other damage was done to wiring that we couldn't see.
All this happened after we had been full-timing for over 6 years without a surge protector and without any problems. It only takes one time.
Jim
foxriverguy said
06:11 PM Apr 20, 2010
Luvglass wrote:
I really think the problem with wildly varying campground voltage is a thing of the past, and yet the stories and fear endure.
foxriverguy wrote:
As recently as March, 2010, our Progressive Industries surge protector shut down when campground voltage dropped too low. It further identified an open neutral at the "spider box." Like the American Express card, we don't leave home without it.
TxYellowRose said
07:13 PM Apr 20, 2010
Last night I ordered the portable Progressive Industries surge protector from http://tweetys.com. That's one thing crossed off the list of what I consider must-haves!
Cheers!
sonicsix said
08:44 AM Apr 24, 2010
We have the EMS-30 permanently installed model. Was quite simple to install, just spliced the line between the outside plug and the converter, wired the EMS in at the splice. The instructions that came with the unit are very detailed and quite easy to follow. And let's not forget about Progressive Industries outstanding customer service should you ever need it.
-- Edited by sonicsix on Monday 26th of April 2010 06:50:59 AM
Dr Gonzo said
09:25 AM Apr 24, 2010
Good Morning Everyone!
Just a couple of dumb questions from someone trying to educate himself:
1. If I have 50 amp service in my rig then I buy a 50 amp surge protector and it protects the rig even if I have adapted the input to 30 amp provided by shore power?
2. "Old snipe" I went to the link you provided and it appears to be a fully serviceable surge protector - a Progressive Industries Smart Surge 50 amp protector - not a "fuse blower" and at a VERY good price. Have I missed something?
Any information would be helpful
Doc
igotjam said
09:41 AM Apr 24, 2010
DR Gonzo For #1 the answer is YES
Bill and Linda said
09:45 AM Apr 24, 2010
Dr Gonzo wrote:
Good Morning Everyone!
Just a couple of dumb questions from someone trying to educate himself: 1. If I have 50 amp service in my rig then I buy a 50 amp surge protector and it protects the rig even if I have adapted the input to 30 amp provided by shore power? 2. "Old snipe" I went to the link you provided and it appears to be a fully serviceable surge protector - a Progressive Industries Smart Surge 50 amp protector - not a "fuse blower" and at a VERY good price. Have I missed something?
Any information would be helpful
Doc
A Progressive Industries 50 amp protector will work with 50, 30 or even 20 amp services.In fact, with 30 and 20 amp service, it will do an excellent job of keeping you from tripping the 30 or 20 amp campground breakers if you overload them by tripping before they do.This has been my experience.(I can explain this if you’re interested, but didn’t want to start a long techno babble post in answer to an excellent question.)
These are excellent units and IMO are well worth the cost, especially the one with the readout to help you manage power when only 30 or 20 amps is available.They offer so much more than just “surge” protection and I can’t recommend them enough to really protect the rig and the all the electronics and appliances in them.
Bill
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Saturday 24th of April 2010 09:45:47 AM
mcw50 said
09:54 PM Apr 24, 2010
We, too, wouldn't leave home without a surge protector. Ours is the Progressive Industries one and is hard-wired. It has "saved" us many times in our ten years on the road...low voltage, high voltage, ground. We've had excellent customer service - even on weekends when we had trouble diagnosing problems even with the readings on the visual display. In the long run, we feel its worth the expense. You won't be sorry!
Mary
OFBG said
12:30 PM Apr 25, 2010
Hi Ray,
I purchased a 50A surge suppressor from Camping World. It is #34750 from TRC. This suppressor plugs into the 50A service and then you plug your shore line into it. I have quit using it because it has a 2 minute delay built into it. When you first plug it in it will not allow current to flow through it for 2 minutes. During this time it checks the power and setup to make sure all is okay. The problem is that every time the power flickers, it resets and stops the current for 2 minutes. As you know the power can flicker quite a bit if there is a storm moving through, an accident involving a power pole, even construction in the area. I don't know if other makes of surge suppressors have this issue or not. The device cost over $300 and now it just sits in a compartment. If it weren't for the delay I would never connect without it.
Bill and Linda said
12:57 PM Apr 25, 2010
OFBG wrote:
Hi Ray,
I purchased a 50A surge suppressor from Camping World. It is #34750 from TRC. This suppressor plugs into the 50A service and then you plug your shore line into it. I have quit using it because it has a 2 minute delay built into it. When you first plug it in it will not allow current to flow through it for 2 minutes. During this time it checks the power and setup to make sure all is okay. The problem is that every time the power flickers, it resets and stops the current for 2 minutes. As you know the power can flicker quite a bit if there is a storm moving through, an accident involving a power pole, even construction in the area. I don't know if other makes of surge suppressors have this issue or not. The device cost over $300 and now it just sits in a compartment. If it weren't for the delay I would never connect without it.
You can defeat the 2 minute time delay with the Progressive Industries unit (HW50C) if you care to.However, for information, the reason for the 2 minute time delay is actually to protect the Air-Conditioning unit.
Air-Conditioning compressors don’t care to be turnd off and right back on. It can damage them.So the 2 minute delay is to prevent a quick off and back on of the compressor if the power “flickers.”That said there is a jumper that can be changed by the end user to abort this delay if it is desired keeping in mind the “potential” damage to the Air Conditioning.(As I say, “Your Mileage May Vary.”)
Bill
Howard said
06:42 AM Apr 26, 2010
Hi Ray,
Well, you've gotten a lot of great information. Here are my answers to your questions.
1. We got a SurgeGuard hard-wired model at Camping World. They also have the plug-in models.
2. In our opinion, "Yes" it's necessary, unless you prefer to be a risk-taker like Fred who has been extremely lucky thus far. While we love Fred, in my opinion, his statement that "wildly varying campground voltage is a thing of the past" is way off.
We've been in numerous campgrounds where our SurgeGuard has shut us down due to low voltage situations. We've been shut down where we are twice so far. Now, were any of these situations such low voltage that they would have done damage? Maybe, maybe not. But it's fairly cheap insurance (around $400 or less for years' worth of peace of mind) and it saves me the trouble of checking the voltage and wiring at every pedestal since the device does it for me.
Last summer while working at a campground, on unseasonably hot days when all the RVs were running their air conditioners with their doors open, the campground circuits were overloaded and the voltage drop at each site was scary. We had to shut down sections of the campground and do rolling black-outs to protect the entire grid.
There are many, many campgrounds that can't handle everyone's air conditioners on at the same time or everyone's electric heaters on at the same time.
As for the two-minute delay when we get shut down, yes it can be annoying. But I'd still rather have it than not. Thanks Bill for the good explanation on that. Our model has a key where we can override the protection to keep from being shut down, but that sort of defeats the purpose. Of course, if we have iffy electric, we can turn our inverter on to keep everything running during a shutdown. But if the shutdowns are constant, it's time to move to another campground.
3. If you get a hard-wired model, you have to splice it into the main electrical line. We happened to have a good friend with electrical experience that did ours, but if not for him, we would have had Camping World or a dealer install it.
Of course, the easiest thing is to get one of the portable models that plug in directly to the pedestal. No installation necessary. Both SurgeGuard and Progressive Industries (the top two) have plug-in models.
NOTE: Both SurgeGuard and Progressive Industries have hard-wired models with remote indicators. These are good options for those that don't have any other type of voltage or load current monitors in their rigs.
Now, with all of that said, you have a motorhome if I remember correctly. Many motorhomes come with a power management system that performs the same functions as these "surge protectors with voltage protection". So, before all the motorhome owners go out and buy a device, check to see if you already have this electrical protection built in.
-- Edited by Howard on Monday 26th of April 2010 06:48:02 AM
darbyjudy said
09:10 PM Oct 21, 2010
Well I like a lot of others didn't think I needed a surge protector. This summer while camping in North Ga at a COE Campground we had a bad thunderstorm with lots of lightening and rain. The power went out and was out until the middle of the night. When I got up next morning and attempted to use the microwave it was dead. I went to the breaker box and found a tripped breaker, I reset it and the microwave then worked. Later in the week we were going to watch a DVD on the Sony receiver and found it would only show a trouble code. Then later we had moved to another campground in TN and I was setting up the dish antenna and found the digitable readout that shows the angle of the antenna would not work. So I ended up having to replace the Sony receiver and also the digitable readout for the dish antenna. If I would have had a surge protector I probably would have saved myself around $500.
So today I ordered one from Tweety , they had the best price . I got the progressive one.
Bill and Linda said
06:13 PM Oct 22, 2010
Very sorry for your trouble.Surge protectors / voltage monitors are like insurance, you don’t need them until you do.Mine has save the rig 4 times, from high power, low power, power leg imbalance and also surges – all in “top of the line” campgrounds.(Whatever top of the line means.)
May I suggest you read the manual carefully so you are familiar with how the device will react in different situations?It will tell you a lot about the power and also why it cut the power via the error code read out.Also, their tech support line is very good.They will get back to you if have to leave a message and they know their product.
Safe travels
Bill
Old Snipe said
09:42 AM Oct 26, 2010
This past weekend I hooked up at an RV CG and my Progressive Industries Surge Protector detected a problem with the electric and would not allow power into my MH.
The CG called an electrician who repaired the 50 amp circuit, one leg was dead. It was warm enough to run my A/C so I might have damaged it by running it with low voltage.
This is the first time in all my camping I had a power problem, but I'm glad I had the Surge Protector to do its job and save me from damaging my MH's electrical devices.
Best Regards!
Bill and Linda said
04:02 PM Oct 26, 2010
Well, last night, yet again, during an overnight in Oklahoma, I had one leg go up to 135 volts.The Progressive Industries surge / protection box cut the power and saved the leg that had the microwave on it – among other things.The other leg had 109, but that was within limits so I was able to “make do” without the generator for the evening.
The campground host was understanding of my report and said, “Yea, you’re on the one old transformer that hasn’t been changed out.”You see, you can have a problem on one row of sites and not the next.As I oft say, “it depends.”
I understand some have camped “for 35 years” without a problem and I’ve camped that long as well with and without electrical issues. It was just “back when” you didn’t have all the electronics and microwave ovens many do today.Back then just an AC unit (totally mechanical as to controls) and maybe a tube type black and white TV as far as the “electronics” were concerned.
Now, it’s just bit different. I just recommend considering a power monitoring device such as the Progressive Industries that handles over and under voltage protection as well as “surges.”This problem is one of my few “passionate recommendations” to those who travel.BTW, the campground we were in was a “big name” campground and was “working on the problem.”It can happen to anyone, anyplace.
Safe travels
Bill
Postalpair said
02:09 PM Oct 27, 2010
I just have to throw our 2 cents worth out here. We were at a nice campground in August in southern NY. 50amps, plugged in the surge guard....after the 2 minute delay we were up and going. Turned on the A/C and all was good. After about an hour I had to run down to the grocery store. When we returned, the trailer was warm and nothing was on. Went out to the pedestal and found our surge guard melted. Needless to say, we went to the office and told them what had happened. That's when they told us "I thought we got that electrical issue fixed". Duh??? All I can say is, Thank Goodness we had a Surge Guard. I can just imagine the damage that would have been done.....if not completely destroyed. The campground paid for the replacement of the surge guard, we packed up and boondocked that night and left the next morning for our destination. Don't camp without a surge guard, I know we never will !!! Safe Travels.......
nwtraveler said
07:44 AM Nov 21, 2010
I have the portable surge guard and even though I was
using it my problem was at the power connection at the
trailer. A loose neutral wire. So, even though I had
protection I still suffered the loss of several pieces of
equipment, ie: converter/charger, TV, stereo, printer
and UPS. Thankfully the UPS saved our laptops.
I would still recommend the surge protector even
though it didn't help me in this case.
Kim
bjoyce said
09:17 AM Nov 21, 2010
nwtraveler: You must have a 50AMP rig since a loose neutral willl cause the two legs to float and you will get 240volts. Surge Guards and Progressive EMS's only check for the neutral when you plug in since it is difficult to do once they let the current flow. Yes, it seems easy, just check the voltage, but I have been told it is a difficult problem and would make the units much more expensive.
Trabuco said
09:55 AM Nov 21, 2010
Based on all the reports above......a surge supressor is a no-brainer! It's on my list.
Gary said
08:10 AM Nov 22, 2010
Trabuco wrote:
Based on all the reports above......a surge supressor is a no-brainer! It's on my list.
Ditto ABSOLUTELY! I was debating until now. A good quality surge suppressor is now on the list of MUST haves.
kb0zke said
07:36 PM Nov 22, 2010
I just looked at the 30A portable unit from Progressive on the tweety's website. Looks good. Where is it made?
Jim01 said
06:06 AM Nov 23, 2010
The Progressive units are made in North Carolina, in the Raleigh/Durham area. I've been there, and they're really nice people.
Jim
Serengeti said
06:49 AM Nov 23, 2010
We have a 50 amp Progressive Industries Surge Protector that we bought and installed ourselves. We know for sure that it saved us several times, on time there was a lighting strike across the campground road where it shut us down, and nothing was damaged. Other units next to us were not so lucky. As for electrical systems in campgrounds being top notch is not really true. As we worked in a CG this past summer and at a point in time we had one of the circuits develop a short in the neutral and that can cause a lot of voltage spikes and drops. So don't always trust someone else.
Gary said
08:04 AM Nov 23, 2010
I know that this is probably addressed elsewhere but I don't have enough caffeine in my system to make a proper search!
With the Suppressor that is permanently mounted in the rig, I am going under the assumption that the power cord for shore power goes directly into the suppressor before it goes to any other items in the RV (like the fuse box for instance).
Thanks! These threads are very helpful in the learning/research process.
Bill and Linda said
01:25 PM Nov 23, 2010
Gary wrote:
With the Suppressor that is permanently mounted in the rig, I am going under the assumption that the power cord for shore power goes directly into the suppressor before it goes to any other items in the RV (like the fuse box for instance).
That’s correct.Outside power cable goes directly into the surge suppressor and the output of the surge suppressor goes to the power panel or, if installed, the change over relay for the generator.
Bill
Bill and Linda said
02:02 PM Nov 23, 2010
If I might clarify a term or two:The term being used many times, “Surge Suppressor” covers many different types of units and is sort of a generic term.
If you are wanting a unit to fully protect your rig against not only “surges,” like lighting, but also want low and high voltage protection (which is not a “spike”) “open neutral” protection – really important - open ground protection and other such important things, then you need to make sure you are getting such a unit.Such a unit will not cost “a $100.”
For example – Progressive Industries sells a “Surge Protector” – an SSP-50 for $129 (less other places.) It’s good for what it does.But it does not have high and low voltage, etc. protection. It is only good for spikes such as lighting.(I’m being kind of simplistic here.)It does a fine job of “spike” protection, but that is all it does and campgrounds have a lot more issues than "spikes" and those issues are more common.
Progressive Industries’ EMS-HW50C, the hardwired unit with remote display that has all the full feature protection I recommend (and protection you need in my opinion,) sells for $409 suggested retail price on their website.(It can be found for much less on the net.)Other manufactures can also provide this more complete type of protection, but they don’t cost “a $100” either.
Please be sure you are buying what you think you are buying by reviewing the specifications and don’t think you have found a “deal.”Just saying . . .
BTW, I have no connection (pardon the pun) to Progressive Industries.I just know the unit has saved my rig a number of times and has the best specs and features I could find.
Safe travels
Bill
Gary said
02:29 PM Nov 23, 2010
Thanks Bill. That was just the information I was looking for.
I knew it wouldn't be an inexpensive "fix" in this regard and I'd be rather skeptical if it were. Off the top of my head I was thinking $500.
Mainly, I want to protect the rig and everything that is in it as much as humanly possible.
I have lost onboard equipment from power surges when the camp ground we were at lost power during a storm. I believe it was when the power came back on that my equipment fried. I have had no problems since installing the Surge Guard.
Racerguy said
06:19 PM Nov 23, 2010
I have the same one Dan has. Wouldn't be without it.
kb0zke said
10:17 PM Nov 23, 2010
Thanks for all the good information. Based on what you all have said, we'll be getting a Progressive surge protector before we pick up our new mpg 181. Now, any suggestions for a model? The computer will be a laptop, and we're already used to disconnecting it whenever thunderstorms are in the area.
Gary said
08:26 AM Nov 24, 2010
Thanks for all the info! Another must add to the spreadsheet!
Bill and Linda said
09:43 AM Nov 24, 2010
kb0zke wrote:
Thanks for all the good information. Based on what you all have said, we'll be getting a Progressive surge protector before we pick up our new mpg 181. Now, any suggestions for a model? The computer will be a laptop, and we're already used to disconnecting it whenever thunderstorms are in the area.
Based the specs I found online for the 185 MPG “ . . .Detachable 30 AMP Power Cord . . .”, a 30 amp unit is appropriated. Personally I prefer the hardwired units that can be installed inside and “forgotabout.” Either of these provides the same quality of protection (same technology) so choose the one that better suites your style.
Ray
Greetings, Ray!
In my estimation, the cost of our Surge Protector is a very wise investment. I know of at least three occasions we may well have sustained expensive electrical damage to appliances, electronics and wiring.
To answer y0our question, there are two configurations - a hard wired model that is mounted within your RV. We opted for the one that simply plugs into the electrical pedestal and your RV shore power plugs into the Surge Protector. In six years, we have had no problem with anyone deciding it was theirs. We bought the lock to lock it to the unit, but have never used it.
These units are a bit pricey, but I would not plug into shore power without one. Camping World and other RV stores sell them.
Charles
Hi Ray:
IMHO, and from several experiences, yes it is “necessary.” Sometimes you won’t even know it saved your “bacon.” I’ll save you the “war stories.”
I got the Progressive industries unit. It is a hard wired in type. The EMS-HW50C and this one has a read out to tell you how much current you pulling. Very useful.
http://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems_hw50c.htm
You can purchase them from several places. I got mine from VIP Enterprises. However there are other sources.
http://www.progressiveindustries.net/wheretobuy.htm
If you have a generator, this goes in the power line from the shore cord (inside the rig) just before the change over relay between the generator and the shore cord. If you know how, it’s pretty simple. If you don’t take it to an RV repair location, “Camping World” or alternately a local electrician can do the work. There are “instructions.” It’s only 3 wires in and 3 wires out with a ground. But if you are not familiar with AC voltage, don’t play with this. Get someone who “knows.”
If all the explanation above bothers you, you can get the plug in type Roz recommended and it will work. I just prefer this Progressive Industries unit because of better specifications, a read out to tell you about the voltage level and how much current you’re using. That’s especially great on a 30 amp plug when you don’t know just how close you are to tripping a breaker. They also have great telephone support.
Either way, now that you asked, I really recommend getting one in spite of the cost.
Bill
I am glad to see this thread. I am just about to the point of ordering a surge protector for our 5er and am looking at the portable ones. I really feel the cost would well outweigh the expense of having to repair damage or replace items in case of a problem.
Cheers!
Buy a surge protector!!!
We bought one from Progressive Industries after we had a lot of damage from a surge. We've been very pleased with it and it has saved us from having damage again, quite a few times. We purchased the portable one as it would have been very difficult to hard wire one into our system on our MH.
Oh, and think about a TV coaxial cable surge protector too, for when you are hooked up to a parks cable TV. We had lightning come in on that too. and it fried our TV antenna/cable/VCR control box and the amplifier head on our antenna.
Jim
https://www.makariosrv.com/products/Progressive-Industries-Smart-Surge-Protector-50-Amp.html
They are sort of a fuse, if a surge occurs, they'll burn out, but protect you electrical system. A throw away, but cheap insurance.
Best Regards!
-- Edited by Old Snipe on Tuesday 20th of April 2010 09:08:29 AM
-- Edited by rheadabovewater on Tuesday 20th of April 2010 12:10:02 PM
We've had it kick in for bad ground (motorhome next to us had issues with that one lost their inverter)
We've had it kick in for low voltage (which is hard on the AC) in the summer.
And down in Mississippi we had it kick in because the voltage went up to 134.
Now would any of this for sure caused us an issue? Not for sure the problem is my job requires Cell Phone and Internet access.
So I have the cell to keep charged, the cradle point router, two laptops, and the actual air card all have to be up and running for me to keep my job. Yep any of this stuff can be quickly replaced (OK the active customer data would be problematic but beyond that) yet why risk it? I'd rather have the short down time from stopping a surge or even the long term down time from a ground issue (which in one case required us to change campgrounds.) Over the phone call to work "ship me a new lap top the campground here in Texas just toasted mine to a medium well."
Just one mans opinion....
Mallo
In our MH we have circuit breakers and a box just like in a six and brix house. It burned the wires in the electric cord plug where it plugs into the CG box, burned out 2 of the circuit breakers and welded them to the buss bar that they snap onto, burned out the circuit board on the refrigerator and melted other wires in the coach.
We think the neutral in the CG box burned out first and then caused 240 volts to go through the coach, but there was no way to prove that's what happened. Of course the CG said that there was nothing wrong with their wiring and refused to pay for any repairs.
Even though I was able to repair much of it myself, it still cost us a lot. Much more than the surge protector did. Plus, I worried for months about what other damage was done to wiring that we couldn't see.
All this happened after we had been full-timing for over 6 years without a surge protector and without any problems. It only takes one time.
Jim
As recently as March, 2010, our Progressive Industries surge protector shut down when campground voltage dropped too low. It further identified an open neutral at the "spider box."
Like the American Express card, we don't leave home without it.
Last night I ordered the portable Progressive Industries surge protector from http://tweetys.com. That's one thing crossed off the list of what I consider must-haves!
Cheers!
You can get the 30A model here.
-- Edited by sonicsix on Monday 26th of April 2010 06:50:59 AM
A Progressive Industries 50 amp protector will work with 50, 30 or even 20 amp services. In fact, with 30 and 20 amp service, it will do an excellent job of keeping you from tripping the 30 or 20 amp campground breakers if you overload them by tripping before they do. This has been my experience. (I can explain this if you’re interested, but didn’t want to start a long techno babble post in answer to an excellent question.)
These are excellent units and IMO are well worth the cost, especially the one with the readout to help you manage power when only 30 or 20 amps is available. They offer so much more than just “surge” protection and I can’t recommend them enough to really protect the rig and the all the electronics and appliances in them.
Bill
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Saturday 24th of April 2010 09:45:47 AM
You can defeat the 2 minute time delay with the Progressive Industries unit (HW50C) if you care to. However, for information, the reason for the 2 minute time delay is actually to protect the Air-Conditioning unit.
Air-Conditioning compressors don’t care to be turnd off and right back on. It can damage them. So the 2 minute delay is to prevent a quick off and back on of the compressor if the power “flickers.” That said there is a jumper that can be changed by the end user to abort this delay if it is desired keeping in mind the “potential” damage to the Air Conditioning. (As I say, “Your Mileage May Vary.”)
Bill
Hi Ray,
While we love Fred, in my opinion, his statement that "wildly varying campground voltage is a thing of the past" is way off.
Well, you've gotten a lot of great information. Here are my answers to your questions.
1. We got a SurgeGuard hard-wired model at Camping World. They also have the plug-in models.
2. In our opinion, "Yes" it's necessary, unless you prefer to be a risk-taker like Fred who has been extremely lucky thus far.
We've been in numerous campgrounds where our SurgeGuard has shut us down due to low voltage situations. We've been shut down where we are twice so far. Now, were any of these situations such low voltage that they would have done damage? Maybe, maybe not. But it's fairly cheap insurance (around $400 or less for years' worth of peace of mind) and it saves me the trouble of checking the voltage and wiring at every pedestal since the device does it for me.
Last summer while working at a campground, on unseasonably hot days when all the RVs were running their air conditioners with their doors open, the campground circuits were overloaded and the voltage drop at each site was scary. We had to shut down sections of the campground and do rolling black-outs to protect the entire grid.
There are many, many campgrounds that can't handle everyone's air conditioners on at the same time or everyone's electric heaters on at the same time.
As for the two-minute delay when we get shut down, yes it can be annoying. But I'd still rather have it than not. Thanks Bill for the good explanation on that. Our model has a key where we can override the protection to keep from being shut down, but that sort of defeats the purpose. Of course, if we have iffy electric, we can turn our inverter on to keep everything running during a shutdown. But if the shutdowns are constant, it's time to move to another campground.
3. If you get a hard-wired model, you have to splice it into the main electrical line. We happened to have a good friend with electrical experience that did ours, but if not for him, we would have had Camping World or a dealer install it.
Of course, the easiest thing is to get one of the portable models that plug in directly to the pedestal. No installation necessary. Both SurgeGuard and Progressive Industries (the top two) have plug-in models.
NOTE: Both SurgeGuard and Progressive Industries have hard-wired models with remote indicators. These are good options for those that don't have any other type of voltage or load current monitors in their rigs.
Now, with all of that said, you have a motorhome if I remember correctly. Many motorhomes come with a power management system that performs the same functions as these "surge protectors with voltage protection". So, before all the motorhome owners go out and buy a device, check to see if you already have this electrical protection built in.
-- Edited by Howard on Monday 26th of April 2010 06:48:02 AM
Very sorry for your trouble. Surge protectors / voltage monitors are like insurance, you don’t need them until you do. Mine has save the rig 4 times, from high power, low power, power leg imbalance and also surges – all in “top of the line” campgrounds. (Whatever top of the line means.)
May I suggest you read the manual carefully so you are familiar with how the device will react in different situations? It will tell you a lot about the power and also why it cut the power via the error code read out. Also, their tech support line is very good. They will get back to you if have to leave a message and they know their product.
Safe travels
Bill
Well, last night, yet again, during an overnight in Oklahoma, I had one leg go up to 135 volts. The Progressive Industries surge / protection box cut the power and saved the leg that had the microwave on it – among other things. The other leg had 109, but that was within limits so I was able to “make do” without the generator for the evening.
The campground host was understanding of my report and said, “Yea, you’re on the one old transformer that hasn’t been changed out.” You see, you can have a problem on one row of sites and not the next. As I oft say, “it depends.”
I understand some have camped “for 35 years” without a problem and I’ve camped that long as well with and without electrical issues. It was just “back when” you didn’t have all the electronics and microwave ovens many do today. Back then just an AC unit (totally mechanical as to controls) and maybe a tube type black and white TV as far as the “electronics” were concerned.
Now, it’s just bit different. I just recommend considering a power monitoring device such as the Progressive Industries that handles over and under voltage protection as well as “surges.” This problem is one of my few “passionate recommendations” to those who travel. BTW, the campground we were in was a “big name” campground and was “working on the problem.” It can happen to anyone, anyplace.
Safe travels
Bill
When we returned, the trailer was warm and nothing was on. Went out to the pedestal and found our surge guard melted. Needless to say, we went to the office and told them what had happened. That's when they told us "I thought we got that electrical issue fixed". Duh??? All I can say is, Thank Goodness we had a Surge Guard. I can just imagine the damage that would have been done.....if not completely destroyed. The campground paid for the replacement of the surge guard, we packed up and boondocked that night and left the next morning for our destination.
Don't camp without a surge guard, I know we never will !!!
Safe Travels.......
Jim
We know for sure that it saved us several times, on time there was a lighting strike across the campground road where it shut us down, and nothing was damaged.
Other units next to us were not so lucky.
As for electrical systems in campgrounds being top notch is not really true.
As we worked in a CG this past summer and at a point in time we had one of the circuits develop a short in the neutral and that can cause a lot of voltage spikes and drops.
So don't always trust someone else.
That’s correct. Outside power cable goes directly into the surge suppressor and the output of the surge suppressor goes to the power panel or, if installed, the change over relay for the generator.
Bill
If I might clarify a term or two: The term being used many times, “Surge Suppressor” covers many different types of units and is sort of a generic term.
If you are wanting a unit to fully protect your rig against not only “surges,” like lighting, but also want low and high voltage protection (which is not a “spike”) “open neutral” protection – really important - open ground protection and other such important things, then you need to make sure you are getting such a unit. Such a unit will not cost “a $100.”
For example – Progressive Industries sells a “Surge Protector” – an SSP-50 for $129 (less other places.) It’s good for what it does. But it does not have high and low voltage, etc. protection. It is only good for spikes such as lighting. (I’m being kind of simplistic here.) It does a fine job of “spike” protection, but that is all it does and campgrounds have a lot more issues than "spikes" and those issues are more common.
Progressive Industries’ EMS-HW50C, the hardwired unit with remote display that has all the full feature protection I recommend (and protection you need in my opinion,) sells for $409 suggested retail price on their website. (It can be found for much less on the net.) Other manufactures can also provide this more complete type of protection, but they don’t cost “a $100” either.
Please be sure you are buying what you think you are buying by reviewing the specifications and don’t think you have found a “deal.” Just saying . . .
BTW, I have no connection (pardon the pun) to Progressive Industries. I just know the unit has saved my rig a number of times and has the best specs and features I could find.
Safe travels
Bill
I have lost onboard equipment from power surges when the camp ground we were at lost power during a storm. I believe it was when the power came back on that my equipment fried. I have had no problems since installing the Surge Guard.