How/why would the decision on which tow truck to use be so hard to make?
We are pretty much settled on the fifth wheel we prefer and that being a Cameo 37KS3. We may have to adjust that some if we can find a super clean used unit but this is our target.
I have owned trucks my whole life and have had a few Ford and Dodge diesels. I now find myself scratching my head about a tow truck mostly due to the way I view the choices out there to choose from.
I prefer Ford trucks and have owned both the 7.3 and 6.0 diesals. I ended up having a bad experience with the 6.0 due to Ford not being able to correct the 6.0 engine issues in my last Ford truck. I guess that some would agree that the next generation diesel 6.4 from Ford fell short of being "the answer". Now the new answer is the 2011 Ford built diesel 6.7 and to add to my dilemma a first ever six speed automatic transmission that will be behind it.
I need some input from you folks that have and are towing simular riggs out there. I have never been a fan of anyones "first edition" when it comes to trucks. It appears to me that the twin turbo engine hasn't lived up to Fords expectations nor to their customers. I guess that the 6.0 fell by the way for the same reason. Will the new diesel/transmission follow suite?
I like the idea of the FL70 but boy that is a lot of money to spend on a tow truck. I have found dozens of 2007 and 2008 FL70's that are still being listed to sell as new and are priced up there very close to the "new" 2009 and 2010 models. I just assume that these units are out there due to slow sells but I also know that once purchased the 2007 model will then be a "new/used" three year old truck. Looking at used FL70's I find that they do not deprecciate much. Most used units that I have found are still above $70,000.00 and are several years old.
We are working through many of the same processes that most of you folks have gone through in getting to our goal of full-timing. I am "high centered" on this tow truck issue and need some help "clearing the trees" so that I can have something tangible to help me make a decesion.
I may be at a loss as to what truck to use for our full-timing but I do know that it is PARAMOUNT that we get the tow truck and fiver right the first time out.
Sorry to be so long winded!
Thanks for your help!
John & Tammy
Ray & Wendy said
09:23 AM Mar 30, 2010
Just remember, pre 2007 gets you one set of emission equipment and regs and pre 2010 gets you another set altogether.
Terry and Jo said
09:42 AM Mar 30, 2010
John,
I may not be of much help, but there are a lot of folks out there with the Ford 6.4 on at least 3 of the RV forums that I frequent. In truth, I don't recall seeing any negative posts on the 6.4 diesel with any of them.
Now, on the diesel and Ford forums, there may be some, but keep in mind that a lot of the people who frequent forums are there to complain.
If you check the "signatures" of those on the RV forums, you will find quite a few that are using them. Even the F450, which many complain about the fuel mileage, still shows up regularly where someone has a heavy fifth wheel.
Jo and I were comfortable enough to buy a used Ford F450 a few months ago. We figure that most of the miles that we will drive will be in our Explorer, so mileage on the F450 will be limited. We have ordered a Mobile Suites 38TKSB3 which weighs in at 18,500 GVWR, so something like the F450 is needed, especially since we didn't want to pay the price of even a used MDT. Ours is a 2008 F450 which had an asking price of around $36,000. A used mini-Freightliner (Sportschassis in particular) was going to be at least $90,000. I can buy a lot of fuel and pay service for that price difference, plus, it should be easier to find parts in many rural parts of the country in comparison to the MDT's.
At any rate, have fun looking.
Terry
johncrenshaw said
10:43 AM Mar 30, 2010
Terry & Jo,
Thanks for your quick reply and your first -hand knowledge on this subject.
One of my main concerns on the 6.4 is from reading about some of the repairs that require the cab of the truck to be removed for access to engine components. Even Ford mentions this in some of their promotions of the new 2011. Granted, this may be in the 250 and 350 units since they are smaller units than the F450 that you have.
There are a lot of forums out there that talk about the "lead turbo failures" on the 6.4. I know that Ford and International had a 'parting of company' over this latest version turbo diesel but maybe Ford was heading in this direction all along, thus the new 6.7.
All of this tends to add to my hesitation in making a decision. I do agree too that a lot of these forums end up being more of a "gripe pool' than helping others find workable solutions.
Thanks again for your help!
John & Tammy
johncrenshaw said
10:52 AM Mar 30, 2010
Point well made!
Thanks!
Racerguy said
12:00 PM Mar 30, 2010
Just to prove a point about the gripe forums. I'm a Dodge guy and went to the Dodge forum when they came out with the new 6.7 and 6 speed automatic. Page after page of many gripes but when you actually read and deciphered all the posts the guys with the complaints were almost always the ones who "hotroded " them or used them for more than they were designed for. Long story short I bought my 08 3500 dually anyway and have been extremely satisfied as it does everything I ask without a complaint.Of course I have stayed well within the limits the truck was designed for. For what it's worth I have read some articles on the new Ford Super Duty's and was quite impressed.
johncrenshaw said
12:27 PM Mar 30, 2010
Racerguy
I have to agree with the part about 'hot rodding' and then complaining when things go wrong.
I have had two 5.9 Dodges and still think that the Cummins is just about impossible to beat. I just haven't had any first hand experience with the newer engine/transmission.
I understand that the new Dodge 2010's have a whole new suspension and upgrades so maybe I need to visit that.
Are you running a regular dually bed or did you go cab and chassis and add a bed?
Thanks
John & Tammy
Racerguy said
01:41 PM Mar 30, 2010
John and Tammy,My first Dodge was an 01 5.9 and I loved it but was a 3/4 ton and not enough truck for my present rig.So far my 6.7 and 6 speed automatic is almost a day and night difference as far as power and torque range with the 4.10 rear and 6 speed.The factory exhaust brake is nice also.The only complaint I might have is empty weight fuel mileage.Towing a 14,000lb rig I get 10 to 10.5 MPG, but empty the best I get is 14 to 15.The 5.9 was way better empty. I went with regular pickup box and have plenty of clearance, (6 inches).
johncrenshaw said
02:49 PM Mar 30, 2010
Racerguy,
What do you see as the +/- on the factory bed vs a cab & chassis with an after market tow bed. If I am buying new, that would be the time to choose and there are probably more cab & chassis to choose from around here than the regular beds.
I have had several rv's through the years but all were TT's. I remember seeing more than a few factory beds that were either "pinched" on a dip/hill or worse yet where the fiver was just dropped because of a bad hook-up.
I know that the hook-up part does not get cancelled out by a non factory bed but.........
I would be ill for a long time if I screwed up my tow trucks bed. I am sure my insurance company would help me remember too.
Glad to see the 4:10 gears. About 90% of the 3500's around here run the 3:73. I had the 4:10's behind my first 5.9 and never had a minutes trouble out of the transmission or drivetrain. I have to think that the gears come into play at least a little bit when using the exhaust brake, lower gear/quicker slow down????
Thanks!
John & Tammy
Racerguy said
03:41 PM Mar 30, 2010
My choice would have been cab and chassis with the tow bed but got such a good deal on the pickup because of dealer going out of business I couldn't pass it up. My 01 had the little divit in the bed like you mentioned
ASMech66 said
05:24 PM Mar 30, 2010
We have an 09 Chevy 3500, No problem towing our fiver, when we get the new fiver, it will add about 4500lbs, I don't forsee any issues there either. If you can get over the Govt Motors Tag for GM products, the 3500 will pull the moon closer if you want, plus the dual wheels help with stability.
Dr Gonzo said
05:54 PM Mar 30, 2010
Johncrenshaw! G'day
Reading your original post leads me to believe that the motor is the primary measuring stick you are using in making your decision. If this is so I must agree with Racerguy - there is only one choice and that is a Cummins. It is the most versatile diesel available to the the tow vehicle market. It is the simplest and easieast to repair. It can generate the most torque with after market accessories. It gets the best mileage by far...it just comes in a Dodge! Some old liners simply can not get by that fact. I, myself, owned two Ford F150's prior to needing a one ton to tow a rig. My Ford buddies gave me a rough time about buying a Dodge and of course my answer was that I bought a Cummins. And, hey, guess what I have learned... Dodge is not that bad; in fact it is pretty good. For your future rig (Cameo 37KS3) I believe a 3500 with a 4:10 rearend is all you need. They now come stock with Jacobs brake. To make it bullet proof you might upgrade (not absolutely necessary but comforting) the transmission at BD Diesel. Just one guys point of view. Good luck in making your decision!
johncrenshaw said
06:31 PM Mar 30, 2010
Dr. Gonzo,
Thanks for the input!
Racerguy said
06:43 PM Mar 30, 2010
Actually the new Dodge 6 speed auto has been compared to the Allison especially if you buy the cab and chassis which uses the better Aisan 6 speed.
Dave Buck said
07:13 PM Mar 30, 2010
I've not really looked at the Dodge or the Chevy because I thought I would need at least a F450 to safely tow a 18-19K Fiver. Guess I need to look at the specs. for the Dodge.
Dr Gonzo said
07:34 PM Mar 30, 2010
I believe the dry weight of a Cameo 37KS3 is 12,833. I cannot find a GVWR but believe that the 3500 as oulined in my prior post can handle this rig. One can always go up a 4500 chassis cab.
Racerguy said
08:15 PM Mar 30, 2010
Dave, You are correct in thinking you need a F450 for something in the 18 to 19 k range.The Dodge maxes out around 16k.I scaled my combination last fall after the RV Dreams rally and came in at 22,215 lbs gross of my rated 24,000 lbs. There are people towing rigs that big with the Dodge but I think they are pushing their luck safety wise.
Luvglass said
09:02 AM Mar 31, 2010
The problems with the Ford 6.0 were eliminated by 05 from what I've been able to gather and from then on it was a reliable engine. My 06 350 with a 4:30 rear end has a GVWR of 13000# and is rated to tow up to 18,100# with a GCWR of 26,000#.
An option is to look for a low mileage 06 or 07 F350, and save yourself a pile of money. I think the GVWR of the new Cameo is about 16,000. You can call Carriage and get the actual spec.
Good luck,
Fred
Dave Buck said
11:54 AM Mar 31, 2010
Well, It looks like I go back to looking at at least a F-450 or start looking for a lighter RV. Not sure if the DW will go for something smaller though.
53 Merc said
12:59 PM Mar 31, 2010
Just depends on your budget. Do a search on Google for 2Ltrucks at Poole, TX. I betcha he has something you can like. I continue to drool over what he sells. It just ain't in the stars (or my budget either)
johncrenshaw said
01:21 PM Mar 31, 2010
Luvglass,
Thanks for the response and information on your truck. I was not aware that the F350's were running a 4:30 gear, just assumed that it would be a 4:10. I will keep that in mind while looking. I am sure that the differance in gears makes a big differance in how well it tows.
According to the folks at Carriage the GVWR is 16,000. The CCC is 2999. How close to that do most of you folks run? It doesn't take much fresh/gray/black water to take a big bight out of that number.
Again, thanks to all that have responded on this!
John & Tammy
Bill and Linda said
01:43 PM Mar 31, 2010
At the risk of getting flamed, which seldom happens on this forum, I think selecting a truck is a lot like selecting a mate; it just depends on your taste.Having said that . . . here is our opinion which is what you asked for.
We have a 2006, 3500 - DRW - Chevy Duramax / Allison.It has been, for the first 50,000 miles, trouble free. Most of those are towing miles.The transmission is smooth and arguably the Allison is bullet proof. It gets reasonable mileage solo (17.5) in spite of caring a lot of weight solo including the aux fuel tank. We get about 11+ on flat ground with the 38’ fiver. It is a dual rear wheel and we’re glad we have that – no question. Hills, mountains, what have you are just a non-event with the 3.73 rear end which is the “tallest” Chevy offers with the Diesel. It just doesn’t need the 4.X rear end gears others offer. All in all we love the truck. With the addition of a MOR-ryde RL suspension, it rides wonderfully.(I highly recommend this rather modest cost suspension upgrade from MOR-ryde to any leaf spring pickup.)According to my DW it is as quiet as a lot of gas engines, especially when towing – just kind of quietly thuds along at 1,600-1700 or so RPM.
Chevy will up the weight capability of the 3500 to 27,500 lbs GCWR for 2011. That is up 4,000 lbs. (Slightly less in a crew cab as that takes some of the capacity.) Basically the 2011 is a 4500 without having that designation.The engine and transmission will be beefed up even more as will the brakes, etc. and will have, like the new Ford, a built in “exhaust brake” system.That’s a really good thing although after market systems are available for both types.
The Ford for 2011 looks really good on paper and I would seriously consider one.But it will be a total “first of” for both the engine and the transmission.You have to take you own advice on that major issue as the Chevy 6.6L is being “upgraded” and has already, to most people, proven it’s metal as opposed to the some Ford engines which have been discussed here.Some were great, some not so good. We know nothing about the 2011 Ford engines or transmissions as to experience.My personal thought is they will be much better offerings than anything from the recent past Ford has offered.That’s a good thing as the engine and the transmission are what this is all about IMO.(That assumes acceptable weight capabilities naturally.)
Personally I will be seriously considering the 2011 Chevy 3500 based on my excellent experience with my 2006.If your trailer “requires” an F-450, with the attendant “tall rear end” due to weight, etc., then you have little choice.But my experience with the Chevy has just been excellent to outstanding.I am sure some with Fords will say the same thing about their truck.Good for them – glad they’re working well.But you asked for opinions and that’s just my 2 cents based on experience.
Safe travels
Bill
Luvglass said
04:53 PM Mar 31, 2010
John & Tammy,
The pounds do add up quickly. Our GVWR is 16,250 and I'm ashamed to say that after 4 years of full timing we are just slightly over 17,000 pounds. We added almost 3200# of "stuff".
Keep saying we have to clean house and get rid of a bunch of things that we haven't looked at since we came out, but it's always put off.
Dr Gonzo said
08:23 PM Mar 31, 2010
Bill,
Don't be shy to get "flamed" - it makes all discussion and debate more interesting! Johncrenshaw, if the GVWR is 16000 lbs then any of the Big 3's one tons can tow it. There are, however, certain truths that go beyond "choosing a mate" although I think loyalty to certain vehicles can be as emotional. They are as follows:
1. the size of the rear end does matter. It is as important as the power plant when towing.
2. I stand by what I said in my earlier post about the Cummins diesel engine - it is the simplest, easiest to repair, easiest to "after market", most versatile and cheapest to maintain.
3. The Allison transmission does have a huge reputation which it probably deserves. As my cousin (64 yr old GM guy who has never owned anything else) says for towing the best vehicle would be one that has an Allyson transmission coupled to a Cummins diesel.
4. and finally (and this is opinion) put it in a Ford - they look the best!
It is fun to RV - happy trails to everyone an hpoe we all meet around the campfire, perhaps at one of Howard's get togethers.
Bill and Linda said
08:32 AM Apr 1, 2010
Dr: Gonzo says: “Don't be shy to get "flamed" - it makes all discussion and debate more interesting!”Oh, I’m not shy - just don’t like to offend anyone’s “truck.”Those are fighting words to some.J
Anyway, I completely agree with the concept and have said so for years: Allison transmission, Cummins diesel (I can bear the noise – they do make some) with Ford styling and capacity.That is “the truck.”At least for those of us who don’t care to take a HDT to the store – I drove one – I don’t care to again.
I think (hope) the new Ford, including the transmission which even Ford has said publicly “is just as good as an Allison,” will be great.The “Scorpion” engine also looks good.Ford does (did at one time) know how to build a very good industrial engine.Too bad the design of the “Power Stroke” was made by committee at Ford and then outsourced.We’ll just have to see if they work as good on the road as they look on paper.Only time will tell. I am optimistic – but would have trouble buying this much “new stuff” in the first year of production.That’s a lot of mechanics to get right the first time.
Now, the GM Diesel is outsourced, sort of, as we know with Isuzu. But the “Duramax,” for the most part, has proven itself in the light and medium duty world which is the one most of us live in.With the significantly increased weight capability of the 2011 Chevy trucks (27,500 lbs) those now become real competitors for many of us with 5th wheels.Actually the 2011 “standard” 3500 Chevy, with a 3.73 rear, will now actually be somewhat “over rated” for many 5’ers – that’s a good thing
No question the Dodge, with the Cummins, is also a fine ride. But the transmission – some think otherwise unless it is a manual and those days are over.For me, 18 forward gears was 17 too many to shift.But that is a preference.But Dodges do very well for many who prefer the very fine Cummins engine.
All of this is what makes a truck purchase a bit more difficult to select - but fun.As I said, it is sort of like selecting a mate and that is a personal decision.If you are pleased with your choice, then good for you and enjoy the ride.
Safe travels
Bill
Dr Gonzo said
09:51 AM Apr 1, 2010
Bill,
I could not agree more with your last post. After I had posted my last post my DW thought I might have been rude which was not my intention. I am so glad that it did not offend.
Happy and safe travels!
Brian
Terry and Jo said
10:22 AM Apr 1, 2010
As usual, I always forget something when I am posting. I remembered a comment from a friend of ours about trucks that was stated a few years ago.
This friend is HEAVILY involved with horses, having ridden as Hunter/Jumper, Dressage, and also training for horse racing. She one time told us that if we were to go to a big "horse event", we would notice that most of the trucks used to haul heavy horse trailers would be Dodge and Ford trucks, with a scattering of a few larger GM models.
Now, having been a car salesman (yes, even a used car salesman), I am fully aware that a LOT of people have a love affair with their vehicles. I have owned or driven Ford, Chevy, GMC, and Dodge, although more in the 1/2 ton class than the heavier ones. All have their advantages, but we need to be careful to match as close as possible the towing vehicle to the "possible" weights to be handled.
I have known many who purchased a vehicle, only to find out that it just wasn't up to snuff for the load. That includes myself. I didn't keep that vehicle as long as I generally keep others. Each and every brand of vehicle/engine/transmission has the potential to include "loser" units. (I had a Chevy 1/2 ton p/u with the 350 engine need a new camshaft at 17,000 miles and an overhaul at 60,000. I still have difficulty going onto a GM dealership's lot.)
All in all, one needs to do their research and be sure and get a vehicle based on the gross COMBINED weight of the tow vehicle/trailer if we want to pull safely.
Terry
PS: Having confessed that I used to be a used car salesman, I hope that doesn't affect any credibility that I may have previously had.
Sorry.
53 Merc said
11:08 AM Apr 1, 2010
All is not lost. Found this site. If you are saddled with a Ford with a bad engine, go to http://www.fordcummins.com/ . Man, I wish my 6.0 would take a dive. I can fix it for a lot less than the price of a new truck. Still get to keep my Ford CC F250 SuperDuty Lariat with the TorqueShift transmission, but now, my dream would come true.
Bill and Linda said
12:30 PM Apr 1, 2010
Dr Gonzo wrote:
Bill,
I could not agree more with your last post. After I had posted my last post my DW thought I might have been rude which was not my intention. I am so glad that it did not offend.
Happy and safe travels!
Brian
Brian:
None taken I assure you.That’s what fun in a discussion – different thoughts – not absolutes.
Safe travels as well.
Bill
The Bear II said
02:10 PM Apr 1, 2010
John & Tammy,
Here's my experience in truck shopping a year or so ago.
I needed to replace my 1986 Chevy 1ton Dually Crewcab, it was falling apart all around me. My first choice for replacement was an HDT, second choice MDT and 3rd choice a 3500. I went to a local Freightliner/ IH dealer with the intent of test driving a couple of new and used HDTs.
The first HDT I chose to look at was a new one fully loaded with a nice sized sleeper. As soon as I opened the drivers door and started to climb in, I realized the truck wouldn't work for us. I knew I could make without a problem, but my DW & 91 year old dad would not without some assistance. I scratched the HDTs off of my list.
I began looking for a new 3500 GM dually crewcab with the duramax/allison combo. Could not find one. Didn't want to wait while one was being built. I moved on to used and found a few including one that was 2 years but looked like it had just left the showroom floor. The bed didn't even have a scratch in it. It was perfect. I drove it, there was something really wrong with the front end. It pulled hard to the right and something was banging over bumps. The dealer said they would fix everything. They didn't want to dicker the price so I walked.
I found another decent 3500 and was beginning to consider it when I spotted a C4500 MDT dually crewcab in front of the showroom. My DW and I test drove it, the dealer came way down on price, so we bought it.
The MDT is a near perfect tow vehicle. It pulls great, stops great and is very comfortable and quiet cruising down the highway.
Couple of problems with this MDT-
As soon as you hit rough pavement, train tracks or stress cracks the ride turns jarring. Even with air ride seats, cab and rear suspension you take a beating. Many C4500 & C5500 owners have replaced the front springs with a set from Deaver Springs and claim the ride improves 100%. If we drove the truck more often, I would have the springs replaced.
It's still a climb to get up into this truck. There are two steps from the ground up plus a tall 3rd step up into the cab. This last step along with twisting to get into the seat has caused sore knees for both me and my DW. In fact, after a week long trip with lots of sightseeing stops, I ended up having to use a cane for about 3 days, the pain was unbearable. I've gotten over it and have built up the muscles and tendons so now it's no longer a problem for me.
So that's my two cents..... I probably would have been happy with just a new 3500 but the deal I got on the MDT was hard to pass up.
Bill and Linda said
02:36 PM Apr 1, 2010
Larry:
Great outline on the C4500.You mentioned some of my concerns with the MDT to a “T”.It is a fine truck, I looked at these hard, but your take is extremely valid. That’s one of the reasons I am glad the 2011 3500’s will be in “4500” capability land as to specifications: more capability without having to “climb aboard” as such.
You mentioned ride. Along with the front end suspension modifications you suggested, have you considered a MOR-ryde RL for the rear end?I am pretty sure they fit the 4500 for a lot of reasons. (Fords / Dodge as well.)
We took our 2006 DRW 3500 “brand new” without so much as a hitch in it 750 miles to MOR-ryde.We got beat up a bit like in all DRW trucks without anything in them.On the way back, my DW said, “I don’t care what we paid for that new suspension, it was worth every dime. Good job.” It wasn’t expensive and it really did make an improvement well beyond just a little bit better. ½ day install. So I just wanted to share that with you for info.
How/why would the decision on which tow truck to use be so hard to make?
. We may have to adjust that some if we can find a super clean used unit but this is our target.
We are pretty much settled on the fifth wheel we prefer and that being a Cameo 37KS3
I have owned trucks my whole life and have had a few Ford and Dodge diesels. I now find myself scratching my head about a tow truck mostly due to the way I view the choices out there to choose from.
I prefer Ford trucks and have owned both the 7.3 and 6.0 diesals. I ended up having a bad experience with the 6.0 due to Ford not being able to correct the 6.0 engine issues in my last Ford truck. I guess that some would agree that the next generation diesel 6.4 from Ford fell short of being "the answer". Now the new answer is the 2011 Ford built diesel 6.7 and to add to my dilemma a first ever six speed automatic transmission that will be behind it.
I need some input from you folks that have and are towing simular riggs out there. I have never been a fan of anyones "first edition" when it comes to trucks. It appears to me that the twin turbo engine hasn't lived up to Fords expectations nor to their customers. I guess that the 6.0 fell by the way for the same reason. Will the new diesel/transmission follow suite?
I like the idea of the FL70 but boy that is a lot of money to spend on a tow truck. I have found dozens of 2007 and 2008 FL70's that are still being listed to sell as new and are priced up there very close to the "new" 2009 and 2010 models. I just assume that these units are out there due to slow sells but I also know that once purchased the 2007 model will then be a "new/used" three year old truck. Looking at used FL70's I find that they do not deprecciate much. Most used units that I have found are still above $70,000.00 and are several years old.
We are working through many of the same processes that most of you folks have gone through in getting to our goal of full-timing. I am "high centered" on this tow truck issue and need some help "clearing the trees" so that I can have something tangible to help me make a decesion.
I may be at a loss as to what truck to use for our full-timing but I do know that it is PARAMOUNT that we get the tow truck and fiver right the first time out.
Sorry to be so long winded!
Thanks for your help!
John & Tammy
I may not be of much help, but there are a lot of folks out there with the Ford 6.4 on at least 3 of the RV forums that I frequent. In truth, I don't recall seeing any negative posts on the 6.4 diesel with any of them.
Now, on the diesel and Ford forums, there may be some, but keep in mind that a lot of the people who frequent forums are there to complain.
If you check the "signatures" of those on the RV forums, you will find quite a few that are using them. Even the F450, which many complain about the fuel mileage, still shows up regularly where someone has a heavy fifth wheel.
Jo and I were comfortable enough to buy a used Ford F450 a few months ago. We figure that most of the miles that we will drive will be in our Explorer, so mileage on the F450 will be limited. We have ordered a Mobile Suites 38TKSB3 which weighs in at 18,500 GVWR, so something like the F450 is needed, especially since we didn't want to pay the price of even a used MDT. Ours is a 2008 F450 which had an asking price of around $36,000. A used mini-Freightliner (Sportschassis in particular) was going to be at least $90,000. I can buy a lot of fuel and pay service for that price difference, plus, it should be easier to find parts in many rural parts of the country in comparison to the MDT's.
At any rate, have fun looking.
Terry
Thanks!
For what it's worth I have read some articles on the new Ford Super Duty's and was quite impressed.
Reading your original post leads me to believe that the motor is the primary measuring stick you are using in making your decision. If this is so I must agree with Racerguy - there is only one choice and that is a Cummins. It is the most versatile diesel available to the the tow vehicle market. It is the simplest and easieast to repair. It can generate the most torque with after market accessories. It gets the best mileage by far...it just comes in a Dodge! Some old liners simply can not get by that fact. I, myself, owned two Ford F150's prior to needing a one ton to tow a rig. My Ford buddies gave me a rough time about buying a Dodge and of course my answer was that I bought a Cummins. And, hey, guess what I have learned... Dodge is not that bad; in fact it is pretty good. For your future rig (Cameo 37KS3) I believe a 3500 with a 4:10 rearend is all you need. They now come stock with Jacobs brake. To make it bullet proof you might upgrade (not absolutely necessary but comforting) the transmission at BD Diesel. Just one guys point of view. Good luck in making your decision!
You are correct in thinking you need a F450 for something in the 18 to 19 k range.The Dodge maxes out around 16k.I scaled my combination last fall after the RV Dreams rally and came in at 22,215 lbs gross of my rated 24,000 lbs. There are people towing rigs that big with the Dodge but I think they are pushing their luck safety wise.
Thanks for the response and information on your truck. I was not aware that the F350's were running a 4:30 gear, just assumed that it would be a 4:10. I will keep that in mind while looking. I am sure that the differance in gears makes a big differance in how well it tows.
According to the folks at Carriage the GVWR is 16,000. The CCC is 2999. How close to that do most of you folks run? It doesn't take much fresh/gray/black water to take a big bight out of that number.
Again, thanks to all that have responded on this!
John & Tammy
At the risk of getting flamed, which seldom happens on this forum, I think selecting a truck is a lot like selecting a mate; it just depends on your taste. Having said that . . . here is our opinion which is what you asked for.
We have a 2006, 3500 - DRW - Chevy Duramax / Allison. It has been, for the first 50,000 miles, trouble free. Most of those are towing miles. The transmission is smooth and arguably the Allison is bullet proof. It gets reasonable mileage solo (17.5) in spite of caring a lot of weight solo including the aux fuel tank. We get about 11+ on flat ground with the 38’ fiver. It is a dual rear wheel and we’re glad we have that – no question. Hills, mountains, what have you are just a non-event with the 3.73 rear end which is the “tallest” Chevy offers with the Diesel. It just doesn’t need the 4.X rear end gears others offer. All in all we love the truck. With the addition of a MOR-ryde RL suspension, it rides wonderfully. (I highly recommend this rather modest cost suspension upgrade from MOR-ryde to any leaf spring pickup.) According to my DW it is as quiet as a lot of gas engines, especially when towing – just kind of quietly thuds along at 1,600-1700 or so RPM.
Chevy will up the weight capability of the 3500 to 27,500 lbs GCWR for 2011. That is up 4,000 lbs. (Slightly less in a crew cab as that takes some of the capacity.) Basically the 2011 is a 4500 without having that designation. The engine and transmission will be beefed up even more as will the brakes, etc. and will have, like the new Ford, a built in “exhaust brake” system. That’s a really good thing although after market systems are available for both types.
The Ford for 2011 looks really good on paper and I would seriously consider one. But it will be a total “first of” for both the engine and the transmission. You have to take you own advice on that major issue as the Chevy 6.6L is being “upgraded” and has already, to most people, proven it’s metal as opposed to the some Ford engines which have been discussed here. Some were great, some not so good. We know nothing about the 2011 Ford engines or transmissions as to experience. My personal thought is they will be much better offerings than anything from the recent past Ford has offered. That’s a good thing as the engine and the transmission are what this is all about IMO. (That assumes acceptable weight capabilities naturally.)
Personally I will be seriously considering the 2011 Chevy 3500 based on my excellent experience with my 2006. If your trailer “requires” an F-450, with the attendant “tall rear end” due to weight, etc., then you have little choice. But my experience with the Chevy has just been excellent to outstanding. I am sure some with Fords will say the same thing about their truck. Good for them – glad they’re working well. But you asked for opinions and that’s just my 2 cents based on experience.
Safe travels
Bill
Dr: Gonzo says: “Don't be shy to get "flamed" - it makes all discussion and debate more interesting!” Oh, I’m not shy - just don’t like to offend anyone’s “truck.” Those are fighting words to some. J
Anyway, I completely agree with the concept and have said so for years: Allison transmission, Cummins diesel (I can bear the noise – they do make some) with Ford styling and capacity. That is “the truck.” At least for those of us who don’t care to take a HDT to the store – I drove one – I don’t care to again.
I think (hope) the new Ford, including the transmission which even Ford has said publicly “is just as good as an Allison,” will be great. The “Scorpion” engine also looks good. Ford does (did at one time) know how to build a very good industrial engine. Too bad the design of the “Power Stroke” was made by committee at Ford and then outsourced. We’ll just have to see if they work as good on the road as they look on paper. Only time will tell. I am optimistic – but would have trouble buying this much “new stuff” in the first year of production. That’s a lot of mechanics to get right the first time.
Now, the GM Diesel is outsourced, sort of, as we know with Isuzu. But the “Duramax,” for the most part, has proven itself in the light and medium duty world which is the one most of us live in. With the significantly increased weight capability of the 2011 Chevy trucks (27,500 lbs) those now become real competitors for many of us with 5th wheels. Actually the 2011 “standard” 3500 Chevy, with a 3.73 rear, will now actually be somewhat “over rated” for many 5’ers – that’s a good thing
No question the Dodge, with the Cummins, is also a fine ride. But the transmission – some think otherwise unless it is a manual and those days are over. For me, 18 forward gears was 17 too many to shift. But that is a preference. But Dodges do very well for many who prefer the very fine Cummins engine.
All of this is what makes a truck purchase a bit more difficult to select - but fun. As I said, it is sort of like selecting a mate and that is a personal decision. If you are pleased with your choice, then good for you and enjoy the ride.
Safe travels
Bill
This friend is HEAVILY involved with horses, having ridden as Hunter/Jumper, Dressage, and also training for horse racing. She one time told us that if we were to go to a big "horse event", we would notice that most of the trucks used to haul heavy horse trailers would be Dodge and Ford trucks, with a scattering of a few larger GM models.
Now, having been a car salesman (yes, even a used car salesman), I am fully aware that a LOT of people have a love affair with their vehicles. I have owned or driven Ford, Chevy, GMC, and Dodge, although more in the 1/2 ton class than the heavier ones. All have their advantages, but we need to be careful to match as close as possible the towing vehicle to the "possible" weights to be handled.
I have known many who purchased a vehicle, only to find out that it just wasn't up to snuff for the load. That includes myself. I didn't keep that vehicle as long as I generally keep others. Each and every brand of vehicle/engine/transmission has the potential to include "loser" units. (I had a Chevy 1/2 ton p/u with the 350 engine need a new camshaft at 17,000 miles and an overhaul at 60,000. I still have difficulty going onto a GM dealership's lot.)
All in all, one needs to do their research and be sure and get a vehicle based on the gross COMBINED weight of the tow vehicle/trailer if we want to pull safely.
Terry
PS: Having confessed that I used to be a used car salesman, I hope that doesn't affect any credibility that I may have previously had.
Sorry.
Brian:
None taken I assure you. That’s what fun in a discussion – different thoughts – not absolutes.
Safe travels as well.
Bill
Larry:
Great outline on the C4500. You mentioned some of my concerns with the MDT to a “T”. It is a fine truck, I looked at these hard, but your take is extremely valid. That’s one of the reasons I am glad the 2011 3500’s will be in “4500” capability land as to specifications: more capability without having to “climb aboard” as such.
You mentioned ride. Along with the front end suspension modifications you suggested, have you considered a MOR-ryde RL for the rear end? I am pretty sure they fit the 4500 for a lot of reasons. (Fords / Dodge as well.)
We took our 2006 DRW 3500 “brand new” without so much as a hitch in it 750 miles to MOR-ryde. We got beat up a bit like in all DRW trucks without anything in them. On the way back, my DW said, “I don’t care what we paid for that new suspension, it was worth every dime. Good job.” It wasn’t expensive and it really did make an improvement well beyond just a little bit better. ½ day install. So I just wanted to share that with you for info.
http://www.morryde.com/php/products/suspensions/tow_vehicles/RL.php
Safe travels
Bill
the 450 pulls good, i have a 2008 dulley, 6-4 pulling 13000 lb. went from fla to alaska, if you get one get extended warenty... good luck.