Just a heads up to those of you with DirecTv service. I called yesterday to change my service address like I have done multiple times in the past. I like to receive the local stations from where we are parked. Now I find out that DirecTv will no longer change your service address, for any reason.
This causes me a couple of problems. First, I won't be able to receive local stations via DirecTv when I am out of the spot beam for my service address. Depending on where we are this might not be a big deal if, and that's a big if, if we can pick up stations with the batwing. But a lot of the places we go you can't pick up anything on the crankup antenna.
Second, if you subscribe to mobile DNS, you will receive the DNS stations based on your service address. But, remember, you can't change your service address. So if your on the east coast, and receiving the east feeds of DNS, and you then move to the west coast, you won't be able to change to the west feed.
Now I know some of you are receiving both east and west DNS. If your lucky enough to be getting both then I recommend you never call DirecTv or change your programming package. Don't say I didn't warn you...
I will be doing my own research of the FCC rules. After talking to numerious DirecTv call reps I am not convinced they know what they are talking about and I want to educate myself on what the rules actually say...in the hope that I can find a solution to my problem. If anyone else feels like helping please drop me an email...
Happytrails said
08:32 AM Nov 30, 2009
Dan
Thanks for the headsup. We currently get both east and west feeds on DNS so we will be sure and not "rock the boat" in any way. I think that is a bad call on their part. Please let us know what you find out via FCC. We have just recently connected (completed the paperwork) to DNS since we started full-timing in August and began receiving the east/west stations about a month ago.
Mike
Luvglass said
11:29 AM Nov 30, 2009
All we've ever had for network TV since we came out is the east and west coast feeds on DNS and are very happy with that arrangement. It's nice to be able to catch a show later if we happen to miss it on the east coast time.
Aside from local weather we don't miss the "local" news anyway, since we're always moving around the country and don't have much feeling for any particular town. The NY and LA stations seem to have more complete world and national news also.
It's a great compromise for us.
NorCal Dan said
07:59 PM Nov 30, 2009
I re-submitted my waiver and am going to wait and see what happens. I will update this thread once I see how they "fix" my problem.
I just wanted to get this info out to the RV crowd, especially those who may be thinking about starting service in the future. At least you will know what to ask them about when you call...
As for the DNS (Distant Network) service...it appears that my HD (High Def) setup is causing confusion. DirecTv sells normal SD (Standard Def) DNS service under the name Mobile DNS. I think it runs about $11.99/month. This will give you the networks from either the east (NY) or west (LA) stations. I don't think I will get both at the same time, but I will find out once they process my waiver.
I also pay DirecTv $10.00/month for HD Access. This is what adds the HD channels to the programming you receive. For instance, if you subscribe to HBO, then by adding HD Access you will also receive HBO-HD. It also gives you HD-DNS.
In my case, someone at DirecTv was able to "fool" their computer system into letting them remove my Mobile (SD) DNS service, and not remove HD DNS. (I suspect because my HD Access was still active this must be a problem with their computer programming). Since I was still receiving the HD DNS channels I never noticed the SD DNS channels had disappeared. DirecTv told me that the person shouldn't have been able to remove the Mobile DNS and keep the HD DNS active. And because it had been more than 30 days, my waiver was no longer active. Even though it was their mistake and not mine, I still have to re-submit my waiver.
So I mailed the waiver and am going to wait and see what happens. I still see a problem if they won't allow me to change my service address. In my travels I have found that the locations we have been workamping do not allow me to receive the local channels on the batwing antenna. I do like to get the locals for weather and news so I feel like I am part of the community...especially since we tend to be there for a few months.
Delaine and Lindy said
10:52 AM Dec 1, 2009
It depends on who you talk to. We are told when we call that we have to get wavers. Thats when we ask for a supervisior. We have had a wavier for years. We in the past have always got the East and West (DNS) channels but now we can only get the East, and thats because of our home address? Keep in mind the Government dictates a lot of what Sattelite providers can and can't do. GBY.....
NorCal Dan said
08:23 PM Dec 1, 2009
Yes, the FCC is the rule maker, but until I research those rules I don't know that DirecTv is correctly interpreting those rules.
And yes, as I understand things right now, the DNS feed you receive is based on your service address. In the past, the service address is where your receivers are located. That is the address I would call and ask DirecTv to change so I could receive the local channels. You billing address is where you receive your mail, and, is used when you file your waiver. What one person at DirecTv told me, and who knows if it's true or not, is that now DirecTv will use the address listed on your RV registration for both your service and billing address, and that you will not be able to call DirecTv and change either address.
I know this topic is confusing, but the bottom line is that you will only get the DNS feed from one source, either east or west coast, and it will be based on your RV registration address. And you will NEVER be able to get local channels for anyplace but when in the spot beam area that covers that same address.
Like I said earlier, I am waiting to see what happens with my waiver. Best case is that DirecTv will continue to allow us RV'ers to change our service address when we move around the country. Not so much for the locals but to get the DNS service from the coast that makes the best sense for where your located. I think at one time DirecTv told me it is based on what timezone you happen to be in, with EST and CST getting east coast feed, and MST and PST getting west coast feed. Worst case is DirecTv refuses to allow us to change the service address without registering our RV's at a different location and submitting a new waiver.
And this is a program specifically aimed at RV'ers?? Something tells me there is more to this than we are hearing about...
NorCal Dan said
06:45 PM Dec 11, 2009
Just wanted to update the thread...apparently DirecTv has received my waiver and turned on MobileDNS for my account. I am happy to report that I am receiving both east and west feeds on the SD channels. But no change on the HD DNS feeds, I am still only receiving the east feed.
I am going to call them and see if I can change my service address. I don't care about the locals, but it would be nice to get the HD DNS from the west coast since that is where I'm located. I doubt they will do it, but I have to try...
Still researching the rules...no breakthroughs yet, but I have been busy this week and haven't been able to spend as much time on it as I had hoped. And we are having the coach worked on next week and we are moving to a new hosting job location so won't have much time next week either. But I will keep plugging away at it.
Postalpair said
08:41 PM Jan 3, 2010
Thanks for the info.....Please keep us updated.
NorCal Dan said
09:22 PM Jan 3, 2010
Sorry, I thought I updated this thread. I waited until we moved to our new hosting job and then called DTV again. The gal I talked to was very nice and changed my service address...it was a complete reversal from the first guy I talked to.
Why the change? I don't know, but I suspect it was because my waiver had been approved before I called DTV this time. They told me if I re-filed my waiver and there was no change from my last waiver they could approve it locally. Since it only took 10 days from the time I mailed it in to when I received my approval letter back from them I can assume they approved it locally.
When I called, the gal had my service address changed in about 2 minutes. What's really strange about all this is the next day they changed my HD DNS feed from east to west. I didn't request that change because I thought they wouldn't do it based on my earlier conversation with them (when they stated it would always be based off the RV registration address). I'm happy they changed it of course, but I don't know why they made the change for me.
I guess the bottom line is, if you don't like the answer you get, hang up and call back later. That's about the best advice I can give anybody. It's very hard to deal with a company when every time you call them you get a different answer. It could be they are changing the rules but not all phone reps are up to speed on the changes. If that's the case then things are only going to get worse from now on.
I do still plan to research the laws so next time I call I will be better prepared. I have a sneaky feeling I'm going to need it...
thebearII said
12:48 PM Jan 4, 2010
Just like RV salespeople....the answer depends on who you speak with and their understanding of the "facts".
Bill and Linda said
01:05 PM Jan 6, 2010
FWIW, I'm in the business and I can't keep it straight.
As concerns DNS, you can get both East and West Coast SD (standard definition) feeds. However, for reasons unknown to almost anyone, even in the business, you can only get the East OR West Coast HD fees but not both HD feeds.
As an obvious comment, if you get at Direct TV DVR (Direct TV's version of a Tivo) I recommend you get the East Coast HD feeds if you can. They come sooner and you can always play them back later. w\o those pesky commercials that paid my salary for 45 years. :)
We'll have a litte more to say about this at the 2010 Rally.
NorCal Dan said
03:40 PM Jan 6, 2010
Thanks Bill, good to know I'm not going crazy. I am mainly interested in what governs DTV and our service address. Seems everything except the HD DNS feed is controlled by the service address, specifically the local stations that are spot beamed. I never expected DTV to be unwilling to change the service address for us full-timers who only subscribe with an RV account/waiver. I am searching for the documents that stipulate what DTV can or cannot do for us. Everytime I call them I get a different answer...
NorCal Dan said
04:00 PM Jan 6, 2010
And the hunt begins...for those who want to follow along...a couple links to the FCC site about the Satellite Home Viewer Improvement Act of 1999 (SHVIA).
These documents do not address the waiver procedures directly, and are not specific to RV'ers. But they do explain the rules regarding receiving the local (local-into-local) broadcast stations. I am still looking for the FCC guidance that governs DTV and changing our service address.
add: The SHVIA document does address RV's and I am now trying to figure out how to find this document...I need a lawyer to decipher this mumbo-jumbo...
(d) RECREATIONAL VEHICLE AND COMMERCIAL TRUCKEXEMPTION.—Section 119(a) of title 17, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the fol- lowing:
-- Edited by NorCal Dan on Wednesday 6th of January 2010 04:17:18 PM
Bill and Linda said
04:44 PM Jan 6, 2010
In general, this issue is not totally conctrolled by the FCC as to what local TV stations you can get via satellite. It is Federal Law. But basically it has to do with people getting stations in their stick house that are outside the TV market area the stick house is located within. I.e DNS at a stick house that can actually get a local station.
(The FCC just more or less enforces the laws congress makes.)
In general, if you don't have a stick house address / account and only have a mobile waiver, Direct TV, if you get the correct person, will give you the locals where you are located. But if you billing address is in say, North Carolina, and you want the locals in Kerrville, Texas, that's the problem.
Federal Law prohibits the "importation of distant signals into a television market." The entire system was upset when another provider, not Direct TV, just ignored the law and gave people DNS service to their stick house. That was a big no no and caused all the "clamp down." It all happen in the '90's.
These are generalizations, but the reason it is harder than it should be.
As I said, we will discuss that at the Rally to whatever detail and extent desired.
NorCal Dan said
05:48 PM Jan 6, 2010
Thanks Bill. We won't make it to the rally unfortunately. I have found the information that details RV's and getting the local-into-local channels. The SHVIA clearly defines what an RV is, and the requirements to submit a waiver that allows RV'ers to receive the local-into-local programming and DNS service.
There must be different document that guides DTV and defines when/why/how they are allowed to change our service address, and in effect, change the local-into-local programming that we receive. I doubt the FCC or DTV expects RV owners to remain in the same location where they register their RV (documented on the waiver we submit). Maybe DTV makes their own "rules" for changing the service address??
Bill and Linda said
01:29 PM Jan 8, 2010
If you don't mind, please post the link you indicated below had the specific RV / SHVIA Rules you referenced. I want to make sure we're talking apples for apples and the most current "apples" so to speak.
Sorry you won't make the Rally. Maybe next year. Howard and Linda do a bang up job.
Bill
NorCal Dan wrote:
Thanks Bill. We won't make it to the rally unfortunately. I have found the information that details RV's and getting the local-into-local channels. The SHVIA clearly defines what an RV is, and the requirements to submit a waiver that allows RV'ers to receive the local-into-local programming and DNS service.
There must be different document that guides DTV and defines when/why/how they are allowed to change our service address, and in effect, change the local-into-local programming that we receive. I doubt the FCC or DTV expects RV owners to remain in the same location where they register their RV (documented on the waiver we submit). Maybe DTV makes their own "rules" for changing the service address??
NorCal Dan said
06:57 PM Jan 8, 2010
Bill, look a few posts back, I posted the links to the documents in my 6 Jan entry.
-- Edited by NorCal Dan on Friday 8th of January 2010 06:58:09 PM
Bill and Linda said
11:00 AM Jan 10, 2010
NorCal Dan wrote:
Bill, look a few posts back, I posted the links to the documents in my 6 Jan entry.
-- Edited by NorCal Dan on Friday 8th of January 2010 06:58:09 PM
Very good.I had these, but good double check, thank you.
I have been around the SHVIA / SHVERA legal track professionally for a long long time and just want to make sure I had the latest FCC postings.
I will tell you this is changing again as to the details of the law. It’s being amended.However, those changes most likely will have little real impact on making it particularly easier, or harder, for RV’ers.We’ll just have to wait that one out and then discuss it if appropriate.
Safe travels.
Bill
Onawave said
08:53 AM Feb 19, 2010
We haven't had to change anything yet, but once we start heading south for the winters, I wonder if it will be the same. Our local's come from the Salem Oregon area, and lets say we head to AZ for a few months, or TX.. Will we have to get a waiver to get the local channels?
We are on Direct TV.
Racerguy said
09:05 AM Feb 19, 2010
You won't be able to get the Salem locals. You will have to purchase a service called DNS which is East coast feed out of New York and west coast feed out of I believe LA. ,Or you could put up your bat wing and possibly pick up locals for the area you are in.
Onawave said
09:20 AM Feb 19, 2010
Thanks Racer. When we do start our snowbird adventures, we will buy the DNS. It wont be for another 3 years, so maybe the rules will change before that. (again).
Right now we go to the coast for long week ends, and get all same channels we get at home. (but it's only 60 miles away).
This causes me a couple of problems. First, I won't be able to receive local stations via DirecTv when I am out of the spot beam for my service address. Depending on where we are this might not be a big deal if, and that's a big if, if we can pick up stations with the batwing. But a lot of the places we go you can't pick up anything on the crankup antenna.
Second, if you subscribe to mobile DNS, you will receive the DNS stations based on your service address. But, remember, you can't change your service address. So if your on the east coast, and receiving the east feeds of DNS, and you then move to the west coast, you won't be able to change to the west feed.
Now I know some of you are receiving both east and west DNS. If your lucky enough to be getting both then I recommend you never call DirecTv or change your programming package. Don't say I didn't warn you...
I will be doing my own research of the FCC rules. After talking to numerious DirecTv call reps I am not convinced they know what they are talking about and I want to educate myself on what the rules actually say...in the hope that I can find a solution to my problem. If anyone else feels like helping please drop me an email...
FWIW, I'm in the business and I can't keep it straight.
As concerns DNS, you can get both East and West Coast SD (standard definition) feeds. However, for reasons unknown to almost anyone, even in the business, you can only get the East OR West Coast HD fees but not both HD feeds.
As an obvious comment, if you get at Direct TV DVR (Direct TV's version of a Tivo) I recommend you get the East Coast HD feeds if you can. They come sooner and you can always play them back later. w\o those pesky commercials that paid my salary for 45 years. :)
We'll have a litte more to say about this at the 2010 Rally.
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/shva/
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/shvera.html
These documents do not address the waiver procedures directly, and are not specific to RV'ers. But they do explain the rules regarding receiving the local (local-into-local) broadcast stations. I am still looking for the FCC guidance that governs DTV and changing our service address.
add: The SHVIA document does address RV's and I am now trying to figure out how to find this document...I need a lawyer to decipher this mumbo-jumbo...
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sec_17_00000119----000-.html
This is getting complicated...
-- Edited by NorCal Dan on Wednesday 6th of January 2010 04:17:18 PM
(The FCC just more or less enforces the laws congress makes.)
In general, if you don't have a stick house address / account and only have a mobile waiver, Direct TV, if you get the correct person, will give you the locals where you are located. But if you billing address is in say, North Carolina, and you want the locals in Kerrville, Texas, that's the problem.
Federal Law prohibits the "importation of distant signals into a television market." The entire system was upset when another provider, not Direct TV, just ignored the law and gave people DNS service to their stick house. That was a big no no and caused all the "clamp down." It all happen in the '90's.
These are generalizations, but the reason it is harder than it should be.
As I said, we will discuss that at the Rally to whatever detail and extent desired.
-- Edited by NorCal Dan on Friday 8th of January 2010 06:58:09 PM
Very good. I had these, but good double check, thank you.
I have been around the SHVIA / SHVERA legal track professionally for a long long time and just want to make sure I had the latest FCC postings.
I will tell you this is changing again as to the details of the law. It’s being amended. However, those changes most likely will have little real impact on making it particularly easier, or harder, for RV’ers. We’ll just have to wait that one out and then discuss it if appropriate.
Safe travels.
Bill
We are on Direct TV.
Right now we go to the coast for long week ends, and get all same channels we get at home. (but it's only 60 miles away).