Looked at an Open Range Residential this afternoon. It pretty much had the "it" factor. We both liked it better than anything else we've seen. It's an '09 model with the technical things I looked for on the exterior and loads of storage inside and in the basement. And the price is really good...weights within our range...CCC is just about the most I've seen... We both like the floorplan and interior appointments very much. Per Dave, "I could live in this." WOWWHEE! Now there's an endorsement.
BUT..it's on a Lippert chassis and the Open Range company is only in their second production year. Two-year warranty...no I haven't read the warranty in detail.
Hmmm...both those things make me a little wary. Of course, how many Lippert chasses out there never have a problem?
I guess it's really all a roll of the dice. An owners forum I went to talked about minor initial glitches but were overall extremely pleased with Open Range's response and support and when asked if they would buy it again, said yes.
Hmmm...get a really good extended warranty????
GENECOP said
06:09 PM Nov 27, 2009
Lets have a link, lets see IT. G
TxYellowRose said
06:16 PM Nov 27, 2009
Here's a link. The big photo is like the one we looked at.
I personally don't have an issue with a Lippert frame. When you consider that probably 85% of fifth wheels use them, their much maligned status from a small vocal bunch of the user base doesn't really look as bad as it's purported to be, when you consider the millions that are out there.
I looked at these a couple of weeks ago, and we were impressed too!.... initially.
There were some things that weren't adding up to me, and the biggest thing that caused me to cross them off the list may surprise you.
Fit and Finish - So-So
We really dug the clear "bowl" sinks in the bathroom, but looking at it objectively, I concluded that it was "flash" designed to evoke an Ooooh Aaaaah reaction, and divert your attention away from the fact that nearly every piece of trim was plastic. Not a veneer over pressboard, but pure, pretty thin, hollow plastic. The slide out trim pieces were especially cheap looking and feeling. The cabinets were wood, the trim wasn't. I know why, too. They've kept these units at weights comparable with mid-profile models. So there is a reason. They are a much better insulated unit than ones I am looking at, so I was willing to forego the cheap looking plastic for the sake of weight.
Another thing stood out to me.... the slide system. Sorry, but that cable system doesn't sit right with me AT ALL. It wouldn't take much to foul those cables and anybody could walk up with a small pair of needle nose pliers with a cutting edge and render your slide useless.
In all three units I looked at, the floor had soft-spots in the middle, over the axles that gave by about an inch. Not just one unit, all three.
It did have a really cool lift system, and I really liked what they did with the rear stabilizers, it's a really nice system.
They had features that definitely put them in the "more suitable" for full-timing class, than a lot of rigs I've been looking at. More insulation, a really nice enclosed underbelly, built-in vacuum, washer dryer hookups....
What killed it for me.... the price.
And it wasn't the fact that they were too pricey per-se, it was the range of prices that I saw.
I went home and did some research. Dealer said the ones we were looking at go for about $69K. Ok, fine..... this guy thinks I fell off the turnip truck, whatever. That's MSRP.... 30% - 40% below that figure is what I would expect to really pay, and is admittedly out of my range.
What I found astonished me.
I saw prices online that ranged from MSRP, to the low 30's for the exact same rig.
LOW 30's!!!!! I should have been excited.... bit I wasn't.
That confirmed one thing for me. They're taking shortcuts somewhere. The abundance of plastic, the slides and the mushy floor all concerned me a bit, but was willing to overlook some of it, if the price was right. The extremely wide range of prices told me something was fishy and was the straw that caused me to cross them off the list.
Just my opinion based on what I saw. User comments didn't instill confidence either. Got to take them with a grain of salt. When people have had multiple problems with a rig but then turn around and say they would buy again...
That just tells me people will defend their choices no matter what, rather than admit to themselves they just spent tens of thousands of dollars on something that isn't working as well as it should.
TxYellowRose said
08:55 AM Nov 28, 2009
Tony/Madonna,
You saw some of what we did on a brief initial look-at. Okay, the plastic I can overlook for the sake of weight and many of the other features. The Lippert issue I could probably make peace with seeing as it is so widely found in RVs. Again, ANYthing can go wrong with ANY RV. The ones with problems are typically the ones you hear about...what about all the others out there with Lippert that have had no problems. Still, the Lippert factor warrants consideration. We didn't do an in-depth inspection at this point. Didn't notice any soft spots in the floor but, again, weren't doing a "we are serious about this rig" walk-through. It is a 2009 model and they are asking $45k for it, originally $50k-something. Believe it or not, I'm not crazy about the idea of a king bed; a queen seems easier to deal with and gives more space. I'd like something with true night-stands, not just little flip-up things.
If nothing else, it helped define what we do want in our home-to-be. It had much of the "it" factor for us. Trouble is, it's going to be darned difficult if not impossible to find everything we want/need in a single RV. There will have to be some "I really like this feature and I'm not crazy about that, but I can deal with it."
I also found a forum of Open Range owners. Seems the problems they had were minor ones and ultimately resolved. They were pleased with the quick response and support from Open Range. And yes, they would buy the same again based on their overall experience. Again, one will have initial glitches with any unit and the incidences you usually hear about are the problems not the "I have had no issues whatsoever" posts.
So we keep looking, looking, looking! I sure would like to go back and really crawl through that Open Range inch by inch and check it out, though!
Thanks for your comments!
Betty
-- Edited by TxYellowRose on Saturday 28th of November 2009 10:09:43 AM
-- Edited by TxYellowRose on Saturday 28th of November 2009 11:30:20 AM
Delaine and Lindy said
10:41 AM Nov 28, 2009
If the Lippert issue was the only thing stopping me from getting the Open Road, that would be a moot point. We have owned 6 5th wheels and all have had a Lippert Frame and 5 of the 6 were very heavy 5th wheels . And yes there have been some people who have had issues with the Frames. But when your building more that 85% of the 5th wheel frames there will be some issues. We only hear about Lippert frames when there is a issue. And in most cases we don't have a clue how the RV was used and or abused. Generally there is about 60% to 70% of RV's are over their carring weight. So the Frame issue is a moot point. I also believe if you have a heavy 5th wheel you should have a Trailer Saver Air ride 5th wheel hitch, you will not have near the stress on the frame. GBY.....
-- Edited by Delaine and Lindy on Saturday 28th of November 2009 10:42:56 AM
Racerguy said
12:32 PM Nov 28, 2009
Delaine and Lindey make a good point. The few who have problems are much more vocal than those who don't. The thousands who have no problems have no reason to say anything but the few who do feel the need to tell everyone.I wouldn't let a Lippert frame bother me.
Hogladyrider said
03:47 PM Nov 28, 2009
What other mfg have you looked at?
When we were in the market for a 5th wheel we too looked at Open Range, but the decor just was not us.
We visited many dealers and many shows, at even crawling underneath to inspect.
We never thought we would be able to afford what we wanted but we searched and searched and when we were no longer looking viola there "it" was and we have no regrets and have never looked back.
We purchased our 5th wheel online and drove to MI to pick it up. Even with taking 4 days off work we saved over $20k. Dealers in Florida just were not willing to deal! We have never been happier. Granted we are not fulltimers yet but we plan on getting there someday and we feel our Big Horn will serve us well.
Good luck and this is the place where you will receive a wealth of information and opinons.
Susan
TxYellowRose said
04:37 PM Nov 28, 2009
Hoglady,
I've researched bunches online (and been trailering since literally a baby) but due to work constraints and availability in our nearby area, we have looked actually at just a few. We do not have a dually, so we are also keeping weight in mind. I do know what I don't want, etc. Although we really liked a Montana, I am not comfortable with the weight issue and our TV. We've also looked at Cardinal, other Keystone models, Excel, some Heartland...ummm...what else... I would like to see some NuWa...Hitchiker...and Kingston and Seville by Crossroads. However, this Open Range seemed to have many tech features (heated basement, tanks, etc.), extra insulation, so on and so forth...basically everything I could think of so far re: technical specs, many interior features we like/want, again so on and so forth. I'm not nuts about the two-tone cabinetry but, again, there are so many things we do like that this has.
I think we've decided to go back and REALLY look it over, literally on hands and knees if that is what it takes. If nothing else, it will give us an idea of the way this brand is put together.
-- Edited by TxYellowRose on Saturday 28th of November 2009 09:53:14 PM
Terry and Jo said
07:08 PM Nov 28, 2009
Betty,
Jo and I have also looked at an Open Range Residential model. I think it was something like 398RLS. Let me try to not be too negative here.
We first liked the amenities, although I am still a little hesitant on the cable slide system. I understand some motorhomes have them, but I'm just can't get too enthused with it. Also, I can find practically NO information about the construction of the units or of the materials that the unit is made. I looked under the unit and wasn't pleased with either the frame or the material holding in the floor insulation, nor the way that material was fastened to the frame.
While I'm like some of the others, I'm not really concerned too much about the frame being a Lippert. We are looking at a DRV Suites, specifically a Mobile Suites 38TKSB3, which I believe the DRV Suites models have Lippert frames. However, each manufacturer has specifications to which Lippert builds the frame. Mobile Suites frames are 15 inches in height. I don't recall any being heavier of the units we have looked at and considered.
Now, have said all that, I didn't like the Open Range frame. It is much lighter, thus helping the unit be lighter. However, a lot depends on the amount of pulling you will do. If you are going to be a fulltimer, moving on a fairly regular basis, it may be too light of a frame. Remember, the frame is the foundation of any unit one purchases.
As for the Open Range forum, it is fairly new and there aren't many people on the forum. Also, as you mentioned, most haven't had their units for very long, so, I'm just a bit hesitant with how well the units will actually hold up.
One of the forum participants spoke of going on a "factory tour" at Open Range, but the called just before he arrived and said that they couldn't give an actual "tour". If I recall correctly, they were buying a unit, which was supposedly near completion and they wanted to see it. They had the "plant manager" take them to the unit, but they said the guy was very rude and acted as if he was really being "put out" by the request.
These units cost a lot of money, so make sure that you are getting your money's worth. Open Range may be just fine, but they are a really new company and I'm not certain how well they will fare, considering the economy right now. Do a LOT of research and comparisons before making a final decision. I'm not sure how things work, but if a company goes out of business, who would "go to bat" for you in any warranty requirements, whether it be frame or other features?
Keep in mind that my opinions are based on the fact that Jo and I will be living in whatever unit we buy full time. That is the basis of all of our decisions of the quality of an RV unit.
Good luck in your search.
Terry
4x4given said
08:49 PM Dec 2, 2009
Tina and I were initially very interested in an Open Range because of pricing, the general look (even though I was somewhat put off by all the plastic) and I really do like the cable actuated slides. The design appears sound and it would be a cinch for me to service it or work on it. In fact, I noticed that a number of mid to high end Class A's use the same design.
But... we heard from a freind who owns an RV dealership that Open Range was having problems, not honoring warranties and starting to look like they were going out of business. The dealer where we bought our TT, one of the largest in Texas, was carrying Open Range and they suddenly quit. When we asked why, they said O.R. wasn't standing behind warranties and they couldn't get units delivered on time.
Then.. another dealer close to our house that was also carrying them said the same thing. A month later that dealership went out of business.
All in all, we got nervous enough to scratch Open Range off our list. In the end, we bought (will pick it up this Saturday) a Keystone Sprinter 318FLS. We plan on it being our (second) starter unit for the next 5 - 8 years and then we'll get a *NICE* full time rated 5er.
Looked at an Open Range Residential this afternoon. It pretty much had the "it" factor. We both liked it better than anything else we've seen. It's an '09 model with the technical things I looked for on the exterior and loads of storage inside and in the basement. And the price is really good...weights within our range...CCC is just about the most I've seen... We both like the floorplan and interior appointments very much. Per Dave, "I could live in this." WOWWHEE! Now there's an endorsement.
BUT..it's on a Lippert chassis and the Open Range company is only in their second production year. Two-year warranty...no I haven't read the warranty in detail.
Hmmm...both those things make me a little wary. Of course, how many Lippert chasses out there never have a problem?
I guess it's really all a roll of the dice. An owners forum I went to talked about minor initial glitches but were overall extremely pleased with Open Range's response and support and when asked if they would buy it again, said yes.
Hmmm...get a really good extended warranty????
http://www.openrangerv.com/residential/Flash/gallery.aspx
-- Edited by TxYellowRose on Friday 27th of November 2009 08:08:17 PM
Tony/Madonna,
You saw some of what we did on a brief initial look-at. Okay, the plastic I can overlook for the sake of weight and many of the other features. The Lippert issue I could probably make peace with seeing as it is so widely found in RVs. Again, ANYthing can go wrong with ANY RV. The ones with problems are typically the ones you hear about...what about all the others out there with Lippert that have had no problems. Still, the Lippert factor warrants consideration. We didn't do an in-depth inspection at this point. Didn't notice any soft spots in the floor but, again, weren't doing a "we are serious about this rig" walk-through. It is a 2009 model and they are asking $45k for it, originally $50k-something. Believe it or not, I'm not crazy about the idea of a king bed; a queen seems easier to deal with and gives more space. I'd like something with true night-stands, not just little flip-up things.
If nothing else, it helped define what we do want in our home-to-be. It had much of the "it" factor for us. Trouble is, it's going to be darned difficult if not impossible to find everything we want/need in a single RV. There will have to be some "I really like this feature and I'm not crazy about that, but I can deal with it."
I also found a forum of Open Range owners. Seems the problems they had were minor ones and ultimately resolved. They were pleased with the quick response and support from Open Range. And yes, they would buy the same again based on their overall experience. Again, one will have initial glitches with any unit and the incidences you usually hear about are the problems not the "I have had no issues whatsoever" posts.
So we keep looking, looking, looking! I sure would like to go back and really crawl through that Open Range inch by inch and check it out, though!
Thanks for your comments!
Betty
-- Edited by TxYellowRose on Saturday 28th of November 2009 10:09:43 AM
-- Edited by TxYellowRose on Saturday 28th of November 2009 11:30:20 AM
Frame and 5 of the 6 were very heavy 5th wheels . And yes there have been some people who have had issues with the Frames. But when your building more that 85% of the 5th wheel frames there will be some issues. We only hear about Lippert frames when there is a issue. And in most cases we don't have a clue how the RV was used and or abused. Generally there is about 60% to 70% of RV's are over their carring weight. So the Frame issue is a moot point. I also believe if you have a heavy 5th wheel you should have a Trailer Saver Air ride 5th wheel hitch, you will not have near the stress on the frame. GBY.....
-- Edited by Delaine and Lindy on Saturday 28th of November 2009 10:42:56 AM
I've researched bunches online (and been trailering since literally a baby) but due to work constraints and availability in our nearby area, we have looked actually at just a few. We do not have a dually, so we are also keeping weight in mind. I do know what I don't want, etc. Although we really liked a Montana, I am not comfortable with the weight issue and our TV. We've also looked at Cardinal, other Keystone models, Excel, some Heartland...ummm...what else... I would like to see some NuWa...Hitchiker...and Kingston and Seville by Crossroads. However, this Open Range seemed to have many tech features (heated basement, tanks, etc.), extra insulation, so on and so forth...basically everything I could think of so far re: technical specs, many interior features we like/want, again so on and so forth. I'm not nuts about the two-tone cabinetry but, again, there are so many things we do like that this has.
I think we've decided to go back and REALLY look it over, literally on hands and knees if that is what it takes. If nothing else, it will give us an idea of the way this brand is put together.
-- Edited by TxYellowRose on Saturday 28th of November 2009 09:53:14 PM
Jo and I have also looked at an Open Range Residential model. I think it was something like 398RLS. Let me try to not be too negative here.
We first liked the amenities, although I am still a little hesitant on the cable slide system. I understand some motorhomes have them, but I'm just can't get too enthused with it. Also, I can find practically NO information about the construction of the units or of the materials that the unit is made. I looked under the unit and wasn't pleased with either the frame or the material holding in the floor insulation, nor the way that material was fastened to the frame.
While I'm like some of the others, I'm not really concerned too much about the frame being a Lippert. We are looking at a DRV Suites, specifically a Mobile Suites 38TKSB3, which I believe the DRV Suites models have Lippert frames. However, each manufacturer has specifications to which Lippert builds the frame. Mobile Suites frames are 15 inches in height. I don't recall any being heavier of the units we have looked at and considered.
Now, have said all that, I didn't like the Open Range frame. It is much lighter, thus helping the unit be lighter. However, a lot depends on the amount of pulling you will do. If you are going to be a fulltimer, moving on a fairly regular basis, it may be too light of a frame. Remember, the frame is the foundation of any unit one purchases.
As for the Open Range forum, it is fairly new and there aren't many people on the forum. Also, as you mentioned, most haven't had their units for very long, so, I'm just a bit hesitant with how well the units will actually hold up.
One of the forum participants spoke of going on a "factory tour" at Open Range, but the called just before he arrived and said that they couldn't give an actual "tour". If I recall correctly, they were buying a unit, which was supposedly near completion and they wanted to see it. They had the "plant manager" take them to the unit, but they said the guy was very rude and acted as if he was really being "put out" by the request.
These units cost a lot of money, so make sure that you are getting your money's worth. Open Range may be just fine, but they are a really new company and I'm not certain how well they will fare, considering the economy right now. Do a LOT of research and comparisons before making a final decision. I'm not sure how things work, but if a company goes out of business, who would "go to bat" for you in any warranty requirements, whether it be frame or other features?
Keep in mind that my opinions are based on the fact that Jo and I will be living in whatever unit we buy full time. That is the basis of all of our decisions of the quality of an RV unit.
Good luck in your search.
Terry