We need your help on learning about trucks with which to tow a 5th wheel. We've been pretty much set on a motorhome and then we attended the rally! We learned a lot about the pros of a 5er and had many hours on the drive back to Colorado to waffle back and forth on which would be better for us. We're still undecided but are now strongly leaning toward a 5er. However, that brings up a whole new set of questions which we had never pondered - the truck. I know nothing about what to look for in a truck. I understand the weight of the 5er will largely dictate the size of the truck, but is it really as simple as going into a dealer and saying "I need a truck that will tow 'x' pounds"? I have to imagine that there are more things to consider than just towing capacity. And are there add-ons, other than the hitch, which I will need or is a truck off the lot ready to go?
Also, I noticed at the rally that the majority of 5ers were towed by Fords. Is that just personal preference or is the Ford brand superior for this type of use?
Maybe the truck research is premature until we settle on a 5er, but it feels to me that they go hand-in-hand so I want to make sure I'm taking all facets into consideration to make the right decision. No answers are too basic...really. And please share any other good resources or past forum threads also. All information is greatly appreciated.
And here I thought the rally was supposed to elimate some of our confusion, not add to it! :)
Thanks!
-Connie
Terry and Jo said
02:18 PM Oct 14, 2009
Connie,
Like yourselves, my wife and I have wavered back and forth between a truck with a fifth wheel and the motorhomes. There are some links under the category of "Tow Vehicles" that is very informative.
Between the "Tow Vehicle" category and the "Buying an RV" category of threads, you can find where I have written about our research.
Trying to keep from making it sound like an "attitude", let me relate a comment from a lady friend who is really into horses, going to horse shows and to the race tracks. She once told me that if you went to the horse shows (Dressage riding), you would find that the trailers were pulled primarily by Ford and Dodge trucks. Unless you go into the larger "chassis cab" category of the GM products, you wouldn't find one that was heavy enough and strong enough to handle a heavy trailer.
Having said that, in regards to Ford and Dodge, my research has found that the Ford F450 has a higher weight rating than the "equivalent" Dodge 4500 series. However, as you said, the trailer weight is the deciding factor as to how big of a truck you will need. When looking at a fifth wheel, look in the cabinets for a "sticker" or "plate" that gives the empty weight and allowable loaded weight.
The fifth wheel we are looking at (DRV's Mobile Suites 38TKSB3) weighs in at about 18,500 pounds for a GVWR. So for us, the Dodge just wouldn't be heavy enough. Since I am a former professional driver (bobtails and 18-wheelers), I believe in having a truck heavier than what I really need.
I also looked at MDT's and HDT's. For me, the HDT's are too limiting in regards to visibility in trying to look around when driving. An MDT is an option (mini-Freightliner, for instance), but I found that to be too expensive, even for a used one.
When researching your trucks, do NOT believe the salesmen. Make them show you the books indicating the truck's GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) and it's GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicular Weight).
There are other forums you can check for truck threads. Escapees website is a good source of information, including information on the HDT and MDT trucks.
But, you have also found one of the best sources that I have found in Howard and Linda's website. At least, it is one of the most active in regards to the forum.
Anyway, if you have questions, feel free to ask. There are no "dumb" questions, just some "smart-alecky" answers once in a while. Don't let those answers throw you off. If you are uncomfortable with answers, feel free to "Private Message" people, including myself.
Good luck in your research, and have FUN. One question I have for you: we love to vacation in Colorado. Where in Colorado do you live?
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Wednesday 14th of October 2009 02:20:12 PM
thebearII said
02:26 PM Oct 14, 2009
Connie,
Actually you are being very smart in asking for help with this decision. It's a complicated issue that most dealers are not knowledgeable enough to safely answer.
Most RV'ers will advise shop for the trailer (5th wheel) first and then buy a truck with more than the capacity to tow it. You don't want to get a truck that is at or near capacity. You just end up straining the truck and it leads to premature failure plus your safety might be at risk. Most trucks will pull the weight and handle it reasonably well on the flat road, but once you get into twisty mountain roads, or inclement weather or poor road surface conditions that's when the right truck will make the difference.
However, the biggest consideration in my opinion is stopping the truck & trailer. The right truck/trailer setup will stop safely and straight even in a panic situation. An at or near capacity truck will not be able to stop safely.
If you pay attention to the 5th wheels being towed down the highways you'll see about an equal number of Ford, Chevys and Dodge trucks towing them. Ford and Dodge were the firsts to add diesel engines so a lot of 5th wheel owners went that way to get the torque (pulling power) the diesel offers. Chevy began offering a good diesel engine so the balance of power has kind of evened out.
With most of the larger 5th wheels (32 foot plus with slideouts) you'll need at least a F350 or 3500 to pull it. Most 5th wheel owners are now going to the F450 or F550 or a MDT (Medium Duty Truck) or even an HDT (Heavy Duty Truck/ semi) for pulling power, fuel economy and safety.
Take into consideration the following:
> Towing Capacity (as much capacity as you can afford beyond the minimum for the 5th wheel you choose) > Ride Comfort (both towing the 5th wheel and without) > Diesel instead of gas engine > Heavy Duty everything (brakes, suspension, drive train, transmission) > Equipped for towing (extra wiring and features) > Mirrors that can be extended out to see around the trailer
Others will provide links for towing capacity charts which will come in handy in choosing your truck.
It can be difficult finding the right truck, don't get discouraged, make sure you get one that will safely tow the 5th wheel you decide on.
Good Luck.
-- Edited by thebearII on Wednesday 14th of October 2009 02:31:41 PM
Luvglass said
04:42 PM Oct 14, 2009
I think one of the reasons you saw so many Ford trucks at the rally is because their tow capacity and GCWR is so much higher than the others.
Here are the highest rated fifth wheel towing limits for 350 / 3500 long bed crew cab 4X4 diesel duallies, as listed in the 2009 Trailer Life Towing Guide.
Ford 17,700
Dodge 16,300
Chevy 15,900
I haven't seen the 2010 ratings yet, but I'm sure they'll be published soon. As others have advised, if you choose a trailer with a GVWR much over 16,000 pounds, you should consider going to a 450 / 4500 truck. Despite what any salesman might tell you, these are the ratings published by the manufacturers and it would be very prudent to adhere to them. The problems often come when stopping, not towing.
Good luck,
DreamerBob said
09:08 PM Oct 14, 2009
Hi Connie - I was EXACTLY where you are in the decision process and know how daunting the process seems but with the help from the kind folks on this site (especially the guys who've already responded), I got through it & so will you.
For me, reliability of my rig was a big concern. I just don't have the patience for things that break. As an engineer, I had some coursework & seminars in reliability engineering and in short, what I learned is the more moving parts there are, the lower the reliability (its just common sense). That's what I liked about a fiver and a truck vs. a motorhome & a toad - less moving parts. Not that motor homes aren't great, but I liked the fiver option better.
My approach was to pick a really good fiver that met my needs then buy a truck properly sized to handle it. "Properly sized" boils down to actual weights of the truck/5ver combo vs. rated weight capacities of the truck. There are really good earlier posts on all of these. The first time through it seems overwhelming, I read & re-read them several times. In the end, its not that complex, but it is important. Take a look at those posts.
I agree with Terry - DON'T believe the salesman. I had a Ford salesman trying to sell me a truck hopelessly under-rated just to make a sale. I did end up with a Ford though because they have an option called a Tow Boss package which has a rear transaxle gearing that increases the GCVWR, & to safely tow my 5ver, I needed it. Chevy & Dodge didn't have a GCVWR as high as the Tow Boss Ford dually in the model year I was looking (I bought a used 2006 truck to save some $). The Ford also has an integrated trailer brake controller that you will need for towing (although an after-market one can be added to the others). The brake controller activates the built-in brakes in the 5ver when the truck brakes are applied.
You definitely want a diesel. Also, don't forget to account for the weight of all of your belongings that you will carry in the 5ver. They add to the overall weight figures. There are good previous posts on these weights also.
Of course the other consideration as always is $$$ - the bigger the 5ver, the bigger the truck needed & the higher the overall cost.
Keep asking questions though - this folks are really great & have helped me & others a lot.
Happy hunting, Bob
RodnReal said
05:27 AM Oct 15, 2009
Good luck with all that Connie. Everyone here has such great information for you.
There is so much to consider when making this decision. Personally, I agree with Bob "...pick a really good fiver that meets my needs then buy a truck properly sized to handle it."
We are fortunate enough to already have a truck that will pull everything in our price range. We have even made the decision on the 5ver we want. Now, we will seek out the deal of the century and buy it.
Don't get fooled by all the bells and whistles, look beneath the surface for a really well built rig.
-Connie
-- Edited by RodnReal on Thursday 15th of October 2009 05:28:11 AM
Terry and Jo said
08:32 AM Oct 15, 2009
Connie,
Please keep in mind that my earlier comments are somewhat based on getting a large fifth wheel. At least, that is what Jo and I are planning. Our research has been based on that premise.
I read in your "biography" under your user name that you were initially interested in a 24' motorhome. I am presuming from your biography that you are planning on full-timing, so let me add another thought.
Jo and I have a 26' fifth wheel and it is OK as a camper being used on a limited time basis. We are looking to sell our home and MOVE INTO a fifth wheel, which will be our home. We still have a few years before we retire, so we plan on having something that is well made and well insulated. For those reasons, we are looking at a fifth wheel that may be larger than a lot of others.
Your needs may be less, but when considering everything keep in mind that you may decide that your first choice of fifth wheel (if you go that way) may be too small for full timing. Thus, if you go the truck and fifth wheel route, I would advise "over buying" with the purchase of a truck. That way, if you choose to get a larger fifth wheel, you still may have a big enough truck to handle it.
Also, I cannot stress enough to check out some RV shows so you can see a number of different units and their features. Always ask yourself whether the "features" would really benefit you.
Good luck.
Terry
contra said
12:13 PM Oct 15, 2009
Thanks to all who have responded...great information; keep it coming! :)
Terry ~ in answer to a couple of your questions:
We currently live in Golden, right outside of Denver. It's a great place for a suburban dweller, but we're ready to get out of the city! :)
Our profile does mention our 24' motorhome. That is what we currently have. Initially, we thought about trying to fulltime in that for a few months, but have since decided that it is way too small! So we are now planning to upgrade before hitting the road. We will be doing a lot of research before making any committments because we can't afford to change our minds a year down the road!
Terry and Jo said
07:43 PM Oct 15, 2009
Connie,
Thanks for the answer. We are aware of where Golden is located. Back in the late '70's we met a couple from Denver that were members of a group called Colorado Wheelers. They were a group of people that were confined to wheelchairs that formed together to have their own square dance club. After some time, they took on the task of traveling to various square dance clubs and putting on demonstrations. There were an astounding group of people.
The couple we met lived in Lakewood, and we had the opportunity to spend about 5 days with them while an RV that we had borrowed was repaired. (That's a whole nother story.) While we were there, we toured the Coors brewery in Golden. Jo drove us back after that. She doesn't like beer so I drank her share. OOOoooohhh!
Most of our vacationing in Colorado is down in the La Veta/Cuchara/Stonewall area and this year we went to Pagosa Springs. Reservations have already been made for two weeks there again next year.
Glad you are looking at a bigger RV. After a while, our 26 footer starts to get cramped.
Terry
blijil said
02:07 PM Oct 16, 2009
Truck advice above is great but the decision is really with the choice of 5th wheel. Bigger isn't always better because it forces truck and even extra vehicle decisions you may not want to make. Consider your own plans and needs and choose accordingly. We love our 30ft fifth wheel and have very few compaints but of course we would improve a couple of things and they weigh more. But we will make that decision when we upgrade. For now and the last 6 years we are happy with smaller, lighter, and flexible and we will probably stay that way for 4 or 5 more years but who knows what we will do then.
Racerguy said
02:49 PM Oct 16, 2009
Connie, Just another view to consider We intend to full time in our 38 foot Cedar Creek pulled by a 3500 Dually Dodge.It's not rated as a full time rig but is a well built unit. We have everything we need to full time in it and weighed it the other day and came in 1500 lbs under max amount rated. The total weight came in 1700 lbs under total rating.Compared to top of the line units price wise they are a good bargain. I have no complaints yet about the Dodge and they usually sell for less than comparable Fords.What every one said about having enough truck to safely pull and stop your 5ver is very important.The Fords do have the best weight rating but I guess what I'm trying to say is that you can get a nice rig without paying the price for the premium units.
Delaine and Lindy said
06:31 PM Oct 16, 2009
If you plan on staying under 36' most 1 Ton DRW will handle that size but if your going to a 38' 5th wheel you will need a MDT. We have a 2010 Mobile Suites 38 RSSB 4 at about 18,500 so we went to a 2006 Freightliner M2. We also do tow a Chevy HHR behind the Mobile Suites. I recomend you decide on the 5th wheel first and get the weight etc. then you can determine what size Truck you need. Also anything over 14,000 lb you will need a 1 ton Truck DRW's the 3/4 tons just can't handle the pin weight. Good Luck with your choices. Just one other thing most 5th wheels have a owners forum like this one and you can get a idea what Truck they are using pulling their 5th wheel. GBY...
P.S. We will be having our Suites Rally in Colorado in 2010 and we will be at Gardens of the Gods. We also have spent time in Colorado and do like it. But we only are there in the Summer month when the white stuff fly's we go South.
We need your help on learning about trucks with which to tow a 5th wheel. We've been pretty much set on a motorhome and then we attended the rally! We learned a lot about the pros of a 5er and had many hours on the drive back to Colorado to waffle back and forth on which would be better for us. We're still undecided but are now strongly leaning toward a 5er. However, that brings up a whole new set of questions which we had never pondered - the truck. I know nothing about what to look for in a truck. I understand the weight of the 5er will largely dictate the size of the truck, but is it really as simple as going into a dealer and saying "I need a truck that will tow 'x' pounds"? I have to imagine that there are more things to consider than just towing capacity. And are there add-ons, other than the hitch, which I will need or is a truck off the lot ready to go?
Also, I noticed at the rally that the majority of 5ers were towed by Fords. Is that just personal preference or is the Ford brand superior for this type of use?
Maybe the truck research is premature until we settle on a 5er, but it feels to me that they go hand-in-hand so I want to make sure I'm taking all facets into consideration to make the right decision. No answers are too basic...really. And please share any other good resources or past forum threads also. All information is greatly appreciated.
And here I thought the rally was supposed to elimate some of our confusion, not add to it! :)
Thanks!
-Connie
Like yourselves, my wife and I have wavered back and forth between a truck with a fifth wheel and the motorhomes. There are some links under the category of "Tow Vehicles" that is very informative.
Between the "Tow Vehicle" category and the "Buying an RV" category of threads, you can find where I have written about our research.
Trying to keep from making it sound like an "attitude", let me relate a comment from a lady friend who is really into horses, going to horse shows and to the race tracks. She once told me that if you went to the horse shows (Dressage riding), you would find that the trailers were pulled primarily by Ford and Dodge trucks. Unless you go into the larger "chassis cab" category of the GM products, you wouldn't find one that was heavy enough and strong enough to handle a heavy trailer.
Having said that, in regards to Ford and Dodge, my research has found that the Ford F450 has a higher weight rating than the "equivalent" Dodge 4500 series. However, as you said, the trailer weight is the deciding factor as to how big of a truck you will need. When looking at a fifth wheel, look in the cabinets for a "sticker" or "plate" that gives the empty weight and allowable loaded weight.
The fifth wheel we are looking at (DRV's Mobile Suites 38TKSB3) weighs in at about 18,500 pounds for a GVWR. So for us, the Dodge just wouldn't be heavy enough. Since I am a former professional driver (bobtails and 18-wheelers), I believe in having a truck heavier than what I really need.
I also looked at MDT's and HDT's. For me, the HDT's are too limiting in regards to visibility in trying to look around when driving. An MDT is an option (mini-Freightliner, for instance), but I found that to be too expensive, even for a used one.
When researching your trucks, do NOT believe the salesmen. Make them show you the books indicating the truck's GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) and it's GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicular Weight).
There are other forums you can check for truck threads. Escapees website is a good source of information, including information on the HDT and MDT trucks.
But, you have also found one of the best sources that I have found in Howard and Linda's website. At least, it is one of the most active in regards to the forum.
Anyway, if you have questions, feel free to ask. There are no "dumb" questions, just some "smart-alecky" answers once in a while. Don't let those answers throw you off. If you are uncomfortable with answers, feel free to "Private Message" people, including myself.
Good luck in your research, and have FUN. One question I have for you: we love to vacation in Colorado. Where in Colorado do you live?
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Wednesday 14th of October 2009 02:20:12 PM
Actually you are being very smart in asking for help with this decision. It's a complicated issue that most dealers are not knowledgeable enough to safely answer.
Most RV'ers will advise shop for the trailer (5th wheel) first and then buy a truck with more than the capacity to tow it. You don't want to get a truck that is at or near capacity. You just end up straining the truck and it leads to premature failure plus your safety might be at risk. Most trucks will pull the weight and handle it reasonably well on the flat road, but once you get into twisty mountain roads, or inclement weather or poor road surface conditions that's when the right truck will make the difference.
However, the biggest consideration in my opinion is stopping the truck & trailer. The right truck/trailer setup will stop safely and straight even in a panic situation. An at or near capacity truck will not be able to stop safely.
If you pay attention to the 5th wheels being towed down the highways you'll see about an equal number of Ford, Chevys and Dodge trucks towing them. Ford and Dodge were the firsts to add diesel engines so a lot of 5th wheel owners went that way to get the torque (pulling power) the diesel offers. Chevy began offering a good diesel engine so the balance of power has kind of evened out.
With most of the larger 5th wheels (32 foot plus with slideouts) you'll need at least a F350 or 3500 to pull it. Most 5th wheel owners are now going to the F450 or F550 or a MDT (Medium Duty Truck) or even an HDT (Heavy Duty Truck/ semi) for pulling power, fuel economy and safety.
Take into consideration the following:
> Towing Capacity (as much capacity as you can afford beyond the minimum for the 5th wheel you choose)
> Ride Comfort (both towing the 5th wheel and without)
> Diesel instead of gas engine
> Heavy Duty everything (brakes, suspension, drive train, transmission)
> Equipped for towing (extra wiring and features)
> Mirrors that can be extended out to see around the trailer
Others will provide links for towing capacity charts which will come in handy in choosing your truck.
It can be difficult finding the right truck, don't get discouraged, make sure you get one that will safely tow the 5th wheel you decide on.
Good Luck.
-- Edited by thebearII on Wednesday 14th of October 2009 02:31:41 PM
For me, reliability of my rig was a big concern. I just don't have the patience for things that break. As an engineer, I had some coursework & seminars in reliability engineering and in short, what I learned is the more moving parts there are, the lower the reliability (its just common sense). That's what I liked about a fiver and a truck vs. a motorhome & a toad - less moving parts. Not that motor homes aren't great, but I liked the fiver option better.
My approach was to pick a really good fiver that met my needs then buy a truck properly sized to handle it. "Properly sized" boils down to actual weights of the truck/5ver combo vs. rated weight capacities of the truck. There are really good earlier posts on all of these. The first time through it seems overwhelming, I read & re-read them several times. In the end, its not that complex, but it is important. Take a look at those posts.
I agree with Terry - DON'T believe the salesman. I had a Ford salesman trying to sell me a truck hopelessly under-rated just to make a sale. I did end up with a Ford though because they have an option called a Tow Boss package which has a rear transaxle gearing that increases the GCVWR, & to safely tow my 5ver, I needed it. Chevy & Dodge didn't have a GCVWR as high as the Tow Boss Ford dually in the model year I was looking (I bought a used 2006 truck to save some $). The Ford also has an integrated trailer brake controller that you will need for towing (although an after-market one can be added to the others). The brake controller activates the built-in brakes in the 5ver when the truck brakes are applied.
You definitely want a diesel. Also, don't forget to account for the weight of all of your belongings that you will carry in the 5ver. They add to the overall weight figures. There are good previous posts on these weights also.
Of course the other consideration as always is $$$ - the bigger the 5ver, the bigger the truck needed & the higher the overall cost.
Keep asking questions though - this folks are really great & have helped me & others a lot.
Happy hunting,
Bob
There is so much to consider when making this decision. Personally, I agree with Bob "...pick a really good fiver that meets my needs then buy a truck properly sized to handle it."
We are fortunate enough to already have a truck that will pull everything in our price range. We have even made the decision on the 5ver we want. Now, we will seek out the deal of the century and buy it.
Don't get fooled by all the bells and whistles, look beneath the surface for a really well built rig.
-Connie
-- Edited by RodnReal on Thursday 15th of October 2009 05:28:11 AM
Please keep in mind that my earlier comments are somewhat based on getting a large fifth wheel. At least, that is what Jo and I are planning. Our research has been based on that premise.
I read in your "biography" under your user name that you were initially interested in a 24' motorhome. I am presuming from your biography that you are planning on full-timing, so let me add another thought.
Jo and I have a 26' fifth wheel and it is OK as a camper being used on a limited time basis. We are looking to sell our home and MOVE INTO a fifth wheel, which will be our home. We still have a few years before we retire, so we plan on having something that is well made and well insulated. For those reasons, we are looking at a fifth wheel that may be larger than a lot of others.
Your needs may be less, but when considering everything keep in mind that you may decide that your first choice of fifth wheel (if you go that way) may be too small for full timing. Thus, if you go the truck and fifth wheel route, I would advise "over buying" with the purchase of a truck. That way, if you choose to get a larger fifth wheel, you still may have a big enough truck to handle it.
Also, I cannot stress enough to check out some RV shows so you can see a number of different units and their features. Always ask yourself whether the "features" would really benefit you.
Good luck.
Terry
Terry ~ in answer to a couple of your questions:
We currently live in Golden, right outside of Denver. It's a great place for a suburban dweller, but we're ready to get out of the city! :)
Our profile does mention our 24' motorhome. That is what we currently have. Initially, we thought about trying to fulltime in that for a few months, but have since decided that it is way too small! So we are now planning to upgrade before hitting the road. We will be doing a lot of research before making any committments because we can't afford to change our minds a year down the road!
Thanks for the answer. We are aware of where Golden is located. Back in the late '70's we met a couple from Denver that were members of a group called Colorado Wheelers. They were a group of people that were confined to wheelchairs that formed together to have their own square dance club. After some time, they took on the task of traveling to various square dance clubs and putting on demonstrations. There were an astounding group of people.
The couple we met lived in Lakewood, and we had the opportunity to spend about 5 days with them while an RV that we had borrowed was repaired. (That's a whole nother story.) While we were there, we toured the Coors brewery in Golden. Jo drove us back after that. She doesn't like beer so I drank her share. OOOoooohhh!
Most of our vacationing in Colorado is down in the La Veta/Cuchara/Stonewall area and this year we went to Pagosa Springs. Reservations have already been made for two weeks there again next year.
Glad you are looking at a bigger RV. After a while, our 26 footer starts to get cramped.
Terry