Been looking at FW and wonder how much truck I would need for a 37RE KZ Escalade?
GVWR 17,500 Dry Hitch 2,952 Dry Axle 11,959
Also, are the KZ's rated for winter living?
DaveSam said
03:24 PM May 26, 2009
We fulltime in a 38 ft KZ New Vision Sportster, with a GVWR of 18,000. The Escalade is the top of the line and would be fine for winter living. I pull mine with an F350 dually, which handles great. If I were going to get a new truck, I would move up to the F450.
Jack Mayer said
06:01 PM May 26, 2009
I would be using an F450, although technically a 350 might squeek by.....
Terry and Jo said
08:20 PM May 26, 2009
Dan,
Since you posted this in the Tow Vehicle category, I am presuming that you have read some of the previous posts. Specifically one I posted entitled "Tow Vehicle Research Results" and the one previous to yours by "dreamerbob" have information that I have gleaned after about a year of looking, reading, and brain picking.
Thus, I'll try to not repeat too much that I wrote in those threads. However, I will comment on something. In "dreamerbob's" thread, I mentioned that with a Ford F350 (based on the 2009 Ford Superduty brochure) it would need to have the 4:30 rear end with the "Tow Boss" feature in order to have a Gross Combined Vehicle Weight rating of 26,000 pounds. Based on your 17,500 GVWR on the trailer, that would only leave you with about 8,500 pounds that your truck could weigh before going over the GCVW rating.
The F450 comes with the 4:30 rear end and a GCVW rating of 33,000 pounds. With the F450, the truck could weigh as much as 15,500 pounds without going over the GCVW.
I should add that some have written that they have no trouble pulling a heavy trailer with an F350 (we are looking at a fifth wheel with a GVWR of 18,500 pounds), but having driven semi-truck/tractor rigs, I firmly believe in one having a towing vehicle capable of stopping a heavy trailer as well.
Now, having NEVER owned a dually and weighing it, I have no idea of the actual GVWR of the F450 except to go by the brochure. It states the GVWR for the truck to be 14,500 pounds.
One thing I should add is that the F450 apparently ONLY comes in a "Crew Cab" model. Thus, it has 4 doors. If you can go by a Ford dealer and check out an F350, you can get a close approximation as to what the F450 would be like. Not many dealers actually have an F450 on the lot. At least, not here in Oklahoma.
The wife and I are looking at the "Lariat" package with the truck, mostly because of the extra features of the interior.
Good luck in the searching.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Tuesday 26th of May 2009 08:36:25 PM
NorCal Dan said
08:02 AM May 27, 2009
We were thinking of getting a FW and I like the KZ floorplan, but I had no idea how much truck it would take to safely haul it. I want to start putting some figures together to see if this is something we want to do. I seriously doubt I can talk the DW into switching but you never know... :)
Dixie said
03:42 PM May 27, 2009
Hi Dan
I was wondering why you want to change to a motorhome? Do you think it cost a lot more
to have a motorhome over a fifth wheel? We have not purchased an rv yet, waiting for the house to sell, so we would be interested in your viewpoint about motorhomes...FW's...
Whatever you decide to do we sure hope you will keep fulltiming and keep your weather site, it is real nice.
Mel
NorCal Dan said
08:54 PM May 27, 2009
I have been thinking of trading for a FW and am in the very early stages of research. We love our MH but if it becomes impossible to maintain it due to Monaco then I want to have a fallback position.
We are considering FW's for no other reason than we haven't had one of those before and I have found a couple with great looking floorplans. One of the KZ's has a wine rack, fireplace, and a TV that raises out of the credenza. But we haven't looked at any in person yet, there are no KZ dealers close enough to me right now. They look very nice in the brochures :)
So, before I got too deep into this I wanted to get an idea of how much truck it would take to haul one of these units. The problem is DW won't want to go this route if she thinks the truck is to big for her to handle in the Walmart parking lot. She already said no if it requires one of those tractor trucks.
Complicating the issue is I want a rig that is insulated enough for winter living as I like snow (having grown up in SWNY where we had lake effect snow storms) and skiing and snowmobiles and ice fishing and ...
And on the flip side, if we have to settle for a smaller FW to get the weight down so we can use a smaller truck then DW won't go for the small living space.
We have no plans to stop full-timing...and as long as the weather equipment holds up I will continue my hobby of reporting the weather. Thanks for the kind words Mel.
Terry and Jo said
08:52 AM May 28, 2009
Dan,
According to the K-Z brochures, the Escalade has roof insulation rated at R-21, wall insulation rated at R-14, and floor insulation rated at R28.
We are looking at a Mobile Suites 38TKSB3 (or possibly the extra slide version 38TKSB4) made by DRV Suites. These models also have a "disappearing" television plus a built-in desk between the entertainment center and the kitchen bar. There is a picture of that area in their brochure at this link:
This year they updated their insulation and added a "Canadian Package" which puts in two 30,000btu furnaces and extra insulation around some of the drain pipe. DRV's roof insulation is rated at R-25, the wall insulaton at R-16, and the floor insulation at R-29.
DRV makes three models of fivers. Top of the line is the Elite Suites, the midrange models are the Mobile Suites, and the lesser models are the Select Suites. While the Elite is really "sweet" it is also heavier and costs more. The Mobile Suites 38TKSB3 that we are looking at has a GVWR of about 18,500 pounds. That can still be pulled by a Ford F450. There is access to the 2009 Ford Superduty brochures at this link:
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Thursday 28th of May 2009 08:56:43 AM
NorCal Dan said
09:39 AM May 28, 2009
Just so I am clear on this...the regular cab F350 DRW 4X2 is rated at 18,800 with the auto transmission. The GVWR of the KZ is 17,500. Assuming the trailer is not over gross it looks like the F350 is rated to haul the weight. I can see that it only leaves 1,300 lbs. difference...is that not enough of a safety margin? Or am I not using the correct numbers? Maybe I am assuming too much here. The Ford chart specifically says for towing a FW. I would have thought pin weight would be important but I didn't see it mentioned.
Man this stuff is confusing...I am going to re-read some of your other posts and see if anything "clicks" but so far I am not getting it...
Terry and Jo said
10:50 AM May 28, 2009
Dan,
While the "towing weight" is of interest, don't pay too much attention to it. It merely gives an "ballpark" idea of what you can tow. You need to pay more attention to GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) on the truck and fifth wheel plus GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight) ratings.
GVWR is the weight of the truck including all fluids, cargo, passengers, etc. This weight must include the "Pin Weight" of the fifth wheel. Once you get the GVWR for the truck, including the pin weight in the bed, you want to make sure that the weight added to the GVWR of the fifth wheel does not exceed the GCWR.
The regular cab F350 with 4:30 rear end and Tow Boss has a GCWR of 26,000 pounds. The chart to the right of the towing weight information in the brochure shows the F350 at a GVWR of 12,400 pounds (allowing for 5300 pounds of cargo weight).
IF the truck GVWR reaches 12,400 pounds and you add the 17,500 for the Escalade, you come up to 29,900 pounds. IF the 12,400 figure is right, then your GCWR would be more than 3000 pounds over the rated GCWR for the F350.
What would be really nice is if some of the readers of these forums would answer the question of how much their F350 or F450 actually weighs when loaded. That would help us come up with an idea of what some "actual" GVWR's are for those models.
In fact, I'll post that as a separate question. Both of us can keep track of the answers to get a better idea of actual weights.
Good luck.
Terry
wmalefyt said
11:36 AM May 28, 2009
Terry and Jo wrote:
Dan,
While the "towing weight" is of interest, don't pay too much attention to it. It merely gives an "ballpark" idea of what you can tow. You need to pay more attention to GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) on the truck and fifth wheel plus GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight) ratings.
GVWR is the weight of the truck including all fluids, cargo, passengers, etc. This weight must include the "Pin Weight" of the fifth wheel. Once you get the GVWR for the truck, including the pin weight in the bed, you want to make sure that the weight added to the GVWR of the fifth wheel does not exceed the GCWR.
The regular cab F350 with 4:30 rear end and Tow Boss has a GCWR of 26,000 pounds. The chart to the right of the towing weight information in the brochure shows the F350 at a GVWR of 12,400 pounds (allowing for 5300 pounds of cargo weight).
IF the truck GVWR reaches 12,400 pounds and you add the 17,500 for the Escalade, you come up to 29,900 pounds. IF the 12,400 figure is right, then your GCWR would be more than 3000 pounds over the rated GCWR for the F350.
What would be really nice is if some of the readers of these forums would answer the question of how much their F350 or F450 actually weighs when loaded. That would help us come up with an idea of what some "actual" GVWR's are for those models.
In fact, I'll post that as a separate question. Both of us can keep track of the answers to get a better idea of actual weights.
Good luck.
Terry
Just to clarify, GVWR stands for Gross Vehicle Weight Rating which is determined by the manufacturer. The GVWR should not be exceeded for obvious safety reasons. GVW would be the actual gross vehicle weight as measured on a scale with all fluids, passengers, cargo on board.
NorCal Dan said
09:12 PM May 28, 2009
After doing a lot of research today I think I need some actual weights to do the calculations. But it is obvious that nothing less than an F450 would suffice. And MDT would be better, but I know the DW won't go for that...
Racerguy said
09:32 PM May 28, 2009
Looks to me there are 2 threads discussing the same subject.Check out F350 and F450 gross vehicle weights under this topic.
-- Edited by Racerguy on Thursday 28th of May 2009 09:39:22 PM
GVWR 17,500
Dry Hitch 2,952
Dry Axle 11,959
Also, are the KZ's rated for winter living?
Dan,
Since you posted this in the Tow Vehicle category, I am presuming that you have read some of the previous posts. Specifically one I posted entitled "Tow Vehicle Research Results" and the one previous to yours by "dreamerbob" have information that I have gleaned after about a year of looking, reading, and brain picking.
Thus, I'll try to not repeat too much that I wrote in those threads. However, I will comment on something. In "dreamerbob's" thread, I mentioned that with a Ford F350 (based on the 2009 Ford Superduty brochure) it would need to have the 4:30 rear end with the "Tow Boss" feature in order to have a Gross Combined Vehicle Weight rating of 26,000 pounds. Based on your 17,500 GVWR on the trailer, that would only leave you with about 8,500 pounds that your truck could weigh before going over the GCVW rating.
The F450 comes with the 4:30 rear end and a GCVW rating of 33,000 pounds. With the F450, the truck could weigh as much as 15,500 pounds without going over the GCVW.
I should add that some have written that they have no trouble pulling a heavy trailer with an F350 (we are looking at a fifth wheel with a GVWR of 18,500 pounds), but having driven semi-truck/tractor rigs, I firmly believe in one having a towing vehicle capable of stopping a heavy trailer as well.
Now, having NEVER owned a dually and weighing it, I have no idea of the actual GVWR of the F450 except to go by the brochure. It states the GVWR for the truck to be 14,500 pounds.
One thing I should add is that the F450 apparently ONLY comes in a "Crew Cab" model. Thus, it has 4 doors. If you can go by a Ford dealer and check out an F350, you can get a close approximation as to what the F450 would be like. Not many dealers actually have an F450 on the lot. At least, not here in Oklahoma.
The wife and I are looking at the "Lariat" package with the truck, mostly because of the extra features of the interior.
Good luck in the searching.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Tuesday 26th of May 2009 08:36:25 PM
According to the K-Z brochures, the Escalade has roof insulation rated at R-21, wall insulation rated at R-14, and floor insulation rated at R28.
We are looking at a Mobile Suites 38TKSB3 (or possibly the extra slide version 38TKSB4) made by DRV Suites. These models also have a "disappearing" television plus a built-in desk between the entertainment center and the kitchen bar. There is a picture of that area in their brochure at this link:
http://www.drvsuites.com/brochures/DRV09_Brochure.pdf
This year they updated their insulation and added a "Canadian Package" which puts in two 30,000btu furnaces and extra insulation around some of the drain pipe. DRV's roof insulation is rated at R-25, the wall insulaton at R-16, and the floor insulation at R-29.
DRV makes three models of fivers. Top of the line is the Elite Suites, the midrange models are the Mobile Suites, and the lesser models are the Select Suites. While the Elite is really "sweet" it is also heavier and costs more. The Mobile Suites 38TKSB3 that we are looking at has a GVWR of about 18,500 pounds. That can still be pulled by a Ford F450. There is access to the 2009 Ford Superduty brochures at this link:
https://secure.fordvehicles.com/trucks/superduty/brochures/index.asp
DRV's website is at this link:
http://www.drvsuites.com/
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Thursday 28th of May 2009 08:56:43 AM
Dan,
While the "towing weight" is of interest, don't pay too much attention to it. It merely gives an "ballpark" idea of what you can tow. You need to pay more attention to GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) on the truck and fifth wheel plus GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight) ratings.
GVWR is the weight of the truck including all fluids, cargo, passengers, etc. This weight must include the "Pin Weight" of the fifth wheel. Once you get the GVWR for the truck, including the pin weight in the bed, you want to make sure that the weight added to the GVWR of the fifth wheel does not exceed the GCWR.
The regular cab F350 with 4:30 rear end and Tow Boss has a GCWR of 26,000 pounds. The chart to the right of the towing weight information in the brochure shows the F350 at a GVWR of 12,400 pounds (allowing for 5300 pounds of cargo weight).
IF the truck GVWR reaches 12,400 pounds and you add the 17,500 for the Escalade, you come up to 29,900 pounds. IF the 12,400 figure is right, then your GCWR would be more than 3000 pounds over the rated GCWR for the F350.
What would be really nice is if some of the readers of these forums would answer the question of how much their F350 or F450 actually weighs when loaded. That would help us come up with an idea of what some "actual" GVWR's are for those models.
In fact, I'll post that as a separate question. Both of us can keep track of the answers to get a better idea of actual weights.
Good luck.
Terry
-- Edited by Racerguy on Thursday 28th of May 2009 09:39:22 PM