Hi Howard 

I know you are asking Howard, but I'll put in my 2 cents....

If you KNOW you are going to boondock extensively and you know you are going to put in a good-sized solar system then consider the virtues of a smaller portable generator instead of a built in unit.

The following comments assume the use of a protable Honda or Yamaha inverter-based generator. These are very quiet and reliable, and start very easily.

- it cost considerably less.
 - you are using it primarily to suplement solar charging, not as a primary method of power.
- remote electric start is available in the 3000 watt category.
- small gensets are available in the 1000 watt range, which will charge batteries but not power much else.
- generators in the 2000 watt range will power most microwaves if that is a factor.
- the 3000 watt generators with remote start are too heavy to move around much. These are typically mounted in a truck bed and run from there. They will run MOST ACs on 5ers, but not all.
- normally you do not need any climate control like AC when boondocking. This is the typical case but your needs may vary.
- much of the time you will not need the generator, but it is still convenient.
- a portable is not as convenient to use as a built in generator. Even the remote start models are not as convenient since they still need gassing.
- if you go with a built in, consider a gas model if you can...it is more convenient to fuel than propane, and the fuel lasts longer typically. But not all manuf. will do this.
- portables can run off of bigger tanks than their built in capacity. Just use a marine tank to feed it.
- you need to design the entire system first, and factor in the type genset you will use into the design. When we designed Howards system we factored in solar from the beginning, even though Howard did not think he would "go solar". That made it easy to add later. Do ing a "system design" is the MOST important aspect of implementing a power strategy for boondocking.

Those are just SOME random comments. Howard can expand.

Hi Dixie, Good questions. I'm not sure if I have good answers. Had I known how little we would use a generator, even before the solar installation, we probably would not have bought it up front. We rarely used it. We could have saved the cash and the additional weight in the rig and had the additional storage space where the generator is located. We could have used the money and applied it toward the upgraded batteries, inverter, and solar panels. And we would have just gotten a small portable generator to recharge batteries on those cloudy days or parked under trees when the solar panels just aren't enough. At least that's what I think would have done. But we still haven't done enough boondocking to make any definitive statements about the generator. When we need it, it sure is nice to just hit a button on the wall to turn it off and on. We don't have to drag it out of storage and hook it up or go outside to turn it off or on or add fuel. Push a button and it works using the propane from our 40 pound cylinders. Being a new fifth wheel with generator prep, I'm glad we had it installed by the manufacturer before delivery. I'm just not keen on after market installations of components so integrated into all the systems. A lot depends on your anticipated travel habits. If you plan to boondock while traveling in rest areas, Walmart parking lots, Flying Js, etc., the onboard generator is probably a good idea in my opinion. If you are going to boondock in the wilderness out west, get a good battery bank, solar panels, and an inverter with a small, portable generator as a back-up battery charger. Of course, if you think you will be boondocking in 90 - 100 degree temps, you might want to splurge on a larger generator so you can run the air conditioner a little bit each day. If you are going to boondock in the east where it might be more shaded and solar panels blocked, you might need to use a generator more often to charge batteries and you might want to get a bigger one. In summary, we don't need the 5500 watt generator we have. And we might do things differently if we were starting over. But we don't regret buying it up front. I'm glad it's turned out the way it has. Though we could have saved some money, we are prepared for just about any situation and it's a sweet set-up.

Here's our experience with a generator installed in the 5th wheel. We are heavy electrical users. If the temperature goes over 68 the air conditioning get's turned on. So if we are boondocking that means the generator is used. In addition, my wife is a heavy small appliance user and gourmet cook. So the generator is needed to power multiple appliances. And we have a washer and dryer, occaisionally when boondocking, provided we have enough water, we will run a load of laundry towards the end of the trip to get ready to go home and put the RV in storage. The generator was an added necessity for us. That being said and now that the Onan generator has stopped functioning. I purchased two 2000 watt portable Honda generators with a parallel kit. I find this setup is more flexible. I take both generators if we are boondocking in a location where it gets warm. Or just one if we are going to a cooler area. Or none if we will have hook ups. Plus if the power goes out at home or I need portable power, I can use one or both. The two were less than the quote I received to repair my dead Onan. As an added benefit, once I removed the Onan and fuel tank, I'll gain some additional basement storage. You need to consider securing the portable generator, they are one of the most stolen items from campsites. I put mine away at night, locked up in the truck and use a heavy chain and thick cable to lock them to the frame of the 5th wheel during the day. I figure the two separate locking systems will slow someone down enough to be noticed by other campers. Portable is the way to go, unless you want the convenience of an installed unit and push button start. Although the Honda 3000i can be equipped with a remote pushbutton start so it would be a little more convenient to use.

Thanks Howard, Jack and Bear

Dixie wrote:

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Will a 3000 Honda run both AC units efficiently in a fifth wheel?  Or would we need 2 3000's?  

Considering our usage, how much money are we talking about to buy a good generator and solar setup?  How much does it cost to get a system design?  

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One AC will draw around 15amps at 120v. Check your AC spec plate. That's 15 x 120 =  1,800 watts. So you can't run 2 ACs off of a single 3,000watt genset. That 1,800 watts is also the "running" load. The initial "startup" load is much higher and this is where small gensets often fail when running ACs in that they can't provide enough "startup" current. Yes a single Honda 2000i can "run" an AC but it will certainly most likely NOT start an AC.

FWIW, lugging around 2 Honda 3000i's is a pretty big undertaking!  Solar will NOT power ACs, BTW, (unless you run swamp coolers).

Try www.amsolar.com for your solar design/cost info.

My kudos also to Bjoyce for taking the time to write up the solar answers. He speak'a da truth'a without fail.

I can not stress enough how important it is for the user to understand the electrical design and the trade offs made. IMO - and I have done LOTS of designs and installs - no one should abdicate all of the design to another without understanding it. (Even Howard was very involved in the research and decisions/trade off involved in designing and implementing his system :)) You can look on my website and it can start you out, but it is really intended for someone with some knowledge first. No manufacturer, with the possible exceptions of Horizons, will build a very good boondocking rig without extensive user input/specifications/demands, and constant oversight. That is just the way it is. I would encourage you to try to understand at least the basics so that you can make rational decisions. Posting specific questions on the forum will get you some good answers. As to the generator - now we know a little more about how you will use your rig.... IF you are going to boondock in hot weather for long period (like in KY or ATL) then I would recommend that you get a built in genset, NOT a portable. You are going to need a good sized generator, and they are best and most practical permanently installed. Still try for gas if you can, since it is far easier to fuel. If you feel you are not going to need AC much, or at all, then the portable is the way to go. An in-between solution is the large portable...like the Honda 3000 class. It should start and run ONE AC without a problem, but can not handle 2 reliably.

Great input above so just to add a bit of info.  We dry camp extensively and fire up the little Honda 1000 once a month for maintenance, to run the small chain saw, or the waffle iron.  Solar does the rest in 95%+ of our dry camp experience.  Several cloudy days and the Honda gets a little exercise.

We do not even think about dry camping when it is hot and humid enough to need AC.  Even if we had a sizable generator it is too expensive to run enough to make a difference.  That is the cost effective time to have hookups where you stay for more than a day.

The same can be said for extremely cold sub freezing weather on a daily basis.  Electric is more often than not the cheaper heater in many campground situations.  Propane and gasoline are generally much more expensive.

Happy RVing,
Larry and Jacki