Starting a diesel after 30-45 dys of not running and cold (20-25 degrees) temps
LDM said
07:54 PM Nov 18, 2008
I have a cummins 350 diesel ...I store it for in the winter for 4-6 months. I plan on starting it approx every month...any thing special I need to do? I understand the battery issues and have taken care of that side..I am more interested in anything special anyone does in a similar situation. I also will use the cold temp engine heater prior to starting...anything else?
Luvglass said
09:59 PM Nov 18, 2008
Probably not a bad idea to add some anti gelling fluid if it's going to be below freezing. You can find this at any auto supply store.
RVDude said
10:01 PM Nov 18, 2008
Try and fill the fuel tank with a local supply of diesel as late in the season as you can. They alter diesel fuels based on local climate and getting the local "winter" fuel will have all the anti-gel stuff already in it. Other than that don't forget to prehaet the motor well, if you have it, prior to turning it over...
-- Edited by RVDude at 22:02, 2008-11-18
Jim said
03:00 AM Nov 19, 2008
I agree on filling the fuel tank up, as this will cut down on condensation. If it's only going to sit for four to six months, I'm not sure I would start it at all. If you are going to start it, take it out and give it a good run on the road, thats a good thing. But you sound like you may just start it, let it idle, and then shut it down.
Starting an engine, especially a diesel, and just letting it get warm and then shutting them down is not good for them. It causes condensation to build up in the crankcase as the engine never gets hot enough to burn off the moisture. The water then gets suspended in the oil and you loose lubricity. The same condensation problems will occur in the exhaust system.
I'm not an expert on diesels, this is just my opinion. I would ask a good diesel mechanic and get his opinion. An International dealer or Freightliner dealer would give you the "scoop". Don't ask the salesman, go to the service desk.
Jack Mayer said
08:41 AM Nov 19, 2008
What Jim said is correct about diesel engines.
This is a borderline call for me, also. I probably would not start it at all. For sure, not for 4 months. Do NOT start it and just idle it.
And for all you diesel guys. You do NOT have to let your diesel get up to operating temp before driving it. Just drive it gently for the first couple of miles and it will be there. SO sitting in the RV park for 20 minutes idling your engine is unnecessary.
RVDude said
10:25 AM Nov 19, 2008
What Jack/Jim said, don't start it for the sake of starting it. You must drive it for reasons above. Don't idle it either. Drive it. If you can't drive it no need to start it.
thebearII said
10:27 AM Nov 19, 2008
Jack,
I'm glad you wrote about not needing to let a diesel warm up. Some of us like to sleep beyond 8AM. Between the noise and the fumes it's difficult.
I hate waking up to diesel fumes in the morning at a campground while someone lets their diesel MH or pickup sit and idle for 10 to 20 minutes before driving off.
Have some consideration for others, we need our beauty sleep.
It's such a misconception...there's no need to warm it up. Like Jack says, just go easy on it for a few miles.
Sorry for the rant, I must have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed.
-- Edited by thebearII at 10:28, 2008-11-19
Jack Mayer said
12:00 PM Nov 19, 2008
The ONLY reason to let a diesel sit and idle at all is to let the air system "air up". Pickups do not have air systems, and most motorhomes only have air parking brakes. They air up pretty fast. Even an HDT that has lost most of its air supply will air up in 3-4 minutes or less. So there is simply no reason for those idling diesels.....no technical reason that is.
dream reachers said
08:44 PM Nov 19, 2008
What jack said is true if you have plenty of room to pull out on a street or hiway. Don't expect to have good acceleration until the engine is up to heat .
Niles and Deb said
09:23 AM Nov 22, 2008
Guess I will put my two cents in, I drive a truck for a living and have logged well over two and half million miles on a (HDT-Class 8-semi truck) and currently own three. I have driven cats, detroits and cummins. I have owned 15 different trucks in my brief life as a trucker, had 4 different employees in 30 years. Just a little history about myself, I'm pretty sure no one cares about, I would fire anyone who doesn't let the motor warm up a little I'm not saying to running temp, but it does need some warm up time, you have to get the oil to a warmer temp so it flows, and I'm talking about cold starts not 70 and 80 degree temp starts. You guys driving HDT's when buying used are buying my used equipment, hope you're happy with it, as it sounds like I took better care of it. As for starting a engine in cold storage, let it be it doesn't need started, I would have the tanks full because of condensation. If you're not going to run it till warm weather why do you need anti-gell in it. Today's engine's run warm fuel back to the tanks from the fuel pump if you start it and don't run it for a while you get warm fuel mixing with cold fuel causing condensation in the tanks where you get the water that freezes. Make sure you have good batteries and don't have a draw on them as this would discharge them and then they would freeze again thinking you are talking about cold storage. You also have to think if you're going to drive this thing, think about you're air dryer system, you can get moisture in it causing problems in cold weather if driving it for short periods. So JMO let it set for four months and when you're ready to use it, go get it out of storage and let it run for awhile and then enjoy your truck. Guess that's more than 2 cents worth!!
Jack Mayer said
06:55 PM Nov 22, 2008
Niles, I agree with what you said about warmup....it needs to warm up a little. But not 20 minutes idling trying to achieve running temps...that was my point.
I generally start the truck, let it air up, do my walkaround etc. that takes about 5 minutes. By then the gauge is starting up and running it gently for a mile or so gets it all the way up there. I run a Cummins, and I believe that is what they recommend.
JayKim-no regrets said
06:28 PM Mar 6, 2012
I realise this is an older thread, but I didn't want to start a new one when this is the kind of questions I had:)
I am trying to do as much research as I can 'before' we buy. Have been reading lots of info about diesel pushers lately, this is what we are leaning toward, I realise it is a personal choice and there is no 'one size fits all', Our plan is to buy a DP in the next 6 months or so, then move onto the local base famcamp, we will most likely stay there for at least 6 maybe 12 months. My worry is, will this sitting around in a semi permanent spot be detrimental to the DP? We will most likely be able to do some moving around, but i'm thinking long weekends at the most. This is the only thing that is making me second guess our choice and being pulled back into looking at used 5'ers!.........What would you guys suggest?
2nd part of my question concerns mileage on used DPs, have seen lots of older ones for sale at reasonable prices, the mileage on some of them concerns me a bit, would it worry you that a 2000 DP had only been driven for 30 to 40 thousand miles? or even less. thanks for any help huggs kim x
Delaine and Lindy said
06:58 PM Mar 6, 2012
Been around Diesel in some form all my life, unless your going to drive the Truck for 10 miles or so I wouldn't even start it at all. However if your pulling hard never ever should down a Diesel for at least 3 to 4 minutes to allow the Turbo to cool down. When I was running a Class 8 Truck (over the road) depending on the weather I very seldom shut down the engine (2 times a week) for refueling, it was my home away from home and I stayed warm or cool as I would in the stick house....... The average fuel use was about 1 gallon per hour.....
None use for extended times is not good for any engine, seals etc. tend to dry up however todays seal are much better than older builds.... You might look into a tag along or 5th wheel. Will be much less expense and much cheaper... But its a choice.... Good Luck. Happy Trails.....
Trabuco said
07:20 PM Mar 6, 2012
Kim,
We are about a year ahead of you guys on the research of a DP. We bought and 05' Monaco last sept. I was also concerned about a diesel since I had never owned one before. Our DP had 21k on it when we bought it, no issues with it at all to this point. As far DP's go it's pretty hard to find one with 50k + on them, most folks just don't drive them that much.
I did a a lot of my research on the FMCA website and asked a lot of questions of their diesel "experts". The main thing they all said if you start the engine you have to drive it. Most of them recommended 25 miles or so. The key is to get the engine up to normal operating temperature. Idling won't get the temperature up. Basiclly what has already been mentioned. After 6 to 8 weeks of sitting I start our DP up and take it for a drive. Once we go full time in a few months that won't be necessary
I would go with the rig you want. Chances are if you buy a 5er you're probably going to want to tow with diesel in the truck you purchase. Of course this depends on the size of the 5er.
Terry and Jo said
08:35 PM Mar 6, 2012
Kim,
You are getting good advice from the others in that one should occasionally start and run a diesel at least up to operating temperatures, which does mean driving it for some miles. While our RV is a fifth wheel, I make it a point to drive our F450 about once every 2 or 3 weeks. In our case, we drive it to church and back.
Diesels are good engines in that they are designed for more miles. If one finds a motorhome with real low miles, especially if it is an older unit, make sure that a mechanic checks out the engine and other drive train components. It isn't so much a wear and tear issue, but one of seals getting old and cracking for lack of lubrication.
Diesels are designed for hundreds of thousands of miles of use (or more), so one with 40,000 or 50,000 miles is really only getting broke in. As for a 2000 year model with 40,000 miles, that works out to about 3300 miles per year. If that was steady use, it should be fine. If it has sat for a number of those years, things begin to dry out and maybe even rust.
As for choosing a fifth wheel over a DP because of this issue, the only advantage would be that it would be easier to just drive the truck for some miles. Whether a fifth wheel or a DP, the engine needs to be operated.
Terry
JayKim-no regrets said
09:17 PM Mar 6, 2012
Thanx for the responses you guys:) We really would prefer to have a DP for when we do get to go full time, so I guess we just have to make sure we keep doing the research as far as finding 'the one'. We are definitely going to have a full check up done on anything we seriously consider buying, we don't want to make the mistake of buying a 'lemon'! Can't afford to do that.
We are starting to get pretty excited about actually going out and spending some time in some of the DP's on our 'wish list', now I just have to try and be patient until Jay comes home......i'm trying
bjoyce said
10:54 PM Mar 6, 2012
Having spent time at snowbird parks many winters I was told that a diesel should be driven up to operating temperature about every three months. Monthly is fine, daily is fine, and six months is probably too long, so they use three months. This also applies to a diesel generator, which needs to be run under load (not just charging the batteries) for at least half an hour. Anti-algae and anti-gel additives can also help, but you should still make those engines work. LP generators should be exercised at least every three months, that is the recommendation for stationary ones by houses. Gas generators and engines should be run monthly because the inside of the engine can build up shellac. Use them or lose them.
Bill Adams said
11:43 PM Mar 6, 2012
JayKim-no regrets wrote:
I realise this is an older thread, but I didn't want to start a new one when this is the kind of questions I had:)
I am trying to do as much research as I can 'before' we buy. Have been reading lots of info about diesel pushers lately, this is what we are leaning toward, I realise it is a personal choice and there is no 'one size fits all', Our plan is to buy a DP in the next 6 months or so, then move onto the local base famcamp, we will most likely stay there for at least 6 maybe 12 months. My worry is, will this sitting around in a semi permanent spot be detrimental to the DP? We will most likely be able to do some moving around, but i'm thinking long weekends at the most. This is the only thing that is making me second guess our choice and being pulled back into looking at used 5'ers!.........What would you guys suggest?
2nd part of my question concerns mileage on used DPs, have seen lots of older ones for sale at reasonable prices, the mileage on some of them concerns me a bit, would it worry you that a 2000 DP had only been driven for 30 to 40 thousand miles? or even less. thanks for any help huggs kim x
If it were me (and it's not!) and I was going to buy something to park and live in for 6-12 months in one location I would be looking at the floor plan and the size over anything else. If you could get a used 5th wheel at a good price you could always trade that for a DP in a year when you want to hit the road. In the meantime, you want to buy comfort and the type of engine (or lack thereof) has nothing at all to do with that.
JayKim-no regrets said
12:08 AM Mar 7, 2012
Thank you Bill J, I appreciate the response, I am thinking that we should be able to take a decent run out in the DP at least every three months or so, even if just for a long weekend. We will use the generator too, Jay likes the idea of boondocking, so i'm sure we will be doing some of that
Bill A, I would love to be able to get a 5er for the time we are sitting/waiting to go full time,(then trade it in for a DP) but that really isn't practical for us, financially at least. If we were to get a 5er, we would need a bigger truck, we have a dodge 150 right now and that would be no good for the size we would want/need. If we got a 5er, that would be our full time rig for the foreseeable future. I'm really not opposed to going that route, I know that a lot of them have bigger living space and may even be more of an advantage for the kind of travel we may end up doing. It's good to get thoughts from you guys on here that have a lot more knowledge about full timing etc. This forun and all the info on here is invaluable to us. Thanx for sharing guys huggs kim x
dream reachers said
07:14 AM Mar 7, 2012
We had a 35' fifth wheel for over 3 years of fulltime living. We would have kept it if we were staying in one spot for long periods of time. We went to a motor home pulling a toad because it was more comfortable to drive and ride in. It is more expensive to own and operate but we love it as we travel many miles each year. It is great that everyone can choose what works best for them.
NorCal Dan said
06:15 PM Mar 7, 2012
As full-timing workampers we drive our coach from job site to job site. Normally we move twice a year. That means the coach spends a lot of time not moving. I do not run the engine (Cummins ISL) while parked in an RV park. I do exercise the genny every 3 months, or sooner if the park loses power. Cummins recommends not to run the engine unless you can get it up to operating temperature.
JayKim-no regrets said
06:40 PM Mar 7, 2012
NorCal Dan wrote:
As full-timing workampers we drive our coach from job site to job site. Normally we move twice a year. That means the coach spends a lot of time not moving. I do not run the engine (Cummins ISL) while parked in an RV park. I do exercise the genny every 3 months, or sooner if the park loses power. Cummins recommends not to run the engine unless you can get it up to operating temperature.
Thank you Dan, that is really helpful info. I take it you haven't had any issues by not moving the rig more often?
NorCal Dan said
04:28 AM Mar 8, 2012
No problems with the drive-train. Can't say the same for the Norcold 1210 ;)
Even though the engine oil is capable of going 10k miles between changes, Cummins has an annual recommendation. Sometimes I only have a couple thousand miles on the oil, but I still take the rig in for it's annual oil/filter/lube work (including the genny).
-- Edited by RVDude at 22:02, 2008-11-18
This is a borderline call for me, also. I probably would not start it at all. For sure, not for 4 months. Do NOT start it and just idle it.
And for all you diesel guys. You do NOT have to let your diesel get up to operating temp before driving it. Just drive it gently for the first couple of miles and it will be there. SO sitting in the RV park for 20 minutes idling your engine is unnecessary.
I'm glad you wrote about not needing to let a diesel warm up. Some of us like to sleep beyond 8AM. Between the noise and the fumes it's difficult.
I hate waking up to diesel fumes in the morning at a campground while someone lets their diesel MH or pickup sit and idle for 10 to 20 minutes before driving off.
Have some consideration for others, we need our beauty sleep.
It's such a misconception...there's no need to warm it up. Like Jack says, just go easy on it for a few miles.
Sorry for the rant, I must have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed.
-- Edited by thebearII at 10:28, 2008-11-19
I generally start the truck, let it air up, do my walkaround etc. that takes about 5 minutes. By then the gauge is starting up and running it gently for a mile or so gets it all the way up there. I run a Cummins, and I believe that is what they recommend.
I am trying to do as much research as I can 'before' we buy. Have been reading lots of info about diesel pushers lately, this is what we are leaning toward, I realise it is a personal choice and there is no 'one size fits all', Our plan is to buy a DP in the next 6 months or so, then move onto the local base famcamp, we will most likely stay there for at least 6 maybe 12 months. My worry is, will this sitting around in a semi permanent spot be detrimental to the DP? We will most likely be able to do some moving around, but i'm thinking long weekends at the most. This is the only thing that is making me second guess our choice and being pulled back into looking at used 5'ers!.........What would you guys suggest?
2nd part of my question concerns mileage on used DPs, have seen lots of older ones for sale at reasonable prices, the mileage on some of them concerns me a bit, would it worry you that a 2000 DP had only been driven for 30 to 40 thousand miles? or even less.
thanks for any help
huggs kim x
None use for extended times is not good for any engine, seals etc. tend to dry up however todays seal are much better than older builds.... You might look into a tag along or 5th wheel. Will be much less expense and much cheaper... But its a choice.... Good Luck. Happy Trails.....
We are about a year ahead of you guys on the research of a DP. We bought and 05' Monaco last sept. I was also concerned about a diesel since I had never owned one before. Our DP had 21k on it when we bought it, no issues with it at all to this point. As far DP's go it's pretty hard to find one with 50k + on them, most folks just don't drive them that much.
I did a a lot of my research on the FMCA website and asked a lot of questions of their diesel "experts". The main thing they all said if you start the engine you have to drive it. Most of them recommended 25 miles or so. The key is to get the engine up to normal operating temperature. Idling won't get the temperature up. Basiclly what has already been mentioned. After 6 to 8 weeks of sitting I start our DP up and take it for a drive. Once we go full time in a few months that won't be necessary
I would go with the rig you want. Chances are if you buy a 5er you're probably going to want to tow with diesel in the truck you purchase. Of course this depends on the size of the 5er.
Kim,
You are getting good advice from the others in that one should occasionally start and run a diesel at least up to operating temperatures, which does mean driving it for some miles. While our RV is a fifth wheel, I make it a point to drive our F450 about once every 2 or 3 weeks. In our case, we drive it to church and back.
Diesels are good engines in that they are designed for more miles. If one finds a motorhome with real low miles, especially if it is an older unit, make sure that a mechanic checks out the engine and other drive train components. It isn't so much a wear and tear issue, but one of seals getting old and cracking for lack of lubrication.
Diesels are designed for hundreds of thousands of miles of use (or more), so one with 40,000 or 50,000 miles is really only getting broke in. As for a 2000 year model with 40,000 miles, that works out to about 3300 miles per year. If that was steady use, it should be fine. If it has sat for a number of those years, things begin to dry out and maybe even rust.
As for choosing a fifth wheel over a DP because of this issue, the only advantage would be that it would be easier to just drive the truck for some miles. Whether a fifth wheel or a DP, the engine needs to be operated.
Terry
We are starting to get pretty excited about actually going out and spending some time in some of the DP's on our 'wish list', now I just have to try and be patient until Jay comes home......i'm trying
Use them or lose them.
If it were me (and it's not!) and I was going to buy something to park and live in for 6-12 months in one location I would be looking at the floor plan and the size over anything else. If you could get a used 5th wheel at a good price you could always trade that for a DP in a year when you want to hit the road. In the meantime, you want to buy comfort and the type of engine (or lack thereof) has nothing at all to do with that.
Bill A, I would love to be able to get a 5er for the time we are sitting/waiting to go full time,(then trade it in for a DP) but that really isn't practical for us, financially at least. If we were to get a 5er, we would need a bigger truck, we have a dodge 150 right now and that would be no good for the size we would want/need. If we got a 5er, that would be our full time rig for the foreseeable future. I'm really not opposed to going that route, I know that a lot of them have bigger living space and may even be more of an advantage for the kind of travel we may end up doing. It's good to get thoughts from you guys on here that have a lot more knowledge about full timing etc. This forun and all the info on here is invaluable to us. Thanx for sharing guys
huggs kim x
Thank you Dan, that is really helpful info. I take it you haven't had any issues by not moving the rig more often?
Even though the engine oil is capable of going 10k miles between changes, Cummins has an annual recommendation. Sometimes I only have a couple thousand miles on the oil, but I still take the rig in for it's annual oil/filter/lube work (including the genny).