When we log onto the campgrounds Free WiFi after entering the code they give you...... Are you secure to do your banking on line etc? Or should we get the internet sat. dish (Datastorm) ? We will be doing everything on line, and this has us concerned.
Before we begin Fulltiming in Spring of 2008.....we need to know about this, and any help and info will be appreciated.
Thanks.
Arlene
-- Edited by Travelin Duo at 15:31, 2007-10-20
bjoyce said
03:14 PM Oct 20, 2007
Your online bank provides the security by using encryption. If the address starts with "https://" instead of "http:://" then you are using a secure and encrypted connection. If you have a lock shown on the bottom of your web browser then you are using a secure and encrypted connection. Doesn't matter if it is satellite internet, a campground wi-fi (which might be using satellite internet), your home DSL, your home cable, Clearwire (Wi-Max), or cellular internet. I haven't heard of a bank or other financial institution without encryption in years if not decades. Business travellers use internet cafes and motel networks all the time to do their banking. This is a non problem and there is nothing special about using the internet from an RV instead of a house, business. or motel room. There is a problem with other computers on your local network being able to see your files, and the local network can include your campground or home neighbors depending on how the internet is supplied. That is why you use a firewall.
Bill Adams said
05:37 PM Oct 20, 2007
As Bill states, the banking sites are fully secure as long as you are already on an HTTPS site (the S is critical). The locked padlock my appear at the top or bottom of your browser window.
Some other sites will request a user name and password in an HTTP link and these sites should not be used in a public arena of any kind. Using public computers anywhere such as Libraries can be dangerous as not only is some of your information saved but a bad guy could attach a keylogger to the computer and everything including your user name and password entered in HTTPS sites would be recorded. If you are using your own computer this is not an issue.
Travelin Duo said
09:19 PM Oct 31, 2007
Bill Sorry for not saying thanks to you sooner, but been under the weather and not on here for a bit.
As always we appreciate your information.
That cleared up our confusion. Larry however does want the SAT
Enjoy the Keys. We go every winter to Key Colony Beach in March. It is off of rte 1 in Marathon, and we stay in a condo oceanfront. Not anymore,,,now that we bought the MH We love the Keys and cannot wait to ge there this year. Have fun......and thanks again. Arlene
Travelin Duo said
09:23 PM Oct 31, 2007
Thank you also, and the same apology for not answering sooner due to sickness. However I am back and was happy to see both your answers. Come Spring Larry will be in touch with you. Thanks again. Arlene
Bill Adams said
04:43 PM Nov 1, 2007
Always glad to help when I can. Sorry to hear about the health problems but I hope all is well and you can get back to the serious business of RVing!
RVDude said
08:38 PM Nov 7, 2007
I thought long and hard before deciding to make this post. In the end I felt it important to increase awareness of internet security issues with this forum family. Please do not read the following and become overly alarmed. Just become more aware and more critical of the choices one makes in using various internet connections. In response to the OP I provide the following insight.
It is a little more complicated than just saying that httpS makes us "all secure" when on a public WiFi or any public network. While it is true that if there is an httpS in the URL the transmission BETWEEN your browser and the web site is encrypted. The problem with a public WiFi network is that your PC is NOT secure from others on that same network. Hence, it is very simple for anyone on a shared WiFi to simply access your computer via the shared network (no browser needed to do this) and plant a keystroke logging program, or a "rootkit" or other nasties without your knowledge on your computer. Then, when you log onto a bank site they can log your userid and password before the browser even encrypts it. A properly maintained and updated firewall can reduce this risk significantly but it is not enough. I certainly do not mean to be alarmist, but planting a keystroke logger program is basic hacking, many firewalls are poorly set up to protect from the local network and given the obviousness of us RVers sitting in a campground eventually doing banking it makes sense that this could make a pubic campground WiFi a veritable goldmine. Be very careful while on public WiFi or even in opening up your personal WiFi to the neighbors. Secure your personal WiFi using at bare minimum with WEP and non-displayed SSID. Go the extra step to add MAC filtering as WEP is actually somewhat vulnerable. We RVers are quite frankly sitting ducks. Anyone can figure out that we will eventually do our banking, all they have to do is plant a nastie and wait.
As the Sgt. in Hill Street Blues would say, "Let's be careful out there!"
Tim & Robyn said
05:32 AM Nov 8, 2007
RVDude is absolutely correct. An 'https' connection to a secure website is not enough if someone has managed to plant a 'nasty' on your machine that, in effect, can commit an 'inside job' before you ever get to the security checkpoint. It helps to be a little paranoid about it. How many times have we read about institutions being hacked and data stolen? You know that they take precautions, and yet it still happens. All the usual caveats apply about being very careful opening email attachments, etc. etc., even if they appear to be from someone you know.... remember that the OTHER guy's machine could have been compromised and their address book stolen so that it looks innocent to you... and on and on. Be very careful. These hackers are very clever - don't underestimate them.
bjoyce said
07:30 AM Nov 8, 2007
Cable internet and some DSL has the same problem as public Wi-fi, it is shared between your neighbors as a local network. You have to protect your own machine. Most firewalls are very paranoid even about what is on the local net, they still restrict what can be done. A key logger can come in off a usb thumb drive, from an email attachment from your best friend who didn't know it, from a grandkid downloading games, etc. It doesn't require a public network to get a key logger installed. There is risk everywhere. You have to protect yourself, but being alarmist is no help.
RVDude said
10:20 PM Nov 8, 2007
I should also add that I would never ever ever ever use a public PC (as in a library, internet cafe, or campground lobby) to do any banking or other critical business. You have no idea who has planted what on these public machines, what malicious software has been innocently and inadvertently downloaded, and no idea how well they are maintained from a firewall and security patch perspective. At least with your own laptop on a public network you know someone has to plant something on your machine over that network and also you have some confidence in what has been downloaded on it and your own maintenance levels.
Froggi said
07:46 AM Nov 9, 2007
Okay, maybe a dumb question but what the heck. <g>
I know not to do anything secure on the public WiFi systems but I'm wondering how secure my Verizon Aircard service is.....banking, etc.
RVDude said
12:31 PM Nov 9, 2007
The simple answer Froggi is that you are fine with the Aircard - keep a firewall and anti-virus current and active on your laptop. The Aircard does not enable a WiFi like public external connection back to your PC. Now, for the truly insane, dig into the details of any form of connection and you'll never ever take your laptop out of the box! But that is extreme obsessive compulsive paranoia.
Follow the same safe computing rules as always
1) never ever open (click on) unknown email attachments of any type as nasties can be encoded into in jpg, doc, xls, and most any format.
2) use a browser based email reader if at all possible (keep nasties off your PC)
3) never click on links in emails you do not thoroughly know and understand. Your bank/broker/store will NEVER ask you in an email to click on a link and provide personal info like account numbers, pins, change passwords, etc. If in doubt type in the businesses url (note I said type it don't click it) and check out validity that way. Send them an email request from the typed URL page for verification.
4) always review all links first. Mouse over any link and read it before clicking on it down in the lower left of your browser. You are particularly looking for junk after the real name for example, www.bankofamerica.notify.com is NOT a BofA domain, it is a sub-domain of some rogue domain called "notify" but at first glance it sure looks BofA official doesn't it? I'll also bet that the graphics will be identical too and you can bet they'll suggest verifying your PIN with them too. Don't even click on it.
5) if in doubt in any way, just don't click on it or download it. After all, better to miss out on the very latest cutie joke attachment than to have a nasty planted on your machine!
6) Don't randomly click on URLs. Yes, even opening a web page can be bad news. There are many BAD places to be on the internet not just because of the content but what those BAD web pages can download to your PC. Close rogue pop-up windows (you know the ones that say click here you won or click to check your PC, or click here a virus was detected) NOT by clicking on that official looking window but use the windows toolbar at the bottom of you screen and right click to close.
Get in the habit of these and you'll be fine.
-- Edited by RVDude at 12:37, 2007-11-09
Froggi said
05:26 PM Nov 9, 2007
Thanks, it was something I hadn't really seen discussed. I use NOD32 for anti-virus and run several spyware products as well as using MailWasher to pre-screen emails. Knock on wood, I've never gotten a virus but can't same the same for spyware....that's why I check it so often. <g>
mrsgeek said
04:27 PM Dec 26, 2007
The most important thing you can do to keep your computer safe is to keep it up to date. Do your Windows updates, keep your anti-virus and anti-spyware software up to date and make sure you have a firewall turned on. Updates are created to patch security holes and prevent new threats.
Updating is the most important task for keeping your computer safe regardless of the method used to connect - Wi-Fi, Satellite, Cellular, Cable, DSL or Dial Up.
The only additional issue with Wi-Fi is that you are on a network, and you don't want to share files with anyone else on the network. It's easy to turn off File sharing on your computer: Control Panel Network Connections Right-Click on the Wireless connection and choose Properties UNcheck the property for File and Printer Sharing OK
Those instructions are for XP - Vista handles this automatically when you specify that the WiFi connection is a Public hotspot.
IF you keep your computer Up To Date, then using WiFi (or any other method) to do your banking is not only OK - I think it is very important. Checking your bank balance regularly is the best way to be alerted if any fraud has taken place.
I know several people who have been the victims of identity theft fraud and none of it has happened because of their Internet use. A credit card gets stolen, personal info gets taken from the garbage, a phone conversation was overheard, credit card numbers were obtained from a retailer's computer etc. etc. All of them were reimbursed their stolen funds. Why? Because they knew about it in time to take action. They knew about it because they checked it online!
mikeway said
08:19 PM Dec 26, 2007
To follow on with Mz Geeks post, on a MAC sharing is turned off in the "preference" panels. Click on sharing and make sure nothing is enabled.
Mike
RVDude said
10:29 PM Dec 26, 2007
Let's not forget that one of the BEST security checks you can do is to get your credit report from one of the big three Equifax, Experian, or TransUnion. Each is required to provide one FREE report to you each year. Play all three of them and you can get a report every 4 months. But you have to go get it! Go to their sites and just apply, make sure to skip all the fee-based add ons and just get your basic report. That's all you need. What you are looking for is unusual credit requests which all show up on these reports. I get my credit check-up every 4 months, you should too! There are also numerous freebie "aggregator" sites that will manage your report requests to each of these providers.
bago40 said
09:53 AM Dec 27, 2007
Well, I have to thank you all very much for this info. It has cleared up some of my worries due to lack of knowledge. I work alot of hours and do not have time to do extensive research and I'm taking way too much time becoming fully literate with the computer. You're input is invaluable! I use the free wi-fi at the campground, so I'll just be very aware! By the way any recommendations / experience with anti-virus and firewall programs? I currenty use trend micro pccillin. It is time to update or get something else. Thanks, BAGO.
I just want to reiterate how important it is to check your banking account online frequently. I just had someone try to transfer money from my banking account to my paypal account. Because paypal sent me an email and because I check my banking account frequently and saw the transaction, I caught it and was able to put a stop payment on the transfer and paypal is investigating the incident.
Jan and GC said
02:09 PM Dec 27, 2007
Bill,
I am wondering why you recommend AVG anti virus but not AVG anti spyware?
Thanks,
Jan
RVDude said
05:10 PM Dec 27, 2007
EDITED answer- AVG anti-spyware and AVG Anti-virus are two separate AVG products and both can be downloaded and run for free.
ME BAD - Per Bill's post below, I realized I had looked only at the AVG Anti-Virus freebie page which indicated that it (the anti-virus) did not include the spyware - Bill correctly reports that both products from AVG are free and are two separate products. I've always run AVG Anti-virus and Ad-Aware anti-spy and never realized AVG also offered the freebie spyware products. Ad-Aware has worked so well for me I never thought to look for a replacement. Sorry folks...
The freebie Ad-Aware anti-spy is indeed a "passive" product, removing the "spy-droppings" after the fact when you run Ad-Aware. You can, and I never have, purchase Ad-Aware which enables it to be "active" and stop "spy-droppings" before they are written to your computer. This "active" configuration for the purchased Ad-Aware functions just like the freebie AVG Anti-spy. In this "active" mode both products will impact computer speed as there is a lot of processing and lookups as each item on each web page is reviewed.
-- Edited by RVDude at 18:32, 2007-12-27
Bill Adams said
06:06 PM Dec 27, 2007
RV Dude, Thanks for the answer but it not quite correct. Here is a link to the free AVG anti-spyware. http://free.grisoft.com/doc/20/us/frt/0 I gave it a try and had great expectations due to the terrific anti-virus that they produce. I found that since it remains active at all times that it slowed my computer down more than I found acceptable. It claims to block incoming spyware vs. Ad-Aware which allows it and then removes it when you run the program. I found that as long as I run Ad-Aware a couple times a week (once a day is better) there is very little to be removed. The first 30 days that you have the service the active feature is alive and then reverts to a non-automatic version which might do just as well. If you are a Kim Komando fan she lists Ad-Aware as one of her favorites as well.
-- Edited by Bill Adams at 18:07, 2007-12-27
-- Edited by Bill Adams at 18:11, 2007-12-27
-- Edited by Bill Adams at 18:48, 2007-12-27
Jan and GC said
10:29 AM Dec 28, 2007
Thanks guys,
I manually update my anti spyware and use it so I am not having the computer bog down issue while it runs in the background. I thought maybe I should change programs after reading your original posts but it looks like they both will do the job so I will continue with the AVG. :)
Thanks again,
Jan
nreiter said
10:33 AM Feb 23, 2008
One simple step that is rarely mentioned to secure your computer when using an internet connection that's not under your control is to go into the properties of your internet connection (for most that would be the WiFi connection in the system tray) and uncheck all the protocols except for TCP/IP. In particular, be sure to uncheck "Client for Microsoft Networks" and "File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks". These two protocols are not needed unless you're running your own LAN and sharing files between computers.
liketowin said
06:20 AM Feb 28, 2008
Hello eveyone, Just browsing through the security comments. I have a question. Hope someone can help. My daughter's boyfriend has taped into her computer. Apparently he can see her keystrokes etc.... I unplugged her connection in order to get another IP address-changed her password for facebook etc.... I'm also going to put a password in order for her to run her computer-I'm not that knowledgeable about computers-Would this solve her problem? What an invasion of privacy this is-he did this because he wanted to spy on her and be sure she wasn't talking to other guys on the net-of course some people from work etc.. have sent her messages-all innocent-he showed her who she had been communicating with etc..... I was livid- trying to fix the problem for her-cannot believe the lack of trust etc..... Needless to say she does not see him anymore (for now) ???? Any help would be appreciated.
jdensie said
06:53 AM Feb 28, 2008
liketowin wrote:
Hello eveyone, Just browsing through the security comments. I have a question. Hope someone can help. My daughter's boyfriend has taped into her computer. Apparently he can see her keystrokes etc.... I unplugged her connection in order to get another IP address-changed her password for facebook etc.... I'm also going to put a password in order for her to run her computer-I'm not that knowledgeable about computers-Would this solve her problem? What an invasion of privacy this is-he did this because he wanted to spy on her and be sure she wasn't talking to other guys on the net-of course some people from work etc.. have sent her messages-all innocent-he showed her who she had been communicating with etc..... I was livid- trying to fix the problem for her-cannot believe the lack of trust etc..... Needless to say she does not see him anymore (for now) ???? Any help would be appreciated.
Contact the police. This type of predator needs to be arrested. What will this lead to in his later life. Stop him now, we do not need this in socity.
When we log onto the campgrounds Free WiFi after entering the code they give you......
Are you secure to do your banking on line etc?
Or should we get the internet sat. dish (Datastorm) ?
We will be doing everything on line, and this has us concerned.
Before we begin Fulltiming in Spring of 2008.....we need to know about this, and any help and info will be appreciated.
Thanks.
Arlene
-- Edited by Travelin Duo at 15:31, 2007-10-20
This is a non problem and there is nothing special about using the internet from an RV instead of a house, business. or motel room. There is a problem with other computers on your local network being able to see your files, and the local network can include your campground or home neighbors depending on how the internet is supplied. That is why you use a firewall.
Sorry for not saying thanks to you sooner, but been under the weather and not on here for a bit.
As always we appreciate your information.
That cleared up our confusion.
Larry however does want the SAT
Enjoy the Keys.
We go every winter to Key Colony Beach in March.
It is off of rte 1 in Marathon, and we stay in a condo oceanfront.
Not anymore,,,now that we bought the MH
We love the Keys and cannot wait to ge there this year.
Have fun......and thanks again.
Arlene
Thank you also, and the same apology for not answering sooner due to sickness. However I am back and was happy to see both your answers.
Come Spring Larry will be in touch with you.
Thanks again.
Arlene
It is a little more complicated than just saying that httpS makes us "all secure" when on a public WiFi or any public network. While it is true that if there is an httpS in the URL the transmission BETWEEN your browser and the web site is encrypted. The problem with a public WiFi network is that your PC is NOT secure from others on that same network. Hence, it is very simple for anyone on a shared WiFi to simply access your computer via the shared network (no browser needed to do this) and plant a keystroke logging program, or a "rootkit" or other nasties without your knowledge on your computer. Then, when you log onto a bank site they can log your userid and password before the browser even encrypts it. A properly maintained and updated firewall can reduce this risk significantly but it is not enough. I certainly do not mean to be alarmist, but planting a keystroke logger program is basic hacking, many firewalls are poorly set up to protect from the local network and given the obviousness of us RVers sitting in a campground eventually doing banking it makes sense that this could make a pubic campground WiFi a veritable goldmine. Be very careful while on public WiFi or even in opening up your personal WiFi to the neighbors. Secure your personal WiFi using at bare minimum with WEP and non-displayed SSID. Go the extra step to add MAC filtering as WEP is actually somewhat vulnerable. We RVers are quite frankly sitting ducks. Anyone can figure out that we will eventually do our banking, all they have to do is plant a nastie and wait.
As the Sgt. in Hill Street Blues would say, "Let's be careful out there!"
I know not to do anything secure on the public WiFi systems but I'm wondering how secure my Verizon Aircard service is.....banking, etc.
Follow the same safe computing rules as always
1) never ever open (click on) unknown email attachments of any type as nasties can be encoded into in jpg, doc, xls, and most any format.
2) use a browser based email reader if at all possible (keep nasties off your PC)
3) never click on links in emails you do not thoroughly know and understand. Your bank/broker/store will NEVER ask you in an email to click on a link and provide personal info like account numbers, pins, change passwords, etc. If in doubt type in the businesses url (note I said type it don't click it) and check out validity that way. Send them an email request from the typed URL page for verification.
4) always review all links first. Mouse over any link and read it before clicking on it down in the lower left of your browser. You are particularly looking for junk after the real name for example, www.bankofamerica.notify.com is NOT a BofA domain, it is a sub-domain of some rogue domain called "notify" but at first glance it sure looks BofA official doesn't it? I'll also bet that the graphics will be identical too and you can bet they'll suggest verifying your PIN with them too. Don't even click on it.
5) if in doubt in any way, just don't click on it or download it. After all, better to miss out on the very latest cutie joke attachment than to have a nasty planted on your machine!
6) Don't randomly click on URLs. Yes, even opening a web page can be bad news. There are many BAD places to be on the internet not just because of the content but what those BAD web pages can download to your PC. Close rogue pop-up windows (you know the ones that say click here you won or click to check your PC, or click here a virus was detected) NOT by clicking on that official looking window but use the windows toolbar at the bottom of you screen and right click to close.
Get in the habit of these and you'll be fine.
-- Edited by RVDude at 12:37, 2007-11-09
Updating is the most important task for keeping your computer safe regardless of the method used to connect - Wi-Fi, Satellite, Cellular, Cable, DSL or Dial Up.
The only additional issue with Wi-Fi is that you are on a network, and you don't want to share files with anyone else on the network. It's easy to turn off File sharing on your computer:
Control Panel
Network Connections
Right-Click on the Wireless connection and choose Properties
UNcheck the property for File and Printer Sharing
OK
Those instructions are for XP - Vista handles this automatically when you specify that the WiFi connection is a Public hotspot.
IF you keep your computer Up To Date, then using WiFi (or any other method) to do your banking is not only OK - I think it is very important. Checking your bank balance regularly is the best way to be alerted if any fraud has taken place.
I know several people who have been the victims of identity theft fraud and none of it has happened because of their Internet use. A credit card gets stolen, personal info gets taken from the garbage, a phone conversation was overheard, credit card numbers were obtained from a retailer's computer etc. etc. All of them were reimbursed their stolen funds. Why? Because they knew about it in time to take action. They knew about it because they checked it online!
Mike
http://free.grisoft.com/freeweb.php/doc/2/ (AVG)
http://www.lavasoftusa.com/ (Ad-Aware)
-- Edited by Bill Adams at 10:08, 2007-12-27
-- Edited by RVDude at 11:44, 2007-12-27
AVG anti-spyware and AVG Anti-virus are two separate AVG products and both can be downloaded and run for free.
ME BAD - Per Bill's post below, I realized I had looked only at the AVG Anti-Virus freebie page which indicated that it (the anti-virus) did not include the spyware - Bill correctly reports that both products from AVG are free and are two separate products. I've always run AVG Anti-virus and Ad-Aware anti-spy and never realized AVG also offered the freebie spyware products. Ad-Aware has worked so well for me I never thought to look for a replacement.
Sorry folks...
The freebie Ad-Aware anti-spy is indeed a "passive" product, removing the "spy-droppings" after the fact when you run Ad-Aware. You can, and I never have, purchase Ad-Aware which enables it to be "active" and stop "spy-droppings" before they are written to your computer. This "active" configuration for the purchased Ad-Aware functions just like the freebie AVG Anti-spy. In this "active" mode both products will impact computer speed as there is a lot of processing and lookups as each item on each web page is reviewed.
-- Edited by RVDude at 18:32, 2007-12-27
Thanks for the answer but it not quite correct. Here is a link to the free AVG anti-spyware.
http://free.grisoft.com/doc/20/us/frt/0
I gave it a try and had great expectations due to the terrific anti-virus that they produce. I found that since it remains active at all times that it slowed my computer down more than I found acceptable. It claims to block incoming spyware vs. Ad-Aware which allows it and then removes it when you run the program. I found that as long as I run Ad-Aware a couple times a week (once a day is better) there is very little to be removed.
The first 30 days that you have the service the active feature is alive and then reverts to a non-automatic version which might do just as well.
If you are a Kim Komando fan she lists Ad-Aware as one of her favorites as well.
-- Edited by Bill Adams at 18:07, 2007-12-27
-- Edited by Bill Adams at 18:11, 2007-12-27
-- Edited by Bill Adams at 18:48, 2007-12-27
Just browsing through the security comments. I have a question. Hope someone can help. My daughter's boyfriend has taped into her computer. Apparently he can see her keystrokes etc.... I unplugged her connection in order to get another IP address-changed her password for facebook etc.... I'm also going to put a password in order for her to run her computer-I'm not that knowledgeable about computers-Would this solve her problem? What an invasion of privacy this is-he did this because he wanted to spy on her and be sure she wasn't talking to other guys on the net-of course some people from work etc.. have sent her messages-all innocent-he showed her who she had been communicating with etc..... I was livid- trying to fix the problem for her-cannot believe the lack of trust etc..... Needless to say she does not see him anymore (for now) ????
Any help would be appreciated.
Contact the police. This type of predator needs to be arrested. What will this lead to in his later life. Stop him now, we do not need this in socity.
. Update to the newest and run both. Reboot the computer and run them again to make sure you have gotten everything. Edit: Here is an article on a tool to really dig in where you need to work with people on internet forums to fix the problem - http://www.download.com/8301-2007_4-9857374-12.html .
-- Edited by bjoyce at 07:27, 2008-02-28