Unlimited Hot Water / Instant water heater install
tchil said
11:33 AM Sep 20, 2007
Ok I just thought I would post this topic to provide info to anyone interested about my addition of a propane fired instant water heater. I did a lot of research on here about the subject and only really found some cursory information on the topic. I pm'd Hit The Road Jack (rv.net) for some info and he was very helpful. So here is what I did. I purchased an Excel tankless instant water heater model number 10002P1 and paid $327 for it including shipping. It heats 1.6 GPM with a 45 degree rise in temp and is a ventless model that does not require a flue. It uses 2 D batteries for the spark ignition and only requires three connections water in, hot water out and propane in. I installed it in the basement of my Sierra Sport 38SP toy hauler. It requires a standard propane regulator (like the one already on your RV) that provides 11" WC and 1/2 PSI. It will heat 950 gallons of water on one bbq size propane tank. I will add some pics but have not had a chance to take some yet. I tapped into the cold water input line to my existing suburban 6 gal DSI water heater and then ran a PEX water line to the input of the new excel heater. I then ran another PEX line from the output of the excel unit to the input of the original water heater. I also installed a bypass valve at that end so I could bypass one or both of my water heaters in case there was a problem or for winterization. So in summary the water comes into the tankless water heater and is heated 45 degrees. It then flows to the regular 6 gal tanked water heater and then out to my hot water faucets. If my input water temp is above 60 degrees then the tank unit does not even fire up because the tankless is providing hot enough water. The tankless is rated to 9200 Ft elevation and I am currently using it at 8500 feet with no issues. My basement is a little small so I purchased a fridge fan kit and cut a hole in the side of my rig right above the basement door and added a dryer vent cover and the fan right behind it. This is the kit I bought Valtera Fidge Cool. It has two temp switches so I mounted the low temp one to the metal cover of the tankless unit and now anytime the tankless unit comes on within about 20 seconds the vent fan comes on and pushes open the louvers on the dryer vent. I drilled a 1.5 inch hole in the basement floor directly below the gas line connection for the instant water heater and ran a flexible gas line out the bottom to a separate bbq size tank and regulator. Later I am planning on making a quick connect to my existing propane line but so far I kind of like having the sep tank. As soon as you turn on the hot water the heater lights up and as soon as you turn off the hot water the unit shuts off. I am using an adjustable water pressure regulator and have it set at 60 PSI and have the standard shower head that came on my trailer it says it is 2.3 GPM flow. Sorry for making the post just a list of facts but I am trying to make it so that anyone that is interested will have all the info they need. I could not find all of the info I needed so I took a bit of a leap of faith in purchasing and installing this thing. The final result is that I now take a shower for as long as I want. For testing purposes I decided to take a 10 min shower and at the end of that I still had water just as hot as when I got in. The water is hot enough I have to mix cold in to keep from burning me. The next shower I took I checked the temp of the hot water when I was done with my shower (about 5 min) and with no cold water it was 113 degrees on my infra red temp gun. I am extremely happy with this upgrade. I am currently living in my RV full time and have full hookups so grey water storage is a non issue, but even without full hookups it is really nice for me and my wife and two kids to take back to back showers without any waiting in between. I will try and get some pics up soon and by the way the excel unit shipped at 14 lbs so out of the box it probably weighs about 12 lbs. I also checked the temp of the fumes that come out the top of the unit when it is running and they are about 230 degrees as it comes out. To light tissue paper you need more than 400 degrees so I feel very safe with it installed.
Some of the other posts I read on the topic were full of people who did not want to take a longer shower or claimed they could take as long a shower as they wanted without running out of hot water. That may be true in some instances, like in Arizona in the summer but as most of you know as you increase your altitude or as the input water temp decreases your shower gets shorter and shorter. For me when it is 6 AM and 40 degrees outside is just about the time I want a little longer hotter shower. When it is 95 degrees I don't mind a short cold shower, just my 2 cents. I am happy to answer any questions anyone has on my install if you are interested.
Happy RVing, Ty
Here are a couple pics of the install.
ken and cindy said
01:47 PM Sep 20, 2007
Great post !
We have not experienced the short showers yet, living at sealevel with 90 degree days and 70 degree nights, but knowing that for less than $400 bucks we can have an endless (as long as propane holds out)supply of hot water, without adding too much weight is very comforting.
Thanks,
Ken
RickV1955 said
03:44 PM Sep 20, 2007
This is really interesting.
We are not full timing yet, but will be in about two and half years when we retire.
This is one of the questions we asked quite a while back (as we do like to take reasonably long, and hot showerers).
We were told by most of the full time RVers that they could take normal lenth showers with plenty of hot water in most fifth wheels...is this true with most of the RVers here?
Also, is this something that can be added as an "option" when buying a new fifth wheel?
When we do full time, we do not plan to be anywhere near cold weather or snow in the winter...so that would most likely take care of the higher elevations in the colder months too.
Thanks for a really informative post.
Rick & Debi
Future full timers
Luvglass said
06:06 PM Sep 20, 2007
We have a standard 10 gallon hot water heater and after a year and a half of full timing have to say it's not an issue for us. We often times take showers back to back and have never run out of hot water. But, what's a long shower? Everyone wants something different. Never really timed it, but I would guess that we're out of there within 3-5 minutes.
Fred
nessa54 said
08:32 PM Sep 20, 2007
This is great. We will be fultiming in 5yrs and I have studied these at length for home or RV. This is what I want to do also. Makes perfect sense energy wise. Now, if you have the tankless you really don't need ho****er tank anymore..correct? So isn't it actually lighter then a full 12gallon tank? I think we are thinking electric because we hope to use solar and wind power:)
nessa54 said
08:38 PM Sep 20, 2007
Also doesnt hot water tank stay on all the time to keep water hot and tankless does not?
jdensie said
06:04 AM Sep 21, 2007
For our own reasons we bought a MH and it has the Hydro-hot system made by Aqua-hot. We can take 10-15 min back-to-back showers each and never run out of hot water.The same system heats our MH that can best be described as baseboard heat.We would hate to go back to the propane type heaters.If you are looking to buy, look at all of the options.
tchil said
08:09 AM Sep 21, 2007
The Hydro Hot mentioned above is a great system but is probably much more than $377. It also requires a diesel fuel source which I don't have on my 5th wheel. Another option is the RV 500 system but they are around $1000 and replace your existing water heater. I have heard people are very happy with them but just did not want to spend the cash. I agree that in many cases the standard water heater is just fine. I stayed in my trailer in Arizona with hookups a couple of times and had lots of hot water. But at 8500 feet with 40-50 degree input water that situation changed drastically. I was getting about 2 min worth of hot water which was just barely enough to take a very quick shower and then needed to wait about 20 min for the wife to be able to get a hot shower, then the kids. I am extremely happy with this setup because I now have the choice to use one or both heaters. I think if I was in a warmer climate I would just use the instant unit and save the propane, but it is nice to have the option for both. I also looked at the electric units but to get enough rise in temp you need a 50 amp 220 unit which is not practical.
-- Edited by tchil at 09:43, 2007-09-21
Judy said
08:17 AM Sep 21, 2007
We have a 12 gallon hot water and never run out of it being hot with just the 2 of us, I DO like long showers and was a bathtub person.....There is just the 2 of us the 2blackdogs do not take showers but they do use outside showers....we have an Elite Suites 36 TK3.
RVDude said
08:42 AM Sep 21, 2007
HydroHot/AquHot and another brand called Oasis are all "hydronic" systems - they are hot water type systems. These are very expensive diesel fired systems found only on higher-end rigs and when available as an option typically are priced in the $10,000 range. They are extremely efficient and very high capacity. Oasis originated out of the marine industry and many folks tend to feel it is better than HydroHot.
Precision Temp is a propane fired tankless option and far less expensive which replaces a standard water heater that apparently gets great reviews. Precision Temp also has marine roots. Adding heat registers to this unit would be a snap.
Wow 10 grand, I like my hot shower but not that much. The precision temp - RV 500 is a great unit and has a temp rise of 85 degrees they also use an adjustable gas valve that reacts to incoming water temp and flow to keep output water temp consistant. My unit does not. That is another reason that putting it in front of the existing water heater worked great because it gets diluted with the hot water already in the 6 gal unit.
RVDude said
10:19 PM Sep 23, 2007
BTW, tchil, superb job on this install. A very cost effective and (for us engine-nerds) an elegantly simply solution...
jdensie said
04:50 AM Sep 24, 2007
Just want to set the record straight, We bought a used 2001 MH in 2007 and it had the Hydro-hot unit in it. We did not order such a unit. When we bought the MH and were told about the hrdro-hot and we had no idea of what it was or how it worked. Since than we had it we found out it is a very good system and really love it.
tchil said
07:25 AM Sep 24, 2007
Sounds like a great system, I have heard people talking about them before. For my purpose I would have had to install the system and an extra fuel tank for diesel, so I did not really consider it. I think if I was going to purchase a DP I would def try and find one with one of those installed.
Ok I just thought I would post this topic to provide info to anyone interested about my addition of a propane fired instant water heater. I did a lot of research on here about the subject and only really found some cursory information on the topic. I pm'd Hit The Road Jack (rv.net) for some info and he was very helpful. So here is what I did. I purchased an Excel tankless instant water heater model number 10002P1 and paid $327 for it including shipping. It heats 1.6 GPM with a 45 degree rise in temp and is a ventless model that does not require a flue. It uses 2 D batteries for the spark ignition and only requires three connections water in, hot water out and propane in. I installed it in the basement of my Sierra Sport 38SP toy hauler. It requires a standard propane regulator (like the one already on your RV) that provides 11" WC and 1/2 PSI. It will heat 950 gallons of water on one bbq size propane tank. I will add some pics but have not had a chance to take some yet. I tapped into the cold water input line to my existing suburban 6 gal DSI water heater and then ran a PEX water line to the input of the new excel heater. I then ran another PEX line from the output of the excel unit to the input of the original water heater. I also installed a bypass valve at that end so I could bypass one or both of my water heaters in case there was a problem or for winterization. So in summary the water comes into the tankless water heater and is heated 45 degrees. It then flows to the regular 6 gal tanked water heater and then out to my hot water faucets. If my input water temp is above 60 degrees then the tank unit does not even fire up because the tankless is providing hot enough water. The tankless is rated to 9200 Ft elevation and I am currently using it at 8500 feet with no issues. My basement is a little small so I purchased a fridge fan kit and cut a hole in the side of my rig right above the basement door and added a dryer vent cover and the fan right behind it. This is the kit I bought Valtera Fidge Cool. It has two temp switches so I mounted the low temp one to the metal cover of the tankless unit and now anytime the tankless unit comes on within about 20 seconds the vent fan comes on and pushes open the louvers on the dryer vent. I drilled a 1.5 inch hole in the basement floor directly below the gas line connection for the instant water heater and ran a flexible gas line out the bottom to a separate bbq size tank and regulator. Later I am planning on making a quick connect to my existing propane line but so far I kind of like having the sep tank. As soon as you turn on the hot water the heater lights up and as soon as you turn off the hot water the unit shuts off. I am using an adjustable water pressure regulator and have it set at 60 PSI and have the standard shower head that came on my trailer it says it is 2.3 GPM flow. Sorry for making the post just a list of facts but I am trying to make it so that anyone that is interested will have all the info they need. I could not find all of the info I needed so I took a bit of a leap of faith in purchasing and installing this thing. The final result is that I now take a shower for as long as I want. For testing purposes I decided to take a 10 min shower and at the end of that I still had water just as hot as when I got in. The water is hot enough I have to mix cold in to keep from burning me. The next shower I took I checked the temp of the hot water when I was done with my shower (about 5 min) and with no cold water it was 113 degrees on my infra red temp gun. I am extremely happy with this upgrade. I am currently living in my RV full time and have full hookups so grey water storage is a non issue, but even without full hookups it is really nice for me and my wife and two kids to take back to back showers without any waiting in between. I will try and get some pics up soon and by the way the excel unit shipped at 14 lbs so out of the box it probably weighs about 12 lbs. I also checked the temp of the fumes that come out the top of the unit when it is running and they are about 230 degrees as it comes out. To light tissue paper you need more than 400 degrees so I feel very safe with it installed.
Some of the other posts I read on the topic were full of people who did not want to take a longer shower or claimed they could take as long a shower as they wanted without running out of hot water. That may be true in some instances, like in Arizona in the summer but as most of you know as you increase your altitude or as the input water temp decreases your shower gets shorter and shorter. For me when it is 6 AM and 40 degrees outside is just about the time I want a little longer hotter shower. When it is 95 degrees I don't mind a short cold shower, just my 2 cents. I am happy to answer any questions anyone has on my install if you are interested.
Happy RVing, Ty
Here are a couple pics of the install.
Great post !
We have not experienced the short showers yet, living at sealevel with 90 degree days and 70 degree nights, but knowing that for less than $400 bucks we can have an endless (as long as propane holds out)supply of hot water, without adding too much weight is very comforting.
Thanks,
Ken
-- Edited by tchil at 09:43, 2007-09-21
Precision Temp is a propane fired tankless option and far less expensive which replaces a standard water heater that apparently gets great reviews. Precision Temp also has marine roots. Adding heat registers to this unit would be a snap.
Also, here's a discussion of making your own hydronic system.
-- Edited by RVDude at 11:29, 2007-09-21