I know this subject has been discussed but I am curious. We are going to be going full time very soon and a decision has to be made soon. I would like to know how many of you folks that have the Datastorm rooftop system feel that the large $$ investment was worth it or of you had it to do over again would you opt for a more economical system. We are casual daily internet surfers and don't anticipate a blog or website yet. With this in mind, those of you that fall into this catagory, what are you using. I really don't want to go cell phone based system so please don't include feedback on that type. I am really just trying to decide if we should go rooftop, tripod, or just rely on wifi. Thanks for your feedback on this. It really is a big decision.
Ray
Sandra said
01:43 PM Sep 12, 2007
We started out relying on wifi, then decided that we were using lots of fuel looking for wifi hotspots (there weren't a lot of campgrounds with wifi in 2004) so in the early summer of 2005 we found someone who knew about mobile internet satellite here in Ontario. We decided to go with the tripod system for two reasons, the first being the cost, the second because you could move it around if you were parked in a treed area. We love our internet satellite and wouldn't /couldn't be without it. My husband is a photographer and spends the greater part of his days when we are stationary working with his photos and uploading them and we both have blogs, mine I do daily and his web page, whenever he feels like it.
Hope this helps.
RVDude said
03:23 PM Sep 12, 2007
The sat decision is just like every other decision when looking at YOUR lifestyle and changing it. It is a biggie with potentially perceived small return.
Always remember, it can just as easily be added later. So... Figure out how important an internet connection is and couple that with where your travels take you.
First, I might suggest start trying an alternative approach, cell systems like EVDO or air cards and the like, or go low budget and just try using freebie WiFi in hotel parking lots and campgrounds. Do these to SEE if these lower cost solutions will work for you. (Make note that theft of WiFi - as in cruising down neighborhoods and randomly connecting is technically a federal offense). There are security issues in using random/freebie WiFi, you are on a public network and are vulnerable to the unscrupulous. Keep your firewall/virus UP TO DATE (do this always all the time) but you are still not totally secure on these systems. The air cards are secure. Sat is secure-if set up properly.
If the hassles of finding a freebie WiFi bother you or you find yourself often off-the-beaten-path where cell is weak/unavailable you will have to move to sat.
For me the decision went as follows: I found I am away from cell coverage much of the time so a card would never work. I tried hunting for freebie WiFi and found it aggravating (note that hunting for freebies mean you are probably in a town with cell coverage anyway), and security is always a major concern for me since I still manage all my investments regularly online. I opted for the automatic roof mount. I traded the hassle for making storage for a tripod system, the potential for a tree interference (which can be mitigated by a tripod mount) for the convienance of auto sat find-just push a button, remote deploying in the rain-again just push a button, and the unobtrusivness of a rooftop mount while parking in a WalMart type setting.
Hence, for the convenience of always having a secure connection anywhere sat just had to be done. For MY lifestyle, I would never turn back.
-- Edited by RVDude at 16:33, 2007-09-12
bjoyce said
05:39 PM Sep 12, 2007
I have had satellite internet since June 2003 which was before you found much wi-fi. I use a tripod because a couple campgrounds we frequent are fairly hostile to automatic roof mounts. But if I were starting over I might have gone with an automatic roof mount and we would have found a way to make it work. My wife and I came out of the computer world and we live on the internet, so we are power users. We have a website, we maintain our financial information through the internet, and we both email every day. I also spend time on forums. Both of us feel our lifestyle is cramped when we can't be on the internet from our RV.
I set up most every time we camp. It takes 15 to 45 minutes depending on how well things go. Today was a great day.
What I tell people mostly is to try the wi-fi route first. It is cheap since most wi-fi's are free and a USB wi-fi adapter is $50 if you don't have one built-in to your computer. You will know if you are ready for satellite internet after a while. Paying for daily or weekly access at campgrounds won't add up to the monthly cost of a tripod system or cellular system which is about $60. If you don't go to campgrounds or the ones you go to do not have wi-fi, or the wi-fi is inadequate (very common) then you can start deciding now between automatic and tripod.
The choices are improving as time goes on for alternatives to wi-fi, but neither satellite internet or cellular internet are coming down in price and don't expect them to. Datastorms are the cheapest automatic roof mounts available, they don't have to get cheaper than the approximately $5000 installed price.
SoCalToolGuy said
07:37 PM Sep 12, 2007
This is exactly the type of feedback that I had hoped for. Bjoice, it sounds like you are the same type of users we are. We can't stand to be away from the internet for even a day. My wife is on all the time over at RV.net. She has made a lot of friends there. The main reason I asked this question is that I usually end up spending more money than I had to because I just about always make a mistake and buy the wrong thing. I really like the auto unit for it's simplicity of operation, but if we could get along with the tripod I could save a bunch. I just don't know about the storage and setup that goes along with it. I get the feeling that those of you that plunked down the cash and got the Motosat are happy that you did. i will just sit back and read the posts as they come. Keep'em coming. Thanks everybody.
Ray
-- Edited by SoCalToolGuy at 20:39, 2007-09-12
DLSeeAmerica said
10:03 PM Sep 12, 2007
The DataStorm was our one big splurge, and although the initial cost was high, the monthly fee is not out of line with the service quality compared to other options.
If you use the Internet to make wise decisions, you may even be able to justify it over time through savings. Although we didn't have the DataStorm when we started planning our full-timing retirement, I'm sure we saved enough in wise decision-making and good shopping based on what we learned on the Internet that we could almost say the DataStorm was free.
Luvglass said
10:34 PM Sep 12, 2007
We have the automatic roof top system, and if we had it to do over again, we would get the portable system.
With the roof system the trailer has to be positioned so the the front has a clear shot at the southeastern sky. The net resut is that most often you are placed in the middle of fields in commercial campgrounds and very rarely can get a signal in state and federal parks. With the tether system you can oftentimes place the trailer in the woods and still be able to deploy the dish.
Probably better than $3000 savings over the auto system doesn't hurt either.
I consider the auto system to be one of my major errors, only surpassed by the boat anchor generator that we never use.
Fred
bjoyce said
07:44 AM Sep 13, 2007
Storage, ease of use, and relatively ease of changing satellites are the big advantages to having a Datastorm.
Storage: Some friends started with a tripod and had no trouble setting it up. They did get into fights over the space it took in their bays. They got a trade-in and have a Datastorm since the $3500 difference was easier on their marriage and much cheaper than buying a new RV with more storage. We store our tripod setup in the back seat our tow car while travelling. I do keep enough space in our bays to jam the setup in when we have our motorhome in for service since we need the back seat of the car then. Some people put a storage pod on their RV roof to store the dish. Some people hang the dish on their ladder with some kind of secure mount, which is the hardest piece to find a place to store. The modem and optional wireless router need an inside place with either the Datastorm or tripod.
Ease of use: Push a button on the Datastorm and most of the time you are online in a few minutes. Can be done at lunch. No comparison to a tripod, which takes a minimum of 15 minutes and normally about 30 minutes of dedicated time to setup
Changing satellites: Hughes.net makes it hard. With some of the VARs that support Datastorms it is still hard. With Motosat itself they have enough slots on different satellites that it is normally easy. Why change satellites? Hughes.net has about 10 satellites they are providing service on and they eash have their own good areas and bad areas. Most cover the lower 48 well, some have trouble in New England, some have trouble in the Pacific Northwest, and a couple have trouble in Texas. You want to go to Alaska, only two satellites work. You want to go into Mexico, only two work deep down and a couple others work to about Mexico City. The Maritimes have a similar story. The satellites are on the equator but range from 83 degrees west to 127 degrees west. On the east coast someone on 127 will be pointing more horizontally and trees and buildings can get in the way. The same for someone on 83 on the west coast. If you travel far and wide you might want to be able to change satellites. (We are on 127 and it is working great here in the panhandle of Maryland.)
Advantages of tripods are access to the $60/month plan, cheaper costs, and the ability to put the tripod up to 500 feet away from the RV.
$60/month plan (Home) works well for most, the Datastorms use the higher $70/month plan (Pro) which can be faster, has higher daily limits and most VARs charge $80/month for this plan. We are on the Pro plan since the uploads are faster and we have come close to hitting the Home plan daily limits.
Cheaper costs: Roll your own is about $500 and with a dealer the costs are about $1500-1800 from a good dealer. Not good dealers don't provide good support. Roll your own can be very hard.
500 feet from RV is about what you can do with high quality cable. Don't buy cheap cable or connectors, they are about the number one problem tripod users have. We carry about 200 feet of cable as (3) sets of 50 feet and (2) sets of 25 feet. 99% of the time we use either one 25' or one 50' and have only gone over 50' a couple times in four years. But that 50' can put the tripod where it works and the RV can be in the trees. A good friend spent two months with his tripod 200 feet from his fifth wheel. We have encoutered a cable problem and the other sets are spares.
That enough info?
Howard said
10:56 AM Sep 13, 2007
Well, I had to get in on this one.
Of course, we have the rooftop automatic satellite dish - the Datastorm made by Motosat.
It is probably the BEST decision we have made. Yes, we have to watch where we park, but everyone has seen the places we have parked and they ain't too shabby. In 79 stops over two years, we have been in two campgrounds where we couldn't get a signal.
In one, we were only there for one night and didn't even try a different site. In the other, we tried multiple sites and just couldn't get through the trees. We drove 8 miles into town and used WiFi for those few days.
So in almost two and half years since we had the Datastorm installed, we have been without satellite internet in the rig for a total of about seven full days. Some of that time was due to equipment issues on our end that were fixed rather quickly.
As bjoyce said, it's very important to have a "good dealer" that provides good support.
Fred, I'm not sure what the problem is, but you should NEVER have to position the trailer in one direction for the Datastorm to work. It rotates 360 degrees and you should be able to park in any direction you want as long as there is a window to the southern sky. The dish should find the satellite through that window no matter where the front of the rig is. It would certainly be a pain if you always had to park the rig with the front facing in one direction, but that should not be the case at all. I don't know if I can help you on that, but I'm sure willing to give it a shot.
Usually, with our little compass we can find an acceptable window. When there are no obstructions, we are locked on in about three minutes. If there are potential obstructions, then "yes" we have spent an hour or two at some campgrounds getting positioned just right to get our signal. But we've got time, so those little hassles every once in awhile still don't make me wish we had a tripod set-up.
There are definitely pros and cons. And they have been laid out well here. For us, the scale always tips in favor of the automatic dish.
SoCalToolGuy said
06:51 PM Sep 13, 2007
Ok, so I decide to go with the Datastorm up on the roof of our 5er. Now how do I find that good installer that everybody says is so important. Whenyou don't know who is good and who isn't how do you find the guy that will do a clean install and be there for you when you need him. How did all of you get your trusted installer/dealer?
Ray
Luvglass said
08:02 PM Sep 13, 2007
Howard, I mis spoke, I meant the satellite dish has to see the southern sky. Of course the trailer can the oriented in any direction. I'd love to try that 500' cable in the woods. Fred
Howard wrote: Fred, I'm not sure what the problem is, but you should NEVER have to position the trailer in one direction for the Datastorm to work. It rotates 360 degrees and you should be able to park in any direction you want as long as there is a window to the southern sky. The dish should find the satellite through that window no matter where the front of the rig is. It would certainly be a pain if you always had to park the rig with the front facing in one direction, but that should not be the case at all. I don't know if I can help you on that, but I'm sure willing to give it a shot.
DLSeeAmerica said
08:43 PM Sep 13, 2007
SoCalToolGuy wrote:
Ok, so I decide to go with the Datastorm up on the roof of our 5er. Now how do I find that good installer that everybody says is so important. Whenyou don't know who is good and who isn't how do you find the guy that will do a clean install and be there for you when you need him. How did all of you get your trusted installer/dealer?
Ray
I spend quite a bit of time reviewing the forum at www.datastormusers.com, and one name kept surfacing, Bill Adams of Internet Anywhere. We were lucky enough to be 60 miles from him shortly after we picked up our 5er, so it was an easy decision for us.
I've only needed support once, but I had an email back within moments of sending one describing my problem, and we solved the problem completely over email in a short amount of time, although he was available by phone if I wanted. I preferred the email, so I could save them in case of future problems.
Ask around, and find someone you're sure will give you good support. I think that's the critical issue. I can recommend Bill with no reservations.
are the two most prominent. Bill through his activism in support of sat technologies and Bud through the magnitude of his enterprise. Bud personally installed my dish. Both have superb tech support capabilities.
Mobilsat is an ISP as well and that will prove to be very important in your long term happiness and flexibility (esp. bird swapping). I don't know if Bill is an ISP but, you won't go wrong with either!!
-- Edited by RVDude at 01:01, 2007-09-14
bjoyce said
08:13 AM Sep 14, 2007
One easy way to find a Datastorm installer is to go to DatastormUsers Map and look for the green installer icons with an automatic dish look in your area. The tripod installers are also green but look like a tripod. Then you can ask if we like the installers close by before you contact them. Bill Adams is User 24 and provides great support and uses Motosat as the ISP, which is the largest one. Steve O'Bosky is User 50 and is a great guy. Jim and Chris Guld, who post here sometimes, are User 787 and I trust they will do a good job.
I am a little bothered recommending Mobilsat because some friends went to Alaska in 2006 and Mobilsat was unable to change them to satellite 127 while the Datastorm users with Motosat as their ISP/VAR were able to change. Maybe they say they can change satellites, but they let my friends down. Otherwise my friends are happy with Mobilsat and they were glad to save the $10/month.
Luvglass said
11:36 AM Sep 14, 2007
We bought our system from Bud at the Daytona rally last spring and although the install was fine, we've had sporatic problems with their technical service. They are often very slow in getting back to us when we call for help and sometimes take a long time to come up with a diagnosis.
We're up in Coeur D'Alene Idaho right now and can't seem to get service in an open field. We called them 2 hours ago and are still waiting for a call back. I don't think they have enough staff in Technical Service. We complained once last year to Bud and actually got a call from a tech giving us what for, for complaining.
Fred
Luvglass said
12:35 PM Sep 15, 2007
We finally got a call back after 4 hours and it took the tech about 40 minutes to diagnose the problem and make the neccessary adjustments.
In the meantime Jo had called Bud and left a message. He called her back and apologized, but said they still have the best service of any of the resellers, the others are actually worse. Claims the problem is being unable to hire people because the unemployment rate is so low.
I suspect offering higher wages might offset that to some degree.
How about hearing from some members that have other providers, does it take you hours to get a call back from technical services??
We're thinking of changing providers once our contract is up.
Fred
mikeway said
10:05 AM Sep 16, 2007
I saw and spoke with Bill Adams and his wife yesterday. He was making a support "house call". He did our original install and has always been most helpful. He is vending at the Monaco rally in Salem this week and then heads toward Tucson for the Datastorm rally. Bill is one of those guys that wears an cell phone earpiece and answers almost immediately.
He uses Motosat/Datastorm as an ISP. Motosat provides at the "pro" level. We have been very pleased with their support. I met Royal Lamb and several of the Motosat support team at the the FMCA in Redmond last month. Very nice, knowledgeable people.
Mike
PS, there is a new hiDef dish coming out but it will be larger with 5 lnb's.
SoCalToolGuy said
01:52 PM Sep 16, 2007
Thanks for all the info folks. You are a world of help. We will try to hook up with Bill Adams in the future. Maybe we'll get lucky and see him at a rally somewhere. Thanks again.
Ray
Bill Adams said
05:48 PM Sep 16, 2007
I got a note from someone who frequents this forum that my name was being bandied about. I was not aware of this fourm but will now try to keep an eye on this technology section. If I can offer any advice I will jump in. As was mentioned earlier, www.datastormusers.com is an excellent site for information related to ALL things satellite internet. It is primarily focused on the automatic internet antennas and the Datastorm specifically, but there is a tripod section as well. Since all of us are Hughes users the topics related to the Hughes internet service applies to us all no matter how you point your antenna. There are approximately the same number of automatic and manual dish users out there so you are going to get (strong) opinions on both sides. There certainly are advantages to both systems. The automatic antennas are designed for folks who NEED (you don't have to have a business to need a connection) to connect to the internet when the want to and not when they can. The Datastorm can be setup when it's rainy, hot, cold, snowing, whatever. You can be up and on-line in about 10-15 minutes at a rest stop if you like. All the hardware stows out of the way on the roof and the only thing you need to know is where is the Southern sky. Yes, this does take some camping options out of the loop but I don't like being buried in the trees anyway so this works just fine for me. Just about any other option is going to be cheaper, but no other option will be as dependable or available. The service will also work in Canada and Mexico should your travels take you there. Hello to all and I will be watching you!
-- Edited by Bill Adams at 23:23, 2007-09-16
Froggi said
09:21 PM Sep 16, 2007
I had thought to do the portable set-up until I saw the size of it at the Escapade. I just don't have room for it. That brings me back to the auto-sat solution and a question. If I were to change rigs, can it be removed and put on the new rig without a lot of hassle (or leaving a mess on the old unit)?
Bill Adams said
09:38 PM Sep 16, 2007
Donna,
Yes, the Datastorm can easily be moved to a new coach. You have 2 choices for this move. The 1st is to remove the entire thing and place it on the new coach. This decision needs to be based on the roof type of the old coach. If you have a rubber roof then I would not use this option. Removing the entire base will likely damage the rubber roof. If a dealer is doing this for you when you trade then let them do as they please.
If you have a fiberglass or metal roof then removing the entire unit is just fine. You will still need to properly seal up all the screw holes with the proper caulk but otherwise it's pretty easy.
The other option is to leave the entire base plate in place. There are only 4 screws that hold the antenna to the mounting plate. If you disconnect the cables and these screws the entire antenna can be removed in just a few minutes and there will be no leaks or other problems. A new mounting plate is about $150 and with a new set of cables you are ready to go with your new installation.
Froggi said
10:15 PM Sep 16, 2007
Thanks so much...I do have a rubber roof so the new base plate would make the most sense. I see your phone number is in FL....is that the only place you do installations?
Bill Adams said
10:20 PM Sep 16, 2007
It's a FL phone number be we travel full time. The last few years have mostly been on the West Coast but we do have a small network of highly qualified installers that we work with. If we can't help we can point you to someone who can. You can always find me and where my future travels will take us at: http://map.datastormusers.com/user3.cfm?user=24
-- Edited by Bill Adams at 23:21, 2007-09-16
Howard said
08:56 AM Sep 17, 2007
Welcome Bill!
Glad to have you and thanks so much for your assistance to our Community.
Now we have knowledge from the best in the business on this subject.
RickV1955 said
09:17 AM Sep 17, 2007
I hope It's ok to jump in here and ask a follow-up (related) question, instead of starting a whole new thread on the same subject...
I'm not very "technically inclined" (an under statement, my wife would say...lol), but if I were to opt for the "Datastorm" (or similar models) for the ease of use, could I also carry a tri-pod setup as well for those occasions when the automatic roof-mount couldn't get a signal?
As I said, I really don't know a thing about the technology....it would seem that it may be fairly cheap to also carry the "portable" tri-pod set up if the major money was already spent for the more expensive rooftop....but then again, maybe I'm wrong and it is a totally different setup. I guess what I'm asking is, once a rooftop is installed, would it be that much more to have it set up for a "dual" system so we could use either system depending on the conditions?
Thanks.....
Rick
Rick and Debi
Future Full Timers...
Bill Adams said
11:16 AM Sep 17, 2007
Rick,
Yes, it is quite easy to change between a Datastorm and a tripod. We have upgraded many tripod users to an automatic system and a few have keep their dishes to use just as you have described. Most finally got rid of the tripod as it took up a lot of space and they found that they rarely had use for it. The type of camping you enjoy really determines if the tripod is still necessary. If you got storage to spare and a place for the tripod setup then it's a simple matter to change between the 2.
SoCalToolGuy said
11:24 AM Sep 17, 2007
Thanks Bill for replying in this forum. We will be getting in touch with you in the near future. Are you by any chance going to be at the Gypsy Journal rally in Casa Grande Arizona in February? We are signed up for that rally and it would be a great time to get our system installed. Talk to you by phone soon.
Ray Scrafield
Bill Adams said
11:29 AM Sep 17, 2007
Ray,
We know that we will be in the area but we have not firmed up our plans out that far yet. Even if we are not there I am sure we can meet up somewhere if you need anything.
Stay in touch!
Froggi said
06:33 PM Sep 17, 2007
Bill, one more question. Can the datastorm unit be set up for both tv & internet or should I just get the DirecTV done now (separately)?
Bill Adams said
06:44 PM Sep 17, 2007
Donna,
This depends upon your needs. The Datastorm can be setup to pick up one TV satellite from either DirecTV or Dish Network. This covers "most" subscribers programming. If you are a big HD TV fan then you need to be able to "see" 3 different satellites and in this case a separate TV antenna is a better choice. Personally, I don't get the HD hoopla. Most new coaches come with HD ready hardware and I guess it makes sense to utilize this hardware but as it stands today the best and most HD programming is available by using your local roof top antenna. Of course you have to be staying somewhere where over-the-air is available but from my point of view, if it is not, who cares! Sorry, color me "yawn" when it comes to HD.
We get our DTV programming from the Datastorm. This includes the E/W Distant Networks as well as nearly all of the DTV programming available in their Total Choice package. We can also receive all the pay-per-view programming and we use our internet connection to get this programming at will.
Froggi said
07:31 PM Sep 17, 2007
Thanks, Bill. I only need basic D-TV and my TiVo....<g>. HD to me means Harley-Davidson (and hundred dollars). I've never even used the pay-per-view.
Guess I need to get my house closing done and then see where I end up for a bit so I can get this set up. Guess antenna TV will have to do for a while. LOL!
Bill Adams said
07:50 PM Sep 17, 2007
Donna,
For you the BOW (bird on a wire) add-on to the Datastorm (or a tripod) would work just fine. It is a dual output LNB so your DTV DVR (not a stand-alone Tivo box) will work just fine in an RV hooked up to the Datastorm.
In case you are not aware, a stand-alone Tivo box will not work in your RV as it requires that it get its programming information from a phone line connection. The DTV DVR (model R-10 or R-15) gets its programming information via satellite and works quite well in an RV.
Froggi said
08:02 PM Sep 17, 2007
Well, I suspect my TiVo box probably won't work. It's now three years old...do you know how long I have to not be a DirecTV subscriber to qualify for equipment discounts (or doesn't that matter with this type setup)?
SoCalToolGuy said
09:05 PM Sep 17, 2007
Froggi, don't dump your Tivo. We have two of them and they are good for on-the-fly recording. You can see what's on by checking the TV guide channel.
Ray
Bill Adams said
09:12 PM Sep 17, 2007
Donna,
I am guessing you aren't going to get any deals (I bought my DVR at Best Buy and I am (was) a DTV dealer! The DTV DVR is $99 or less (free if you watch for specials) and well worth it. Throw the Tivo out and buy a DVR. You will be glad that you did!
Froggi said
09:50 PM Sep 17, 2007
Well, for what it's worth, I just crawled around on the floor to see what I actually have. It's a Hughes sd-dvr 40 (with TiVo). It is my D-tv receiver as well as my TiVo VCR. All I know is that I don't want to lose my season pass capabilities...<g>.
If I buy a DVR at Best Buy (or where ever), how does that become my D-TV receiver? (Yes, dummie here.....lol!)
Bill Adams said
09:55 PM Sep 17, 2007
It is my understanding that this unit still will not work properly without a phone line. If you replace your current setup with a DTV R-15 DVR, this is a receiver and DVR (Tivo without the Tivo brand name) built into one unit.
SoCalToolGuy said
09:58 PM Sep 17, 2007
Bill, Tivo will work without a phone line. It just won't get the programming info. You have to tell it time and channel. As long as you have access to a program guide you can still pre-program it.
Ray
Bill Adams said
10:09 PM Sep 17, 2007
Work and "work" are 2 different things. For less than $100 you can own something that works the way a DVR is supposed to work. Automatic recordings (season pass) of your favorite programs without even thinking. If the Survivor finale comes on next Sunday instead of the regular Thursday, it will still record it. You don't have to do anything. Don't get me wrong, if your work-around works for you that's great. However, for very little money I can get a unit that works to its fullest potential.
-- Edited by Bill Adams at 23:11, 2007-09-17
SoCalToolGuy said
10:27 PM Sep 17, 2007
Bill, please don't get me wrong. You are right. I was just meaning that if you have a Tivo it might fill the bill for a while. I just love the simplicity of Tivo. We had the DVR's that Time Warner uses for a while just so we could record HD and it couldn't compare to Tivo for funtionality. I am not familiar with the units that you are talking about. We will more than likely have to switch to yours eventually. It's a shame though. We just bought a 180 hour dual tuner and I hate losing money.
Ray
RVDude said
11:42 PM Sep 19, 2007
TIVO Series 2 (mine is over 5 years old) only needs a phone line for the initial programming of the TIVO iteself. Once you config it for your TV service you can use only a WiFi connection to update the program listings. This only needs to be done once every two weeks - the TIVO schedule download timeframe. You need to add a WiFi adapter to the USB port on the back of the Series 2 TIVO and then config the TIVO for each WiFi setup you want to connect to and download from.
-- Edited by RVDude at 10:14, 2007-09-20
Bill Adams said
08:23 AM Sep 20, 2007
RVDude,
Congratulations on making your Tivo work with the Hughes service. You are the first person I have heard of who has been able to successfully do this. The Hughes proxy servers have prevent a connection ever since their move to the 6000 and higher modems. You must have done something different of have some kind of updated hardware that would allow this.
Thanks for any information you might have available. Please also post what and how you have been able to make this work over at www.datastormusers.com
RVDude said
10:59 AM Sep 20, 2007
Bill, I played with Tivo/Moto back at the home front and *thought* I had gotten a connection. From your post that is doubtful - unless I caught a day when their proxies were changed. I don't have my Tivo stuff on the road with me this time but when I get back home I'll certainly play with it and confirm. None-the-less, I suspect the Tivo WiFi should work on many campground based WiFi setups.
Bill Adams said
06:28 PM Sep 20, 2007
I know the Tivo units don't have any kind of Wi-fi connection by default so I really have been basing my comments on using the included connections and no one has been successful with any kind of an internet connection that I know of. The Wi-fi option adds lots of connection options and that's a very good thing.
The DTV/DVR combo is still the most compact solution as it only requires one box, but when you are a Tivo fan it's hard to rip that box out of your hands!
SoCalToolGuy said
07:10 PM Sep 20, 2007
Bill, the main reason that we favor the Tivo is for it's simplicity of programming. It is so much easier to use than the one we were given by Time Warner that we had to switch back and let go of the HD recording option. I would be interested in seeing how you program the unit you are talking about. Is the remote control as easy to use? I have never seen anything as idiotproof as the Tivo. I am really curious about the one you use. What is the actual brand name. I am going to see if they have it at BestBuy. Thanks for the info. Ray.
P.S. Howard has mentioned numerous times in his journal that they "Tivo" a lot of the stuff they watch. What equipment are they using?
-- Edited by SoCalToolGuy at 21:24, 2007-09-20
Bill Adams said
07:27 PM Sep 20, 2007
Tivo has become synonymous with any kind of a DVR but like "facial tissue" is known as Kleenex.
If I want to record a program I just bring up the guide and click the upcoming program if it's in the next few hours. If it's next week then I bring up the program guide and hit the Enter key with allows me to select a time and day of the week. Once there just select the program to record and you are done.
Want to watch Survivor every time it comes on? Just select Season Pass and it will record it on that channel every time the guide indicates that it is on no matter what day that is (The finally is usually on Sunday and not the regular Thursday night).
Looking for a program to record? Just go to wish list and type in the name (I keep looking for Northern Exposure to return) and it will check for any upcoming program on any channel with that name. This comes in handy during the Holiday's when I need to find Janet's favorite "Christmas Carol" movie.
I guess Tivo is easy to use but I can imagine it being any easier than this!
The current DVR release is a DirecTV R-15 or for HD programming I believe that it is a HD-20 (not an HD fan so not real sure about that one) but Best Buy would have all of the current units in stock if you want to take look.
I have never had a Tivo unit so you will have to let me know what makes the Tivo so much better. The only thing I don't like about my box (R-10, older unit) is that the guide is very hard to read from a distance. 8 channels are listed and the print is so small you need very good eyes, a big TV screen or a good squint to see what's on.
SoCalToolGuy said
08:30 PM Sep 20, 2007
Bill, how far out does the program info go. When we had the Time Warner service it would only give us info for 3-4 days in advance. The Tivo service uses TV Guide programming info and is 2 weeks out. You can really see what is coming. It is very easy to read too. Everything is in large fonts. It's too bad you have never had the opportunity to use a Tivo. I agree with you though that Tivo is like Kleenex. I will be waiting for more info from RV Dude. It sounds like he is more knowledgeable on the subject than I am. I have never messed around with the WiFi aspect of Tivo. It sounds interesting though. Thanks for your input. I am learning a lot.
Ray
Bill Adams said
08:56 PM Sep 20, 2007
The guide has data for 2 weeks from today (through Oct 3rd). DTV used to use Tivo as their service provider and now has taken the service on themselves (all/most lawsuits have been settled). My R-10 box has the Tivo logo. The new R-15 boxes do not.
SoCalToolGuy said
09:13 PM Sep 20, 2007
If that is the case, we are probably both talking about the same machine with different names on them. Sure sounds like it. If that is that case I look forward to using that machine. Now I am really wondering why a Tivo machine won't work with the satellite system. It just seems that there must be a way to make a Tivo talk to the internet. Come on RV Dude.
Ray
RVDude said
09:31 PM Sep 20, 2007
I have used DVRs from various Time Warner and Comcast networks and without a doubt the Tivo interface slaps them silly in terms of ease of use AND the power of the Tivo search/record/schedule capabilities. Tivo is "inside" some cable operator's boxes, but I don't know which - TW & Comcast boxes and capabilities are all different in different regions of the country. At one time DirecTv (I think) used a Tivo DVR in their sat box.
Ray
The sat decision is just like every other decision when looking at YOUR lifestyle and changing it. It is a biggie with potentially perceived small return.
Always remember, it can just as easily be added later. So... Figure out how important an internet connection is and couple that with where your travels take you.
First, I might suggest start trying an alternative approach, cell systems like EVDO or air cards and the like, or go low budget and just try using freebie WiFi in hotel parking lots and campgrounds. Do these to SEE if these lower cost solutions will work for you. (Make note that theft of WiFi - as in cruising down neighborhoods and randomly connecting is technically a federal offense).
There are security issues in using random/freebie WiFi, you are on a public network and are vulnerable to the unscrupulous. Keep your firewall/virus UP TO DATE (do this always all the time) but you are still not totally secure on these systems. The air cards are secure. Sat is secure-if set up properly.
If the hassles of finding a freebie WiFi bother you or you find yourself often off-the-beaten-path where cell is weak/unavailable you will have to move to sat.
For me the decision went as follows: I found I am away from cell coverage much of the time so a card would never work. I tried hunting for freebie WiFi and found it aggravating (note that hunting for freebies mean you are probably in a town with cell coverage anyway), and security is always a major concern for me since I still manage all my investments regularly online. I opted for the automatic roof mount. I traded the hassle for making storage for a tripod system, the potential for a tree interference (which can be mitigated by a tripod mount) for the convienance of auto sat find-just push a button, remote deploying in the rain-again just push a button, and the unobtrusivness of a rooftop mount while parking in a WalMart type setting.
Hence, for the convenience of always having a secure connection anywhere sat just had to be done. For MY lifestyle, I would never turn back.
-- Edited by RVDude at 16:33, 2007-09-12
I set up most every time we camp. It takes 15 to 45 minutes depending on how well things go. Today was a great day.
What I tell people mostly is to try the wi-fi route first. It is cheap since most wi-fi's are free and a USB wi-fi adapter is $50 if you don't have one built-in to your computer. You will know if you are ready for satellite internet after a while. Paying for daily or weekly access at campgrounds won't add up to the monthly cost of a tripod system or cellular system which is about $60. If you don't go to campgrounds or the ones you go to do not have wi-fi, or the wi-fi is inadequate (very common) then you can start deciding now between automatic and tripod.
The choices are improving as time goes on for alternatives to wi-fi, but neither satellite internet or cellular internet are coming down in price and don't expect them to. Datastorms are the cheapest automatic roof mounts available, they don't have to get cheaper than the approximately $5000 installed price.
Ray
-- Edited by SoCalToolGuy at 20:39, 2007-09-12
If you use the Internet to make wise decisions, you may even be able to justify it over time through savings. Although we didn't have the DataStorm when we started planning our full-timing retirement, I'm sure we saved enough in wise decision-making and good shopping based on what we learned on the Internet that we could almost say the DataStorm was free.
We have the automatic roof top system, and if we had it to do over again, we would get the portable system.
With the roof system the trailer has to be positioned so the the front has a clear shot at the southeastern sky. The net resut is that most often you are placed in the middle of fields in commercial campgrounds and very rarely can get a signal in state and federal parks. With the tether system you can oftentimes place the trailer in the woods and still be able to deploy the dish.
Probably better than $3000 savings over the auto system doesn't hurt either.
I consider the auto system to be one of my major errors, only surpassed by the boat anchor generator that we never use.
Fred
Storage: Some friends started with a tripod and had no trouble setting it up. They did get into fights over the space it took in their bays. They got a trade-in and have a Datastorm since the $3500 difference was easier on their marriage and much cheaper than buying a new RV with more storage. We store our tripod setup in the back seat our tow car while travelling. I do keep enough space in our bays to jam the setup in when we have our motorhome in for service since we need the back seat of the car then. Some people put a storage pod on their RV roof to store the dish. Some people hang the dish on their ladder with some kind of secure mount, which is the hardest piece to find a place to store. The modem and optional wireless router need an inside place with either the Datastorm or tripod.
Ease of use: Push a button on the Datastorm and most of the time you are online in a few minutes. Can be done at lunch. No comparison to a tripod, which takes a minimum of 15 minutes and normally about 30 minutes of dedicated time to setup
Changing satellites: Hughes.net makes it hard. With some of the VARs that support Datastorms it is still hard. With Motosat itself they have enough slots on different satellites that it is normally easy. Why change satellites? Hughes.net has about 10 satellites they are providing service on and they eash have their own good areas and bad areas. Most cover the lower 48 well, some have trouble in New England, some have trouble in the Pacific Northwest, and a couple have trouble in Texas. You want to go to Alaska, only two satellites work. You want to go into Mexico, only two work deep down and a couple others work to about Mexico City. The Maritimes have a similar story. The satellites are on the equator but range from 83 degrees west to 127 degrees west. On the east coast someone on 127 will be pointing more horizontally and trees and buildings can get in the way. The same for someone on 83 on the west coast. If you travel far and wide you might want to be able to change satellites. (We are on 127 and it is working great here in the panhandle of Maryland.)
Advantages of tripods are access to the $60/month plan, cheaper costs, and the ability to put the tripod up to 500 feet away from the RV.
$60/month plan (Home) works well for most, the Datastorms use the higher $70/month plan (Pro) which can be faster, has higher daily limits and most VARs charge $80/month for this plan. We are on the Pro plan since the uploads are faster and we have come close to hitting the Home plan daily limits.
Cheaper costs: Roll your own is about $500 and with a dealer the costs are about $1500-1800 from a good dealer. Not good dealers don't provide good support. Roll your own can be very hard.
500 feet from RV is about what you can do with high quality cable. Don't buy cheap cable or connectors, they are about the number one problem tripod users have. We carry about 200 feet of cable as (3) sets of 50 feet and (2) sets of 25 feet. 99% of the time we use either one 25' or one 50' and have only gone over 50' a couple times in four years. But that 50' can put the tripod where it works and the RV can be in the trees. A good friend spent two months with his tripod 200 feet from his fifth wheel. We have encoutered a cable problem and the other sets are spares.
That enough info?
Of course, we have the rooftop automatic satellite dish - the Datastorm made by Motosat.
It is probably the BEST decision we have made. Yes, we have to watch where we park, but everyone has seen the places we have parked and they ain't too shabby. In 79 stops over two years, we have been in two campgrounds where we couldn't get a signal.
In one, we were only there for one night and didn't even try a different site. In the other, we tried multiple sites and just couldn't get through the trees. We drove 8 miles into town and used WiFi for those few days.
So in almost two and half years since we had the Datastorm installed, we have been without satellite internet in the rig for a total of about seven full days. Some of that time was due to equipment issues on our end that were fixed rather quickly.
As bjoyce said, it's very important to have a "good dealer" that provides good support.
Fred, I'm not sure what the problem is, but you should NEVER have to position the trailer in one direction for the Datastorm to work. It rotates 360 degrees and you should be able to park in any direction you want as long as there is a window to the southern sky. The dish should find the satellite through that window no matter where the front of the rig is. It would certainly be a pain if you always had to park the rig with the front facing in one direction, but that should not be the case at all. I don't know if I can help you on that, but I'm sure willing to give it a shot.
Usually, with our little compass we can find an acceptable window. When there are no obstructions, we are locked on in about three minutes. If there are potential obstructions, then "yes" we have spent an hour or two at some campgrounds getting positioned just right to get our signal. But we've got time, so those little hassles every once in awhile still don't make me wish we had a tripod set-up.
There are definitely pros and cons. And they have been laid out well here. For us, the scale always tips in favor of the automatic dish.
I've only needed support once, but I had an email back within moments of sending one describing my problem, and we solved the problem completely over email in a short amount of time, although he was available by phone if I wanted. I preferred the email, so I could save them in case of future problems.
Ask around, and find someone you're sure will give you good support. I think that's the critical issue. I can recommend Bill with no reservations.
You can read about our installation here.
Bill Adams owner of Internet Anywhere and
Bud Burton owner of Mobile Satellite Technologies a.k.a Mobilsat
are the two most prominent. Bill through his activism in support of sat technologies and Bud through the magnitude of his enterprise. Bud personally installed my dish. Both have superb tech support capabilities.
Mobilsat is an ISP as well and that will prove to be very important in your long term happiness and flexibility (esp. bird swapping). I don't know if Bill is an ISP but, you won't go wrong with either!!
-- Edited by RVDude at 01:01, 2007-09-14
Bill Adams is User 24 and provides great support and uses Motosat as the ISP, which is the largest one.
Steve O'Bosky is User 50 and is a great guy.
Jim and Chris Guld, who post here sometimes, are User 787 and I trust they will do a good job.
I am a little bothered recommending Mobilsat because some friends went to Alaska in 2006 and Mobilsat was unable to change them to satellite 127 while the Datastorm users with Motosat as their ISP/VAR were able to change. Maybe they say they can change satellites, but they let my friends down. Otherwise my friends are happy with Mobilsat and they were glad to save the $10/month.
We're up in Coeur D'Alene Idaho right now and can't seem to get service in an open field. We called them 2 hours ago and are still waiting for a call back. I don't think they have enough staff in Technical Service. We complained once last year to Bud and actually got a call from a tech giving us what for, for complaining.
Fred
In the meantime Jo had called Bud and left a message. He called her back and apologized, but said they still have the best service of any of the resellers, the others are actually worse.
Claims the problem is being unable to hire people because the unemployment rate is so low.
I suspect offering higher wages might offset that to some degree.
How about hearing from some members that have other providers, does it take you hours to get a call back from technical services??
We're thinking of changing providers once our contract is up.
Fred
He uses Motosat/Datastorm as an ISP. Motosat provides at the "pro" level. We have been very pleased with their support. I met Royal Lamb and several of the Motosat support team at the the FMCA in Redmond last month. Very nice, knowledgeable people.
Mike
PS, there is a new hiDef dish coming out but it will be larger with 5 lnb's.
As was mentioned earlier, www.datastormusers.com is an excellent site for information related to ALL things satellite internet. It is primarily focused on the automatic internet antennas and the Datastorm specifically, but there is a tripod section as well.
Since all of us are Hughes users the topics related to the Hughes internet service applies to us all no matter how you point your antenna.
There are approximately the same number of automatic and manual dish users out there so you are going to get (strong) opinions on both sides. There certainly are advantages to both systems. The automatic antennas are designed for folks who NEED (you don't have to have a business to need a connection) to connect to the internet when the want to and not when they can. The Datastorm can be setup when it's rainy, hot, cold, snowing, whatever. You can be up and on-line in about 10-15 minutes at a rest stop if you like. All the hardware stows out of the way on the roof and the only thing you need to know is where is the Southern sky. Yes, this does take some camping options out of the loop but I don't like being buried in the trees anyway so this works just fine for me.
Just about any other option is going to be cheaper, but no other option will be as dependable or available. The service will also work in Canada and Mexico should your travels take you there.
Hello to all and I will be watching you!
-- Edited by Bill Adams at 23:23, 2007-09-16
You can always find me and where my future travels will take us at:
http://map.datastormusers.com/user3.cfm?user=24
-- Edited by Bill Adams at 23:21, 2007-09-16
Glad to have you and thanks so much for your assistance to our Community.
Now we have knowledge from the best in the business on this subject.
Guess I need to get my house closing done and then see where I end up for a bit so I can get this set up. Guess antenna TV will have to do for a while. LOL!
If I buy a DVR at Best Buy (or where ever), how does that become my D-TV receiver? (Yes, dummie here.....lol!)
-- Edited by Bill Adams at 23:11, 2007-09-17
-- Edited by RVDude at 10:14, 2007-09-20
P.S. Howard has mentioned numerous times in his journal that they "Tivo" a lot of the stuff they watch. What equipment are they using?
-- Edited by SoCalToolGuy at 21:24, 2007-09-20
-- Edited by RVDude at 22:51, 2007-09-20