We want to purchase some type of surge guard for our motorhome. We have the Energy Management System on this motorhome but we have been told we need the surge guard also. We would rather not have the type that plugs into the box at the campground. We would rather have the type that is installed in the basement (I guess) of the motorhome. What do you guys recommend? Thanks
Jim01 said
01:40 PM Jun 28, 2007
"Surge Guard" is a very good brand. They have models for both 30A and 50A and you can get the portable type or the type that you wire directly into your electrical system.
Places like Camping World and larger RV shops usually have these in stock. They're pretty expensive, but it sure beats replacing all of the circuit boards in the modern RV.
They're not too difficult to install, but if you're not familiar with electrical systems, get help installing it. A mistake could be dangerous.
Judy said
02:10 PM Jun 28, 2007
Being full timer's we had one installed at Camping World for around $400.00 Plus Installing about another $100.00. Everyone should have one. southwestjudy & Bob & 2blackdogs
wmalefyt said
02:40 PM Jun 28, 2007
We also had a 50amp surge guard installed at CW. It ran a little over $400.00 installed, but we used the CW E-Z Pay Credit Card which gives you 6 months to pay interest free on big ticket items.
I feel it's a worthwhile investment and got it only after we had to replace the control board on our Norcold refrigerator. We were told it was probably blown by a surge of electricity.
Our next RV will have one installed at the factory or immediately after we take delivery!
Roz said
06:27 AM Jun 29, 2007
Ditto, Ditto and Ditto!!!
We have had our system go down due to fluctuations in voltage in a campground. As the brown out ended, there were some very unhappy campers - we just started up again.
These Surge Protectors should be standard equipment!
Charles
Howard said
10:59 AM Jun 29, 2007
Mike & Gerri,
This is an extremely important topic, so I want to be sure everyone knows we are talking about more than just a surge protector here. I know you understand, but I want everyone else to be clear as well.
What we are talking about is a surge protector with voltage protection, a device that protects against not only surges, but under/over voltage situations, and mis-wired electrical circuits coming into your rig.
These devices are not cheap, but, in my opinion, they should be standard equipment on every RV. If you don't have one, get one! It's a top three necessity in my book.
They protect your whole electrical system and can prevent the frying of appliances and electronics. And, if you do much traveling at all, YOU WILL run into over/under voltage and mis-wired circuits.
Now that I've made that clear, there are two really good companies according to Steve Savage, tech instructor at Life On Wheels:
As stated previously, there are hard-wired models and models that you simply plug into the electrical pedestal. It's easier for someone to run off with the non-hard-wired models, but that's a rare occurrence.
Surge Guard is carried by Camping World. But no matter which one you choose, be sure the hard-wired models are installed by a qualified RV electrical technician or someone that REALLY knows what they are doing. Ask questions about the tech's experience with these products.
We have the 50 amp hard-wired Surge Guard. It took us almost a year to learn we needed one, and we were very lucky in the time before we got it.
Add one of these electrical system protection devices to your MUST have lists!
SoCalToolGuy said
12:12 PM Jun 29, 2007
my question is, what is the difference between the EMS and the surge guard. I was under the impression that the EMS covered both situations. Please clarify. Thanks,
Ray
azed said
12:19 PM Jun 29, 2007
We too bought an after market 50 amp Surge Guard unit.
I didn't want to worry about having it wired into the MH,
so we got the portable type that will mount at the pedestal
in the campground. However, being that its an expensive
item, I was worried about it disappearing in the middle of
the night. To solve that issue, we also bought a 50 amp
extension cord, so that the Surge Guard can sit in between
the factory power cord and the extension cord. In this way,
the Surge Guard stays locked in a bay, while the extension
cord is plugged into shore power. Works fine.
Ed
Howard said
12:47 PM Jun 29, 2007
SoCalToolGuy,
I'll let some of the more technically inclined folks answer this question, but here is what I do know. You have to be careful because the term "Energy Management System" is used in different ways.
Some companies call the surge/voltage protection devices we are talking about here "Energy Manament Systems". But I think most are referring to a system built into a coach that prevents you from overloading your circuit - it can actually disable individual appliances.
What I don't know for sure is whether that latter type of system provides the same overall surge protection, voltage protection, and mis-wiring protection as the devices we are discussing here.
I came across one thread that said they do not, but I'm not willing to go on that alone. I'm sure our knowledgeable folks here will have an answer for us.
newbierv said
03:12 PM Jul 1, 2007
We installed the surge guard from Progressive Industries in our fifthwheel and have been very satisfied with it. I think it is well worth the peace of mind.
Papparazzi said
07:05 AM Jul 3, 2007
The EMS on our Winnebago MH manages the load of all the various appliances etc. to allow us to run multiple applainces at one time without blowing a breaker. Ex: we have 2 AC compressors and if we are in a campground that only has 30 amp mode and we have appliances pulling 38 amps then the EMS actually shuts down one of the 2 AC compressors to allow everything to kep working. The EMS will not protect you from Surges.
We have the Surge Guard mounted in the MH. When we hook up it takes about 2-3 monutes before it allows the power into the couch because it alalyzes the power for any problems. My cousin did not have one of these and lost 5 circuit boards in his MH due to a surge. I had used that same hook-up just a few weeks before.
I am sold on them.
SKOOBDO said
08:17 AM Jul 3, 2007
I'm using the Progressive Industries surge/voltage protection unit, and I'm very satisfied with mine also. I think this is a "must have" item for every RVer, especially if you fulltime moving from park to park. You just never know.
bjoyce said
12:45 PM Jul 7, 2007
Here at Life on Wheels in Moscow, ID they are using generators for 30AMP power and the voltage in early usage has sometimes jumped to 130 to 132. Once an air conditioner comes on the voltage drops. People with hardwired surge systems are getting dropped off and complaining. Those of us with non-hardwired systems are removing ours so our air conditioners will run. I suspect as the circuits get loaded with more RVs we will be able to put our unit back in.
Howard said
10:45 AM Jul 8, 2007
Hey Bill,
Those with hard-wired systems should have a bypass switch or key that allows then to effectively "remove" their units in situations like that. Could be that they have older models without the bypass or they simply don't know that option exists. :)
newbierv said
05:24 PM Jul 26, 2007
Yes Bill, we have the hard wired progressive ems system in our unit and it has a bypass switch to turn off.
Speedhitch said
06:10 PM Jul 26, 2007
I might have missed it but is there a web site that has this information on it? I would like to see a schematic on this.
Thanks
RVDude said
12:19 PM Jul 27, 2007
As Howard said, the term EMS (Electrical or Energy Management System) can be used a couple of very different ways.
1) "EMS" can be used to refer to the electrical surge/sag/high/miswired protectors (the two big brands are Progressive Industries and SurgeGuard) which are typically aftermarket items that we owners install. These units are sort of like the "surge protector" plugs we plug computers into but are far far far far more sophisticated. speedhitch - these are simply wired or plugged in simple series with the rigs' power cord.
which is completely different than the
2) "EMS" systems that manufacturers may install in some rigs to automatically turn off and cycle loads if you are trying to operate a 50amp rig on 30amp. You will (typically) not find these systems in the aftermarket as they are so integral to the rig electrical system as to be infeasible to retro-install.
Travelin Duo said
10:29 AM Jul 28, 2007
Howard and Bill My curosity is raised with the need to take your surge protector out of service, at any time? Isn't the reason for the surge guard just for those times when you might be experiencing high and low voltages? I guess my impression of a shut off switch was only if the surge guard wasn't working properly. Please clarify this issue if possible, before I buy the wrong thing for our new Vectra. Thanks Larry
Howard said
12:46 PM Jul 28, 2007
Larry,
The "bypass" key or switch is to be used only in "emergency situations" according to the manufacturers. Of course what constitutes an emergency may be different from person to person.
But the "bypass" CAN be used in low voltage situations or temporary surge situations like Bill described to keep power coming into the coach. I'm not saying it's a good idea, but it may be better than going without electricity at all or moving to another campground.
Our SurgeGuard shuts us down below 102 volts or above 132 volts. And I'm glad it does. If we were to hook up in a campground and it never allowed power from the pedestal, we would change sites or leave the campground rather than use the "bypass".
The "bypass" only bypasses the low/high voltage monitoring. Surge protection remains in effect. Of course, using the "bypass" could put appliances in danger of damage due to the low or high voltage situation.
So, you are correct. It's not a good idea to ever "bypass" the system. But you can - even with the hardwired protectors. However, I would make sure I knew each appliance's low/high voltage ratings first, and I would have a pretty darn good idea as to why the system is shutting down before using the "bypass".
Hope that helps!
Travelin Duo said
01:06 PM Jul 28, 2007
Howard
Thank you for clarifing that issue for me. It does seem like a pretty bad idea to take a chance with low or high voltage coming into the coach. I will definetly look into installing a surge protector into my coach, and thanks for your quick reply.
Larry
bjoyce said
11:07 AM Jul 29, 2007
Note: At Life on Wheels in Moscow this year they changed out the big generator and that seemed to help the electrical issues. Surge suppression is to help you avoid damage from "surges" which can be in thousands of volts. That both Surge Guard and Progressive Industries also have low and high voltage protection is where these devices give people fits and where a bypass is sometimes needed. If your incoming voltage is momentarily 132 volts they cut you off for a while. With a bypass your air conditioner or battery charger gets a chance to activate and the voltage goes down to something in the 120s and everything is fine. Low voltage is another problem and is best handled by knowing it is happening so you can control what is turned on or using a device to convert amps to volts like an autoformer. I recommend everyone use a voltage meter inside their RV to monitor the voltage coming in. If you have a modified sine-wave (more accurately a "modified square wave") inverter this voltage meter needs to be an "RMS" meter or it will give you inaccurate readings off your inverter. We use a "Good Governer" voltage meter, which is RMS.
What do you guys recommend?
Thanks
"Surge Guard" is a very good brand. They have models for both 30A and 50A and you can get the portable type or the type that you wire directly into your electrical system.
Places like Camping World and larger RV shops usually have these in stock. They're pretty expensive, but it sure beats replacing all of the circuit boards in the modern RV.
They're not too difficult to install, but if you're not familiar with electrical systems, get help installing it. A mistake could be dangerous.
southwestjudy & Bob & 2blackdogs
I feel it's a worthwhile investment and got it only after we had to replace the control board on our Norcold refrigerator. We were told it was probably blown by a surge of electricity.
Our next RV will have one installed at the factory or immediately after we take delivery!
This is an extremely important topic, so I want to be sure everyone knows we are talking about more than just a surge protector here. I know you understand, but I want everyone else to be clear as well.
What we are talking about is a surge protector with voltage protection, a device that protects against not only surges, but under/over voltage situations, and mis-wired electrical circuits coming into your rig.
These devices are not cheap, but, in my opinion, they should be standard equipment on every RV. If you don't have one, get one! It's a top three necessity in my book.
They protect your whole electrical system and can prevent the frying of appliances and electronics. And, if you do much traveling at all, YOU WILL run into over/under voltage and mis-wired circuits.
Now that I've made that clear, there are two really good companies according to Steve Savage, tech instructor at Life On Wheels:
Surge Guard and Progressive Industries
As stated previously, there are hard-wired models and models that you simply plug into the electrical pedestal. It's easier for someone to run off with the non-hard-wired models, but that's a rare occurrence.
Surge Guard is carried by Camping World. But no matter which one you choose, be sure the hard-wired models are installed by a qualified RV electrical technician or someone that REALLY knows what they are doing. Ask questions about the tech's experience with these products.
We have the 50 amp hard-wired Surge Guard. It took us almost a year to learn we needed one, and we were very lucky in the time before we got it.
Add one of these electrical system protection devices to your MUST have lists!
I'll let some of the more technically inclined folks answer this question, but here is what I do know. You have to be careful because the term "Energy Management System" is used in different ways.
Some companies call the surge/voltage protection devices we are talking about here "Energy Manament Systems". But I think most are referring to a system built into a coach that prevents you from overloading your circuit - it can actually disable individual appliances.
What I don't know for sure is whether that latter type of system provides the same overall surge protection, voltage protection, and mis-wiring protection as the devices we are discussing here.
I came across one thread that said they do not, but I'm not willing to go on that alone. I'm sure our knowledgeable folks here will have an answer for us.
We installed the surge guard from Progressive Industries in our fifthwheel and have been very satisfied with it. I think it is well worth the peace of mind.
We have the Surge Guard mounted in the MH. When we hook up it takes about 2-3 monutes before it allows the power into the couch because it alalyzes the power for any problems. My cousin did not have one of these and lost 5 circuit boards in his MH due to a surge. I had used that same hook-up just a few weeks before.
I am sold on them.
I'm using the Progressive Industries surge/voltage protection unit, and I'm very satisfied with mine also. I think this is a "must have" item for every RVer, especially if you fulltime moving from park to park. You just never know.
Those with hard-wired systems should have a bypass switch or key that allows then to effectively "remove" their units in situations like that. Could be that they have older models without the bypass or they simply don't know that option exists. :)
1) "EMS" can be used to refer to the electrical surge/sag/high/miswired protectors (the two big brands are Progressive Industries and SurgeGuard) which are typically aftermarket items that we owners install. These units are sort of like the "surge protector" plugs we plug computers into but are far far far far more sophisticated. speedhitch - these are simply wired or plugged in simple series with the rigs' power cord.
which is completely different than the
2) "EMS" systems that manufacturers may install in some rigs to automatically turn off and cycle loads if you are trying to operate a 50amp rig on 30amp. You will (typically) not find these systems in the aftermarket as they are so integral to the rig electrical system as to be infeasible to retro-install.
My curosity is raised with the need to take your surge protector out of service, at any time? Isn't the reason for the surge guard just for those times when you might be experiencing high and low voltages? I guess my impression of a shut off switch was only if the surge guard wasn't working properly. Please clarify this issue if possible, before I buy the wrong thing for our new Vectra.
Thanks
Larry
The "bypass" key or switch is to be used only in "emergency situations" according to the manufacturers. Of course what constitutes an emergency may be different from person to person.
But the "bypass" CAN be used in low voltage situations or temporary surge situations like Bill described to keep power coming into the coach. I'm not saying it's a good idea, but it may be better than going without electricity at all or moving to another campground.
Our SurgeGuard shuts us down below 102 volts or above 132 volts. And I'm glad it does. If we were to hook up in a campground and it never allowed power from the pedestal, we would change sites or leave the campground rather than use the "bypass".
The "bypass" only bypasses the low/high voltage monitoring. Surge protection remains in effect. Of course, using the "bypass" could put appliances in danger of damage due to the low or high voltage situation.
So, you are correct. It's not a good idea to ever "bypass" the system. But you can - even with the hardwired protectors. However, I would make sure I knew each appliance's low/high voltage ratings first, and I would have a pretty darn good idea as to why the system is shutting down before using the "bypass".
Hope that helps!
Surge suppression is to help you avoid damage from "surges" which can be in thousands of volts. That both Surge Guard and Progressive Industries also have low and high voltage protection is where these devices give people fits and where a bypass is sometimes needed. If your incoming voltage is momentarily 132 volts they cut you off for a while. With a bypass your air conditioner or battery charger gets a chance to activate and the voltage goes down to something in the 120s and everything is fine. Low voltage is another problem and is best handled by knowing it is happening so you can control what is turned on or using a device to convert amps to volts like an autoformer.
I recommend everyone use a voltage meter inside their RV to monitor the voltage coming in. If you have a modified sine-wave (more accurately a "modified square wave") inverter this voltage meter needs to be an "RMS" meter or it will give you inaccurate readings off your inverter. We use a "Good Governer" voltage meter, which is RMS.