This question maybe for others as well as myself If you are in a site and another fellow rv'er comes in and has a "Big Dish" datastorm 3 (at least I think thats what it is) and your pc brings it in as another wi-fi network available do you ever use your fellow rv'ers. We are dumb when it comes to tech.
Hope I explained this well enough. southwestjudy & Bob & 2blackdogs
Sandra said
07:26 PM Jun 10, 2007
We have used it if it's unsecured before we got our own system.
mikeway said
09:02 PM Jun 10, 2007
I have spent some time "War Driving" but technically, there are legal issues. That said, ask first; they will usually allow you to use their access point. That's how I sampled the whole Datastorm thing 4 years ago.
However, I can barely use mine outside of the coach. Need to fix that, LOL.
Mike
wmalefyt said
03:32 PM Jun 11, 2007
I guess it's free game if they don't have a secure connection. I wouldn't feel any guilt by using their network to access the Internet. Tell me if I'm violating some ethics by doing this.
Howard said
06:13 PM Jun 11, 2007
I've got one of those wishy-washy answers for you.
First of all, it's sort of like getting free cable TV by splicing into your neighbor's cable without his knowledge. You get the service and he pays the bill. Some people don't take kindly to that.
Now, with that said, MOST people don't care if you use their satellite internet service. And most wouldn't even know it if you did use their service.
Ethically, you really should ask because there are usage limitations that the person is paying for. And your use may slow down the other person's speed. It would even be a good gesture to offer to pay some nominal amount for access. You'll usually get a "no problem, go ahead".
On the other hand, if they really don't want you using their system, it's pretty easy to set up a "secured" system. Or you can even have a system that looks unsecured but only allows certain computers to have access.
So, can you assume that it is fair game if the dish owner has not taken the simple steps to keep everyone out? Well, I would expect others to use our network if I left it unsecured. But I would sure appreciate it if folks asked first.
wmalefyt said
07:24 AM Jun 12, 2007
Howard wrote:
I've got one of those wishy-washy answers for you.
First of all, it's sort of like getting free cable TV by splicing into your neighbor's cable without his knowledge. You get the service and he pays the bill. Some people don't take kindly to that.
Now, with that said, MOST people don't care if you use their satellite internet service. And most wouldn't even know it if you did use their service.
Ethically, you really should ask because there are usage limitations that the person is paying for. And your use may slow down the other person's speed. It would even be a good gesture to offer to pay some nominal amount for access. You'll usually get a "no problem, go ahead".
On the other hand, if they really don't want you using their system, it's pretty easy to set up a "secured" system. Or you can even have a system that looks unsecured but only allows certain computers to have access.
So, can you assume that it is fair game if the dish owner has not taken the simple steps to keep everyone out? Well, I would expect others to use our network if I left it unsecured. But I would sure appreciate it if folks asked first.
Howard,
It's not exactly like having to physically "splice" into my neighbor's cable, that indeed is stealing! All I do is turn on my computer and the neighbor's unsecured connection is there which is telling me ok go ahead and use it!
I guess I can agree that one should ask first just to be a good neighbor!
Tim & Robyn said
09:51 AM Jun 12, 2007
Ethically, using it just because it's not secured really isn't any different than the apple pie fresh out of the oven sitting in the open window cooling off. Is it, because it isn't secured behind a closed window, saying 'go ahead and eat me'? Some people simply may not have the technical savvy to secure their connection.
Luvglass said
01:05 PM Jun 12, 2007
fansler wrote:
Ethically, using it just because it's not secured really isn't any different than the apple pie fresh out of the oven sitting in the open window cooling off. Is it, because it isn't secured behind a closed window, saying 'go ahead and eat me'? Some people simply may not have the technical savvy to secure their connection.
That arguement is not comparing "aples to apples", if I eat the pie, it's no longer available to you, that's clearly stealing. But if I use the internet signal it's still available to you, and in fact you won't even know I used it.
If someone sets up their own system, they have the technical savvy to secure it, and if it was professionally installed they were probably asked if they wanted it secured and declined. To my mind, the most likely scenario is that if it's not secured, it was meant to be that way.
The larger question is, if there's no victim - is there a crime
Fred
Judy said
01:13 PM Jun 12, 2007
I think that if one spends that much money on a system as that you would certainly know how to secure it....buying things and not knowing how to use them can be dangerous. Its not our pcs fault if it shows up on our screens. southwestjudy & Bob & 2blackdogs
wmalefyt said
03:39 PM Jun 12, 2007
I certainly agree with Fred and Judy! Well said in both cases.
Tmcblane said
07:11 AM Jun 13, 2007
This is the reason I had to secure my system. People just assume if it is there they can use it. I use to leave my system unsecured so my fellow campers could use it but as is most cases of trying to be generous there is always someone to take advantage of you. The issue with using a network that is not yours is if everybody jumps on it then the band width gets used up and if it is my system they cut my service for the next 24 hours to a crazy slow connection for overrunning the allotment of bandwidth. Sure that may not bother you cause you will just jump on the next free system to show up. Now I secure it anytime I am traveling and will not share it. Perhaps when you guys spend the large sum of money you can be as generous at sharing as you are at taking. The least you should do is ask before you use an open system or if you are going to log on to it use is for only necessary access.
I guess if we leave our systems open it just doesn't pay to be friendly. So when everyone figures that out, you guys will have to either buy a system or pay the campground for service or go without. It is sad that it happens that way. In a year of traveling with the system I never one time had anyone ask if they could use it, yet you can tell when someone is hitting your system by watching the tramsmit lights on the modem.
As for is it stealing if it is in the air? I believe so, just like if you somehow snag one of the satellite stations without paying for it you can be charged with theft of services. -- Edited by Tmcblane at 08:15, 2007-06-13
-- Edited by Tmcblane at 08:18, 2007-06-13
Tim & Robyn said
07:20 AM Jun 13, 2007
If there are usage limitations which, when exceeded, result in deliberate slowdowns in service by the ISP, then I would say that the subscriber to the service is not getting what they are paying for. That's taking money out of their pockets, and that is stealing. If it were me, I would certainly regard myself as a victim in that case. Of course it wouldn't happen because my connection would be secured! There are lots of victimless crimes on the books, most of which have to do with trying to force someone else's notions of morality on other people.
Whether there is a law against it or not, I always try to conduct myself according to 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'. If everybody would do that we wouldn't need so many laws...
53 Merc said
07:48 AM Jun 13, 2007
Do unto others ----. You know, we were given only 10 laws from Sinai. If we could just use those 10 plus the "Golden" one, congress could close down. Oh wait, they seem to have done that already this year.
Ken
wmalefyt said
01:32 PM Jun 13, 2007
Tmcblane wrote:
This is the reason I had to secure my system. People just assume if it is there they can use it. I use to leave my system unsecured so my fellow campers could use it but as is most cases of trying to be generous there is always someone to take advantage of you. The issue with using a network that is not yours is if everybody jumps on it then the band width gets used up and if it is my system they cut my service for the next 24 hours to a crazy slow connection for overrunning the allotment of bandwidth. Sure that may not bother you cause you will just jump on the next free system to show up. Now I secure it anytime I am traveling and will not share it. Perhaps when you guys spend the large sum of money you can be as generous at sharing as you are at taking. The least you should do is ask before you use an open system or if you are going to log on to it use is for only necessary access.
I guess if we leave our systems open it just doesn't pay to be friendly. So when everyone figures that out, you guys will have to either buy a system or pay the campground for service or go without. It is sad that it happens that way. In a year of traveling with the system I never one time had anyone ask if they could use it, yet you can tell when someone is hitting your system by watching the tramsmit lights on the modem.
As for is it stealing if it is in the air? I believe so, just like if you somehow snag one of the satellite stations without paying for it you can be charged with theft of services. -- Edited by Tmcblane at 08:15, 2007-06-13
-- Edited by Tmcblane at 08:18, 2007-06-13
Well, I guess I learned something today! I now have a different viewpoint on using my neighbor's unsecured satellite connection so the least I can do is ask first! I guess I was thinking it's no different than turning on a radio and picking up a signal.
Thanks for the explanation!
Tim & Robyn said
01:53 PM Jun 13, 2007
Maybe the ISPs slow the service precisely to discourage sharing... They want your money too... Just a thought. But then, they also have to pay for the satellite band width they use... It's like an interstate highway... there are only so many lanes, and the more traffic there is, the slower it all moves... unless you're on the Atlanta bypass, where speed limits mean nothing no matter how much traffic there is.... Yow! Watch out!
Tmcblane said
02:49 PM Jun 13, 2007
Bill, most of the time the average user will not hit the limit for bandwidth even with a couple of people surfing off the line, what happens is when a guy logs on and starts downloading videos or large files, then it Fap's (Fair access policy ) the owner of the service. It only needs to exceed the limit one time and after that moment the speed drops to some low service like dial up speed. That will stay in effect for 24 hours.
I would gladly let anyone use my system if they would just ask. I would not expect to be paid for the use as I already am paying. If someone was to insist on paying a couple of bucks that would be icing on top of the cake. :)
mrsgeek said
07:07 AM Jun 24, 2007
I absolutely believe a good neighbor should ask first - but, that being said, if it is impractical to ask, I have no problem hopping on an unsecured network just to check email or look at a website or two. DO NOT start online gaming, or download a movie, or anything involving lots of bandwidth. That's not nice.
If you are in a site and another fellow rv'er comes in and has a "Big Dish" datastorm 3 (at least I think thats what it is) and your pc brings it in as another wi-fi network available do you ever use your fellow rv'ers. We are dumb when it comes to tech.
Hope I explained this well enough.
southwestjudy & Bob & 2blackdogs
However, I can barely use mine outside of the coach. Need to fix that, LOL.
Mike
First of all, it's sort of like getting free cable TV by splicing into your neighbor's cable without his knowledge. You get the service and he pays the bill. Some people don't take kindly to that.
Now, with that said, MOST people don't care if you use their satellite internet service. And most wouldn't even know it if you did use their service.
Ethically, you really should ask because there are usage limitations that the person is paying for. And your use may slow down the other person's speed. It would even be a good gesture to offer to pay some nominal amount for access. You'll usually get a "no problem, go ahead".
On the other hand, if they really don't want you using their system, it's pretty easy to set up a "secured" system. Or you can even have a system that looks unsecured but only allows certain computers to have access.
So, can you assume that it is fair game if the dish owner has not taken the simple steps to keep everyone out? Well, I would expect others to use our network if I left it unsecured. But I would sure appreciate it if folks asked first.
It's not exactly like having to physically "splice" into my neighbor's cable, that indeed is stealing! All I do is turn on my computer and the neighbor's unsecured connection is there which is telling me ok go ahead and use it!
I guess I can agree that one should ask first just to be a good neighbor!
If someone sets up their own system, they have the technical savvy to secure it, and if it was professionally installed they were probably asked if they wanted it secured and declined. To my mind, the most likely scenario is that if it's not secured, it was meant to be that way.
The larger question is, if there's no victim - is there a crime
Fred
I think that if one spends that much money on a system as that you would certainly know how to secure it....buying things and not knowing how to use them can be dangerous. Its not our pcs fault if it shows up on our screens.
southwestjudy & Bob & 2blackdogs
I guess if we leave our systems open it just doesn't pay to be friendly. So when everyone figures that out, you guys will have to either buy a system or pay the campground for service or go without. It is sad that it happens that way. In a year of traveling with the system I never one time had anyone ask if they could use it, yet you can tell when someone is hitting your system by watching the tramsmit lights on the modem.
As for is it stealing if it is in the air? I believe so, just like if you somehow snag one of the satellite stations without paying for it you can be charged with theft of services.
-- Edited by Tmcblane at 08:15, 2007-06-13
-- Edited by Tmcblane at 08:18, 2007-06-13
Whether there is a law against it or not, I always try to conduct myself according to 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'. If everybody would do that we wouldn't need so many laws...
Thanks for the explanation!