As I wrote in the ‘Introduce Yourself’ forum, Ken and I have been looking for our first MH for close to a year now. We have driven both gas and diesel.
I am not particular that we have a DP. However, my personal test-drive experience in the motorhomes has been that the gas MH we drove felt like driving a boat they had so much bob and weave compared to the diesel. They also seems to get knocked to the side more when passed by trucks. I found this really unnerving since these were my first experiences driving vehicles of this size.
The DP we drove, a 38' Sportscoach, seemed tight to the road even when passed by semi's. I'd never driven a DP before and it handled like a dream.There is one of these coming in with a dealer we really like working with that we can get for the price of comparable Gas MH’s.
I wanted to stay in the 110K or below range which could get me into some nice gas motorhomes but now I'm thinking the Sportscoach though more basic on amenities might be the way to go for drivability. While Coachmen is not our choice compared to Tiffin or Newmar, the better interior quality won't make much difference if it sits in storage because I'm not comfortable driving it down the road.My concern remains that we may pay later in resale value or that because it is ‘entry level’ we are giving up items that we might not realize we are missing.On the other hand, since we are new to Rving I’m also concerned about buying used and walking into more problems than we are prepared to understand or fix.We live in a small town with the nearest MH dealers 2 hours away in St. Louis.We are hearing that finding a highly reputable dealer is equal in importance to the quality of the unit itself.Howard RV in St. Louis has been awesome to work with so far and seems to fit the bill. (In fact, we are looking at the unit identical to the one Albert Pujols just bought for Jose Oquendo so his wife and family could travel to games in it.)
The dealer had a unit on order that has more options than we intended but we can get for not significantly more than ordering another with less options. Although there seem to be a lot of these new late model Sportscoaches on the market, I’m not seeing much on any forums about quality or reliability on anything newer than 2004.Our proposed unit can be seen at http://www.coachmenrv.com/literature/Sportscoach/crosscountry07.pdfIt is 382DS floorplan with Quicksilver partial paint, with the interior exactly as the brochure and all the options listed except wood floors.Howard and Linda seem to have provided a pretty open environment here with lots of experienced RVers offering opinions, so I’d be very grateful for any candid opinions on our proposed purchase here. Do you see any pros or cons for first-timers with this unit, have any background on Coachmen’s recent reputation for manufacture or know anything about Howard RV as dealer? Thanks in advance for any insights you might be able to provide. C
bjoyce said
07:29 PM Feb 11, 2007
I am a little bothered that you might have done the test drive with the same dealer and salesperson involved. They want to sell you the more expensive motorhome, they make more that way. I would go somewhere else and act like you just want to get a gas motorhome and do some more test drives just to make sure they did not set up a biased test drive. We are happier with our diesel than the gas motorhome, but our gas motorhome drove much better than it sounds like the one you tried did.
Second I am very skeptical that they can't get you a coach with less options for less than the one they already ordered. They want your money sooner, they want you to buy the one they already ordered.
Go to another dealer and see what deal they can give you before you decide that this dealer is the one. If they can make you comfortable enough to not comparison shop they win. Yes that is cynical, but RV sales is cutthroat.
Ken Cindy Ditka and Sox said
11:04 PM Feb 11, 2007
Hi Bill,
Thanks so much for the quick response.
Looking back I was misleading in the way I worded my post.We did not even drive the DP at the dealer we are looking to buy from.
However, your points are very well taken since we’ve learned by experience about working with RV dealers this past year.Because we live 2 hours from the nearest MH dealers our shopping has taken a lot of our time this past year. We’ve had to take weekend trips for RV shopping and have test-driven MH’s now in Indiana, Ohio, Iowa, Missouri and Illinois visiting somewhere upwards of 24 different dealers. It is a very cutthroat business and some of these guys don’t exactly give you a warm and fuzzy.
Actually as it turns out, we first saw and drove a Sportscoach in Iowa but we had absolutely no interest in working with the dealer where we drove the unit. We had gone there to look at a unit he had absolutely no interest in talking to us about and he was actually part of the reason we started using our spreadsheet-and-laptop routine.He was not a regular Coachmen dealer having done a one-time purchase of units from a dealer in bankruptcy.He was way too good at avoiding questions and when I had a problem pulling out a cabinet extension he called in a service tech who said that it wasn’t suppose to extend (We later figured it out ourselves).
After multiple similar instances,we’ve even developed a routine that now makes them stick to our agenda.(After 30 years as a systems analyst, it seems I can’t help myself but develop a procedure for everything I do more than once!!) Here’s how it goes:
Ken checks the websites for the city we’re visiting picking out the dealers that have inventory that might meet our needs.
Before taking the trip, he calls each to ‘pre-qualify’ the units, asking further questions and having them email us the model info and options list (most everything else you can get off the manufacturer site).
After going through what we have we call the dealers back, tell them the units we want to see and approximately when we will be there, making it clear that we are on a very limited time schedule.
By the time we head out I have a pretty detailed Excel spreadsheet showing all the basic comparisons important to us from chassis to awning size.
We walk into the dealership with laptop in hand, and go down the list to fill in the blanks, taking some pictures of décor and anything unusual positive or negative.
As an example, we hit 4 dealers and 11 units last week in STL, with about 90 pictures to download on the drive back.
Last weekend, our 4 dealer tour in STL did not turn up anything we were ready to buy.Howards RV had a Sportscoach on the lot but I really did not like the paint.Eric, the saleman, we’d been talking with there, was not at all put-off by my very methodical review of items and actually seemed intrigued and liked the idea of how we were comparing using spreadsheets and pictures..He did not push us to look at anything that wasn’t on our list.
When we got home andI began to realize I was now comparing everythingto the Sportscoach I’d driven at the dealer I didn’t like, the solution seemed obvious. Find a Sportscoach or similar DP in that price range from a different dealer.I came across RVDirect who sells Coachmen andwas able to get a quote for exactly the unit with options I thought we needed.
I printed off and showed my husband.In the meantime, he confirmed that Howard’s was the nearest Coachmen Sportscoach dealer to us and decided to call Eric back to talk about what I put together on RVDirect.It turned out to be amazingly similar to the unit Howards already had on their order bookright down to the paint and interior colors.It had some niceties such as an inverter, an icemaker, and a bedroom TV, that I had been willing to leave off when I built up what I felt we ‘needed’.The price was also very close.I’m sure we could order exactly my assembled unit from Howards but considering that this one is already on order and we can simply look at it and walk away if we change our mind when it shows up on their lot, seems worth a couple thousand extra compared to ordering a new one site unseen from an online dealer.
My concern is primarily trying to get a better feel for the Sportscoach as a place to start into Rving and if there are items that this entry level MH is missing in options or quality that we will regret not having realized now as rookies. We have a few weeks before its delivered to Howard’s so I’m trying to pull info from anywhere I can so we head back down to St. Louis with our eyes open.
C
ahoweth said
08:32 AM Feb 12, 2007
Hi:
If you are seriously considering a Sportscoach in your future let me suggest that before you lay out your money, invest in a fact finding trip to the factory. I believe Sportscoach, which is a Coachman product is manufactured in or near Elkhart, IN. I truly believe it would be time well spent. Also located in Elkhart is the Damon Factory and the Overland factory. If you have time on the trip drive south to Waukarusa, IN and tour the Monaco factory, Holiday Rambler is also built there. Just about 12 miles south of Waukarusa is Nappinee IN, where the Newmar and Gulfstream factories are located. About 100 miles further south, just south of Goshen is The American Coach factory (A Fleetwood company) in Decatur, IN.
Touring these factories is an eye opening experience that is priceless when you are comparing motorhomes whether gas or diesel. All of these tours are free or at least they were when I took them. It will give you a prospective that can not be obtained any other way. When you are spending that much money you need to know everything you can about your pruchase. Your dealer can not support you any better than the manufacturing company is willing to support them.
I wish you well and happiness with what every you chose.
bjoyce said
10:57 AM Feb 12, 2007
Thanks for the clarification. I am now convinced you are informed buyers.
I really do not know that much about Coachman. They have been up and down over the past fifteen years or so and a few years ago were known for cheap rigs, but not bad rigs. Make sure they do support you as a full-timer and don't void your warranty if you are one. Lately the Sportscoach's have looked interesting and they have the edge on wild paint schemes.
I do know they will fix things under warranty, especially if you do go to the factory. They will also help you with advise and such when out of warranty. I was just talking to a friend with an older motorhome, which Coachman now owns the manufacturer. Coachman has been very helpful about helping him with changes and fixes on the phone.
What kind of inverter? If it is a big 2000 watt inverter-charger you will learn to love it. If it is a small 400-600 watt to run the TV it probably doesn't matter. The big inverter-chargers charge your batteries quite well and let you do things like reheat lunch using the microwave while on the road without turning on the generator.
We ordered both motorhomes we have owned and have been happy with doing so. But I can see the idea of buying one you can touch.
Ken Cindy Ditka and Sox said
02:19 PM Feb 12, 2007
Thanks guys for your thoughts. The factory tours is a good idea and we should have done that a year ago last fall when we were in the Elkhart area. That was when we first started getting serious about RVing and we got too involved in looking at what this coach had and what that coach had rather than trying to figure out the more important questions like: How is it going to be to live in and how is it going to drive? The inverter in the sportscoach is only 1200 watt. I believe that will be enough to run the coffee maker and the microwave but probably not both at the same time. I realize that we are the only ones to be able to determine if this coach is the right coach for us. However, we believe in listening to the voices of experience and value your responses. Thanks Ken F
bjoyce said
05:22 PM Feb 12, 2007
1200 watts will not run the microwave we have in our motorhome, it needs more like 1600 watts. If it is not an inverter-charger, and I haven't seen a 1200 watt one with a charger, it probably doesn't matter much. Smaller inverters are reasonably cheap to retrofit, it is best to be wired from the manufacturer for the big 2000 or higher inverter-chargers since they use two circuit breaker panels.
I am not particular that we have a DP. However, my personal test-drive experience in the motorhomes has been that the gas MH we drove felt like driving a boat they had so much bob and weave compared to the diesel. They also seems to get knocked to the side more when passed by trucks. I found this really unnerving since these were my first experiences driving vehicles of this size.
The DP we drove, a 38' Sportscoach, seemed tight to the road even when passed by semi's. I'd never driven a DP before and it handled like a dream. There is one of these coming in with a dealer we really like working with that we can get for the price of comparable Gas MH’s.
I wanted to stay in the 110K or below range which could get me into some nice gas motorhomes but now I'm thinking the Sportscoach though more basic on amenities might be the way to go for drivability. While Coachmen is not our choice compared to Tiffin or Newmar, the better interior quality won't make much difference if it sits in storage because I'm not comfortable driving it down the road. My concern remains that we may pay later in resale value or that because it is ‘entry level’ we are giving up items that we might not realize we are missing. On the other hand, since we are new to Rving I’m also concerned about buying used and walking into more problems than we are prepared to understand or fix. We live in a small town with the nearest MH dealers 2 hours away in St. Louis. We are hearing that finding a highly reputable dealer is equal in importance to the quality of the unit itself. Howard RV in St. Louis has been awesome to work with so far and seems to fit the bill. (In fact, we are looking at the unit identical to the one Albert Pujols just bought for Jose Oquendo so his wife and family could travel to games in it.)
The dealer had a unit on order that has more options than we intended but we can get for not significantly more than ordering another with less options. Although there seem to be a lot of these new late model Sportscoaches on the market, I’m not seeing much on any forums about quality or reliability on anything newer than 2004. Our proposed unit can be seen at http://www.coachmenrv.com/literature/Sportscoach/crosscountry07.pdf It is 382DS floorplan with Quicksilver partial paint, with the interior exactly as the brochure and all the options listed except wood floors. Howard and Linda seem to have provided a pretty open environment here with lots of experienced RVers offering opinions, so I’d be very grateful for any candid opinions on our proposed purchase here. Do you see any pros or cons for first-timers with this unit, have any background on Coachmen’s recent reputation for manufacture or know anything about Howard RV as dealer?
Thanks in advance for any insights you might be able to provide.
C
Second I am very skeptical that they can't get you a coach with less options for less than the one they already ordered. They want your money sooner, they want you to buy the one they already ordered.
Go to another dealer and see what deal they can give you before you decide that this dealer is the one. If they can make you comfortable enough to not comparison shop they win. Yes that is cynical, but RV sales is cutthroat.
Hi Bill,
Thanks so much for the quick response.
Looking back I was misleading in the way I worded my post. We did not even drive the DP at the dealer we are looking to buy from.
However, your points are very well taken since we’ve learned by experience about working with RV dealers this past year. Because we live 2 hours from the nearest MH dealers our shopping has taken a lot of our time this past year. We’ve had to take weekend trips for RV shopping and have test-driven MH’s now in Indiana, Ohio, Iowa, Missouri and Illinois visiting somewhere upwards of 24 different dealers. It is a very cutthroat business and some of these guys don’t exactly give you a warm and fuzzy.
Actually as it turns out, we first saw and drove a Sportscoach in Iowa but we had absolutely no interest in working with the dealer where we drove the unit. We had gone there to look at a unit he had absolutely no interest in talking to us about and he was actually part of the reason we started using our spreadsheet-and-laptop routine. He was not a regular Coachmen dealer having done a one-time purchase of units from a dealer in bankruptcy. He was way too good at avoiding questions and when I had a problem pulling out a cabinet extension he called in a service tech who said that it wasn’t suppose to extend (We later figured it out ourselves).
After multiple similar instances, we’ve even developed a routine that now makes them stick to our agenda. (After 30 years as a systems analyst, it seems I can’t help myself but develop a procedure for everything I do more than once!!) Here’s how it goes:
As an example, we hit 4 dealers and 11 units last week in STL, with about 90 pictures to download on the drive back.
Last weekend, our 4 dealer tour in STL did not turn up anything we were ready to buy. Howards RV had a Sportscoach on the lot but I really did not like the paint. Eric, the saleman, we’d been talking with there, was not at all put-off by my very methodical review of items and actually seemed intrigued and liked the idea of how we were comparing using spreadsheets and pictures.. He did not push us to look at anything that wasn’t on our list.
When we got home and I began to realize I was now comparing everything to the Sportscoach I’d driven at the dealer I didn’t like, the solution seemed obvious. Find a Sportscoach or similar DP in that price range from a different dealer. I came across RVDirect who sells Coachmen and was able to get a quote for exactly the unit with options I thought we needed.
I printed off and showed my husband. In the meantime, he confirmed that Howard’s was the nearest Coachmen Sportscoach dealer to us and decided to call Eric back to talk about what I put together on RVDirect. It turned out to be amazingly similar to the unit Howards already had on their order book right down to the paint and interior colors. It had some niceties such as an inverter, an icemaker, and a bedroom TV, that I had been willing to leave off when I built up what I felt we ‘needed’. The price was also very close. I’m sure we could order exactly my assembled unit from Howards but considering that this one is already on order and we can simply look at it and walk away if we change our mind when it shows up on their lot, seems worth a couple thousand extra compared to ordering a new one site unseen from an online dealer.
My concern is primarily trying to get a better feel for the Sportscoach as a place to start into Rving and if there are items that this entry level MH is missing in options or quality that we will regret not having realized now as rookies. We have a few weeks before its delivered to Howard’s so I’m trying to pull info from anywhere I can so we head back down to St. Louis with our eyes open.
CIf you are seriously considering a Sportscoach in your future let me suggest that before you lay out your money, invest in a fact finding trip to the factory. I believe Sportscoach, which is a Coachman product is manufactured in or near Elkhart, IN. I truly believe it would be time well spent. Also located in Elkhart is the Damon Factory and the Overland factory. If you have time on the trip drive south to Waukarusa, IN and tour the Monaco factory, Holiday Rambler is also built there. Just about 12 miles south of Waukarusa is Nappinee IN, where the Newmar and Gulfstream factories are located. About 100 miles further south, just south of Goshen is The American Coach factory (A Fleetwood company) in Decatur, IN.
Touring these factories is an eye opening experience that is priceless when you are comparing motorhomes whether gas or diesel. All of these tours are free or at least they were when I took them. It will give you a prospective that can not be obtained any other way. When you are spending that much money you need to know everything you can about your pruchase. Your dealer can not support you any better than the manufacturing company is willing to support them.
I wish you well and happiness with what every you chose.
I really do not know that much about Coachman. They have been up and down over the past fifteen years or so and a few years ago were known for cheap rigs, but not bad rigs. Make sure they do support you as a full-timer and don't void your warranty if you are one. Lately the Sportscoach's have looked interesting and they have the edge on wild paint schemes.
I do know they will fix things under warranty, especially if you do go to the factory. They will also help you with advise and such when out of warranty. I was just talking to a friend with an older motorhome, which Coachman now owns the manufacturer. Coachman has been very helpful about helping him with changes and fixes on the phone.
What kind of inverter? If it is a big 2000 watt inverter-charger you will learn to love it. If it is a small 400-600 watt to run the TV it probably doesn't matter. The big inverter-chargers charge your batteries quite well and let you do things like reheat lunch using the microwave while on the road without turning on the generator.
We ordered both motorhomes we have owned and have been happy with doing so. But I can see the idea of buying one you can touch.
The inverter in the sportscoach is only 1200 watt. I believe that will be enough to run the coffee maker and the microwave but probably not both at the same time.
I realize that we are the only ones to be able to determine if this coach is the right coach for us. However, we believe in listening to the voices of experience and value your responses. Thanks Ken F