That said, there are people that choose to live in RVs instead of conventional housing that do have debt. That just makes it harder on them. But the same would be true of fixed dwellings. People with debt have a harder path in life. And there is no reason to have debt, unless you had health issues that required it. Again, this is MY opinion, and others will strongly disagree.
I'm not sure why you think life is harder for people that have debt. I don't know of anybody that doesn't have some kind of debt. I don't know anybody that paid cash for their homes, cars or college tuition for their kids to name a few things. And that includes friends that could afford to pay cash, but have better uses for their money than to tie it all up in a house. I've bought three homes, too many cars and paid for my children's tuition because I was able to secure loans. Thanks to a bank that was willing to take a chance on me to the tune of $100k for equipment I also started a small business and employed six people for 35 years. I would love to be debt free, but if I waited until I could pay cash for everything I ever wanted I would still be saving to buy my first house and I certainly wouldn't have any kids or business. Just my opinion.
Barbaraok said
08:13 AM Jan 29, 2014
If you have a lot of money in IRAs/401Ks/403Bs it may be prudent to incur debt to purchase your RV and let the money in your accounts continue to earn (tax free) rather than incurring a huge tax liability to pull out a large amount of cash to pay for the RV. With the exception of the year the market tanked, we have earned FAR, FAR more on our sheltered accounts than we paid out in interest.
Barb
bjoyce said
09:25 AM Jan 29, 2014
I think there is a huge difference between taking on debt instead of taking the money out of savings or retirement accounts, and having debt because you have little to no savings and retirement money. There are many more in the second category than the first in North America. Sad, but true. Jack is addressing those who don't have the savings but do have the debt.
We have the savings and retirement accounts and I did not take offense at what Jack said, since I knew he was not talking to me.
Lucky Mike said
10:17 AM Jan 29, 2014
We could argue or debate all day long about S&B or fulltiming.......
bottom line there is no difference......cost of living will always increase.....and your cost to live will always be your budget.
whether you live out here on the road on a 4 figure income or a 9+ figure income you will make it work....
if someone out here tells you different they have never hit true hard times....
if you have to come out here in debt I'm sure you planned for it just as if you had a house payment or rent payment.
there is so many levels of comfort out here......from asphalt Camping (Walmart) to the finest resorts....and no doubt you will fall somewhere inbetween.
if all you can afford is a pop -up you will make it , just do yourself a favor and try to get your info from someone in the same position as you........
TheNewhalls said
01:25 PM Jan 29, 2014
Lucky Mike wrote:
just do yourself a favor and try to get your info from someone in the same position as you........
Sounds like smart advice.
When we sell the house and hit the road we should be debt free. If not then we'll adjust our budget just like we did for many years before retirement and continue with our plan.
Jack Mayer said
02:52 PM Jan 29, 2014
bjoyce wrote:
I think there is a huge difference between taking on debt instead of taking the money out of savings or retirement accounts, and having debt because you have little to no savings and retirement money. There are many more in the second category than the first in North America. Sad, but true. Jack is addressing those who don't have the savings but do have the debt. We have the savings and retirement accounts and I did not take offense at what Jack said, since I knew he was not talking to me.
Bill is correct. I was not as clear as I should have been.
I don't mean to offend anyone - but I really don't care if you are Incurring a lot of debt with little or no savings puts you in a bad position. As Barb said, there are reasons to carry a payment for some things, and we have done so ourselves - generally for a short time in our case, because we are more comfortable living debt free. I would never buy anything I could not afford to pay for in full - except perhaps a house. And then I would want one that was far below my means...because you never know when things will change.
Everyone is different and others will handle things differently. But I contend that those who chalk up a lot of NET debt put themselves in a position to fail. Badly. But that is just my opinion.
The livingstingy guy's blog is full of malarkey, blather, baloney, hooey, rubbish, & drivel...LOL
I have lost $120,000 on my S&B so don't tell me a home is now or ever will be an appreciating asset. We have always dumped the bulk of our money into our home and we in the end we lost at least 1/3 of our investment. When you factor in the property tax, mortgage interest, private mortgage insurance, new HVAC, plumbing repairs, new roofs, water, sewer, electricity, storm damage, insurance, painting, yard maintenance, bad neighbors, carpet, cleaning gutters, hours of my life wasted on menial task around the house, etc.
Owning a home is not what it used to be!
My travel trailer has been used a lot; we have camped from the east coast to northern AZ and never had any serious issues or expenses. Our travel trailer is what I would consider an entry level unit; we purchased it to make quick weekend getaways and didn't want to sink a ton of dough into a trailer we would use occasionally. As it turns out we have used it a lot more than we intended to, we have camped for weeks at a time (4 kids, two adults, & 3 dogs) and I lived in it for 6 months while we were moving. It has been in the snow, torrential rain on the east coast (Myrtle Beach), all over SC, NC, NM, & AZ and never a minute's trouble. I have made a few modifications/upgrades (Max Air Vents, Digital Thermostat, etc.) but never had any serious/expensive issues. In 12 years I have replaced one regulator, re-packed the wheel bearings twice, replaced tires once (first set lasted 10 years), this past summer I re-coated the entire roof, replaced the washers/seals in the kitchen faucet, and that's about it. I bet I haven't spent more than $1,000 in maintenance on the TT, now the laundry list of S&B over the past 12 years would be a lot higher.
Anyone that tells you living in an RV full time is just as or more expensive than a home isn't doing it right.
Home Insurance: $942.00 per year
RV Insurance (replacement cost w/contents) $110.00 per year
Home Electric: $135.00 avg. per month
RV Electric: Usually included with lot rent or we use the generator.
Home Natural Gas: $100.00 avg. per month
RV Propane: in 12 years of ownership we have filled the tanks two times; we use a ceramic heater to heat the entire trailer.
Water/Sewer Bill: $45.00 per month avg.
RV Water/Sewer: We either bring water it or it's included in the lot rent. We have never paid a sewer dump fee...yet.
Home New Roof: $14,000 (lowest estimate)
RV Complete roof re-coating: $350.00 did the work myself and took two afternoons.
Home Re-painting: $8000.00 (lowest estimate to have it done) $1500.00 to do it myself
RV Re-painting: N/A its aluminum and still looks great. We just wash and wax.
Home Property Tax: AZ $1250.00 per year
RV Property Tax: AZ $55.00 per year
Home: Grass to mow, gutters to clean, irrigation to maintain, lot of windows to clean, 2300 sq.ft. of carpet to clean, dusting, weeding, leaves to rake, trees to prune, etc.
RV: no yard to maintain and very little sq. footage to clean and maintain. Don't like the neighbors or the view...move!
We also tend to spend less on food when we are in the RV because there's less storage & room in the refrigerator. Less dishes to wash because we use paper plates. More time spent doing what we want to do instead of what we have to do. Owning S&B is much more expensive and time consuming.
Just my opinion!!!
Thanks for a great post. I couldn't agree more. My experience with home ownership paralleled your own. It was an alligator that ultimately cost much more in money and time than an equivalent rental, certainly not an appreciable asset when all the expenses are taken into consideration. Even if your home does appreciate you have to subtract the additional homeowner expenses from the appreciation to get your net value. Now maybe the pride of home ownership outweighs the additional costs, such as: property taxes, homeowner's insurance, flood insurance, home and yard maintenance, home repairs, interest and loan initiation fees, higher utility bills, etc. In my case, all these things together amounted to about 10% of the home's value each year. It would be difficult for any hoped appreciation (maybe depreciation - look at what happened to property values after the housing bubble burst) even if things did work out perfectly to exceed that 10% guaranteed hole your home ownership digs for you each year.
Plus there are hidden costs of being tied down to a piece of property. For instance, I had to turn down a job paying about 50% more than I was making, because I would have had to move to another city, and maintain 2 residences, as my home was unsaleable (for anywhere near what I owed on it after paying on it for years - even though I only initially borrowed only 80% of the home's value) due to the housing collapse. If i was living in an RV I could have accepted the higher paying job without it costing me anything other than the fuel to get there. I was a Hurricane Katrina victim too. I was lucky, with only limited home damage, not complete destruction of their home and personal possessions, as half of my neighbors. If my home had wheels I could have moved to another area avoiding not only the immediate destruction, but the massive community rebuilding efforts, going over 6 weeks, working dawn to dark, 7 days/wk without even the basic amenities like running water, electricity, gas, phones, etc. Just think if all gulf coast homes had wheels and could have avoided the devastation, only to come back and resumed life as normal after the storm passed through and utilities restored, for a simple clean-up rather than the arduous test of survival - that many failed. I still have scars half way up a weakened leg as a result of the fungus that flourished during the storms aftermath. All this could have been avoided, for me and many others had we been living in an RV at the time.
Chip
Zeek said
09:33 PM Jan 29, 2014
Thanks for all the input, that is what makes for WISE decisions.
I agree 100% with what most of you have said in different ways. When we jump, I plan it to be zero owed in the form of loans or whatever. Our expenses will be the day to day/year to year normal things which we have income flow for. When we sell the house that will clear whatever we are traveling in plus some. We have the retirement stuff we can use on the back end if we go S&B again at some point.
All the things you have all said is THE best information!!
Everybody is different and I looked at some of your profiles so I knew where you were coming from. The best thing I see so far is that not matter what your circumstance is, plan and go in eyes open and this will be something others wish they could or should have done. I feel I'm in fortunate group . . . or at least one I choose to be a part of ;)
-- Edited by Zeek on Wednesday 29th of January 2014 09:34:24 PM
The Hensons said
07:50 AM Feb 3, 2014
When we hit the road (at age 39) at the peak of my business success, my Dad approached me with concern and said, "Kyle, I strongly urge you to reconsider this decision. You have an opportunity to make some real money. And your daughter needs roots."
My response: "We'd rather make memories than money; and my daughter's roots will be firmly planted in the love she receives from her family and friends."
I certainly understand why my Dad chose the path he did given his situation/options; and 2 years later I think he is starting to understand why we chose this path.
Of course our rig is a depreciating asset...so, what? For us it was never a financial investment but rather an investment in life!
-- Edited by The Hensons on Monday 3rd of February 2014 07:51:03 AM
Airplane Guy said
09:19 PM Feb 4, 2014
My Dad passed away 2 years ago after a very long painful battle with several different kinds of cancer. I was with him for a week three weeks before he died. We had several long talks about his life and he shared some things he never had before. I asked him if he had any regrets.....after some thought he said he only had one.....80 years old and only one regret. He said he always wanted to buy a motor home and travel to see our beautiful country......the one he fought for. He wanted to see the Grand Canyon. He never did it, "the MH will depreciate"......"what if you get sick"...and so on....After he passed I flew to the Grand Canyon and spread his ashes.....he now has a great view. We both have the same wanderlust and I too have always wanted to travel in an RV. We grew up camping and my most fond memories are from camping. I have been researching this lifestyle ever since he passed......I'm leaving Friday to purchase a used motor home and will begin my full timing experience on the 25th. This forum and the many wonderful folks who have become my extended family have helped me by extending their insight and experience and for that I'm very blessed. Take the time to think, decide, then do or don't....there is no try.
DebbieM said
09:56 PM Feb 4, 2014
How awesome that you're following your dream Airplane guy. I'll bet your Dad is enjoying his wonderful view.
Airplane Guy said
08:39 PM Feb 10, 2014
I hope to pick up the Motorhome this weekend!
Zeek said
10:26 PM Feb 11, 2014
Boy this really started some conversation which has been very insightful.
His response was interesting and has provided more information. I guess I left some pertinent information out in that we have other retirement accounts that will have about $350K sitting unused, so we have exit $$ if needed.
I agree 100%, there is no way I'd feel comfortable without an exit fund in case if illness or whatever and/or a time when you will no longer be physically capable of RVing.
I still don't agree with his used rig and hauler $$ estimates . . . they are way low based on what I have seen so far, even for a decent used in the large FT TH category I'm looking at. Yea, you can get somebody's used weekender-four wheeler-toy hauler that has a bed in the kitchen, but that is not what we are into. More of a Voltage 3970 kinda floor plan. By the time I cash out in four years there will be used available.
I do love everyone's opinions
-- Edited by Zeek on Wednesday 12th of February 2014 07:23:57 AM
azrving said
10:29 AM Feb 12, 2014
In 2009 he posted a thread RVing on a budget and he bashed motor homes, slides, etc. He then went on to say he had purchased two trailers and (that he kept for several years) he didn't experience the huge depreciation that he warns all of us about on either unit.
This is a snip-it of his posting:
"We started RVing with an 18 foot travel trailer and a small Toyota pickup. It was a nice trailer, but even at that small size, too large for the pickup. a midsize or small fullsize pickup (F150) would have been a better choice. It was a nice trailer, we kept it for four years and sold it for $4000 - exactly what we paid for it. As I said, a well-cared for trailer doesn't depreciate much.
We sold that and bought a 27 foot 5th wheel, which we towed with an F-150 with a towing package. It towed like a dream and we went coast-to-coast in it and to Florida several times. We kept it four years and sold it for $6500, or $500 less than we paid for it. Trailers hold their value."
His blog seems a little self righteous and hypocritical.....do as I say not as I do kinda guy.
If the depreciation scares you, buy a quality used unit and have it thoroughly checked out. We always buy used and have never been burned because we do our homework/research. Let the guy that has to have a new unit pay most of the depreciation and then you swoop in and take it off his or her hands for a fraction of what it cost new. Problem solved!
Great example is our present Travel Trailer....2001 Sunnybrook TT: Purchased (used) in 2002 from an older couple that used it like 4 times, he loved camping and his wife hated it. He paid over $14,000 for the trailer and then he added a few options like a weight distribution & anti sway bar set-up, he upgraded to Delta Faucets in the kitchen, etc. When his wife said enough with the camping he sold us the trailer for $9000.00 and he included all upgrades and towing equipment in the asking price too. His wife even left most of the kitchen supplies... we have thoroughly enjoyed that Crock Pot she left. We have been using the camper for 12 years and have never (knock on wood) had any serious issues with the camper and it has been used a lot. We have spent about $1,100 on maintenance and upgrades since we purchased it and most of that was the new tires we purchased last year.
When we get ready to full-time, we will be in the market for a used Class C or quality 5th wheel. We already have the diesel truck (for the 5th wheel) and we have a 2005 Honda Civic 5 speed manual (Toad) if we decide to go with a class C.
Don't let depreciation or Mr. Robert Platt Bell scare you away from this lifestyle
-- Edited by azrving on Wednesday 12th of February 2014 10:47:51 AM
TRAILERKING said
10:45 AM Feb 12, 2014
Yeah RV's are definitely not an investment. I have the original sales slip for my '99 American Dream., $238,000.00 before any taxes. I got it for $50,000.00 and by the time got it back home and payed all the applicable taxes here, I have around $60,000.00 in it. Then I had to do the tranny.
It's all up to the "End User" about the cost of having fun. They'll COST you money.......Never going to make money.
Zeek said
10:51 AM Feb 12, 2014
azrving wrote:
In 2009 he posted a thread RVing on a budget and he bashed motor homes, slides, etc. He then went on to say he had purchased two trailers and (that he kept for several years) he didn't experience the huge depreciation that he warns all of us about on either unit.
This is a snip-it of his posting:
"We started RVing with an 18 foot travel trailer and a small Toyota pickup. It was a nice trailer, but even at that small size, too large for the pickup. a midsize or small fullsize pickup (F150) would have been a better choice. It was a nice trailer, we kept it for four years and sold it for $4000 - exactly what we paid for it. As I said, a well-cared for trailer doesn't depreciate much.
We sold that and bought a 27 foot 5th wheel, which we towed with an F-150 with a towing package. It towed like a dream and we went coast-to-coast in it and to Florida several times. We kept it four years and sold it for $6500, or $500 less than we paid for it. Trailers hold their value."
His blog seems a little self righteous and hypocritical.....do as I say not as I do kinda guy.
If the depreciation scares you, buy a quality used unit and have it thoroughly checked out. We always buy used and have never been burned because we do our homework/research. Let the guy that has to have a new unit pay most of the depreciation and then you swoop in and take it off his or her hands for a fraction of what it cost new. Problem solved!
Great example is our present Travel Trailer....2001 Sunnybrook TT: Purchased (used) in 2002 from an older couple that used it like 4 times, he loved camping and his wife hated it. He paid over $14,000 for the trailer and then he added a few options like a weight distribution & anti sway bar set-up, he upgraded to Delta Faucets in the kitchen, etc. When his wife said enough with the camping he sold us the trailer for $9000.00 and he included all upgrades and towing equipment in the asking price too. His wife even left most of the kitchen supplies... we have thoroughly enjoyed that Crock Pot she left. We have been using the camper for 12 years and have never (knock on wood) had any serious issues with the camper and it has been used a lot. We have spent about $1,100 on maintenance and upgrades since we purchased it and most of that was the new tires we purchased last year.
When we get ready to full-time, we will be in the market for a used Class C or quality 5th wheel. We already have the diesel truck (for the 5th wheel) and we have a 2005 Honda Civic 5 speed manual (Toad) if we decide to go with a class C.
Don't let depreciation or Mr. Robert Platt Bell scare you away from this lifestyle
-- Edited by azrving on Wednesday 12th of February 2014 10:31:46 AM
Yea, I see that his perspective is a little negative. Some of his points are valid to an extent, but it is apparent he is opposed to full-time RVing from his money perspective. My perspective is a little different as long as it's planned for properly. Heck, even if it isn't, ending up with a big house and a lot of money isn't what it's all about. If I wanted that, I would maintain the status quo and keep working full time until I'm old, divorced again or dying of some disease I didn't plan to get before I had time to enjoy anything . . .
Barbaraok said
11:33 AM Feb 12, 2014
Different people have different ideas of what makes a good retirement. And remember, this person is still working, trying to make that extra dollar so that someday he can retire in the style he thinks is acceptable. Too often that 'someday' never comes - these are the type of people who worship the dollar, and collapse and die before reaching their 'minimum'. So someone else gets to enjoy the money. We've found that most fulltimers we meet understand that you need a minimum amount in order to be comfortable, but realize that the 'priceless' moments are the memories they want to build for that day when the body is no longer able to function.
Barb
Zeek said
08:02 AM Feb 13, 2014
Thanks to whoever fixed the link . . . I just read how to do it correctly
sdman said
04:46 PM Feb 13, 2014
Not everything in life makes strict financial sense. There are many times in life that memories and fun matter more than the costs. A vacation for a week at $2-3 k for you and your wife after working and taking care of kids all year or saving and paying off your car a few months early. I don't know, but if we spent our lives making only strict financial decisions and then in the end you die debit free, lots of money in the bank to leave to your kids but you didn't participate in the spoils of live, what is it really worth then? Everything in moderation.
Terry and Jo said
07:20 PM Feb 13, 2014
Zeek wrote:
Thanks to whoever fixed the link . . . I just read how to do it correctly
The only ones that can fix the links are the moderators (Genecop and I) and Howard and Linda. We are the only ones with the administrative rights to go into anyone's comments. I used to always make a note like, "Edit by moderator: Activated link" and my name. Now, I'm getting lazy and just click the "Hide "Edited By" button below the message field so that the "Edited by...." message doesn't show up.
And, you are welcome. I usually try to watch for links and activate them.
Terry
JayKim-no regrets said
01:01 PM Mar 4, 2014
Hey all, I know I haven't posted in a while, but I do keep up on the forum.... This subject is one that we struggle with and have since we moved into the RV in Aug 2012. Sometimes we 'think' we have a handle on it all and we start making plans to move out of our static full time spot here on Charleston AFB famcamp....we are still here!
We still have debts, we are paying them off bit by bit as hubby continues his full time job here on base. Unfortunately, we have had a 'few' issues with the RV in the last 4 months, new fridge/freezer, new convection/microwave. (both packed up in same week!) Then the engine just refused to start! Luckily we have a very handy fellow camper here and he has been helping us, we have new house batteries, new fuel filters, just this week we put in a new fuel pump (all deisel)....not cheap parts, but we are hoping to hear the purr of the engine tonight (fingers crossed)
We also got notice last week, that we have to leave our very comfortable full time spot here on the 13th March for at least 24 hours, we can come back but will most likely have to go in a temp spot ($100 a month more) until we can get into a free full time spot again, there are no other comparable parks in this area, so we will have to do that, it's sad to say but it's a change that was made by a temp' camp host that is leaving next month....long story, but not a nice guy!
Sounds like I am complaining here huh? Not at all!! We love our RV, we love the fact that we don't have the S&B that sucked us dry (financially) for the first 25 yrs of our marriage, we are going through a rough patch right now, but our minds are still set on our plan to get out on the road and see this great Country (eventually...) For us it has always been feast or famine, this famine is just a little longer/harder than usual.
Next week, we will take 3 days out and drive to Myrtle beach, we are sooo looking forward to going on our first trip in over 12 months, we need to give the engine a good run and get out of here for a bit. If it were just my decision, we would get on the road tomorrow and just work as camp hosts or volunteering on State Parks while we live our dream, hubby has his military pension, but he is more 'sensible' than I, so we will pay off as much as we can first.
Nobody (IMHO) can say how much you need to cover a full time RV lifestyle, it all depends on what you are willing to live without, if anything. How often you want to move, if you have any travel restrictions etc. Obviously if you have no debt and still have money coming in every month, it's easier, not sure I would say it's always bettter though? That to me, sounds more like a full time vacation, rather than an RV lifestyle...just my opinion...
Huggs Kim x
Lucky Mike said
01:28 PM Mar 4, 2014
Hang in there Kim!!!......................your getting there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JayKim-no regrets said
01:54 PM Mar 4, 2014
Thank you Mike
huggs Kim x
injunear said
11:11 PM Mar 4, 2014
Kim, Isn't the Navy campground still in Moncks Corner not too far off Hywy 52. All the branched of service used to camp there. When I was stationed in Charleston we camped there every time I was in port. Some times we would rent one of the campers by the lake.
Wayne
JayKim-no regrets said
01:08 PM Mar 5, 2014
Thanks Wayne,
Yes, it's still there, to be honest, it has really gone downhill, the pads are really uneven, there are hardly any trees, facilities not kept up at all. It's about the same price per month as here on the AFB, maybe $40 a month less, but they also have a waiting list.
When we first moved onto this famcamo in 08/12, they said we could stay 2 years, (it still says that on the website) The new host that is here until next month has been a real PITA, all the long term campers here have had issues with him, for some reason he has made it his goal to get us all out of our sites after just one year, he went above the managers head and complained about the waiting list for the sites. There are 6 of us that were given notice to be out by the 15th of March! We can come back after 24 hours and go in the temp' sites, we will then be put on the wait list for long term, it's $100 extra per month in those. If hubby didn't work here on base still, we would just be gone, but he does so we have to go by the 'new' rules for now.
Anyone know the lottery #s for next week?
huggs Kim x
injunear said
11:43 AM Mar 6, 2014
Kim,
That is sad about the Famcamp in Moncks Corner. It was always a beautiful campground full of trees. There was campers and mobile homes for rent, a beach, and boat rentals. The campground was sort of divided in two, Navy in one area and AF, Army in another.
Maybe the new host has a friend on the waiting list. Sorry you have to move.
Wayne
PaulandMB said
01:57 PM Mar 25, 2014
I read the blog and thought about our rough plan.
1 House sale should net us enough to purchase a truck and solid fiver with 150 left over to purchase the exit house.
2 Our retirement income stream should be well within the "moderate budget" outlined in the examples on Howard's blog (I think, we have read a lot of blogs and articles) with a pretty substantial cushion. We have saved 15% of our salaries for retirement for a number of years, up from 10% in our thirties and should not have to touch the principle. We currently spend substantially more than the moderate budget including taxes, mortgages, and house upkeep. So we will be living on less.
3 Social Security will become available to supplement our income 2.5 years after our target date for retirement. If we take Social Security immediately our incomes go up substantially. If we delay Social Security we get 8% more income a year for each year we wait (as Iunderstand it).
Bottom line on my analysis: We can make this work financially. We may have a couple years where we live on less than we are used to but if it becomes a hardship, workamping is a possibilty. We also have a marked bias towards state parks, boondocking, and simple entertainment like biking, hiking and kayaking. So far I am not too scared...
tigercx1 said
02:52 PM Mar 25, 2014
From what I have seen, some people sell their house and buy a big rig and try full timing and don't like it or health issues force a change of plans. Then they have to sell their rig and take a big hit on it.
I think a better approach would be to buy good used unit, give it a try and can always trade up. I see a lot of used but like new travel trailers in the $20,000 - $30,000 range. Could buy a decent used truck to pull it in the 30K range and have ballpark $60,000 invested and possibly still keep home while giving full timing a try.
If things don't work out, you would not take near the hit and have still have home base. If things do work out and you know full timing is for you, then the option of selling house and trading up to another rig is an option.
This is the plan I am looking to implement when I retire in 10 years. Everyone's situation is different though and there are no right or wrong answers.
Mark
-- Edited by tigercx1 on Tuesday 25th of March 2014 03:11:43 PM
TRAILERKING said
03:40 PM Mar 25, 2014
I like your idea Mark, about keeping the house, and giving the RV'ing/full-timing a try.
Especially if your house is paid for. Get a good renter in it and now you have some income happening. If things don't work out with RV'ing you can go back to your house that you own.
tigercx1 said
05:10 PM Mar 25, 2014
TRAILERKING wrote:
I like your idea Mark, about keeping the house, and giving the RV'ing/full-timing a try. Especially if your house is paid for. Get a good renter in it and now you have some income happening. If things don't work out with RV'ing you can go back to your house that you own.
The house will be paid for well before we retire. The idea of renting the house while we try full timing sounds good on paper with the income coming in aspect but unless a family member rents it, we probably will not rent it and just have family members check on the house and do lawn mowing and snow removal. I think we would be worried with a stranger renting the house and possibly destroying it.
Most likely we would go south for the winter the first year and go from there. Regardless whether we full time year round or not, we do enjoy short camping trips so truck and camper purchase would be a long term deal. We are somewhat minimalist so a monster rig is not necessary.
Right now we have a small class C which is wonderful for weekend and 2 week trips but don't think it would work for months at a time. The good thing is we bought it for $15,000 in like new condition albeit older but very low mileage so don't have a lot of money tied up in it. We plan on keeping it until retirement and then make some decisions on which rig to buy.
Planning is kind of fun :)
Mark
tigercx1 said
05:20 PM Mar 25, 2014
Dog Folks wrote:
Overall, being debt free is a major advantage when entering this lifestyle. Best advice I ever took.
I totally agree that being debt free before full timing is a major advantage. I will not retire if I have any debt. Everyone's circumstances are different though.
Mark
Barbaraok said
10:54 PM Mar 25, 2014
Mark,
We've known several people that were going to do this and that as soon as they had enough money, all debts paid, the house paid, and on and on and on. Unfortunately life ran out before all of their well made plans came to fruition. Don't wait to long - time has a way of running out on us all.
Barb
azrving said
01:04 AM Mar 26, 2014
Barbaraok wrote:
Mark,
We've known several people that were going to do this and that as soon as they had enough money, all debts paid, the house paid, and on and on and on. Unfortunately life ran out before all of their well made plans came to fruition. Don't wait to long - time has a way of running out on us all.
Barb
Amen! I'm afraid that's going to happen to us, our Realtor was supposed to call us and get the ball rolling on March 1st but here we are playing the waiting game again....may need a different Realtor. I hope to make it Full Time before I assume room temperature.
Alie and Jims Carrilite said
06:14 AM Mar 26, 2014
I know I've said it in other posts as well but here goes... My wife was a Hospice nurse and area nurse manager for 10 years. As a hospice volunteer visiting families and patients with her, I never heard once that so and so had seen everything or had done everything they wanted. What we heard was all the missed opportunities that were never taken advantage of, all the places folks dreamed of but never got to see, from local wandering to global trips. In 10 years and 100's of patients and families I never once heard "I wish I had worked longer" it was always "I wish I had spent more time with family and friends making memories with others". Selling most of your worldly possessions and moving into a true mobile home may not make the most financial sense, but if you want to try it JUST DO IT. You won't get out of this life alive.
-- Edited by Alie and Jims Carrilite on Wednesday 26th of March 2014 06:15:41 AM
Jo and Ben said
07:52 AM Mar 26, 2014
I have to agree with both Barb and Jim above. My father worked like a dog for years, saving and preparing for retirement. Four years after he retired he died of cancer at age 64. Additionally, I am a nurse too and worked in hospice for many years. I have always said that doing hospice work kept me grounded in what is important in life :)
PIEERE said
01:31 PM Mar 26, 2014
Alie and Jims Carrilite wrote:
I know I've said it in other posts as well but here goes... My wife was a Hospice nurse and area nurse manager for 10 years. As a hospice volunteer visiting families and patients with her, I never heard once that so and so had seen everything or had done everything they wanted. What we heard was all the missed opportunities that were never taken advantage of, all the places folks dreamed of but never got to see, from local wandering to global trips. In 10 years and 100's of patients and families I never once heard "I wish I had worked longer" it was always "I wish I had spent more time with family and friends making memories with others". Selling most of your worldly possessions and moving into a true mobile home may not make the most financial sense, but if you want to try it JUST DO IT. You won't get out of this life alive.
-- Edited by Alie and Jims Carrilite on Wednesday 26th of March 2014 06:15:41 AM
My feelings exact;y!!! When I injured my back in 1985 I was 34 and was unable to work; lost house; cars; marriage except for the clothes I owned by 1988. Returned to the workforce in 1993 and in 1999 acquired my own motorhome and by 2000 at the age of 49 started work camping and traveling; sightseeing; meeting fellow working RVers and made friends. In July 2012 had to quit due to a heart attack. I am sure pleased that I did those things although it hadn't made me rich. I do wished I could have work camped longer
The beginning of March I got the hitch itch fever; I couln't place it at first thought it was Spring Fever!!!! Read my Signature line!!!
tigercx1 said
02:27 PM Mar 26, 2014
Great posts everyone. Makes me want to rethink my plans and perhaps go Full time in 5 years. I am 52 now and am ready to do it now. The problem is my wife will not go for it.
Mark
BiggarView said
03:06 PM Mar 26, 2014
Mark, I can totally relate. Since Cindi(DW) initially floated the idea, I was totally on board but it turned out she was still kinda on the fence. I can see her hesitation ever since she lost her job. While we have had a serious income disruption we are still able to go FT in 2019, which is 3 years ahead of what she would prefer for SSA and pension reasons. I'm the numbers guy and I've crunched them 6 ways to Sunday and every variable I can think of still shows it's possible by 2019. Each time we sit down together to review our progress she's becoming more comfortable with my projections, but not completely. Heck every time I read about workamping, frugal RV tips, inspiration from Lucky Mike or Pieere or so many others I refine what is possible and believe it or not the date that is do-able for us keeps getting closer. I have some scenarios that actually can start us FT in 2017 but confidence isn't there yet to fully commit to such an aggressive target as long as she isn't fully onboard with the 2019 plan. Small steps. More research. More small steps. Confidence changes to excitement. Excitement starts preparations. Preparations means commitment to the plan.
I am sooooo ready to jump in... she will too, in time(and in less than she thinks)
CANNONBALL!!!!!
-- Edited by biggaRView on Wednesday 26th of March 2014 04:59:33 PM
manycats said
08:36 PM Mar 26, 2014
Funny how things work out. My DH sprung the idea of full-timing on me out of the blue. Now, keep in mind that we had already full-timed for 5 or 6 years when we were in our 40s so we know it can be done with no fixed income at all, then suddenly he started getting cold feet. Now I'm the one that's all for it and he's wavering - one day yes, one day no. I have planned to keep working (and saving) this year so we'll have a small emergency fund. After that, I'm determined to get this show on the road. I'm not getting any younger and I'll be very P Od if I have another heart attack while chained to my desk..!
BiggarView said
08:49 PM Mar 26, 2014
manycats wrote:
.... I'll be very P Od if I have another heart attack while chained to my desk..!
I'm not sure why you think life is harder for people that have debt. I don't know of anybody that doesn't have some kind of debt. I don't know anybody that paid cash for their homes, cars or college tuition for their kids to name a few things. And that includes friends that could afford to pay cash, but have better uses for their money than to tie it all up in a house. I've bought three homes, too many cars and paid for my children's tuition because I was able to secure loans. Thanks to a bank that was willing to take a chance on me to the tune of $100k for equipment I also started a small business and employed six people for 35 years. I would love to be debt free, but if I waited until I could pay cash for everything I ever wanted I would still be saving to buy my first house and I certainly wouldn't have any kids or business. Just my opinion.
Barb
We have the savings and retirement accounts and I did not take offense at what Jack said, since I knew he was not talking to me.
bottom line there is no difference......cost of living will always increase.....and your cost to live will always be your budget.
whether you live out here on the road on a 4 figure income or a 9+ figure income you will make it work....
if someone out here tells you different they have never hit true hard times....
if you have to come out here in debt I'm sure you planned for it just as if you had a house payment or rent payment.
there is so many levels of comfort out here......from asphalt Camping (Walmart) to the finest resorts....and no doubt you will fall somewhere inbetween.
if all you can afford is a pop -up you will make it , just do yourself a favor and try to get your info from someone in the same position as you........
Sounds like smart advice.
When we sell the house and hit the road we should be debt free. If not then we'll adjust our budget just like we did for many years before retirement and continue with our plan.
Bill is correct. I was not as clear as I should have been.
I don't mean to offend anyone - but I really don't care if you are
Incurring a lot of debt with little or no savings puts you in a bad position. As Barb said, there are reasons to carry a payment for some things, and we have done so ourselves - generally for a short time in our case, because we are more comfortable living debt free. I would never buy anything I could not afford to pay for in full - except perhaps a house. And then I would want one that was far below my means...because you never know when things will change.
Everyone is different and others will handle things differently. But I contend that those who chalk up a lot of NET debt put themselves in a position to fail. Badly. But that is just my opinion.
Chip
Thanks for all the input, that is what makes for WISE decisions.
I agree 100% with what most of you have said in different ways. When we jump, I plan it to be zero owed in the form of loans or whatever. Our expenses will be the day to day/year to year normal things which we have income flow for. When we sell the house that will clear whatever we are traveling in plus some. We have the retirement stuff we can use on the back end if we go S&B again at some point.
All the things you have all said is THE best information!!
Everybody is different and I looked at some of your profiles so I knew where you were coming from. The best thing I see so far is that not matter what your circumstance is, plan and go in eyes open and this will be something others wish they could or should have done. I feel I'm in fortunate group . . . or at least one I choose to be a part of ;)
-- Edited by Zeek on Wednesday 29th of January 2014 09:34:24 PM
When we hit the road (at age 39) at the peak of my business success, my Dad approached me with concern and said, "Kyle, I strongly urge you to reconsider this decision. You have an opportunity to make some real money. And your daughter needs roots."
My response: "We'd rather make memories than money; and my daughter's roots will be firmly planted in the love she receives from her family and friends."
I certainly understand why my Dad chose the path he did given his situation/options; and 2 years later I think he is starting to understand why we chose this path.
Of course our rig is a depreciating asset...so, what? For us it was never a financial investment but rather an investment in life!
-- Edited by The Hensons on Monday 3rd of February 2014 07:51:03 AM
My Dad passed away 2 years ago after a very long painful battle with several different kinds of cancer. I was with him for a week three weeks before he died. We had several long talks about his life and he shared some things he never had before. I asked him if he had any regrets.....after some thought he said he only had one.....80 years old and only one regret. He said he always wanted to buy a motor home and travel to see our beautiful country......the one he fought for. He wanted to see the Grand Canyon. He never did it, "the MH will depreciate"......"what if you get sick"...and so on....After he passed I flew to the Grand Canyon and spread his ashes.....he now has a great view. We both have the same wanderlust and I too have always wanted to travel in an RV. We grew up camping and my most fond memories are from camping. I have been researching this lifestyle ever since he passed......I'm leaving Friday to purchase a used motor home and will begin my full timing experience on the 25th. This forum and the many wonderful folks who have become my extended family have helped me by extending their insight and experience and for that I'm very blessed. Take the time to think, decide, then do or don't....there is no try.
How awesome that you're following your dream Airplane guy. I'll bet your Dad is enjoying his wonderful view.
I hope to pick up the Motorhome this weekend!
Boy this really started some conversation which has been very insightful.
Interestingly, I was trolling the net for some info on rig depreciation and found the blog that started the whole thing had been updated with my quote from this forum. It's here: http://livingstingy.blogspot.com/2011/03/full-time-rving.html
His response was interesting and has provided more information. I guess I left some pertinent information out in that we have other retirement accounts that will have about $350K sitting unused, so we have exit $$ if needed.
I agree 100%, there is no way I'd feel comfortable without an exit fund in case if illness or whatever and/or a time when you will no longer be physically capable of RVing.
I still don't agree with his used rig and hauler $$ estimates . . . they are way low based on what I have seen so far, even for a decent used in the large FT TH category I'm looking at. Yea, you can get somebody's used weekender-four wheeler-toy hauler that has a bed in the kitchen, but that is not what we are into. More of a Voltage 3970 kinda floor plan. By the time I cash out in four years there will be used available.
I do love everyone's opinions
-- Edited by Zeek on Wednesday 12th of February 2014 07:23:57 AM
In 2009 he posted a thread RVing on a budget and he bashed motor homes, slides, etc. He then went on to say he had purchased two trailers and (that he kept for several years) he didn't experience the huge depreciation that he warns all of us about on either unit.
This is a snip-it of his posting:
We sold that and bought a 27 foot 5th wheel, which we towed with an F-150 with a towing package. It towed like a dream and we went coast-to-coast in it and to Florida several times. We kept it four years and sold it for $6500, or $500 less than we paid for it. Trailers hold their value."
His blog seems a little self righteous and hypocritical.....do as I say not as I do kinda guy.
If the depreciation scares you, buy a quality used unit and have it thoroughly checked out. We always buy used and have never been burned because we do our homework/research. Let the guy that has to have a new unit pay most of the depreciation and then you swoop in and take it off his or her hands for a fraction of what it cost new. Problem solved!
Great example is our present Travel Trailer....2001 Sunnybrook TT: Purchased (used) in 2002 from an older couple that used it like 4 times, he loved camping and his wife hated it. He paid over $14,000 for the trailer and then he added a few options like a weight distribution & anti sway bar set-up, he upgraded to Delta Faucets in the kitchen, etc. When his wife said enough with the camping he sold us the trailer for $9000.00 and he included all upgrades and towing equipment in the asking price too. His wife even left most of the kitchen supplies... we have thoroughly enjoyed that Crock Pot she left.
We have been using the camper for 12 years and have never (knock on wood) had any serious issues with the camper and it has been used a lot. We have spent about $1,100 on maintenance and upgrades since we purchased it and most of that was the new tires we purchased last year.
When we get ready to full-time, we will be in the market for a used Class C or quality 5th wheel. We already have the diesel truck (for the 5th wheel) and we have a 2005 Honda Civic 5 speed manual (Toad) if we decide to go with a class C.
Don't let depreciation or Mr. Robert Platt Bell scare you away from this lifestyle
-- Edited by azrving on Wednesday 12th of February 2014 10:47:51 AM
It's all up to the "End User" about the cost of having fun. They'll COST you money.......Never going to make money.
Yea, I see that his perspective is a little negative. Some of his points are valid to an extent, but it is apparent he is opposed to full-time RVing from his money perspective. My perspective is a little different as long as it's planned for properly. Heck, even if it isn't, ending up with a big house and a lot of money isn't what it's all about. If I wanted that, I would maintain the status quo and keep working full time until I'm old, divorced again or dying of some disease I didn't plan to get before I had time to enjoy anything . . .
Barb
Thanks to whoever fixed the link . . . I just read how to do it correctly
Not everything in life makes strict financial sense. There are many times in life that memories and fun matter more than the costs. A vacation for a week at $2-3 k for you and your wife after working and taking care of kids all year or saving and paying off your car a few months early. I don't know, but if we spent our lives making only strict financial decisions and then in the end you die debit free, lots of money in the bank to leave to your kids but you didn't participate in the spoils of live, what is it really worth then? Everything in moderation.
The only ones that can fix the links are the moderators (Genecop and I) and Howard and Linda. We are the only ones with the administrative rights to go into anyone's comments. I used to always make a note like, "Edit by moderator: Activated link" and my name. Now, I'm getting lazy and just click the "Hide "Edited By" button below the message field so that the "Edited by...." message doesn't show up.
And, you are welcome. I usually try to watch for links and activate them.
Terry
We still have debts, we are paying them off bit by bit as hubby continues his full time job here on base. Unfortunately, we have had a 'few' issues with the RV in the last 4 months, new fridge/freezer, new convection/microwave. (both packed up in same week!) Then the engine just refused to start! Luckily we have a very handy fellow camper here and he has been helping us, we have new house batteries, new fuel filters, just this week we put in a new fuel pump (all deisel)....not cheap parts, but we are hoping to hear the purr of the engine tonight (fingers crossed)
We also got notice last week, that we have to leave our very comfortable full time spot here on the 13th March for at least 24 hours, we can come back but will most likely have to go in a temp spot ($100 a month more) until we can get into a free full time spot again, there are no other comparable parks in this area, so we will have to do that, it's sad to say but it's a change that was made by a temp' camp host that is leaving next month....long story, but not a nice guy!
Sounds like I am complaining here huh? Not at all!! We love our RV, we love the fact that we don't have the S&B that sucked us dry (financially) for the first 25 yrs of our marriage, we are going through a rough patch right now, but our minds are still set on our plan to get out on the road and see this great Country (eventually...) For us it has always been feast or famine, this famine is just a little longer/harder than usual.
Next week, we will take 3 days out and drive to Myrtle beach, we are sooo looking forward to going on our first trip in over 12 months, we need to give the engine a good run and get out of here for a bit. If it were just my decision, we would get on the road tomorrow and just work as camp hosts or volunteering on State Parks while we live our dream, hubby has his military pension, but he is more 'sensible' than I, so we will pay off as much as we can first.
Nobody (IMHO) can say how much you need to cover a full time RV lifestyle, it all depends on what you are willing to live without, if anything. How often you want to move, if you have any travel restrictions etc. Obviously if you have no debt and still have money coming in every month, it's easier, not sure I would say it's always bettter though? That to me, sounds more like a full time vacation, rather than an RV lifestyle...just my opinion...
Huggs Kim x
Thank you Mike
huggs Kim x
Kim, Isn't the Navy campground still in Moncks Corner not too far off Hywy 52. All the branched of service used to camp there. When I was stationed in Charleston we camped there every time I was in port. Some times we would rent one of the campers by the lake.
Wayne
Thanks Wayne,
Yes, it's still there, to be honest, it has really gone downhill, the pads are really uneven, there are hardly any trees, facilities not kept up at all. It's about the same price per month as here on the AFB, maybe $40 a month less, but they also have a waiting list.
When we first moved onto this famcamo in 08/12, they said we could stay 2 years, (it still says that on the website) The new host that is here until next month has been a real PITA, all the long term campers here have had issues with him, for some reason he has made it his goal to get us all out of our sites after just one year, he went above the managers head and complained about the waiting list for the sites. There are 6 of us that were given notice to be out by the 15th of March! We can come back after 24 hours and go in the temp' sites, we will then be put on the wait list for long term, it's $100 extra per month in those. If hubby didn't work here on base still, we would just be gone, but he does so we have to go by the 'new' rules for now.
Anyone know the lottery #s for next week?
huggs Kim x
Kim,
That is sad about the Famcamp in Moncks Corner. It was always a beautiful campground full of trees. There was campers and mobile homes for rent, a beach, and boat rentals. The campground was sort of divided in two, Navy in one area and AF, Army in another.
Maybe the new host has a friend on the waiting list. Sorry you have to move.
Wayne
I read the blog and thought about our rough plan.
1 House sale should net us enough to purchase a truck and solid fiver with 150 left over to purchase the exit house.
2 Our retirement income stream should be well within the "moderate budget" outlined in the examples on Howard's blog (I think, we have read a lot of blogs and articles) with a pretty substantial cushion. We have saved 15% of our salaries for retirement for a number of years, up from 10% in our thirties and should not have to touch the principle. We currently spend substantially more than the moderate budget including taxes, mortgages, and house upkeep. So we will be living on less.
3 Social Security will become available to supplement our income 2.5 years after our target date for retirement. If we take Social Security immediately our incomes go up substantially. If we delay Social Security we get 8% more income a year for each year we wait (as Iunderstand it).
Bottom line on my analysis: We can make this work financially. We may have a couple years where we live on less than we are used to but if it becomes a hardship, workamping is a possibilty. We also have a marked bias towards state parks, boondocking, and simple entertainment like biking, hiking and kayaking. So far I am not too scared...
From what I have seen, some people sell their house and buy a big rig and try full timing and don't like it or health issues force a change of plans. Then they have to sell their rig and take a big hit on it.
I think a better approach would be to buy good used unit, give it a try and can always trade up. I see a lot of used but like new travel trailers in the $20,000 - $30,000 range. Could buy a decent used truck to pull it in the 30K range and have ballpark $60,000 invested and possibly still keep home while giving full timing a try.
If things don't work out, you would not take near the hit and have still have home base. If things do work out and you know full timing is for you, then the option of selling house and trading up to another rig is an option.
This is the plan I am looking to implement when I retire in 10 years. Everyone's situation is different though and there are no right or wrong answers.
Mark
-- Edited by tigercx1 on Tuesday 25th of March 2014 03:11:43 PM
Especially if your house is paid for. Get a good renter in it and now you have some income happening. If things don't work out with RV'ing you can go back to your house that you own.
The house will be paid for well before we retire. The idea of renting the house while we try full timing sounds good on paper with the income coming in aspect but unless a family member rents it, we probably will not rent it and just have family members check on the house and do lawn mowing and snow removal. I think we would be worried with a stranger renting the house and possibly destroying it.
Most likely we would go south for the winter the first year and go from there. Regardless whether we full time year round or not, we do enjoy short camping trips so truck and camper purchase would be a long term deal. We are somewhat minimalist so a monster rig is not necessary.
Right now we have a small class C which is wonderful for weekend and 2 week trips but don't think it would work for months at a time. The good thing is we bought it for $15,000 in like new condition albeit older but very low mileage so don't have a lot of money tied up in it. We plan on keeping it until retirement and then make some decisions on which rig to buy.
Planning is kind of fun :)
Mark
I totally agree that being debt free before full timing is a major advantage. I will not retire if I have any debt. Everyone's circumstances are different though.
Mark
We've known several people that were going to do this and that as soon as they had enough money, all debts paid, the house paid, and on and on and on. Unfortunately life ran out before all of their well made plans came to fruition. Don't wait to long - time has a way of running out on us all.
Barb
Amen! I'm afraid that's going to happen to us, our Realtor was supposed to call us and get the ball rolling on March 1st but here we are playing the waiting game again....may need a different Realtor. I hope to make it Full Time before I assume room temperature.
I know I've said it in other posts as well but here goes...
My wife was a Hospice nurse and area nurse manager for 10 years. As a hospice volunteer visiting families and patients with her, I never heard once that so and so had seen everything or had done everything they wanted. What we heard was all the missed opportunities that were never taken advantage of, all the places folks dreamed of but never got to see, from local wandering to global trips. In 10 years and 100's of patients and families I never once heard "I wish I had worked longer" it was always "I wish I had spent more time with family and friends making memories with others".
Selling most of your worldly possessions and moving into a true mobile home may not make the most financial sense, but if you want to try it JUST DO IT.
You won't get out of this life alive.
-- Edited by Alie and Jims Carrilite on Wednesday 26th of March 2014 06:15:41 AM
The beginning of March I got the hitch itch fever; I couln't place it at first thought it was Spring Fever!!!! Read my Signature line!!!
Mark
Mark, I can totally relate. Since Cindi(DW) initially floated the idea, I was totally on board but it turned out she was still kinda on the fence.
I can see her hesitation ever since she lost her job.
While we have had a serious income disruption we are still able to go FT in 2019, which is 3 years ahead of what she would prefer for SSA and pension reasons. I'm the numbers guy and I've crunched them 6 ways to Sunday and every variable I can think of still shows it's possible by 2019. Each time we sit down together to review our progress she's becoming more comfortable with my projections, but not completely. Heck every time I read about workamping, frugal RV tips, inspiration from Lucky Mike or Pieere or so many others I refine what is possible and believe it or not the date that is do-able for us keeps getting closer. I have some scenarios that actually can start us FT in 2017 but confidence isn't there yet to fully commit to such an aggressive target as long as she isn't fully onboard with the 2019 plan. Small steps. More research. More small steps. Confidence changes to excitement. Excitement starts preparations. Preparations means commitment to the plan.
I am sooooo ready to jump in... she will too, in time(and in less than she thinks
)
CANNONBALL!!!!!
-- Edited by biggaRView on Wednesday 26th of March 2014 04:59:33 PM
What a gift for understatement you have