Joe Average Asks What It Will Take to Go Fulltiming?
azrving said
09:56 PM Jan 19, 2014
SnowGypsy wrote:
I asked for the post to be reviewed that I had made since I was personally attacked for making the statement. What makes me more touchy is that I don't need to be reminded that we aren't "average". Escapees also started out as a place for everyone, the same idea I think as this website was , but that changed over the years. The ones that started Escapees seemed like the most wonderful people and I once got a personal response from the lady although I don't recall her name at the moment. I really hope that this forum doesn't go the way of Escapees where families are shunned and people told to "earn" being able to full-time by working until you have a retirement funds available. Gee I got sick of hearing that and we didn't renew our membership. We just aren't a fit here either and I know it. No big deal. This is my last post. Good luck to everyone in their adventures.
Sorry Terry, I know this is not on topic.
SnowGypsy,
The moderator removed the post and I hope you will reconsider your decision to leave.
We all have opinions and sometimes we step on each other's toes but in the end this is still the best RV Forum out there. I appreciate a good debate, I think most of us do but we shouldn't take our marbles and go home when someone disagrees or says/writes something that offends us. I have enjoyed your post/contributions and I hope you will give RV Dreams another chance. JMO
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."
George S. Patton
-- Edited by azrving on Sunday 19th of January 2014 10:13:37 PM
Alie and Jims Carrilite said
07:24 AM Jan 20, 2014
I just reread the entire thread as well. If Tery or Howard already removed the post then I missed it.
Everybody has the same base needs. Just some have more variety in those needs than others. When we started this adventure I looked at our budget, and then every budget I could find about fulltiming. Does anyone remember Jerry and Cynthia? He was a retired police wounded officer? I remember them fulltiming on something like $1400 a month or so. And they enjoyed it. They stopped posting awhile ago, I'm sure it was health related but they had a great site.
What I figured from looking at and comparing budgets is fulltiming is doable on any budget.
We try to stay at the $100-$110 a day- $36500+-. This includes everything- everything includes from savings to medicines that help us walk and talk.
I won't say we are private about our budget, I'm sure some would be critical of it, and some would be envious of it. I'm more than willing to share the highlights of it with anyone personally by PM or E-mail.
Lucky Mike said
08:44 AM Jan 20, 2014
My Take on average Joe.....
I met him in Quartsite AZ , He sat by the fire with me and others. He showed up in his old van with a big smile on his face,He had it his way and was enjoying every minute of it sitting with new and old friends talking about our journey's
I met him in Arundel Maine ,He pulled in to the lot toting a little 16' Travel trailer with his dog asked us if there was room for 1 more for the nite and if the flea market was profitable for the week.....he had his quirks but he made the week enjoyable
I met Them in St Augustine Fla. They pulled in in an older 5ver....there kids came over to pet the dog and play!..My nikki was happy to oblige they played ball for hours , there mom and dad came over and we had a pot luck BBQ it was a great nite!
I met them in Ossipee NH..I was sitting there when a Grand 40' DP pulled in , it set my imagination going on what it would be like to own one!.....then they pulled in next to me and the door opened and the slides came out , a little old man came out and set out the awning and the chairs. a few minutes later his wife followed. ......Barney & Harriette! The stories they had to tell that weekend and the lessons they taught will never be forgotten....(Out of all the people I've met...I miss them!)
Whether your out here on a budget created by the seat of your pants.....living day to day on your SSD/I check or Savings.....Making a great living on the road with your business....or your investments have paid off with large dividends.....
you made it out here!!....you were willing to see beyond your fears and formulate a plan to make it work,and it did!
I met a man out here that started out well....lost it all became homeless and ventured off with a backpack and a sleeping bag....while on the road he managed to work his way up to a very nice life , a coach that put a roof over his head and food for him and his dog , and the ability to travel about and enjoy his end years.......He's just an average Joe willing to take a chance and learn from others and live within his means no matter what that is!!!!
Signed your Average Joe & his Dog
Lucky Mike & Nikki !!!!!!!
-- Edited by Lucky Mike on Monday 20th of January 2014 08:46:50 AM
Lucky Mike said
08:53 AM Jan 20, 2014
In my heart of hearts, I no longer want to be Better than you Smarter than you Thinner than you Prettier than you Faster than you Stronger than you More accomplished than you More creative than you A better mother than you A better friend than you Better educated than you ANYTHING more than you.
I want to walk this path Side by side In awe of who you are In awe of what your gifts are To see you only in love and light With your beauty shining through Just as you are. And I want you to see me the same way. For I really do love you Just as you are. I only thought I had to be better In order for you to love me.
I drop this cloak of outshining at the gate. It has been such a heavy burden, An unnecessary burden A self imposed burden. Will you still love me Being just as I am. In my heart of hearts, I know you will.
~ Katy Stevenson Wirth
Look in the mirror....Do you know who average Joe is now......?
-- Edited by Lucky Mike on Monday 20th of January 2014 09:46:43 AM
BiggarView said
08:54 AM Jan 20, 2014
This seems to a be common question in this forum.
What is average? Averages are computed by using statistics. If you you use U.S. Census Bureau data you get one answer. The RVIA would have a different answer. One should be careful not to pigeonhole themselves by someone else's arbitrary evaluations. Lucky Mike has shown time and again that you don't need much to do this, there are others who need much more but then their experience determines their need or want.
I'd choose to be a statistical sample of one. That is all that should matter. We are using Howard's moderate budget as a template for our future RV adventure.... tailored for us. We'll do more of some things and less of others. We have built in more of cushion than they are using because that is what we are comfortable with. Could we do it on less, absolutely. Thinking about what matters to you is how you determine a budget. Budgets have to fit with available income or reserves.
Only you can decide what is "average" or who's measure you want to use but heed the words of Winston Churchill, who said "...there are lies, damn lies and then there statistics...."
Dream your own dream, go your own path and as Mike has aptly put it many times.... breath, relax.
WestWardHo said
09:00 AM Jan 20, 2014
I'm with Jake62. ???? Guess I missed something. It's been a good discussion of DIFFERENT lifestyles, budgets, choices & ideas.
Sherry
BiggarView said
09:30 AM Jan 20, 2014
Mike, that poem is a treasure. Thanks for sharing it.
WestWardHo said
09:35 AM Jan 20, 2014
Mike, we just downright love you!!
Sherry & Jesse
Sushidog said
12:27 PM Jan 20, 2014
Mike, you are anything but average, my friend.
Chip
RVKevi said
06:32 PM Jan 20, 2014
Lucky Mike wrote:
In my heart of hearts, I no longer want to be Better than you Smarter than you Thinner than you Prettier than you Faster than you Stronger than you More accomplished than you More creative than you A better mother than you A better friend than you Better educated than you ANYTHING more than you.
I want to walk this path Side by side In awe of who you are In awe of what your gifts are To see you only in love and light With your beauty shining through Just as you are. And I want you to see me the same way. For I really do love you Just as you are. I only thought I had to be better In order for you to love me.
I drop this cloak of outshining at the gate. It has been such a heavy burden, An unnecessary burden A self imposed burden. Will you still love me Being just as I am. In my heart of hearts, I know you will.
~ Katy Stevenson Wirth
Look in the mirror....Do you know who average Joe is now......?
-- Edited by Lucky Mike on Monday 20th of January 2014 09:46:43 AM
Mike, that poem is wonderful!
Terry and Jo said
10:35 PM Jan 20, 2014
We are off-topic again with this one. The original poster's question was related to "what" it took to for an average person to go full-timing. Unfortunately, the off-topic comments have led to one person "removing" themselves from the forums entirely and another (unbeknownst to themselves) to be "sort-of" on probation. While many comments have been instructive and even inspirational, they are not necessarily related to the original poster's query.
Let's get back on topic.
Terry
Moderator (and I really hate having to put that word there; I'd rather just be part of the family.)
NWescapee said
11:07 PM Jan 20, 2014
So, what's average? The original poster, Russ Ranger is from Gig Harbor WA, an area I happen to know a bit about. Houses are not cheap there, taxes are not cheap there, my guess is average there is higher than average in many other areas of middle America, in fact anywhere on either coast is likely to be higher than most of middle America. Like Russ Ranger, we're most recently from Western WA, but from a much lower "average" income area (Auburn WA), our home was definitely in a more blue collar neighborhood there than the house we had previously owned in Carrollton TX where we were definitely in the below average of income with a lot of doctors and lawyers in the neighborhood. I actually preferred the low key attitude in our WA neighborhood, not near as much of the "keeping up with the Jones" attitude.
Does it really matter what "Joe Average" is? We all work our budgets, we look at the fact that we are continuing to work or deciding to retire, take a job or business on the road or not, depend on Social Security, pension funds, etc. and make a "best guess" at what it will take for us to make this work.
If you really think spending habits will change when you are on the road, beware!!! If you liked eating out a lot, are you going to feel deprived when you suddenly have to cook and eat at home all the time? If you enjoyed weekly visits to the movie theater to catch the latest flick, are you going to be willing to wait for it to come out on Dish or Direct TV?
In the end, everyone has to set their own budget, establish their emergency fund, budget for the expected and have reserves for the unexpected or face the consequences. If you've never lived on a budget or had any idea of what you spent monthly for expenses, deciding to go full time before you know that might not be advised.
Just my thoughts from someone who took a virtual job on the road, a husband who is self-employed who took his job on the road, working really hard to save for an early retirement but realizing we are far from "average" in any RV forum for full timers who are mostly retired.
Russ Ranger said
12:00 AM Jan 21, 2014
It is interesting how threads within a forum weave and wander. I actually love that. Sometimes that weaving leads to some jewels of wisdom.
When I originally posed the question I never thought that the subject would lean toward the whole "Average" discussion. In my mind I thought it would center around the "Gotcha Stuff" and "Life Happens". I was curious if other people played the "what if" game in their middle of the night worrying sessions.
I've always understood that if you asked 100 RVer their budget there would be 125 different answers. For me it was never meant to be a budget question. I was more interested in strategies that would help keep me on the road. But I still love the way this and other threads wander.
I am grateful that Terry is willing to try to herd this group. Thank you.
By the way I am "from" Gig Harbor. Part of the Rangers big adventure was the fact that if we stayed there we couldn't afford to do our RV/Mexico adventure. Just like everyone else, if we didn't give up our old life we couldn't start a new one. As I drove away in a 2000 motorhome I'm not sure anyone was to impressed.
Hdrider said
06:05 AM Jan 21, 2014
NWescapee wrote:
So, what's average? The original poster, Russ Ranger is from Gig Harbor WA, an area I happen to know a bit about. Houses are not cheap there, taxes are not cheap there, my guess is average there is higher than average in many other areas of middle America, in fact anywhere on either coast is likely to be higher than most of middle America. Like Russ Ranger, we're most recently from Western WA, but from a much lower "average" income area (Auburn WA), our home was definitely in a more blue collar neighborhood there than the house we had previously owned in Carrollton TX where we were definitely in the below average of income with a lot of doctors and lawyers in the neighborhood. I actually preferred the low key attitude in our WA neighborhood, not near as much of the "keeping up with the Jones" attitude.
Does it really matter what "Joe Average" is? We all work our budgets, we look at the fact that we are continuing to work or deciding to retire, take a job or business on the road or not, depend on Social Security, pension funds, etc. and make a "best guess" at what it will take for us to make this work.
If you really think spending habits will change when you are on the road, beware!!! If you liked eating out a lot, are you going to feel deprived when you suddenly have to cook and eat at home all the time? If you enjoyed weekly visits to the movie theater to catch the latest flick, are you going to be willing to wait for it to come out on Dish or Direct TV?
In the end, everyone has to set their own budget, establish their emergency fund, budget for the expected and have reserves for the unexpected or face the consequences. If you've never lived on a budget or had any idea of what you spent monthly for expenses, deciding to go full time before you know that might not be advised.
Just my thoughts from someone who took a virtual job on the road, a husband who is self-employed who took his job on the road, working really hard to save for an early retirement but realizing we are far from "average" in any RV forum for full timers who are mostly retired.
Well put. While researching the fulltime RV lifestyle all we can do is maybe look at expenses others have posted and you can't stop there. You need to spend some time to study the life style of those that posted the expenses. Figure out if they are anything like you in what they like to do, what they travel in, how much they actually travel, how they like to camp, what their eating habits are and on and on and on.
We all live differently. While working and living in the S&B's I never really bothered to look at the checking account balance and simply bought pretty much what I wanted when I wanted. I would have considered ourselves a little above average in that area but now we certainly pay attention and would consider ourselves below average in the RV world I guess but we don't care. We are living the life!!
Sushidog said
07:39 AM Jan 21, 2014
I think when anyone retires they are looking at a major life adjustment. Life will slow down a lot for all but the most prepared. And even then, sometimes unexpected medical expenses, the death of a spouse or close family member, or many other life altering events change what we thought retirement would be, whether mobile or not.
I believe in walking by faith rather than stress about what might happen. I'm reminded of a famous locker room pep talk by coach A.L. Williams (long before his insurance days) which is summed up as: (also the title of one of his books) "All You Can Do Is All You Can Do But All You Can Do Is Enough!" Prepare as best you can and trust God for the rest is my motto. Also don't be afraid to change what you have planned for what God, in his infinite wisdom, has planned for your life.
Chip
Jake62 said
09:31 AM Jan 21, 2014
After pondering this topic a little more and reading some of the other posts, I think "Joe Average" on the road possibly looks at his future finances/budget on the road through two different lenses.
First, there are those who are retired and will retire in the near future, me :). At least from my perspective, I look at my future known income and then plan my expenses around that known income. Regardless of your level of income, if you're no longer working for money, you simply adjust your expenses based on your income. Some on this forum may bring in $20,000 and, thus, will use Howard's lower end budget. Some, because of retirement pensions or 401K accounts, may bring in $100,000, thus using Howard's higher end budget. In either case, the individual in this situation will adjust their expenses based on this known incoming money.
Second, there are those who want to leave their jobs early and hit the road without a known steady stream of income, even if they have contingency funds set aside. A great example of this is H&L who have consistently demonstrated their aptitude to adjust their expenses based on their income. In this case, this individual would first look at "what it would cost" to live on the road, then find the employment opportunities to earn that income to afford those expenses and, most likely, additional income to set aside for future emergency expenses or a retirement savings account. Using Howard's budgets (or the many that have been published) you pick a budget and then pursue the employment opportunities to afford that budget.
In the first case, the individual looks at what he can "spend" on his expenses based on known income and ensures they stay within those expenses.
In the second case, the individual looks at what it "costs" to live on the road, and then ensures he earns sufficient income to afford that lifestyle.
Since there is not a "right" or "wrong," both perspectives can be pursued to fulfill your dreams ...
Does this make sense or am I off-base? What say you?
2riker2go said
10:03 AM Jan 21, 2014
I've followed along on this thread from the beginning. I think it's a great discussion, and very thought-provoking. I do think that people (not here on this forum necessarily, but just in general) get too caught up in trying to define the word average, and feeling defensive if maybe someone doesn't think they measure up. I used to be a teacher, and saw parents fall into the same trap, wanting their child to be above a certain statistical number in every way. Average is just a term used for comparison - but too often I think people equate average with normal.
For me, for the question of what the "average joe" would need to go fulltiming....I spent the years before we actually hit the road doing a lot of research on budgets. I always appreciated that people were willing to share their numbers. I basically used those budgets to come up with categories that I felt applied to our lifestyle. From those budgets I was able to come up with sample numbers for the cost of insurance etc. But other numbers and budget lines I adapted. Maybe what this person spends in an average year on entertainment doesn't match up with what I would spend, or they don't have pets, so I have to add a line for that since we have two cats. I think coming up with a budget was one of the most important steps for us. We are blessed that we have some income from my husband's pension, but that number didn't match up with the budget line of income we needed, so we made the decision to work at Amazon for the fall seasons to supplement our income.
I've read enough threads on here to know that there are a lot of different budgets for full-timing. So I don't think it's really a number that "joe average" needs. I think it's knowledge. As far as numbers, everyone's bottom line will be different, and that's normal. :)
-- Edited by 2riker2go on Tuesday 21st of January 2014 10:05:32 AM
Russ Ranger said
10:15 AM Jan 21, 2014
Jake62,
You are right on. I think you have simplified the whole income side of the discussion. Wish I would have been smart enough to state it that well.
I'm definitely in your first group. Each month I sing an old Sons of the Pioneers song to my wife, "When that old age pension check rolls through the door". The Roy Rogers song sums it all up for me. There is probably no one out there that has even heard this song, but it makes me laugh every month.
Now days it's not the front door, it's the screen of my laptop. You are right, I can look at that number and see exactly what we have to live on for the next month. If there's any left over it goes into savings. If I miss on budgeting a little comes out of savings.
After 44 years of work and being physically all worn out, my wish and hope is not to be in group two again. I'll adjust my new life to the "old age pension check".
BiggarView said
12:31 PM Jan 21, 2014
Jake62's comments are well thought out and easy to understand by any layperson. I would add, that many of the "Joe Averages" out there(not pointing any fingers either) seem to be somewhat financially inept.(I've had my moments in the past, hopefully I've learned thing or two and can pass it along) Allow me to explain...
Many people I talk to cringe at the very mention of the word "Budget". When asked to explain their reaction they frequently use descriptions that include words evoking restraint or punishment etc. Perhaps helping understand that budgets are liberating and enabling devices to achieve dreams is what is needed. Do you think the wealthy don't use a budget? (I don't want to make this about money but the OP wanted to know about the requirements for when "life happens" and planning for it) Budgets need not be difficult to understand or establish. The problem is when one does not consider "life happens"as a budget category.(ask me how I know this) Most will recognise this as a emergency fund. Emergency funds are untouchable except for real emergencies. Some will need more than others some will need less, some will have more than others, some will have less. The beauty of it is you get to decide your personal comfort level for how much this important category should have in your budget. There are many adages out there about planning for "winter" during the "summer" and I won't go into them here. My point isn't that you should not worry about the what if's etc, but to recognise these things WILL happen to the very best of us and it's prudent to set aside funds for that eventuality. Once you have set aside the amount you think is necessary, you really don't need to keep adding to it, although you should always re-examine your needs from time to time to make sure you have enough. For example: Got a big medical thing coming up? Maybe you should start salting more away to cover it.
How much should that be? Many sage advisors in money management recommend 3-6 months of expenses. If you are in good health, don't engage in risky lifestyle activities etc., you may be able to function well at the lower end of the cited range. If, however, your health isn't so good, or other reason for possibly needing more then you should think about the upper end of the range cited. In no case should you consider having no emergency fund, that would be unwise. The amount you have in an emergency fund is amount you need when something big comes up and you can say "It's okay, I've got it covered" and not "Oh my God, I'm ruined". Insurance functions the same way. You are removing the risk of something bad financial ruining you. It may not be enough to cover everything, but having nothing set aside for such eventualities will surely ruin you at some point when you are least able to afford it. Even then all is not necessarily lost.(Ask me how I know this too.)
Another aspect of what it takes to go FT, is what you need to start off with. Opinions vary on a dollar amount, I won't cover that. Each person considering the FT RV lifestyle needs to evaluate their needs regarding the rig they'd like to have or can afford, lifestyle choices and habits etc. Once you have that figured out more or less you can add up those one time and before you go purchases, add in your emergency fund, and operating capital(bank account) and you arrive at a basic number for what it takes to get out of the driveway. Obviously the more you have left over after outfitting yourself, the more comfortable your financial picture will be. Now factor in income vs expenses. If your income is stable(eg pension) then your expenses should fit your available income.( remember to pay yourself as a budget category) Less stable income requires additional planning and more funds set aside to cover the "lean times". The closer your expenses are to your income the more you will be flying by the seat of your pants. The more income you left over the more comfortable your lifestyle will be. Anything else could end in disaster and nobody on this forum or anybody I know would wish that on anyone. If one finds they are in the zone of potential ruin then they will need to make changes to the choices they have made and/or educate themselves about better options in order to acheive their dream. Is there another strategy to accomplish all of this? Duh!! There is no one way to do this except that one keeps that "what can go wrong thing" in the back of their mind and plans accordingly for it.
Sorry for the long post.
-- Edited by biggaRView on Tuesday 21st of January 2014 12:35:02 PM
-- Edited by biggaRView on Tuesday 21st of January 2014 12:55:28 PM
bjoyce said
01:07 PM Jan 21, 2014
I am thinking this whole discussion should really be in "Money Stuff".
I will say that if your income really is "fixed", it will not go as far in 5, 10 or 20 years. That applies with or without an RV. In an RV you can make choices that cause you to spend less. But if you start out having a steak twice a week with wine, cat food casserole will still be a let down.
BiggarView said
02:36 PM Jan 21, 2014
Bill, I agree on both thoughts. On the second, hopefully those on "fixed" incomes have planned for that situation so it won't become a hardship later. The idea that the catfood was coming should be enough incentive to cut down the steak and wine. Having the figurative "steak" less often will help one appreciate steak when one gets it. Sadly, our consumer society has brainwashed us to have it all and have it now. Judging by how much stuff many are in the process of purging as they go FT, a lot of us(me included) drank that Kool-Aid. Fortunately the whole living with less stuff and living more life is gaining some traction in our culture. FTers are leading the way(OOOH RA) Lucky Mike's experiences and sound recommendations give hope to the huddled massed that anyone can function on a very small amount of money(relatively speaking) and there is no reason why those with more cannot gain a benefit by practicing some of the same ideas.
Mark V said
02:56 PM Jan 21, 2014
Sushidog wrote:
There are many ways to get by cheaper and easier when Rving and less encumbered with property and the bills to maintain and keep said stuff from falling into the hands of the tax man. For the cost of just my homeowner's insurance and property tax on my old S&B I could replace my entire diesel powered tow vehicle, not just the engine, every 2 years.
Chip
This is one of the prime motivations for us. My sister has her "Dream Home" that currently comes with a $9,000 a year real estate tax bill. Between her and her husband, their monthly retirement income won't be a whole lot of money, and by the time they stop working their property taxes will be close to $12,000 per year, based on the current state of affairs in Illinois. Personally, I'll be dipped in you-know-what before I'll pay the government a thousand dollars a month just for the privilege of living in my own house. Add in the cost of insurance, utilities, along with everything else, and it'll probably be closer to $2,000 a month just to keep the lights on in that S&B. And that's all before paying a cent on the monthly mortgage, or putting a plate of food on the table or a gallon of gas in the car.
Sushidog said
02:57 PM Jan 21, 2014
Good advice, BigaRView, as only a fool would go without an emergency fund. However sometimes even a large emergency fund is not enough. In the past my first wife (in her early 40's) was faced with a rather large medical expense that exceeded the 14 month's income I had in my emergency fund, requiring maxing out our credit cards and even taking out a loan to pay the hospital bill. Sure the insurance paid about 75%, but the other 25% was still about 2 years income. One can plan for an unexpected vehicle repair, but how can one plan for such a catastrophic medical expense? No insurance pays for everything, even those that claim to pay 100% it is only for "reasonable and customary charges." If you choose to go to a first class medical facility that charges 25% above what the insurance is willing to reimburse, as the medical condition demands the very best treatment to increase a slim chance of survival, then you're responsible for the balance. You really have little choice when the life of a loved one is at stake. We can only just pray it never happens to us, or never at least happens again.
Chip
-- Edited by Sushidog on Tuesday 21st of January 2014 02:58:57 PM
Jake62 said
03:00 PM Jan 21, 2014
bjoyce wrote:
I am thinking this whole discussion should really be in "Money Stuff".
I will say that if your income really is "fixed", it will not go as far in 5, 10 or 20 years. That applies with or without an RV. In an RV you can make choices that cause you to spend less. But if you start out having a steak twice a week with wine, cat food casserole will still be a let down.
Good point Bill,
For example, last year's inflation rate was 1.5% for the year. Most Americans will receive, at some point in their life, a Social Security check which, although considered a "fixed" income, usually receives "COLAs." For 2014, the SS COLA was 1.5%. However, we don't know what inflation will grow at in 2014 so you may come out ahead or not so much.
However, you would also have to evaluate your other incoming assets, pensions, etc., to determine if you've "lost ground" (the asset/pension didn't grow at 1.5%) or "gained ground" (the asset/pension grew at a higher rate than inflation.)
BiggarView said
03:25 PM Jan 21, 2014
It's likely that inflation will outstrip even the COLA of SSA. However even a small nest egg combined with the abiltiy to keep your expenses to say 80% of your pension and investing the remainder in good mutual funds at least in the beginning when it will be easiest to do, will allow your funds to last for a good long time, barring a catastrophy. Of course this will be harder to do for those with very small pensions unless their nest egg is larger.
-- Edited by biggaRView on Tuesday 21st of January 2014 03:26:09 PM
Mark V said
03:28 PM Jan 21, 2014
biggaRView wrote:
Another aspect of what it takes to go FT, is what you need to start off with. Opinions vary on a dollar amount, I won't cover that. Each person considering the FT RV lifestyle needs to evaluate their needs regarding the rig they'd like to have or can afford, lifestyle choices and habits etc. Once you have that figured out more or less you can add up those one time and before you go purchases, add in your emergency fund, and operating capital(bank account) and you arrive at a basic number for what it takes to get out of the driveway.
_____________________
For us, the main requirement will be having a late model rig that's fully paid for, locked in health insurance, and about $25,000 in liquid assets for emergencies. Our retirement income should take care of the day to day expenses. Downsizing shouldn't be too much of a problem, as we've gone from living in a house, to living in a smaller rental apartment already, and we don't anticipate that taking the next step will be all that difficult. I hate clutter, so accumulating and keeping a lot of junk shouldn't be an issue.
BiggarView said
03:33 PM Jan 21, 2014
Mark, your situation sounds similar to ours, save the the downsizing. We're still in the S&B but have already begun the purge even though we are at least 5 years away from FT. We got got hammered in the recession but we are recovering now and our equity in the house will buy the rig we want our other resources will provide the backstop and our pensions, when they come, will be more than enough to operate this dream. Can't wait to leave Illinois in the proverbial dust.
-- Edited by biggaRView on Tuesday 21st of January 2014 03:34:26 PM
Mark V said
03:57 PM Jan 21, 2014
biggaRView wrote:
. Can't wait to leave Illinois in the proverbial dust.
-- Edited by biggaRView on Tuesday 21st of January 2014 03:34:26 PM
I've lived in Illinois for all but six months of my life, but I've also "been around"; and I can safely say that this state is one of the worst in the entire country in which to be a permanent resident retiree. Get out before they close the borders in order to keep the few remaining taxpayers from escaping!
Sorry Terry, I know this is not on topic.
SnowGypsy,
The moderator removed the post and I hope you will reconsider your decision to leave.
We all have opinions and sometimes we step on each other's toes but in the end this is still the best RV Forum out there. I appreciate a good debate, I think most of us do but we shouldn't take our marbles and go home when someone disagrees or says/writes something that offends us. I have enjoyed your post/contributions and I hope you will give RV Dreams another chance. JMO
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."
George S. Patton
-- Edited by azrving on Sunday 19th of January 2014 10:13:37 PM
Everybody has the same base needs. Just some have more variety in those needs than others. When we started this adventure I looked at our budget, and then every budget I could find about fulltiming. Does anyone remember Jerry and Cynthia? He was a retired police wounded officer? I remember them fulltiming on something like $1400 a month or so. And they enjoyed it. They stopped posting awhile ago, I'm sure it was health related but they had a great site.
What I figured from looking at and comparing budgets is fulltiming is doable on any budget.
We try to stay at the $100-$110 a day- $36500+-. This includes everything- everything includes from savings to medicines that help us walk and talk.
I won't say we are private about our budget, I'm sure some would be critical of it, and some would be envious of it. I'm more than willing to share the highlights of it with anyone personally by PM or E-mail.
My Take on average Joe.....
I met him in Quartsite AZ , He sat by the fire with me and others. He showed up in his old van with a big smile on his face,He had it his way and was enjoying every minute of it sitting with new and old friends talking about our journey's
I met him in Arundel Maine ,He pulled in to the lot toting a little 16' Travel trailer with his dog asked us if there was room for 1 more for the nite and if the flea market was profitable for the week.....he had his quirks but he made the week enjoyable
I met Them in St Augustine Fla. They pulled in in an older 5ver....there kids came over to pet the dog and play!..My nikki was happy to oblige they played ball for hours , there mom and dad came over and we had a pot luck BBQ it was a great nite!
I met them in Ossipee NH..I was sitting there when a Grand 40' DP pulled in , it set my imagination going on what it would be like to own one!.....then they pulled in next to me and the door opened and the slides came out , a little old man came out and set out the awning and the chairs. a few minutes later his wife followed. ......Barney & Harriette! The stories they had to tell that weekend and the lessons they taught will never be forgotten....(Out of all the people I've met...I miss them!)
Whether your out here on a budget created by the seat of your pants.....living day to day on your SSD/I check or Savings.....Making a great living on the road with your business....or your investments have paid off with large dividends.....
you made it out here!!....you were willing to see beyond your fears and formulate a plan to make it work,and it did!
I met a man out here that started out well....lost it all became homeless and ventured off with a backpack and a sleeping bag....while on the road he managed to work his way up to a very nice life , a coach that put a roof over his head and food for him and his dog , and the ability to travel about and enjoy his end years.......He's just an average Joe willing to take a chance and learn from others and live within his means no matter what that is!!!!
Signed your Average Joe & his Dog
Lucky Mike & Nikki !!!!!!!
-- Edited by Lucky Mike on Monday 20th of January 2014 08:46:50 AM
In my heart of hearts,
I no longer want to be
Better than you
Smarter than you
Thinner than you
Prettier than you
Faster than you
Stronger than you
More accomplished than you
More creative than you
A better mother than you
A better friend than you
Better educated than you
ANYTHING more than you.
I want to walk this path
Side by side
In awe of who you are
In awe of what your gifts are
To see you only in love and light
With your beauty shining through
Just as you are.
And I want you to see me the same way.
For I really do love you
Just as you are.
I only thought I had to be better
In order for you to love me.
I drop this cloak of outshining at the gate.
It has been such a heavy burden,
An unnecessary burden
A self imposed burden.
Will you still love me
Being just as I am.
In my heart of hearts,
I know you will.
~ Katy Stevenson Wirth
Look in the mirror....Do you know who average Joe is now......?
-- Edited by Lucky Mike on Monday 20th of January 2014 09:46:43 AM
This seems to a be common question in this forum.
What is average? Averages are computed by using statistics. If you you use U.S. Census Bureau data you get one answer. The RVIA would have a different answer. One should be careful not to pigeonhole themselves by someone else's arbitrary evaluations. Lucky Mike has shown time and again that you don't need much to do this, there are others who need much more but then their experience determines their need or want.
I'd choose to be a statistical sample of one. That is all that should matter. We are using Howard's moderate budget as a template for our future RV adventure.... tailored for us. We'll do more of some things and less of others. We have built in more of cushion than they are using because that is what we are comfortable with. Could we do it on less, absolutely. Thinking about what matters to you is how you determine a budget. Budgets have to fit with available income or reserves.
Only you can decide what is "average" or who's measure you want to use but heed the words of Winston Churchill, who said "...there are lies, damn lies and then there statistics...."
Dream your own dream, go your own path and as Mike has aptly put it many times.... breath, relax.
Sherry
Mike, that poem is a treasure. Thanks for sharing it.
Sherry & Jesse
Chip
Mike, that poem is wonderful!
We are off-topic again with this one. The original poster's question was related to "what" it took to for an average person to go full-timing. Unfortunately, the off-topic comments have led to one person "removing" themselves from the forums entirely and another (unbeknownst to themselves) to be "sort-of" on probation. While many comments have been instructive and even inspirational, they are not necessarily related to the original poster's query.
Let's get back on topic.
Terry
Moderator (and I really hate having to put that word there; I'd rather just be part of the family.)
Does it really matter what "Joe Average" is? We all work our budgets, we look at the fact that we are continuing to work or deciding to retire, take a job or business on the road or not, depend on Social Security, pension funds, etc. and make a "best guess" at what it will take for us to make this work.
If you really think spending habits will change when you are on the road, beware!!! If you liked eating out a lot, are you going to feel deprived when you suddenly have to cook and eat at home all the time? If you enjoyed weekly visits to the movie theater to catch the latest flick, are you going to be willing to wait for it to come out on Dish or Direct TV?
In the end, everyone has to set their own budget, establish their emergency fund, budget for the expected and have reserves for the unexpected or face the consequences. If you've never lived on a budget or had any idea of what you spent monthly for expenses, deciding to go full time before you know that might not be advised.
Just my thoughts from someone who took a virtual job on the road, a husband who is self-employed who took his job on the road, working really hard to save for an early retirement but realizing we are far from "average" in any RV forum for full timers who are mostly retired.
When I originally posed the question I never thought that the subject would lean toward the whole "Average" discussion. In my mind I thought it would center around the "Gotcha Stuff" and "Life Happens". I was curious if other people played the "what if" game in their middle of the night worrying sessions.
I've always understood that if you asked 100 RVer their budget there would be 125 different answers. For me it was never meant to be a budget question. I was more interested in strategies that would help keep me on the road. But I still love the way this and other threads wander.
I am grateful that Terry is willing to try to herd this group. Thank you.
By the way I am "from" Gig Harbor. Part of the Rangers big adventure was the fact that if we stayed there we couldn't afford to do our RV/Mexico adventure. Just like everyone else, if we didn't give up our old life we couldn't start a new one. As I drove away in a 2000 motorhome I'm not sure anyone was to impressed.
I believe in walking by faith rather than stress about what might happen. I'm reminded of a famous locker room pep talk by coach A.L. Williams (long before his insurance days) which is summed up as: (also the title of one of his books) "All You Can Do Is All You Can Do But All You Can Do Is Enough!" Prepare as best you can and trust God for the rest is my motto. Also don't be afraid to change what you have planned for what God, in his infinite wisdom, has planned for your life.
Chip
First, there are those who are retired and will retire in the near future, me :). At least from my perspective, I look at my future known income and then plan my expenses around that known income. Regardless of your level of income, if you're no longer working for money, you simply adjust your expenses based on your income. Some on this forum may bring in $20,000 and, thus, will use Howard's lower end budget. Some, because of retirement pensions or 401K accounts, may bring in $100,000, thus using Howard's higher end budget. In either case, the individual in this situation will adjust their expenses based on this known incoming money.
Second, there are those who want to leave their jobs early and hit the road without a known steady stream of income, even if they have contingency funds set aside. A great example of this is H&L who have consistently demonstrated their aptitude to adjust their expenses based on their income. In this case, this individual would first look at "what it would cost" to live on the road, then find the employment opportunities to earn that income to afford those expenses and, most likely, additional income to set aside for future emergency expenses or a retirement savings account. Using Howard's budgets (or the many that have been published) you pick a budget and then pursue the employment opportunities to afford that budget.
In the first case, the individual looks at what he can "spend" on his expenses based on known income and ensures they stay within those expenses.
In the second case, the individual looks at what it "costs" to live on the road, and then ensures he earns sufficient income to afford that lifestyle.
Since there is not a "right" or "wrong," both perspectives can be pursued to fulfill your dreams ...
Does this make sense or am I off-base? What say you?
I've followed along on this thread from the beginning. I think it's a great discussion, and very thought-provoking. I do think that people (not here on this forum necessarily, but just in general) get too caught up in trying to define the word average, and feeling defensive if maybe someone doesn't think they measure up. I used to be a teacher, and saw parents fall into the same trap, wanting their child to be above a certain statistical number in every way. Average is just a term used for comparison - but too often I think people equate average with normal.
For me, for the question of what the "average joe" would need to go fulltiming....I spent the years before we actually hit the road doing a lot of research on budgets. I always appreciated that people were willing to share their numbers. I basically used those budgets to come up with categories that I felt applied to our lifestyle. From those budgets I was able to come up with sample numbers for the cost of insurance etc. But other numbers and budget lines I adapted. Maybe what this person spends in an average year on entertainment doesn't match up with what I would spend, or they don't have pets, so I have to add a line for that since we have two cats. I think coming up with a budget was one of the most important steps for us. We are blessed that we have some income from my husband's pension, but that number didn't match up with the budget line of income we needed, so we made the decision to work at Amazon for the fall seasons to supplement our income.
I've read enough threads on here to know that there are a lot of different budgets for full-timing. So I don't think it's really a number that "joe average" needs. I think it's knowledge. As far as numbers, everyone's bottom line will be different, and that's normal. :)
-- Edited by 2riker2go on Tuesday 21st of January 2014 10:05:32 AM
You are right on. I think you have simplified the whole income side of the discussion. Wish I would have been smart enough to state it that well.
I'm definitely in your first group. Each month I sing an old Sons of the Pioneers song to my wife, "When that old age pension check rolls through the door". The Roy Rogers song sums it all up for me. There is probably no one out there that has even heard this song, but it makes me laugh every month.
Now days it's not the front door, it's the screen of my laptop. You are right, I can look at that number and see exactly what we have to live on for the next month. If there's any left over it goes into savings. If I miss on budgeting a little comes out of savings.
After 44 years of work and being physically all worn out, my wish and hope is not to be in group two again. I'll adjust my new life to the "old age pension check".
Jake62's comments are well thought out and easy to understand by any layperson. I would add, that many of the "Joe Averages" out there(not pointing any fingers either) seem to be somewhat financially inept.(I've had my moments in the past, hopefully I've learned thing or two and can pass it along) Allow me to explain...
Many people I talk to cringe at the very mention of the word "Budget". When asked to explain their reaction they frequently use descriptions that include words evoking restraint or punishment etc. Perhaps helping understand that budgets are liberating and enabling devices to achieve dreams is what is needed. Do you think the wealthy don't use a budget? (I don't want to make this about money but the OP wanted to know about the requirements for when "life happens" and planning for it) Budgets need not be difficult to understand or establish. The problem is when one does not consider "life happens"as a budget category.(ask me how I know this) Most will recognise this as a emergency fund. Emergency funds are untouchable except for real emergencies. Some will need more than others some will need less, some will have more than others, some will have less. The beauty of it is you get to decide your personal comfort level for how much this important category should have in your budget. There are many adages out there about planning for "winter" during the "summer" and I won't go into them here. My point isn't that you should not worry about the what if's etc, but to recognise these things WILL happen to the very best of us and it's prudent to set aside funds for that eventuality. Once you have set aside the amount you think is necessary, you really don't need to keep adding to it, although you should always re-examine your needs from time to time to make sure you have enough. For example: Got a big medical thing coming up? Maybe you should start salting more away to cover it.
How much should that be? Many sage advisors in money management recommend 3-6 months of expenses. If you are in good health, don't engage in risky lifestyle activities etc., you may be able to function well at the lower end of the cited range. If, however, your health isn't so good, or other reason for possibly needing more then you should think about the upper end of the range cited. In no case should you consider having no emergency fund, that would be unwise. The amount you have in an emergency fund is amount you need when something big comes up and you can say "It's okay, I've got it covered" and not "Oh my God, I'm ruined". Insurance functions the same way. You are removing the risk of something bad financial ruining you. It may not be enough to cover everything, but having nothing set aside for such eventualities will surely ruin you at some point when you are least able to afford it. Even then all is not necessarily lost.(Ask me how I know this too.)
Another aspect of what it takes to go FT, is what you need to start off with. Opinions vary on a dollar amount, I won't cover that. Each person considering the FT RV lifestyle needs to evaluate their needs regarding the rig they'd like to have or can afford, lifestyle choices and habits etc. Once you have that figured out more or less you can add up those one time and before you go purchases, add in your emergency fund, and operating capital(bank account) and you arrive at a basic number for what it takes to get out of the driveway. Obviously the more you have left over after outfitting yourself, the more comfortable your financial picture will be. Now factor in income vs expenses. If your income is stable(eg pension) then your expenses should fit your available income.( remember to pay yourself as a budget category) Less stable income requires additional planning and more funds set aside to cover the "lean times". The closer your expenses are to your income the more you will be flying by the seat of your pants. The more income you left over the more comfortable your lifestyle will be. Anything else could end in disaster and nobody on this forum or anybody I know would wish that on anyone. If one finds they are in the zone of potential ruin then they will need to make changes to the choices they have made and/or educate themselves about better options in order to acheive their dream. Is there another strategy to accomplish all of this? Duh!! There is no one way to do this except that one keeps that "what can go wrong thing" in the back of their mind and plans accordingly for it.
Sorry for the long post.
-- Edited by biggaRView on Tuesday 21st of January 2014 12:35:02 PM
-- Edited by biggaRView on Tuesday 21st of January 2014 12:55:28 PM
I will say that if your income really is "fixed", it will not go as far in 5, 10 or 20 years. That applies with or without an RV. In an RV you can make choices that cause you to spend less. But if you start out having a steak twice a week with wine, cat food casserole will still be a let down.
Bill, I agree on both thoughts. On the second, hopefully those on "fixed" incomes have planned for that situation so it won't become a hardship later. The idea that the catfood was coming should be enough incentive to cut down the steak and wine. Having the figurative "steak" less often will help one appreciate steak when one gets it. Sadly, our consumer society has brainwashed us to have it all and have it now. Judging by how much stuff many are in the process of purging as they go FT, a lot of us(me included) drank that Kool-Aid. Fortunately the whole living with less stuff and living more life is gaining some traction in our culture. FTers are leading the way(OOOH RA) Lucky Mike's experiences and sound recommendations give hope to the huddled massed that anyone can function on a very small amount of money(relatively speaking) and there is no reason why those with more cannot gain a benefit by practicing some of the same ideas.
This is one of the prime motivations for us. My sister has her "Dream Home" that currently comes with a $9,000 a year real estate tax bill. Between her and her husband, their monthly retirement income won't be a whole lot of money, and by the time they stop working their property taxes will be close to $12,000 per year, based on the current state of affairs in Illinois. Personally, I'll be dipped in you-know-what before I'll pay the government a thousand dollars a month just for the privilege of living in my own house. Add in the cost of insurance, utilities, along with everything else, and it'll probably be closer to $2,000 a month just to keep the lights on in that S&B. And that's all before paying a cent on the monthly mortgage, or putting a plate of food on the table or a gallon of gas in the car.
Good advice, BigaRView, as only a fool would go without an emergency fund. However sometimes even a large emergency fund is not enough. In the past my first wife (in her early 40's) was faced with a rather large medical expense that exceeded the 14 month's income I had in my emergency fund, requiring maxing out our credit cards and even taking out a loan to pay the hospital bill. Sure the insurance paid about 75%, but the other 25% was still about 2 years income. One can plan for an unexpected vehicle repair, but how can one plan for such a catastrophic medical expense? No insurance pays for everything, even those that claim to pay 100% it is only for "reasonable and customary charges." If you choose to go to a first class medical facility that charges 25% above what the insurance is willing to reimburse, as the medical condition demands the very best treatment to increase a slim chance of survival, then you're responsible for the balance. You really have little choice when the life of a loved one is at stake. We can only just pray it never happens to us, or never at least happens again.
Chip
-- Edited by Sushidog on Tuesday 21st of January 2014 02:58:57 PM
Good point Bill,
For example, last year's inflation rate was 1.5% for the year. Most Americans will receive, at some point in their life, a Social Security check which, although considered a "fixed" income, usually receives "COLAs." For 2014, the SS COLA was 1.5%. However, we don't know what inflation will grow at in 2014 so you may come out ahead or not so much.
However, you would also have to evaluate your other incoming assets, pensions, etc., to determine if you've "lost ground" (the asset/pension didn't grow at 1.5%) or "gained ground" (the asset/pension grew at a higher rate than inflation.)
It's likely that inflation will outstrip even the COLA of SSA. However even a small nest egg combined with the abiltiy to keep your expenses to say 80% of your pension and investing the remainder in good mutual funds at least in the beginning when it will be easiest to do, will allow your funds to last for a good long time, barring a catastrophy. Of course this will be harder to do for those with very small pensions unless their nest egg is larger.
-- Edited by biggaRView on Tuesday 21st of January 2014 03:26:09 PM
Mark, your situation sounds similar to ours, save the the downsizing. We're still in the S&B but have already begun the purge even though we are at least 5 years away from FT. We got got hammered in the recession but we are recovering now and our equity in the house will buy the rig we want our other resources will provide the backstop and our pensions, when they come, will be more than enough to operate this dream. Can't wait to leave Illinois in the proverbial dust.
-- Edited by biggaRView on Tuesday 21st of January 2014 03:34:26 PM
I've lived in Illinois for all but six months of my life, but I've also "been around"; and I can safely say that this state is one of the worst in the entire country in which to be a permanent resident retiree. Get out before they close the borders in order to keep the few remaining taxpayers from escaping!