Well we have decided that it is best for us to go the motorhome route. We want a diesel pusher, but are having a really hard time plucking down 150,000+ on USED model let alone what it would cost for a new one. I mean if this was a stick and brick house on property that was going to appreciate then I would be all for it. We plan on full timing for several years and yes this will be our home, but it is a depreciating product. We may go for an even older one to stay under 100,000 because we just cannot wrap our minds around spending that much for a motorhome. Even if it is still 'worth' something in the end, we want to have plenty for when we do need to come off the road and buy a condo or such.
Just my musings as I look for something I can justify spending so much money on.
Wendy
Camper Chronicles said
02:20 PM Mar 31, 2014
Ultimately that's why we went the 5th wheel route...although the truck is way more than a normal vehicle for us we would need a car payment anyways so that's largely a wash. I struggle with spending that much money on something that depreciates as well...although when my grandparents sold two different motor homes they said they made good money on them because they were kept in good repair. So here's how personally I can sleep at night and seriously YMMV....the truck will depreciate like any other car but getting a diesel hopefully I can get well over 100K miles out of it which will even out over the long run. The 5th wheel we are keeping a minimum of 10 years. The cost would roughly be the same of a fancy vacation every year. At the end if I don't get anything out of it...I will just have to live with that.
This really brings up the whole exit strategy conversation. Are you prepared to walk away from this life with the equity from your home spent and no assets to show for it. It's a darn good question and a very tough one...for us the answer was yes and that was largely based on watching our best friend illness lost his home and every penny of his savings from cancer and then die. Prior to that I always made the conservative, safe, and fiscally responsible choices....I am from the Midwest after all :) But watching that...well there are no words...so again for us, we decided to trade in the financial security for the memories...it really boils down to that.
Lucky Mike said
02:27 PM Mar 31, 2014
I have a hard time spending more than 60K on one......there are to many nice used older units out there.....I can take the money saved and maintain it and spend a few years on the road living off of it!
RonaldNC said
02:38 PM Mar 31, 2014
Wendy,
This is a decision that all of us had to make along the way. Bottom line... they are all depreciating assets... so you try to figure out a strategy that minimizes it's impact (perhaps buying a quality used product), while balancing the livability you desire for your life style. One suggestion (which we used) is to figure out the lost depreciation of both options over the length of time you plan to use them, then divide by the number of years to give you a yearly "cost". For us, it figured out to be a higher yearly "cost" for the motorhome option (although not as much as we thought), but we really like the motorhome life style and figured it was worth the difference. Like I said, it's a personal choice.
Whatever you choose, the real objective is to get out there and enjoy!
Good luck,
Ron
lindy said
03:13 PM Mar 31, 2014
We had developed a SHORT list of 5th wheel unit for full time. Then we saw the MH un it shown below and that was it! It will all depend on what you find that will say BUY ME I"M PERFECT FOR YOU.
Alie and Jims Carrilite said
05:45 PM Mar 31, 2014
I consider it spending the childrens inheritance now. If its too hard to swallow, step back and re-evaluate fulltiming.
Jack Mayer said
06:26 PM Mar 31, 2014
RonaldNC wrote:
For us, it figured out to be a higher yearly "cost" for the motorhome option (although not as much as we thought), but we really like the motorhome life style and figured it was worth the difference. Like I said, it's a personal choice.
OK, I'm just curious, but what is the "motorhome life style".....I think I'm missing something???
Jake62 said
06:31 PM Mar 31, 2014
Yep ... it's a tough thought to swallow, especially if you're looking at it from the perspective that this is an investment, as can be an S&B. What you're really doing is buying the "life-style," with all the life-style affords: flexibility; mobility; new backyard & neighbors weekly or monthly; rallies; friends around the country, volunteering, etc. I think what you have to remember is the Title of these products: "Recreational Vehicle". While some full-time, more use them for entertainment purposes, although many on this forum do indeed full-time.
Although we have used RVs for recreational purposes in the past, we do plan to purchase a DP to full-time next year in for 3-5 years, or longer. We know our used DP will depreciate considerably, but we're not planning on using this money to fully fund our exit plan. Everyone has their own exit plan and some will use their RV to fund some of their exit plan. For us, our exit plan in the future has us keeping the RV ... of course, if health considerations eliminate travel for us, one of the mentioned attributes above, flexibility, will allow us to sell the RV without regrets.
The DW & I have taken some fantastic and fairly expensive vacations. We never got any of our money back, but we will always cherish those moments together
-- Edited by Jake62 on Monday 31st of March 2014 06:38:54 PM
GENECOP said
06:41 PM Mar 31, 2014
Jack Mayer wrote:
RonaldNC wrote:
For us, it figured out to be a higher yearly "cost" for the motorhome option (although not as much as we thought), but we really like the motorhome life style and figured it was worth the difference. Like I said, it's a personal choice.
OK, I'm just curious, but what is the "motorhome life style".....I think I'm missing something???
I think the reference is about the fundamental differences between a Fifth and a Motorhome......the biggest difference for us being the access to our home as we drive down the road. Also the access to our pets and the freedoms they enjoy while rolling. One more typical difference is the abilty to drive a small or mid sized vehicle for day tripping....I think that may be the "MOTORHOME Lifestyle" they are referring to....just a guess....LOL
WendysPhotos said
06:55 PM Mar 31, 2014
Alie and Jims Carrilite wrote:
I consider it spending the childrens inheritance now. If its too hard to swallow, step back and re-evaluate fulltiming.
If we had children I would too, but I guess we are spending our part of our nieces and nephews College funds!
WendysPhotos said
06:57 PM Mar 31, 2014
I guess I should have clarified. We have some great investments that will make our exit strategy fine even if we spent a lot on the motorhome. We are just the type that follow Dave Ramsey and have not ever bought a brand new car, but rather a gently used car. So for us it is a very hard thing to spend that on a depreciating item. I do like the idea that we are spending this money to fund a lifestyle and we will be going Full-Time as soon as the farm sells. It is just very hard for us to look at a motorhome and think I could buy a condo in Florida outright for what I am going to pay for this!
We chose the motorhome route because we want to be able to get up and move about as the hubby has a bad back that starts aching if he sits in a car for extended periods of time. Also the fact that we can pull our Honda CRV to go roam and see the sites without having to wedge a dually into somewhere. I have a dually now for hauling a horse trailer and I really hate having to use it now for groceries and errands.
We will spend it in when the time comes and we find the one we want. It will probably be at least 8 years old though.
Wendy
RonaldNC said
07:38 PM Mar 31, 2014
Jack Mayer wrote:
RonaldNC wrote:
For us, it figured out to be a higher yearly "cost" for the motorhome option (although not as much as we thought), but we really like the motorhome life style and figured it was worth the difference. Like I said, it's a personal choice.
OK, I'm just curious, but what is the "motorhome life style".....I think I'm missing something???
Jack,
I guess I'm just talking about the differences that everyone talks about when describing their choice of motorhome vs. fifth wheel vs. trailer, etc. This seems to be the most talked about topic on just about every forum. Maybe "life style" isn't the right word, but the point is that all of us chose our RV mode of operation for one reason or another.
Am I missing your point?
Ron
-- Edited by RonaldNC on Monday 31st of March 2014 07:39:56 PM
bjoyce said
07:53 PM Mar 31, 2014
My humble advice is to set a price point and see what you can find. I find people try to have too many "must haves" on their list and many of those items are really "would like to have". I treat diesel as a "would like to have". We had a solid gas motorhome before we bought our DP.
Barbaraok said
10:37 PM Mar 31, 2014
WendysPhotos wrote:
I guess I should have clarified. We have some great investments that will make our exit strategy fine even if we spent a lot on the motorhome. We are just the type that follow Dave Ramsey and have not ever bought a brand new car, but rather a gently used car. So for us it is a very hard thing to spend that on a depreciating item. I do like the idea that we are spending this money to fund a lifestyle and we will be going Full-Time as soon as the farm sells. It is just very hard for us to look at a motorhome and think I could buy a condo in Florida outright for what I am going to pay for this!
......
Wendy
Buy the condo and then do ?
Remember, the idea is to spend years enjoying all of the different areas before you are no longer able to, to build memories. If you are fixated on "investment" then this is not the lifestyle for you. You can't put a price tag on the memories you will be building.
We do not owe our families an inheritance. I would have gladly given up the money from Dave's dad in return for him having lived long enough to see his grand daughter grow up.
Barb
BiggarView said
05:07 AM Apr 1, 2014
The cost of ownership of S&B is more than the just the purchase price. Firstly, the last 5 or six years have shown that S&B appreciation is not guaranteed. Second, think of all the things that add to that cost that do not add anything to the value... closing costs on the sale, realtor fees, annual property taxes, association fees, most improvements do not recoup their expense(add to the owners lifestyle or personal satisfaction but not value despite what the TV reality real estate shows say), repairs and upkeep (especially if you buy an existing S&B that's at least ten years old), landscaping and gardening expenses, utility bills that you might not have in an RV. Redecorating a house to suit you taste will more than likely cost way more than in an RV but not really add much, if anything, to the value to any future owner. I could go on, but you get the idea. Most people know about these things but tend to overlook them when they figure the true cost of home ownership.
Now, do the same for an RV.(and yeah they will likely depreciate, but that is part of the calculation)
Add up those costs plus the purchase price over the same time frame as an RV you might own and maintain. S&B ownership starts to seem a lot more expensive in that light. The difference in the S&B vs RV is the value you assign to the "lifestyle" of the RV. Is it worth it? That's up to you. Most people on here think it is.
Dave Ramsey's mantra is "live like nobody else so that later you can live like nobody else". I think that would include this "lifestyle" if your realistic vision about what it takes to do this is in sync with what you have to do this. If you have adhered to his tenets prior to going on the road, then you should have all the tools needed to financial navigate the "lifestyle" without fear of the impact of plunking down 150K on an RV.
FWIW
Also, Barb is absolutely right too. Each of us has to decide what those things/memories are worth. Some are priceless.
-- Edited by biggaRView on Tuesday 1st of April 2014 05:09:56 AM
Camper Chronicles said
05:27 AM Apr 1, 2014
I totally get choosing between a condo and a motor home. We don't like anyone place enough to stay there on all our vacations...we have itchy feet :) so we ruled that out. But yes that would be the more fiscally responsible route for sure. As others said your buying the lifestyle and the freedom that comes with it. Since I have to work until I am 67. I have 20 years to figure this all out and if we have to start all over so be it. I have some investments to give me some see money if it all gos horribly wrong. Many years ago I worked with a woman who sold her house, quit her job and she and her husband and 2 kids spent all the house equity on a 6 month cruise around the world. At the time I thought she was totally crazy and irresponsible although part of me was incredibly jealous.
I would love to talk to her now and see if she regretted it 7 years later but knowing her I doubt she does. She and her kids will have hat experience forever. This lifestyle is my version of that..but still in comparison waaaay more responsible lol
PaulandMB said
10:39 AM Apr 1, 2014
While its true that some stick and brick homes have not appreciated over the last few years, the fact is that those homes can and in most markets do appreciate over time.
A motor home or fifth wheel will depreciate in every conceivable market.
We are thinking hard about fifth wheels because unlike motorhomes, you don't have the additional consideration of declining motor lifespan. If we keep it maintained and repaired, it will retain some diminished value when we transition out of the lifestyle.
The question you must ask is whether the freedom to travel is worth the cost of the declining asset. Assuming that we full time for 3 to 7 years after we retire at 59.5, the combination of truck and fifth wheel is pricey for us but not outrageous. The longer we enjoy and can stay on the road, the easier the cost is to absorb. Anyway just my thoughts as we plan for a target date 3 years and 2 months in the future.
Barbaraok said
12:50 PM Apr 1, 2014
Not sure where you get the idea that all motorhome motors have such a limited lifespan? Are you talking about buying a 20 year old gasser? Newer engines/transmissions (especially diesels) will outlive their owners provided they get their routine maintenance done. And why would the engine/transmission in the truck you are proposing to purchase not have the same, or even shorter, lifespan? All of the interior appliances, etc., are the same whether MH or 5th Wheel.
Barb
The Bear II said
01:25 PM Apr 1, 2014
I had always thought that I would like to get a nice big bus type motorhome some day. Mostly because I would watch a bus MH pull in at the same time we pulled our 5th wheel into a spot. I would still be setting up an hour or so after the bus owner was done and already cooking steaks on the BBQ. It was basically push several buttons and hook up a couple cords and hoses and they would be ready to camp. I on the other hand had to drive up on blocks, crank, push buttons, unhitch, push more buttons, crank some more, hook up cords and hoses. Put out the sat dish and tripod find a signal. Deploy manual awnings....etc. Then I could start cooking steaks.
However, now the 5th wheels can be equipped with all of the automated stuff the MHs have had. So setting up camp is push a few buttons... no more cranking.
Our 5th wheel is 20 years old this year and we are on our third truck. Engine problems and transmission problems plus other stuff related to the strain of towing (burnt wires, blown seals, warped rotors) sidelined the first two trucks.
When we replace the 5th wheel it will be with another larger 5th wheel. When I grow up I want to be just like Jack and Danielle Mayer...
-- Edited by The Bear II on Tuesday 1st of April 2014 01:27:42 PM
WendysPhotos said
01:35 PM Apr 1, 2014
I started this thread as a discussion on the cost of the purchase, not the fact of if we are going to do it or not. We are. period. No doubt. Just waiting for the farm to sell. I was just asking if it gives anyone else heart palpitations thinking about spending that kind of money on a depreciating asset. We have the money to spend for a newer diesel Motorhome are biggest decision is do we buy an older gently used one or splurge and buy the 2-5 year old one. It is hard for us, personally because we are frugal and literately drive a car until the wheels fall off of it. So I was just asking if there are others out there who have a hard time with this issue.
PS you will wear out the vehicle, before you wear out a diesel engine. There are semi's on the road with a million miles on one engine. All the other stuff may go, but a good diesel engine should run a long time.
Wendy
Lucky Mike said
01:42 PM Apr 1, 2014
Wendy ....When a coach hits its 5 yr mark its close to being at a good point in depreciation.....a new coach or a coach at 3 years takes a healthy hit as soon as it is bought or leaves the lot.
at 5 years the depreciation slows and there are alot of really good deals from the jones trying to keep up and your savings are enough for 2 complete rebuilds!
some need a new coach when it gets dirty.....others are happy to wash & wax themselves
CJSX2fromCT said
03:02 PM Apr 1, 2014
PS you will wear out the vehicle, before you wear out a diesel engine. There are semi's on the road with a million miles on one engine. All the other stuff may go, but a good diesel engine should run a long time.
Although it is a semi truck, A good friend of mine is closing in on 3 million miles on his truck... with NO major rebuild, and very little break downs. The way you maintain your vehicle...... determines how long it will last.
My 06 GMC 3500 dmax with Allison. has 132,000 I'm the 3rd owner you can see how the past 2 owners took care of it... The 1st thing I look at when buying a used vehicle is the under carriage, it tells the story.
RonaldNC said
05:19 PM Apr 1, 2014
I agree with Mike on the depreciation curve. I'm on my third motorhome (over 30 years), but I think the 4-5 year mark (particularly diesel buses) is a good sweet spot. I bought the current motorhome at 2 years... did pretty good in the down market... but would have even done better with a little older unit. My only excuse is that I wanted the newer electronics (TV, audio, EMS, etc.) and had to buy a bit newer to get them.
Ron
Jake62 said
06:26 PM Apr 1, 2014
WendysPhotos wrote:
I started this thread as a discussion on the cost of the purchase, not the fact of if we are going to do it or not. We are. period. No doubt. Just waiting for the farm to sell. I was just asking if it gives anyone else heart palpitations thinking about spending that kind of money on a depreciating asset. We have the money to spend for a newer diesel Motorhome are biggest decision is do we buy an older gently used one or splurge and buy the 2-5 year old one. It is hard for us, personally because we are frugal and literately drive a car until the wheels fall off of it. So I was just asking if there are others out there who have a hard time with this issue.
PS you will wear out the vehicle, before you wear out a diesel engine. There are semi's on the road with a million miles on one engine. All the other stuff may go, but a good diesel engine should run a long time.
Wendy
I should have answered you directly: "Yes." But ... I would have a harder time buying a Condo as a second home and still wanting to travel around the country. I would then feel guilty that I'm not using the Condo enough. I'll take the RV option over the 2nd home option any day of the week. That's why I'll keep the RV, even when we do buy an S&B again in the future.
ps - I also follow Dave and his general advice is to stay debt free, which you can certainly do regardless if you purchase an appreciating asset vs. a depreciating asset.
Terry and Jo said
07:25 PM Apr 1, 2014
Jo and I have a truck and fifth wheel instead of a motorhome, although we did look at those as well. Our dream, and now reality, was to sell the home and land and buy an RV so we could travel after retirement. With that in mind, we decided to get the best that we thought we could afford, with the intent that even if we quit traveling, we could still live in it after stopping the travel. While we still aren't traveling a lot, and still may not for anywhere from 1 to 3 years, the last three years of living in ours has shown us that we could easily live in it for an extended period of time.
When we do start to travel, it won't be to move on every week or so. We will stay in areas for anywhere from 1 to 6 months (or possibly longer) while we check out all the attractions that we would want to see before moving on to another area.
In our case, we both dealt with the headache of disposing of our parent's property after they passed on. We decided, and our two sons agree, that we didn't want to have to make them do the same thing that we had to do. Stuff is stuff, whether it is real or personal property. If it ever gets to where we can't live in the fifth wheel, we would rather rent some place, especially considering our ages.
This doesn't answer all of your questions, but I can say that we like the freedom. Besides, what if one got tired of living in the same place. I'd bet I could always hire someone to move us somewhere if we got tired of where we were. That is, provided that we were unable to do the moving ourselves.
Good luck, and embrace the freedom.
Terry
Gpndavid said
08:08 PM Apr 1, 2014
Yes Wendy! We are having the same thoughts and are in much the same situation you are. I too am a Dave Ramsey fan and the geek who spreadsheets everything. Even Dave tells you there are times it is better to pay rent. We moved a lot during my 24 years in the military and it was very stressful to buy a house knowing we were only going to be there three years. Since we are expecting a 3 year full time RV experience, I calculated the expected monthly campground fees and other expenses including $10K per year depreciation. The monthly cost is comparable to renting a 2000sq ft home (yeah, too low for Washington DC and too high for lower Alabama, but a good average). Sure, we could move to where we think we want to finally settle down, invest in a home and work for another 10 years to pay it all off then buy the MH and begin traveling. That would ease my appreciation concerns a bit, but would not give us freedom from a SB home. Age is also a factor. I see many MH's for sale because one or both owners ran into health issues.
Others here have commented on the intangible return on investment this lifestyle provides. We have owned several travel trailers over the years and for the amount of times we used them in a given year, they were very poor monetary investments. However, I can't put a value on washing our toddlers in an action packer outside the pop-up by the fire and a million other experiences.
Good luck hunting for the right MH. See ya at the diesel pump!
kb0zke said
08:38 PM Apr 1, 2014
Welcome to the world of lots of conflicting advice. You, and only you, can make the call about which coach you will buy. I think several people have mentioned several of my suggestions, but I'll put them all in one place.
1. Buy quality. Set the price you are willing to pay, factor in about $10,000 for repairs and upgrades that you want/need, and then buy the highest quality coach you can find for that.
2. A five-year-old coach will cost you a LOT less than a brand-new one. A ten-year-old one will cost less up front, but may cost a bit more in upkeep simply because some of the appliances are nearing the end of their useful life.
3. Yes, an RV is a depreciating asset. The value comes in the enjoyment of it. One person's signature includes the line "Small house, huge yard." There is also the value of sleeping in your own bed each night.
4. You will know the right coach when you find it. Take your time in hunting, and spend lots of time discussing what you want and need. Join the owners' forums for the brands you are considering. For us, a brand that requires you to own their brand in order to post on the forum was an automatic drop from any further consideration. Our top three brands all welcomed us as forum members before we bought anything. Now that we own one of those three brands I'm still welcome on the other two forums, although I don't post much there.
NOWYO said
03:41 PM Apr 6, 2014
The price of a new motorhome is what has kept me out of this lifestyle for years. I never knew or researched the used market, and was pleasantly surprised at what's out there. Setting a price point is a really good idea. That's what we did. We are giving ourselves a good leeway between 30k and 40k. You would be surprised at what's out there!
I like Dave Ramsey too. One of his teachings is not to buy anything on credit you can't afford. Toward that end, we plan to reduce our living cost this summer in an effort to be able to save the money for our MH and buy it outright so that we can enjoy living in it without the burden of a monthly payment. This summer, we begin our five year plan to save the money for our MH and I'm very excited!!
dream reachers said
05:02 PM Apr 6, 2014
I am not giving you advise. We took Dave Ramsey's FPU and got out of debt and eventually paid off the house. We still keep our budget up to date and are generally very frugal with our expenditures. Our budget figures in tire replacement for our motor home as well as our car and also car replacement which many people leave out of their budgets. We bought a used fifth wheel and truck just before going full-time without going in debt. We traveled for 3 1/2 years in that combo and it worked well except for the amount of repairs we had to make on the fifth wheel and my wife was not comfortable in the truck. We put the 5er up for sale and had no nibbles in over 3 months. We had researched motor homes and knew what we wanted. A 4 year old MH with fairly low mileage became available online and they would take our fifth wheel in trade. We made a tenative deal over the phone and drove to another state to inspect the coach and we made the trade. We have been very happy with our MH and have been traveling in it for 3 years . We are not rich but very blessed and are debt free. We volunteer 6 months out of the year which keeps down expenses but we travel all over the USA. We have been living like no one else even if our coach is depreciating. We are serving the Lord and helping others with our volunteer projects and enjoying our travels. We are trying to develope an exit plan for when the time comes that we have to hang up our keys. Like others have said " the decision is yours" I'm glad to see that you are weighing in all the options, that is what we did. Everyones situation is different so you can't make your decision on what someone else has done. PS We had led a FPU class in Maine on one project that we were on for 3 months. Wishing you the best in your future
BJBoyer22 said
05:12 PM Apr 6, 2014
Wendy,
You've hit on the single most troubling aspect of RVing for me.
DW and I had decided to sell our lake properties as the upkeep and maintenance has gotten too much for me. While I'm only 57, and generally in great health, I'm paying the price of playing college football in the 70's; I just had my 13th orthopedic surgery (my 4th shoulder surgery) and I'm looking at knee replacements in the next few years.
I assumed that after we sold we'd move into an apartment in the city or at least a small low maintenance home in the 'burbs. So when DW told me she wanted to pursue a lifelong dream and see the USA in an RV I was pretty taken back. We had a pop-up 25 years ago and have missed camping ever since we sold that little trailer. Well, we've been researching and looking for a few months and just like you I'm having a hard time rationalizing the exchange of capital invested in an appreciating asset and spending it on a depreciating asset.
Here's my plan. I don't know if this works for you or anyone else. First I'm going to buy a 3-5 year old DP so someone else takes the biggest depreciation hit; as noted here there are dozens of quality rigs for sale in that age bracket. Over the years we've come to own a few rental properties; we hired a property management firm to operate them, they charge a reasonable 10% of collected rents (plus any repairs) and they take care of everything (seriously everything). So instead of plunking down 6 figures on a MH I'm going to buy a couple more nice duplex rentals, put down the minimum toward the used MH and have the new rents pay the note on the bus. When we're done RVing in a few years we can sell the rig and the rentals if (we choose to) and settle back down. In the mean time the rentals are appreciating in value and the rents are increasing each year; the MH is still depreciating but at least I have appreciating assets paying for it. All in all it seems the best financial plan I've been able to come up with to support our RV lifestyle.
Regards, Brad
WendysPhotos said
12:11 PM Apr 7, 2014
Thank you Brad. I know we are not the only ones out there. We are still looking and waiting for the farm to sell, but i am still going to go older and save some of the money for the upgrades we want and have some left over for 'after' we experience the US. We are planning on on 5-10 years right now and do not want to be worrying in the back of our heads as to what we will do afterwards for some place to live. All that has played into the amount we are willing to spend on the RV.
We had rental property and did not like the experience, so that is not a route we will take, but for you guys it sounds like a great plan. We have some other options we are looking at for long term income generation. We will see if those work, if not we will do something else. I cannot wait right now though to get on the road.
Wendy
Technomadia said
08:02 PM Apr 7, 2014
We must live in upside down world :)
When I was finally able to sell my house in 2008 (after a year of full timing), I took a substantial loss on it due to the economy. So much for an appreciating 'asset'.
We're now on our third RV.
The first bought brand new, sold for about what we paid for it 1.5 years later.
The second we purchased brand new, and when it sold 3 years later after being full timed in, it sold for 50% more than we paid for it new.
Go figure... those were supposed to be depreciating assets.
When we started shopping for our 3rd RV and knew we wanted a motorhome of some sort, we just couldn't see spending close to 6 figures for what is on the market. So we went another direction - bus conversion. Bought our live-able bus for $8k, and have invested in our happiness of making it truly ours from top to bottom. Couldn't be happier with our decision now nearly 3 years later.
And like our other RV purchases, we purchased what best supported the lifestyle we wanted. We'll see how it rolls when its time to move on to something else.
- Cherie
The Restless Youngs said
08:44 PM Apr 7, 2014
Hi Wendy,
We recently went through what I think you are going through. We are very frugal, so it was a tough concept at the beginning. What I really struggled with was I liked a lot of the features/floorplan of the newer coaches, but knew we weren't going to pay the price of the coaches we liked that werea a couple of years old. We searched up and down, far and wide, and finally found a coach--about five years old--that checked the majority of the boxes. Sure, we compromised on a couple of things, but nothing major. We originally had a budget...then found ourself pushing up 5K, then 10K....and finally reality set in and we went back to our original budget. Ultimately, we exceeded our budget by 3K. We can live with that.
When I think about what the original owners paid for the coach, it puts our purchase into perspective and in the end, think we will have many many happy years in the coach. Can't put a price on that.
kb0zke said
03:54 PM Apr 8, 2014
One thing I've noticed about owners of high quality coaches is that they tend to keep their coaches up to date. Want a residential refrigerator and solar? You may well find both in a 20-year-old 'Bird, Foretravel, or Newell, but probably not in an entry-level coach of the same age. Maybe the fact that those coaches were so expensive to start with has something to do with it (our Foretravel was $350,000 in 1993), or maybe it is because those coaches hold their value a bit better. Whatever the reason, owners of older, high-end coaches often do upgrades so that their older coach is equipped somewhat like the newer ones. It may not pay off as an investment (cash return), but it does add to the enjoyment.
Yes, we've done some upgrades to our coach. The old Dometic refrigerator died, so we have a new residential unit now. The original battery chargers were killing the batteries, so I replaced them with new ones (and two young guys at O'Reilly's put in the two new 8D batteries). The old television sets are gone, and a new flat screen one is now here. Since the new refrigerator takes up less space than the old one, we'll have the Foretravel remodel shop build some new cabinets around it. Same for the spaces where the old television sets were. We're looking at what sort of window treatments are available because we're not pleased with the old, 90's curtains. And so it goes.
My point is that a high quality coach will have a much longer useful life than an entry-level one, and owners will do upgrades as their desires and budgets allow.
WestWardHo said
08:41 PM Apr 8, 2014
While I would appreciate it if my own kids read and followed Dave Ramsey, we believe that cash flow matters as well. Being debt free is awesome and we're still working toward it, but our fixed cash flow covers our mortgage and then some. So while we did anguish about taking on an RV payment on a diminishing asset, we looked to cash flow to live our dream. No regrets.
Sherry
Summersquash said
06:55 PM Apr 15, 2014
It is hard. We just sold our home & bought a fifth wheel. It is a couple years old and we already had the truck so it's not like dishing out a 100k. But I do know how you feel. I guess you never know till you try it. Maybe start with an older unit to see how it goes. I really think lightly used is the way to go anyway. If you love it, then trade up to a newer model.
suse1023 said
05:05 PM Apr 16, 2014
we sold our farm last year and looked for five months for our new home. we already had a creampuff one ton dually and I had plenty of experience hauling a gooseneck horse trailer, so it seemed easiest to start with a fifth wheel. we learned a TON from climbing in dozens of rigs, talking the ears off of every sales person we encountered, and of course obsessive internet research.
we knew the moment we saw it that this barely used 01 carriage cameo was 'the one'.
it needed a lot of minor and a few major updates and repairs to make it roadworthy, which bumped the price quite a bit.
but I feel we lucked out and we could not be happier in our new home.
that said, I need some new cabinets along the back wall of the big slide and someday will replace the window treatments, lol. I am a serial remodeler even in here.
mpierce said
10:10 AM Apr 17, 2014
Go the older, high end MH route. You can get a good, well taken care of early to mid 1990's Blue Bird Wanderlodge in the $40-60k range. Set aside another $10k, and you have a LOT of motorhome for 60-70k!
These were $400k or more new. Well built, top of the line.
Check out Hanskas "Roundtuit".
Mark V said
09:41 AM Apr 20, 2014
There is another way to look at this depending on where you presently live and the value of your home. I rent, so I'll use a friend that I work with as an example. He has a nice home in a Chicago area suburb. It isn't a mansion, buy it's not a shack either. He currently pays almost $1,000 a month in property taxes alone, to say nothing of his heat, electric, water bill, insurance premiums, and maintenance.
Now, when you talk about depreciation on a motor home in comparison to a sticks and bricks; if his property did nothing but appreciate in conjunction with the cost of living and inflation , he'll still be out close to $150,000 over the course of ten years just in property taxes and utilities alone, while still having to buy and maintain two vehicles for himself and his wife, which are also depreciating assets.
So even if he were to sell his home for a small profit ten years from now, he really isn't coming out that much ahead, if we're talking net dollars and cents.
Barbaraok said
10:20 AM Apr 20, 2014
I think people would be really surprised if they subtracted the cost of maintaining their house from the 'profit' they think they made. because houses are expensive. Roofs have to be replaced, new water heaters, furnaces, landscaping, all sorts of plumbing and electrical problems …. sounds like owning an RV. The boiler to the hot water furnace we had in Michigan split on a Friday night in January. Flooded the basement. Our saving grace was our daughter dating the oldest son of a plumber. New boiler in on Saturday because the son asked and volunteered to be the assistant.
Barb
Terry and Jo said
11:15 AM Apr 20, 2014
Mark,
You need to tell your friend to move. When we sold our 2250 square foot home on 3/4 acre in 2011, our property taxes for that year had worked up to $2400 per YEAR. I can't imagine paying $1000 per month. When we bought our house a four years earlier, the property taxes were around $1500 or so.
In your friend's case, I'm not sure that he has an appreciating value or not.
Terry
Mark V said
11:32 AM Apr 20, 2014
Terry and Jo wrote:
Mark,
You need to tell your friend to move.
Terry:
As I stated in another post, things in Illinois are completely out of control, and our entire state is on it's way to becoming one, giant imitation of Detroit. Move? Where?
My sister lives in Arlington Heights in a fairly modest 2,200 sq ft home, with property taxes of over $9,000 a year. Another friend who lives in Glenview, which is a bit more upscale, pays almost $16,000 a year!
This isn't a joke.
Mark V said
12:51 PM Apr 20, 2014
In many areas of the country this has become a serious, life changing problem. I remember reading about a mayor in a New Jersey suburb who had to sell his own house and move out of the suburb because he couldn't afford to pay the property taxes, which were ... wait for it ... over $30,000 per year! He had original purchased the home for roughly $350,000 a decade or so ago, and since it's been re-assessed at over a million he can no longer afford to live there. But here's the kicker; neither can anyone else so he found it almost impossible to sell at anything less than a deeply discounted price.
Sooner or later the buck has to stop, because everyone will want to get off the Merry-Go-Round, and there won't be enough people left who can afford to get on and take their place.
Imagine how much money you have to make in order to pay $30,000 a year in property taxes, AFTER you've already paid your state and federal income tax on those earnings. This is why I told my wife that I refused to buy any property here, even after the housing bubble burst, and prices were somewhat more reasonable. The problem is that the value of your home might go down, but the property taxes don't. I didn't want to find myself trying to unload a house in a strictly buyers market a few years down the road, with no one even able to afford the price of admission anyway.
Barbaraok said
02:29 PM Apr 20, 2014
One of the things that people forget to do is demand that the assessment office show that the house is worth what the assessment says it is. If you can't sell it for a million, it isn't worth a million. We had ours reassessed once in Michigan - the year after we moved in. I went up and asked how they could say it was worth more, since ours was the LAST house that had sold in that neighborhood, nothing else had sold 6 months before we bought and nothing had sold (though several were up for sale) after. New assessment was then based upon our purchase price as that was the only current one for the area.
Barb
BiggarView said
02:32 PM Apr 20, 2014
Barbaraok wrote:
I think people would be really surprised if they subtracted the cost of maintaining their house from the 'profit' they think they made. because houses are expensive. Roofs have to be replaced, new water heaters, furnaces, landscaping, all sorts of plumbing and electrical problems …. sounds like owning an RV....
Barb
Ohhh, sooo right on the mark, Barb. The OP had or is still having some angst about the psycholgical aspect of coughing up money on a depreciating asset. Owning an S&B is an expensive proposition by any standard you care to make and not necessarily better than an RV alternative. RVs require maintenance too, but dollar for dollar.... I'd bet the S&B is going to end up being a larger expense in the long run, There is just so much more to maintain especially when you add in property taxes, HOA fees, realtor fees at closing ad nauseum.. The price depreciation of an RV is the trade off for having the adventures that you seek. Depending on your situation, values attitudes about things financial etc., a house and all that it entails may be the right choice for some. The vast majority on here think it (an RV) IS worth it. The OP has stated that it's not what they have decided (they are buying rather than not buying an RV) but are still suffering from the inevitable confusion that results in your mind when you decide to change course in your life on any level. That momentary hestitation, that second guessing, that listening to nay sayers, that scared little child in your psyche.... they're all the same. Sooner or later you'll be saying the same thing many on here have reported on these threads..... "why didn't I do this sooner?" I want to be sitting in on the conversation at a campfire say about 6 or 7 years from now when I hear the OP's uttering those words... we'll all have a great laugh together.
-- Edited by biggaRView on Sunday 20th of April 2014 03:06:29 PM
-- Edited by biggaRView on Tuesday 22nd of April 2014 05:37:01 AM
BJBoyer22 said
02:57 PM Apr 20, 2014
Terry,
I agree with you that $1000 per month in property taxes is nuts, that government should be impeached. Thankfully we live in the Socialist Republic of New York (on a lake) and our taxes are only $500 per week. Plus maintenance, landscaping, utilities, etc., etc., etc. Am I looking forward to full time RVing? Duh??
BB
tigercx1 said
04:03 PM Apr 20, 2014
Mark V wrote:
There is another way to look at this depending on where you presently live and the value of your home. I rent, so I'll use a friend that I work with as an example. He has a nice home in a Chicago area suburb. It isn't a mansion, buy it's not a shack either. He currently pays almost $1,000 a month in property taxes alone, to say nothing of his heat, electric, water bill, insurance premiums, and maintenance.
Now, when you talk about depreciation on a motor home in comparison to a sticks and bricks; if his property did nothing but appreciate in conjunction with the cost of living and inflation , he'll still be out close to $150,000 over the course of ten years just in property taxes and utilities alone, while still having to buy and maintain two vehicles for himself and his wife, which are also depreciating assets.
So even if he were to sell his home for a small profit ten years from now, he really isn't coming out that much ahead, if we're talking net dollars and cents.
Yikes I had no idea property taxes were that high in some areas of the country.
Mark
-- Edited by tigercx1 on Sunday 20th of April 2014 04:06:53 PM
Terry and Jo said
04:42 PM Apr 20, 2014
BJBoyer22 wrote:
Terry,
I agree with you that $1000 per month in property taxes is nuts, that government should be impeached. Thankfully we live in the Socialist Republic of New York (on a lake) and our taxes are only $500 per week. Plus maintenance, landscaping, utilities, etc., etc., etc. Am I looking forward to full time RVing? Duh??
BB
tigercx1 wrote:
Mark V wrote:
There is another way to look at this depending on where you presently live and the value of your home. I rent, so I'll use a friend that I work with as an example. He has a nice home in a Chicago area suburb. It isn't a mansion, buy it's not a shack either. He currently pays almost $1,000 a month in property taxes alone, to say nothing of his heat, electric, water bill, insurance premiums, and maintenance.
Now, when you talk about depreciation on a motor home in comparison to a sticks and bricks; if his property did nothing but appreciate in conjunction with the cost of living and inflation , he'll still be out close to $150,000 over the course of ten years just in property taxes and utilities alone, while still having to buy and maintain two vehicles for himself and his wife, which are also depreciating assets.
So even if he were to sell his home for a small profit ten years from now, he really isn't coming out that much ahead, if we're talking net dollars and cents.
Yikes I had no idea property taxes were that high in some areas of the country.
Mark
-- Edited by tigercx1 on Sunday 20th of April 2014 04:06:53 PM
Man, after getting this education on taxes in other states, I am so glad that both sets of my grandparents decided to homestead in the Oklahoma Panhandle. That put me in a much better state than what some others live in. I have a brother-in-law in Colorado that we will soon be moving near, and I can't wait to tell him about what I've learned here in the last couple of days. He used to always complain about his property taxes and they weren't anything like $1000 to $2000 per month.
Terry
Barbaraok said
05:27 PM Apr 20, 2014
For something like the Trump Tower, if the taxes bother you you can't afford the unit.
Narb
BiggarView said
05:36 PM Apr 20, 2014
Mark V wrote:
....That's a half a million bucks to the government, every stinking year, for the "privilege" of living in your own home, that YOU paid for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let's get a little perspective here.... 99.99% of people would never live there for obvious reasons and it ain't the taxes. Anyone who can afford to drop that kind of coin doesn't think twice about it either. FWIW We now return you to our regular programming...
-- Edited by biggaRView on Sunday 20th of April 2014 09:36:11 PM
Hello
Well we have decided that it is best for us to go the motorhome route. We want a diesel pusher, but are having a really hard time plucking down 150,000+ on USED model let alone what it would cost for a new one. I mean if this was a stick and brick house on property that was going to appreciate then I would be all for it. We plan on full timing for several years and yes this will be our home, but it is a depreciating product. We may go for an even older one to stay under 100,000 because we just cannot wrap our minds around spending that much for a motorhome. Even if it is still 'worth' something in the end, we want to have plenty for when we do need to come off the road and buy a condo or such.
Just my musings as I look for something I can justify spending so much money on.
Wendy
This really brings up the whole exit strategy conversation. Are you prepared to walk away from this life with the equity from your home spent and no assets to show for it. It's a darn good question and a very tough one...for us the answer was yes and that was largely based on watching our best friend illness lost his home and every penny of his savings from cancer and then die. Prior to that I always made the conservative, safe, and fiscally responsible choices....I am from the Midwest after all :) But watching that...well there are no words...so again for us, we decided to trade in the financial security for the memories...it really boils down to that.
This is a decision that all of us had to make along the way. Bottom line... they are all depreciating assets... so you try to figure out a strategy that minimizes it's impact (perhaps buying a quality used product), while balancing the livability you desire for your life style. One suggestion (which we used) is to figure out the lost depreciation of both options over the length of time you plan to use them, then divide by the number of years to give you a yearly "cost". For us, it figured out to be a higher yearly "cost" for the motorhome option (although not as much as we thought), but we really like the motorhome life style and figured it was worth the difference. Like I said, it's a personal choice.
Whatever you choose, the real objective is to get out there and enjoy!
Good luck,
Ron
OK, I'm just curious, but what is the "motorhome life style".....I think I'm missing something???
Yep ... it's a tough thought to swallow, especially if you're looking at it from the perspective that this is an investment, as can be an S&B. What you're really doing is buying the "life-style," with all the life-style affords: flexibility; mobility; new backyard & neighbors weekly or monthly; rallies; friends around the country, volunteering, etc. I think what you have to remember is the Title of these products: "Recreational Vehicle". While some full-time, more use them for entertainment purposes, although many on this forum do indeed full-time.
Although we have used RVs for recreational purposes in the past, we do plan to purchase a DP to full-time next year in for 3-5 years, or longer. We know our used DP will depreciate considerably, but we're not planning on using this money to fully fund our exit plan. Everyone has their own exit plan and some will use their RV to fund some of their exit plan. For us, our exit plan in the future has us keeping the RV ... of course, if health considerations eliminate travel for us, one of the mentioned attributes above, flexibility, will allow us to sell the RV without regrets.
The DW & I have taken some fantastic and fairly expensive vacations. We never got any of our money back, but we will always cherish those moments together
-- Edited by Jake62 on Monday 31st of March 2014 06:38:54 PM
I think the reference is about the fundamental differences between a Fifth and a Motorhome......the biggest difference for us being the access to our home as we drive down the road. Also the access to our pets and the freedoms they enjoy while rolling. One more typical difference is the abilty to drive a small or mid sized vehicle for day tripping....I think that may be the "MOTORHOME Lifestyle" they are referring to....just a guess....LOL
If we had children I would too, but I guess we are spending our part of our nieces and nephews College funds!
We chose the motorhome route because we want to be able to get up and move about as the hubby has a bad back that starts aching if he sits in a car for extended periods of time. Also the fact that we can pull our Honda CRV to go roam and see the sites without having to wedge a dually into somewhere. I have a dually now for hauling a horse trailer and I really hate having to use it now for groceries and errands.
We will spend it in when the time comes and we find the one we want. It will probably be at least 8 years old though.
Wendy
Jack,
I guess I'm just talking about the differences that everyone talks about when describing their choice of motorhome vs. fifth wheel vs. trailer, etc. This seems to be the most talked about topic on just about every forum. Maybe "life style" isn't the right word, but the point is that all of us chose our RV mode of operation for one reason or another.
Am I missing your point?
Ron
-- Edited by RonaldNC on Monday 31st of March 2014 07:39:56 PM
Buy the condo and then do ?
Remember, the idea is to spend years enjoying all of the different areas before you are no longer able to, to build memories. If you are fixated on "investment" then this is not the lifestyle for you. You can't put a price tag on the memories you will be building.
We do not owe our families an inheritance. I would have gladly given up the money from Dave's dad in return for him having lived long enough to see his grand daughter grow up.
Barb
The cost of ownership of S&B is more than the just the purchase price. Firstly, the last 5 or six years have shown that S&B appreciation is not guaranteed. Second, think of all the things that add to that cost that do not add anything to the value... closing costs on the sale, realtor fees, annual property taxes, association fees, most improvements do not recoup their expense(add to the owners lifestyle or personal satisfaction but not value despite what the TV reality real estate shows say), repairs and upkeep (especially if you buy an existing S&B that's at least ten years old), landscaping and gardening expenses, utility bills that you might not have in an RV. Redecorating a house to suit you taste will more than likely cost way more than in an RV but not really add much, if anything, to the value to any future owner. I could go on, but you get the idea. Most people know about these things but tend to overlook them when they figure the true cost of home ownership.
Now, do the same for an RV.(and yeah they will likely depreciate, but that is part of the calculation)
Add up those costs plus the purchase price over the same time frame as an RV you might own and maintain. S&B ownership starts to seem a lot more expensive in that light. The difference in the S&B vs RV is the value you assign to the "lifestyle" of the RV. Is it worth it? That's up to you. Most people on here think it is.
Dave Ramsey's mantra is "live like nobody else so that later you can live like nobody else". I think that would include this "lifestyle" if your realistic vision about what it takes to do this is in sync with what you have to do this. If you have adhered to his tenets prior to going on the road, then you should have all the tools needed to financial navigate the "lifestyle" without fear of the impact of plunking down 150K on an RV.
FWIW
Also, Barb is absolutely right too. Each of us has to decide what those things/memories are worth. Some are priceless.
-- Edited by biggaRView on Tuesday 1st of April 2014 05:09:56 AM
I would love to talk to her now and see if she regretted it 7 years later but knowing her I doubt she does. She and her kids will have hat experience forever. This lifestyle is my version of that..but still in comparison waaaay more responsible lol
While its true that some stick and brick homes have not appreciated over the last few years, the fact is that those homes can and in most markets do appreciate over time.
A motor home or fifth wheel will depreciate in every conceivable market.
We are thinking hard about fifth wheels because unlike motorhomes, you don't have the additional consideration of declining motor lifespan. If we keep it maintained and repaired, it will retain some diminished value when we transition out of the lifestyle.
The question you must ask is whether the freedom to travel is worth the cost of the declining asset. Assuming that we full time for 3 to 7 years after we retire at 59.5, the combination of truck and fifth wheel is pricey for us but not outrageous. The longer we enjoy and can stay on the road, the easier the cost is to absorb. Anyway just my thoughts as we plan for a target date 3 years and 2 months in the future.
Barb
I had always thought that I would like to get a nice big bus type motorhome some day. Mostly because I would watch a bus MH pull in at the same time we pulled our 5th wheel into a spot. I would still be setting up an hour or so after the bus owner was done and already cooking steaks on the BBQ. It was basically push several buttons and hook up a couple cords and hoses and they would be ready to camp. I on the other hand had to drive up on blocks, crank, push buttons, unhitch, push more buttons, crank some more, hook up cords and hoses. Put out the sat dish and tripod find a signal. Deploy manual awnings....etc. Then I could start cooking steaks.
However, now the 5th wheels can be equipped with all of the automated stuff the MHs have had. So setting up camp is push a few buttons... no more cranking.
Our 5th wheel is 20 years old this year and we are on our third truck. Engine problems and transmission problems plus other stuff related to the strain of towing (burnt wires, blown seals, warped rotors) sidelined the first two trucks.
When we replace the 5th wheel it will be with another larger 5th wheel. When I grow up I want to be just like Jack and Danielle Mayer...
-- Edited by The Bear II on Tuesday 1st of April 2014 01:27:42 PM
PS you will wear out the vehicle, before you wear out a diesel engine. There are semi's on the road with a million miles on one engine. All the other stuff may go, but a good diesel engine should run a long time.
Wendy
at 5 years the depreciation slows and there are alot of really good deals from the jones trying to keep up and your savings are enough for 2 complete rebuilds!
some need a new coach when it gets dirty.....others are happy to wash & wax themselves
PS you will wear out the vehicle, before you wear out a diesel engine. There are semi's on the road with a million miles on one engine. All the other stuff may go, but a good diesel engine should run a long time.
Although it is a semi truck, A good friend of mine is closing in on 3 million miles on his truck... with NO major rebuild, and very little break downs. The way you maintain your vehicle...... determines how long it will last.
My 06 GMC 3500 dmax with Allison. has 132,000 I'm the 3rd owner you can see how the past 2 owners took care of it... The 1st thing I look at when buying a used vehicle is the under carriage, it tells the story.
Ron
I should have answered you directly: "Yes." But ... I would have a harder time buying a Condo as a second home and still wanting to travel around the country. I would then feel guilty that I'm not using the Condo enough. I'll take the RV option over the 2nd home option any day of the week. That's why I'll keep the RV, even when we do buy an S&B again in the future.
ps - I also follow Dave and his general advice is to stay debt free, which you can certainly do regardless if you purchase an appreciating asset vs. a depreciating asset.
Jo and I have a truck and fifth wheel instead of a motorhome, although we did look at those as well. Our dream, and now reality, was to sell the home and land and buy an RV so we could travel after retirement. With that in mind, we decided to get the best that we thought we could afford, with the intent that even if we quit traveling, we could still live in it after stopping the travel. While we still aren't traveling a lot, and still may not for anywhere from 1 to 3 years, the last three years of living in ours has shown us that we could easily live in it for an extended period of time.
When we do start to travel, it won't be to move on every week or so. We will stay in areas for anywhere from 1 to 6 months (or possibly longer) while we check out all the attractions that we would want to see before moving on to another area.
In our case, we both dealt with the headache of disposing of our parent's property after they passed on. We decided, and our two sons agree, that we didn't want to have to make them do the same thing that we had to do. Stuff is stuff, whether it is real or personal property. If it ever gets to where we can't live in the fifth wheel, we would rather rent some place, especially considering our ages.
This doesn't answer all of your questions, but I can say that we like the freedom. Besides, what if one got tired of living in the same place. I'd bet I could always hire someone to move us somewhere if we got tired of where we were. That is, provided that we were unable to do the moving ourselves.
Good luck, and embrace the freedom.
Terry
Yes Wendy! We are having the same thoughts and are in much the same situation you are. I too am a Dave Ramsey fan and the geek who spreadsheets everything. Even Dave tells you there are times it is better to pay rent. We moved a lot during my 24 years in the military and it was very stressful to buy a house knowing we were only going to be there three years. Since we are expecting a 3 year full time RV experience, I calculated the expected monthly campground fees and other expenses including $10K per year depreciation. The monthly cost is comparable to renting a 2000sq ft home (yeah, too low for Washington DC and too high for lower Alabama, but a good average). Sure, we could move to where we think we want to finally settle down, invest in a home and work for another 10 years to pay it all off then buy the MH and begin traveling. That would ease my appreciation concerns a bit, but would not give us freedom from a SB home. Age is also a factor. I see many MH's for sale because one or both owners ran into health issues.
Others here have commented on the intangible return on investment this lifestyle provides. We have owned several travel trailers over the years and for the amount of times we used them in a given year, they were very poor monetary investments. However, I can't put a value on washing our toddlers in an action packer outside the pop-up by the fire and a million other experiences.
Good luck hunting for the right MH. See ya at the diesel pump!
1. Buy quality. Set the price you are willing to pay, factor in about $10,000 for repairs and upgrades that you want/need, and then buy the highest quality coach you can find for that.
2. A five-year-old coach will cost you a LOT less than a brand-new one. A ten-year-old one will cost less up front, but may cost a bit more in upkeep simply because some of the appliances are nearing the end of their useful life.
3. Yes, an RV is a depreciating asset. The value comes in the enjoyment of it. One person's signature includes the line "Small house, huge yard." There is also the value of sleeping in your own bed each night.
4. You will know the right coach when you find it. Take your time in hunting, and spend lots of time discussing what you want and need. Join the owners' forums for the brands you are considering. For us, a brand that requires you to own their brand in order to post on the forum was an automatic drop from any further consideration. Our top three brands all welcomed us as forum members before we bought anything. Now that we own one of those three brands I'm still welcome on the other two forums, although I don't post much there.
I like Dave Ramsey too. One of his teachings is not to buy anything on credit you can't afford. Toward that end, we plan to reduce our living cost this summer in an effort to be able to save the money for our MH and buy it outright so that we can enjoy living in it without the burden of a monthly payment. This summer, we begin our five year plan to save the money for our MH and I'm very excited!!
Wendy,
You've hit on the single most troubling aspect of RVing for me.
DW and I had decided to sell our lake properties as the upkeep and maintenance has gotten too much for me. While I'm only 57, and generally in great health, I'm paying the price of playing college football in the 70's; I just had my 13th orthopedic surgery (my 4th shoulder surgery) and I'm looking at knee replacements in the next few years.
I assumed that after we sold we'd move into an apartment in the city or at least a small low maintenance home in the 'burbs. So when DW told me she wanted to pursue a lifelong dream and see the USA in an RV I was pretty taken back. We had a pop-up 25 years ago and have missed camping ever since we sold that little trailer. Well, we've been researching and looking for a few months and just like you I'm having a hard time rationalizing the exchange of capital invested in an appreciating asset and spending it on a depreciating asset.
Here's my plan. I don't know if this works for you or anyone else. First I'm going to buy a 3-5 year old DP so someone else takes the biggest depreciation hit; as noted here there are dozens of quality rigs for sale in that age bracket. Over the years we've come to own a few rental properties; we hired a property management firm to operate them, they charge a reasonable 10% of collected rents (plus any repairs) and they take care of everything (seriously everything). So instead of plunking down 6 figures on a MH I'm going to buy a couple more nice duplex rentals, put down the minimum toward the used MH and have the new rents pay the note on the bus. When we're done RVing in a few years we can sell the rig and the rentals if (we choose to) and settle back down. In the mean time the rentals are appreciating in value and the rents are increasing each year; the MH is still depreciating but at least I have appreciating assets paying for it. All in all it seems the best financial plan I've been able to come up with to support our RV lifestyle.
Regards, Brad
We had rental property and did not like the experience, so that is not a route we will take, but for you guys it sounds like a great plan. We have some other options we are looking at for long term income generation. We will see if those work, if not we will do something else. I cannot wait right now though to get on the road.
Wendy
When I was finally able to sell my house in 2008 (after a year of full timing), I took a substantial loss on it due to the economy. So much for an appreciating 'asset'.
We're now on our third RV.
The first bought brand new, sold for about what we paid for it 1.5 years later.
The second we purchased brand new, and when it sold 3 years later after being full timed in, it sold for 50% more than we paid for it new.
Go figure... those were supposed to be depreciating assets.
When we started shopping for our 3rd RV and knew we wanted a motorhome of some sort, we just couldn't see spending close to 6 figures for what is on the market. So we went another direction - bus conversion. Bought our live-able bus for $8k, and have invested in our happiness of making it truly ours from top to bottom. Couldn't be happier with our decision now nearly 3 years later.
And like our other RV purchases, we purchased what best supported the lifestyle we wanted. We'll see how it rolls when its time to move on to something else.
- Cherie
We recently went through what I think you are going through. We are very frugal, so it was a tough concept at the beginning. What I really struggled with was I liked a lot of the features/floorplan of the newer coaches, but knew we weren't going to pay the price of the coaches we liked that werea a couple of years old. We searched up and down, far and wide, and finally found a coach--about five years old--that checked the majority of the boxes. Sure, we compromised on a couple of things, but nothing major. We originally had a budget...then found ourself pushing up 5K, then 10K....and finally reality set in and we went back to our original budget. Ultimately, we exceeded our budget by 3K. We can live with that.
When I think about what the original owners paid for the coach, it puts our purchase into perspective and in the end, think we will have many many happy years in the coach. Can't put a price on that.
Yes, we've done some upgrades to our coach. The old Dometic refrigerator died, so we have a new residential unit now. The original battery chargers were killing the batteries, so I replaced them with new ones (and two young guys at O'Reilly's put in the two new 8D batteries). The old television sets are gone, and a new flat screen one is now here. Since the new refrigerator takes up less space than the old one, we'll have the Foretravel remodel shop build some new cabinets around it. Same for the spaces where the old television sets were. We're looking at what sort of window treatments are available because we're not pleased with the old, 90's curtains. And so it goes.
My point is that a high quality coach will have a much longer useful life than an entry-level one, and owners will do upgrades as their desires and budgets allow.
Sherry
we knew the moment we saw it that this barely used 01 carriage cameo was 'the one'.
it needed a lot of minor and a few major updates and repairs to make it roadworthy, which bumped the price quite a bit.
but I feel we lucked out and we could not be happier in our new home.
that said, I need some new cabinets along the back wall of the big slide and someday will replace the window treatments, lol. I am a serial remodeler even in here.
These were $400k or more new. Well built, top of the line.
Check out Hanskas "Roundtuit".
There is another way to look at this depending on where you presently live and the value of your home. I rent, so I'll use a friend that I work with as an example. He has a nice home in a Chicago area suburb. It isn't a mansion, buy it's not a shack either. He currently pays almost $1,000 a month in property taxes alone, to say nothing of his heat, electric, water bill, insurance premiums, and maintenance.
Now, when you talk about depreciation on a motor home in comparison to a sticks and bricks; if his property did nothing but appreciate in conjunction with the cost of living and inflation , he'll still be out close to $150,000 over the course of ten years just in property taxes and utilities alone, while still having to buy and maintain two vehicles for himself and his wife, which are also depreciating assets.
So even if he were to sell his home for a small profit ten years from now, he really isn't coming out that much ahead, if we're talking net dollars and cents.
Barb
Mark,
You need to tell your friend to move. When we sold our 2250 square foot home on 3/4 acre in 2011, our property taxes for that year had worked up to $2400 per YEAR. I can't imagine paying $1000 per month. When we bought our house a four years earlier, the property taxes were around $1500 or so.
In your friend's case, I'm not sure that he has an appreciating value or not.
Terry
Terry:
As I stated in another post, things in Illinois are completely out of control, and our entire state is on it's way to becoming one, giant imitation of Detroit. Move? Where?
My sister lives in Arlington Heights in a fairly modest 2,200 sq ft home, with property taxes of over $9,000 a year. Another friend who lives in Glenview, which is a bit more upscale, pays almost $16,000 a year!
This isn't a joke.
In many areas of the country this has become a serious, life changing problem. I remember reading about a mayor in a New Jersey suburb who had to sell his own house and move out of the suburb because he couldn't afford to pay the property taxes, which were ... wait for it ... over $30,000 per year! He had original purchased the home for roughly $350,000 a decade or so ago, and since it's been re-assessed at over a million he can no longer afford to live there. But here's the kicker; neither can anyone else so he found it almost impossible to sell at anything less than a deeply discounted price.
Sooner or later the buck has to stop, because everyone will want to get off the Merry-Go-Round, and there won't be enough people left who can afford to get on and take their place.
Imagine how much money you have to make in order to pay $30,000 a year in property taxes, AFTER you've already paid your state and federal income tax on those earnings. This is why I told my wife that I refused to buy any property here, even after the housing bubble burst, and prices were somewhat more reasonable. The problem is that the value of your home might go down, but the property taxes don't. I didn't want to find myself trying to unload a house in a strictly buyers market a few years down the road, with no one even able to afford the price of admission anyway.
Barb
Ohhh, sooo right on the mark, Barb. The OP had or is still having some angst about the psycholgical aspect of coughing up money on a depreciating asset. Owning an S&B is an expensive proposition by any standard you care to make and not necessarily better than an RV alternative. RVs require maintenance too, but dollar for dollar.... I'd bet the S&B is going to end up being a larger expense in the long run, There is just so much more to maintain especially when you add in property taxes, HOA fees, realtor fees at closing ad nauseum.. The price depreciation of an RV is the trade off for having the adventures that you seek. Depending on your situation, values attitudes about things financial etc., a house and all that it entails may be the right choice for some. The vast majority on here think it (an RV) IS worth it. The OP has stated that it's not what they have decided (they are buying rather than not buying an RV) but are still suffering from the inevitable confusion that results in your mind when you decide to change course in your life on any level. That momentary hestitation, that second guessing, that listening to nay sayers, that scared little child in your psyche.... they're all the same. Sooner or later you'll be saying the same thing many on here have reported on these threads..... "why didn't I do this sooner?" I want to be sitting in on the conversation at a campfire say about 6 or 7 years from now when I hear the OP's uttering those words... we'll all have a great laugh together.
-- Edited by biggaRView on Sunday 20th of April 2014 03:06:29 PM
-- Edited by biggaRView on Tuesday 22nd of April 2014 05:37:01 AM
Terry,
I agree with you that $1000 per month in property taxes is nuts, that government should be impeached. Thankfully we live in the Socialist Republic of New York (on a lake) and our taxes are only $500 per week. Plus maintenance, landscaping, utilities, etc., etc., etc. Am I looking forward to full time RVing? Duh??
BB
Yikes I had no idea property taxes were that high in some areas of the country.
Mark
-- Edited by tigercx1 on Sunday 20th of April 2014 04:06:53 PM
Man, after getting this education on taxes in other states, I am so glad that both sets of my grandparents decided to homestead in the Oklahoma Panhandle. That put me in a much better state than what some others live in. I have a brother-in-law in Colorado that we will soon be moving near, and I can't wait to tell him about what I've learned here in the last couple of days. He used to always complain about his property taxes and they weren't anything like $1000 to $2000 per month.
Terry
Narb
Let's get a little perspective here.... 99.99% of people would never live there for obvious reasons and it ain't the taxes. Anyone who can afford to drop that kind of coin doesn't think twice about it either. FWIW
We now return you to our regular programming...
-- Edited by biggaRView on Sunday 20th of April 2014 09:36:11 PM